No more PCGS coins in the NGC Registry
BryceM
Posts: 11,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
i just opened an e-mail from the folks at the other top TPG. They are making a change to their registry to no longer allow coins in other holders. Coins already there will not be removed, but no more may be added after Jan 1. They cite changing standards.
I'm not sure who this benefits. Perhaps those who collect holders. It probably adds nothing to those who collect coins and it seems to weaken the appeal of registries in general.
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Got the same email. Makes sense to me. All of my set's over there only have their coins in them. I am surprised it took them this long to do it.
It's a PITA to me. I don't significantly use the PCGS Registry specifically because they don't accept NGC coins. All of my coins are on the NGC Registry, and of those roughly 2/3 are in PCGS slabs. I have a long way to go on my Type Set, and I strongly suspect I'll be buying coins in both major TPG's slabs.
As the saying goes, I buy the coin and not the holder, and NGC slabs have plenty of well graded coins (of which I feel ZERO need to reslab them in PCGS plastic, although I may send in the more valuable ones for CAC before selling them).
ARGGGHHHHH!!!
U.S. Type Set
It's fine with me as I don't keep coins in any holders other than PCGS anyway.
Seem like an opportunity for someone to open a new registry for coins in any slab. or an electronic list similar to the pocket checklist books with some type of scoring system.
In my experience NGC and PCGS (I don't care much for any others) are equal in their grading. Although World Coins seem to be heavily favored in NGC holders, such action prevents having more registry set participation in a push to promote their own service. I'm not sure I agree with the statement that population reports and historical auction records would prove that NGC grading standards are more accurate.
So far, NGC will still allow PCGS graded coins in their Custom Sets functionality. So, outside of the "pissing-match" ego-boosting nonsense of the competitive part of the registry sets, anyone can still display and organize their collections using that functionality.
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My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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If NGC wants to promote its grading service, maybe PCGS would like to offer a mass crossover option for free for a limited time. It would be interesting to see how many take advantage of it, and PCGS could potentially win over lots of enthusiasts from the competition.
I agree that the ego-boosting nonsense part of the registry is ridiculous, but there is no denying that the competition has had a profound PROFOUND impact on the market, perceived scarcity, and top pop prices.
Wow....I just read the full statement. Talk about an upsidedown statement! Does he honestly think ngc grades are more accurate than PCGS!! What a laugh. He needs to look at auction results. I have been looking at coins for over 50 years and while PCGS and ngc are neither one perfect. PCGS is much more accurate overall.
This is a joke!
Sounds like a great opportunity for PCGS to offer a cross-over special.
8 Reales Madness Collection
"Change of standards"? Perhaps thiers ats will increase? Not a problem. Sounds like someone ats got ahold of some sour grapes.
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It makes sense to me. In my opinion, there are largely two ways of viewing the NGC registry policy of allowing PCGS coins to be registered. First, one might look at it as if NGC is more collector-responsive or collector-friendly in that they saw a need for folks who have coins in both major TPG holders and responded to the need. Second, it can make NGC look desperate or needy for folks to use their registry and that they require a carrot-on-a-stick strategy to get people with PCGS coins to look at the NGC site. Therefore, this second point makes the NGC registry and NGC brand appear weaker.
I would imagine that the NGC registry is on firm enough footing at this time that they believe this policy with strengthen the brand more than alienate long-term clients.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Saw the email as well. Doesn't affect me but I know plenty of others that it will affect.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
This is called projection.
Take the most damaging accusation that is made about you (Overgrading at NGC) and project it on your competition. While it might be obviously wrong, it insulates you from the accusation. Makes you look like the hero and the competition the villain.
I figure it's their system and they can do as they please. But it strikes me that their reasons for excluding PCGS coins starting in January is nonsensical. The suggestion is that PCGS grading is looser and this is backed up by pop reports and auction prices. Say what?
Mr. Salzberg writes:
"I can also say that other grading services appear to have changed their grading standards for a variety of reasons. Many of you reading this will know exactly what I am talking about but for those who do not, I encourage you to ask some numismatic professionals and to research historical population reports and auction prices realized for different grading services."
Maybe I'm reading this the wrong way.
