@coinsarefun
We can only hope he is using cull/damaged ones
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I would think so as who would o/s a gem 21 peace
But, yes, prolly polished, damaged etc... 21’s will be neat.
Would also be cool if the under date was barely visible
@coinsarefun said:
PS......I can only hope the mintage stays at 100. It would be nice to own a rarity.
Unless......die pair 2, 3 4 etc.... is down the pipeline
That would have me a bit concerned too. Could there also be bulk handled versions?
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future. And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
While we are debating the subject:
Why do they have to be 1921 host coins?
Couldn't he have used common dates with the same effect? Unless of course you can see the 1921 date of the host coin. I guess that would be neat.
Still undecided on where I stand regarding overstriking key dates. My inner voice is saying bad idea, but my impulse is to buy one anyway.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
@DCW said:
While we are debating the subject:
Why do they have to be 1921 host coins?
Couldn't he have used common dates with the same effect? Unless of course you can see the 1921 date of the host coin. I guess that would be neat.
Still undecided on where I stand regarding overstriking key dates. My inner voice is saying bad idea, but my impulse is to buy one anyway.
As for numbers, there seem to be quite a few 1921s available and the prices aren't overly high for the low grade ones. And it's just a maximum of 100 overstrikes out of an original mintage of over 1 million, so approximately 0.01% of the mintage.
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
It seems like the ones that aren't often available are the earlier products. Anything released in the last few years is often easier to find.
And currently available products being resold is something I've also seen with US Mint products (and other mints). There might still be a group of people that are unaware that Dan sells on his website or people that prefer to only use eBay (vs a standalone website). Otherwise I'm not sure why people would pay more for something still available for less.
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
It seems like the ones that aren't often available are the earlier products. Anything released in the last few years is often easier to find.
The ones I mentioned were struck in the last few years. I've never seen a 1805 Dollar (struck August 2019), MCMVI Winged Liberty Double Eagle (struck August - December 2018), or Caballito (struck August - December 2019) available on the secondary market. Have you seen these anywhere? The Oregon Half (struck March 2012) and CBH (struck June 2012) are older, used to be more available but have dried up.
And currently available products being resold is something I've also seen with US Mint products (and other mints). There might still be a group of people that are unaware that Dan sells on his website or people that prefer to only use eBay (vs a standalone website). Otherwise I'm not sure why people would pay more for something still available for less.
Nothing wrong with eBay as a venue. I'm just saying if they are selling for more during issue time (on any venue), Dan's issue price may be too low. Pricing is an art and these sales may be providing some pricing research for Dan.
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
It seems like the ones that aren't often available are the earlier products. Anything released in the last few years is often easier to find.
I've never seen a 1805 Dollar, MCMVI Winged Liberty Double Eagle, or Caballito available on the secondary market, and I don't consider them that old, say like the Oregon Half and CBH which are older, used to be more available but have dried up.
And currently available products being resold is something I've also seen with US Mint products (and other mints). There might still be a group of people that are unaware that Dan sells on his website or people that prefer to only use eBay (vs a standalone website). Otherwise I'm not sure why people would pay more for something still available for less.
Nothing wrong with eBay as a venue. I'm just saying if they are selling for more during issue time (on any venue), Dan's issue price may be too low. Pricing is an art and the sales may be providing some pricing research for Dan.
I've seen a Caballito and even a gold version. By 1805 Dollar, do you mean the ones overstruck on real Draped Bust Dollars? Otherwise, there are currently 3 on eBay (the one overstruck on more common silver Dollars). The other one only had 33 made and I could see those not showing up since someone had to send in their own coin to be overstruck (which suggests to me they weren't planning to sell any time soon). The gold MCMVI had even less made at 19 and the price is high enough where many might not want to deal with the hassles of eBay if selling it.
As far as something selling for more at issue time, it's just an odd circumstance. It might mean that the issue price was too low but it could also just be a group of people that don't know the item is available elsewhere or don't trust a small website.
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
It seems like the ones that aren't often available are the earlier products. Anything released in the last few years is often easier to find.
I've never seen a 1805 Dollar, MCMVI Winged Liberty Double Eagle, or Caballito available on the secondary market, and I don't consider them that old, say like the Oregon Half and CBH which are older, used to be more available but have dried up.
And currently available products being resold is something I've also seen with US Mint products (and other mints). There might still be a group of people that are unaware that Dan sells on his website or people that prefer to only use eBay (vs a standalone website). Otherwise I'm not sure why people would pay more for something still available for less.
Nothing wrong with eBay as a venue. I'm just saying if they are selling for more during issue time (on any venue), Dan's issue price may be too low. Pricing is an art and the sales may be providing some pricing research for Dan.
I've seen a Caballito and even a gold version. By 1805 Dollar, do you mean the ones overstruck on real Draped Bust Dollars? Otherwise, there are currently 3 on eBay (the one overstruck on more common silver Dollars). The other one only had 33 made and I could see those not showing up since someone had to send in their own coin to be overstruck (which suggests to me they weren't planning to sell any time soon). The gold MCMVI had even less made at 19 and the price is high enough where many might not want to deal with the hassles of eBay if selling it.
As far as something selling for more at issue time, it's just an odd circumstance. It might mean that the issue price was too low but it could also just be a group of people that don't know the item is available elsewhere or don't trust a small website.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "gold version"? Do you mean a gold Caballito? I haven't heard of one but that would be awesome.
For the 1805 Dollars, I'm referring to the ones that don't say "STRUCK ON A USA SILVER DOLLAR" as I don't consider those to be true fantasy coins. Regardless of the reasons, there are examples of recent issues that aren't available on the secondary market.
As far as something selling for more at issue time, it's just an odd circumstance. It might mean that the issue price was too low but it could also just be a group of people that don't know the item is available elsewhere or don't trust a small website.
It could mean a variety of things, but I would take it to be market research indicating the price is too low. I think the realized prices are providing market research to Dan.
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
It seems like the ones that aren't often available are the earlier products. Anything released in the last few years is often easier to find.
The ones I mentioned were struck in the last few years. I've never seen a 1805 Dollar (struck August 2019), MCMVI Winged Liberty Double Eagle (struck August - December 2018), or Caballito (struck August - December 2019) available on the secondary market. Have you seen these anywhere? The Oregon Half (struck March 2012) and CBH (struck June 2012) are older, used to be more available but have dried up.
And currently available products being resold is something I've also seen with US Mint products (and other mints). There might still be a group of people that are unaware that Dan sells on his website or people that prefer to only use eBay (vs a standalone website). Otherwise I'm not sure why people would pay more for something still available for less.
Nothing wrong with eBay as a venue. I'm just saying if they are selling for more during issue time (on any venue), Dan's issue price may be too low. Pricing is an art and these sales may be providing some pricing research for Dan.
I agree,,,,,, pricing is an art,,,,,,,,but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There comes a point where you price yourself out of the market. If Dan's pieces didn't provide the potential for a resell profit as they do allot of people would not be as excited (myself included) to purchase them in the first place.
Sure, he could raise his prices and sell some but I suspect that he does better selling at the current prices and selling more than he would if he raised his prices and sold less. Better to sell 100 pcs at $150 ea than to sell 50 pcs at $200 ea. Without the resell profit potential I feel the market demand overall for the product would just keep shrinking,,,,, and soon the GOLDEN or SILVER goose dies,,,,,
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
It seems like the ones that aren't often available are the earlier products. Anything released in the last few years is often easier to find.
I've never seen a 1805 Dollar, MCMVI Winged Liberty Double Eagle, or Caballito available on the secondary market, and I don't consider them that old, say like the Oregon Half and CBH which are older, used to be more available but have dried up.
And currently available products being resold is something I've also seen with US Mint products (and other mints). There might still be a group of people that are unaware that Dan sells on his website or people that prefer to only use eBay (vs a standalone website). Otherwise I'm not sure why people would pay more for something still available for less.
Nothing wrong with eBay as a venue. I'm just saying if they are selling for more during issue time (on any venue), Dan's issue price may be too low. Pricing is an art and the sales may be providing some pricing research for Dan.
I've seen a Caballito and even a gold version. By 1805 Dollar, do you mean the ones overstruck on real Draped Bust Dollars? Otherwise, there are currently 3 on eBay (the one overstruck on more common silver Dollars). The other one only had 33 made and I could see those not showing up since someone had to send in their own coin to be overstruck (which suggests to me they weren't planning to sell any time soon). The gold MCMVI had even less made at 19 and the price is high enough where many might not want to deal with the hassles of eBay if selling it.