Personally, it matters little to me. I do have NGC registries filled with 99% PCGS coins and have participated this way because I like to see how things match-up with other sets that contain a mix of NGC coins. As of January I will stop adding improvements to the NGC registries and may just delete my sets entirely.
I suppose their hope is that collectors will cross PCGS coins and favor NGC-graded coins when making buying decisions. I am very skeptical.
Lance.
...that same behavior just won the White House for Trump.
If they don't want to allow PCGS coins in the registry, that is fine. Kinda disappointed because I would like a place from either service where I could show off my coins. Getting fake internet points for them or not doesn't matter to me.
Final conclusion: The world will keep on spinning.
I think I have one of those white holders and it was a gift horse.
The create a Custom Set on the NGC registry, and display both your PCGS and NGC coins. Problem solved. That's what I've been doing for years. IMO, the Collection Manager software on the NGC side is still far superior to the wonky backwards software offered by PCGS. Just my opinions. YMMV.
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My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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I have great coins in both PCGS and NGC holders. I can grade my series BETTER than the graders at either service. Like the man says above, buy the coin not the holder.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
It makes perfect sense to me, as Mr.Salzberg succinctly puts it:
"I can also say that other grading services appear to have changed their grading standards for a variety of reasons. Many of you reading this will know exactly what I am talking about but for those who do not, I encourage you to ask some numismatic professionals and to research historical population reports and auction prices realized for different grading services."
He sooo nailed it!
A Registry is either a place for collectors to showcase their coins, or it is a way to promote your product.
The change by NGC makes sense.
Will that option still be available after the new change? If so, then I'm content. I agree with you on the wonky software.
RE: the statement.
here we drink Koolaid, perhaps ATS at NGC they are drinking Crystal Light, is there anything wrong with that?? each believes the other is off. to the Registry Sets, I think it will be OK, an NGC set should logically only contain NGC holdered coins, else what's the sense.
Its a bit frustrating for me. I participate on the NGC side so I can include slabs from both TPG. Now, I have lost that option. I will have to consider my registry sets more in the future. Doesn't make sense to me to have coins regraded, so I guess I will just have "empty" registry slots.
I hope it will be. I'm trying to get an answer from their Registry staff saying "yes" -- but I haven't had a straight answer from the top yet.
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My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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Collective Coin doesn't maintain a "registry" but it sure is a handy place to store pix of coins.
Maybe we should all join (I already have) and ask the owner of the site, Scubafuel, if that might be in his plans.
He's VERY easy to communicate with.
AND has a great site.
https://collectivecoin.com
I'm disappointed, but not really surprised. I've thought for a while that accepting both PCGS and NGC coins hurts their brand, given that PCGS only accepts their own coins. It gave off the perception that PCGS is better / NGC is inferior. Regardless of the accuracy of that statement, from NGC's perspective that is certainly not an impression they would want to give off.
That said, I personally much more prefer PCGS's registry website than NGC's, even though the flexibility that NGC offered with accepting PCGS and NGC slabs was definitely a big plus.
It's all about marketing. I don't play in this game.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I had the same thought. However, it would be a lot of work, with little in the way of income to support it. I'm guessing both PCGS and NGC are providing the "service" at a loss, with a possible incentive to submit offsetting it to some degree.
If you aren't a submission company, you're just hoping for advertising money....and that wouldn't be much until and unless you became quite popular.
As for the NGC decision, I think they probably spend a lot of time, and therefore money, confirming PCGS additions. Can't really blame them for wanting to avoid that.
And...silly me. I just spent a bunch of money getting my ANACS coins into PCGS holders in order to add them to my NGC Registry.
(I may have just defined basis for NGC's decision right there!!)
If you think the TPGs operate the registries at a loss, I completely disagree. The very existence of the registries has made them untold millions.
I believe NGC is more accurate. Which really means more consistent to their own applied standards. Now that doesn't mean they grade tougher than PCGS across the board because they don't imo. Staying true to your own standard is nearly as important as being the toughest grader on the block. And I support NGC registry only allowing their own coins. Why it wasn't done sooner is beyond me.