As far as something selling for more at issue time, it's just an odd circumstance. It might mean that the issue price was too low but it could also just be a group of people that don't know the item is available elsewhere or don't trust a small website.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "gold version"? Do you mean a gold Caballito? I haven't heard of one but that would be awesome.
For the 1805 Dollars, I'm referring to the ones that don't say "STRUCK ON A USA SILVER DOLLAR" as I don't consider those to be true fantasy coins. Regardless of the reasons, there are examples of recent issues that aren't available on the secondary market.
As far as something selling for more at issue time, it's just an odd circumstance. It might mean that the issue price was too low but it could also just be a group of people that don't know the item is available elsewhere or don't trust a small website.
It could mean other things, but I would take it to be market research indicating the price is too low. I think the realized prices are providing market research to Dan.
Yes I meant a Gold Caballito.
As for the 1805, that means you were referring to the ones overstruck on Draped Bust Dollars. There were only 33 made and like I mentioned earlier, I believe those are in the hands of a few people who aren't selling (since it took sending in your own coin to Carr).
And we'll have to agree to disagree on point about items reselling for more than issue price while still available. I've seen this happen not only with Carr, but with US Mint and other mint products. And when it does happen, it's not in significant quantities. To me that suggests the buyers aren't aware of the original source or don't want to use that source for some reason.
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
It seems like the ones that aren't often available are the earlier products. Anything released in the last few years is often easier to find.
The ones I mentioned were struck in the last few years. I've never seen a 1805 Dollar (struck August 2019), MCMVI Winged Liberty Double Eagle (struck August - December 2018), or Caballito (struck August - December 2019) available on the secondary market. Have you seen these anywhere? The Oregon Half (struck March 2012) and CBH (struck June 2012) are older, used to be more available but have dried up.
And currently available products being resold is something I've also seen with US Mint products (and other mints). There might still be a group of people that are unaware that Dan sells on his website or people that prefer to only use eBay (vs a standalone website). Otherwise I'm not sure why people would pay more for something still available for less.
Nothing wrong with eBay as a venue. I'm just saying if they are selling for more during issue time (on any venue), Dan's issue price may be too low. Pricing is an art and these sales may be providing some pricing research for Dan.
I agree,,,,,, pricing is an art,,,,,,,,but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There comes a point where you price yourself out of the market. If Dan's pieces didn't provide the potential for a resell profit as they do allot of people would not be as excited (myself included) to purchase them in the first place.
Sure, he could raise his prices and sell some but I suspect that he does better selling at the current prices and selling more than he would if he raised his prices and sold less. Better to sell 100 pcs at $150 ea than to sell 50 pcs at $200 ea. Without the resell profit potential I feel the market demand overall for the product would just keep shrinking,,,,, and soon the GOLDEN or SILVER goose dies,,,,,
I think there's a big difference between reselling after Dan's offering is closed and while it's still open. It's only been fairly recently that I've seen significant reselling while Dan's offer is still active and I think that's changing things. I think higher issue prices is something that should be expected from this type of realized price data.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "gold version"? Do you mean a gold Caballito? I haven't heard of one but that would be awesome.
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Heck yes!!!!! I want some o/s gold. I was holding on to a few pre 33 gold double eagles cause Dan said he might o/s some.....I forget already what but ended up using them for Ron’s o/s but would
simply love some.
Wow! That's insane. Looks like 20 12 were struck. I would love to get one and will be on the lookout now.
As for the 1805, that means you were referring to the ones overstruck on Draped Bust Dollars. There were only 33 made and like I mentioned earlier, I believe those are in the hands of a few people who aren't selling (since it took sending in your own coin to Carr).
It's smaller than you think. Dan indicated that one person sent in 28 to be overstruck so the number of people is less than 10. It will be interesting to see what happens when those are sold.
And we'll have to agree to disagree on point about items reselling for more than issue price while still available. I've seen this happen not only with Carr, but with US Mint and other mint products. And when it does happen, it's not in significant quantities. To me that suggests the buyers aren't aware of the original source or don't want to use that source for some reason.
To me, if the price is the same or closer, it could mean people aren't aware of the source or want to use a different website. But if the price difference is significant, it can mean a pricing opportunity.