Salzburg's statement above is about 8 years too late. Frankly, the major reason CAC came about was because of NGC's grading from 1997-2008. PCGS contributed but more in reply to what NGC was doing. If you want to apply a % it might be anything from 70/30 to 60/40 NGC vs. PCGS (ie NGC looser). The barn door was opened wide long ago. Tossing stones now is like try to bail water out of the Titanic. Of course, this is just my opinion from the tens or hundreds of thousands of coins I eye balled from 1998-2011. I've yet to meet any major dealer who worked on the national show circuit in that time that said anything different. Maybe my techniques and sample points were all wrong. It's just my opinion. In 1988-1989 I'd say the two TPG's were almost on equal footing at 55/45 or less. When NGC first came out in 1987 they were tougher than PCGS...up to a point on gem type coins. By 1988 things were back to even.
Fwiw, 80% of my own personal coins were NGC right up to 2009 as I was comfortable with their standards for toned coins and could more accurately figure out how they would do. Had I been into blast white coins I'd have probably leaned towards PCGS. And during the 1987-1998 period, 98% of all my raw and cracked out coins were sent to NGC, not PCGS because that's where the highest grades tended to come from. You go where the money is. And that money flow dried up in November 2008 - January 2009 when CAC blew the whistle on the whole show.
it's fine with me, as I don't keep any coins in holders at all, and don't participate in any registries.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Dang REBELS is what you are! ** Fie! **
lol, who couldn't see this coming?
I buy lots of nice NGC graded coins. They always end up in PCGS holders. I believe that the vast majority of "nice for the grade" NGC coins end up or will eventually end up in PCGS plastic. Auction prices will tell you all you need to know about the NGC brand.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
It doesn't affect me but I can sympathize with those who are.
Especially anyone in the middle of a set that requires a large number of coins.
I always considered it kind, that they allowed PCGS coins when it isn't reciprocated.
It really doesn't surprise me but the reason stated seems kinda lame.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
That describes me, Sparky! I have two registry sets at NGC, one of which is Morgan Dollars. I still have ~45 left so there are going to be a lot of (apparent) holes in that set, sadly.
Thanks, Brandon. I hope you will post the answer you get ATS, too. I'm a big fan of Custom Sets and I think that the Custom Set awards are much more meaningful than those for the competitive sets.
_ completely disagree with this. To me the PCGS Registry is sooooooooo much easier to use than ATS._
I agree 100%. I just ended up crossing over all of my NGC coins for the very reasons you stated . 39 out of 46 crossed. ( 2 upgraded). No prejudice.
Mark Is a great guy and I have zero issues in his reasoning. I'm not a registry guy so I don't care but I can see why others would.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Buy the coin. Spare the fluff.
Tom, it is exactly the opposite in the series I collect, GSA's. Auction results bare this out also.
Rainbow Stars
How so ? Never mind with some thought I see
Give me the luxuries of life and I will gladly do without the necessities.
Maybe they are trying to get crossovers to NGC.
It never made sense to me that they accepted other graders to begin with. I, personally, am not a registry participant. Are you able to register them in both registries?
Bob
I can't imagine crossing coins from PCGS to ngc, but I guess it happens. I will buy coins raw or in any holder that I like and need, but they will all end up in my holder of choice......PCGS.
I wish PCGS and NGC would come to terms on grading and allow both in their registry sets. Displaying the bests sets out there no matter which grading service. The who is more consistent or a stricter grading service depends on many factors - including series.
I really like the registries and enjoy viewing all of the wonderful sets out there.
Hmm, looks like my NGC registry sets may lose a few spots in the standings now...
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
I know one local dealer who has told me on numerous occasions that he has made considerably more by doing just this. He finds coins in PCGS plastic that he feels are strong for the grade,(including CAC coins) and cracks them out to send to NGC. His upgrade percentage is pretty high, and even if an NGC 65 brings less than a PC 65, and NGC 66 will still usually sell for more than a PC 65.
I have seen a bit of a shift in the small amount of freshly graded type coins from PCGS, where it seems that they are overlooking a bit of the "issues" that used to get them a details grade. To be fair, I have seen similar issues with ATS coins where some I have purchased at online auctions from photos have been very disappointing in hand.
My Ebay Store
I have sent several PCGS graded GSA in to have them graded by NGC
Rainbow Stars