I normally wait a year or so after the items close out to try reselling,,,,,, I don't recall ever trying to sell while still being sold by Dan,,,,, but as you said some people don't know where to get them originally, but Google is your friend (actually they are not) but you can get the info if you really want it.
Wow! Check out that price estimate. If it hits that, I bet someone is getting a good return.
Estimate: $7,000 - $8,000.
That someone might be:
"Provenance: From the Allan Schein Collection."
"[...] this incredibly alluring and wondrous fantasy is the work of Dan Carr's Moonlight Mint and the consultation of Allan Schein--author of Mexican Beauty/Belleza Mexicana - Un Peso Caballito. "
As for the 1805, that means you were referring to the ones overstruck on Draped Bust Dollars. There were only 33 made and like I mentioned earlier, I believe those are in the hands of a few people who aren't selling (since it took sending in your own coin to Carr).
It's smaller than you think. Dan indicated that one person sent in 28 to be overstruck so the number of people is less than 10. It will be interesting to see what happens when those are sold.
I sent/bought two from Dan: one brilliant, one circulated.
Wow! Check out that price estimate. If it hits that, I bet someone is getting a good return.
Estimate: $7,000 - $8,000.
That someone might be:
"Provenance: From the Allan Schein Collection."
"[...] this incredibly alluring and wondrous fantasy is the work of Dan Carr's Moonlight Mint and the consultation of Allan Schein--author of Mexican Beauty/Belleza Mexicana - Un Peso Caballito. "
Great info. I glossed over the description and missed that. The MM catalog indicates these may not have been for sale so Allan and Dan may have all of these.
Here's one I picked up from Matthew Savanich who produced the 1902-S/S/S Philippines Peso with Dan and Robert Harris. This was a late night eBay pick up. I've missed out on a lot of rare items over the years and was happy to pick this up.
Here's Matt's description:
Up for Consideration:1902-S/S/S US-Philippines Peso By Daniel Carr of the Moonlight Mint This example comes with an insert that is signed by Daniel Carr. Two double-Struck examples were made during the process and this is the only one available to collectors, Mr. Carr owns the other.Features: - Satin Finish - S/S/S Mintmark designed from the 1909-S Peso variety - Straight Serif "1" designed from the 1905-S Peso variety - "2" of date designed from the 1912-S Peso - Mintage of 2 Double Struck Examples - Same specifications as host coins (90% Silver) - Gem Quality
[...]
USPI collector Robert Harris and myself Matthew Savanich of Panhandle Numismatics partnered with Dan Carr of the Moonlight Mint to produce the 1902-S/S/S Peso. The Peso is a modern overstrike using a Denver Mint surplus press on genuine 1903-(P), 1903-S, and 1904-S Pesos that were in the VF to low AU condition range that had been cleaned, polished, or in some other way slightly damaged. A 1903 Proof Peso was used as the design model to enhance the details for the finished overstrike product. These will be listed in a special section of the 3rd edition of the Honeycutt book of Philippines medals and tokens due to release sometime in 2020. No US/Philippine coins were ever minted in 1902, first official issues started in 1903. These can be certified only by ANACS at this time.NOTE: These are not endorsed by the U.S. Treasury or the Philippines. Defacing of U.S. coins is legal so long as the defacement is not for fraudulent purposes.
As for the 1805, that means you were referring to the ones overstruck on Draped Bust Dollars. There were only 33 made and like I mentioned earlier, I believe those are in the hands of a few people who aren't selling (since it took sending in your own coin to Carr).
It's smaller than you think. Dan indicated that one person sent in 28 to be overstruck so the number of people is less than 10. It will be interesting to see what happens when those are sold.
I sent/bought two from Dan: one brilliant, one circulated.
Those are great! I only sent 1 in for a Satin one. I've often wished I had sent in 2!
Thanks for the Moonlight Mint shopping tip Chief !!!
This DC shopping opportunity was a fun way to start off 1-1-2021.
I did think about it for 20 minutes seeing 360 admission fee but felt the 1 of 100 limit would give me time. So I had another coffee to consider it and reflected on how much I have looked forward to this specific issue MCMXXI Peace since Daniel mentioned it might happen, in what, maybe 18 months ago now ?
These are not on 1921, instead are overstruck on "1922-1935"
@LindyS said:
Thanks for the Moonlight Mint shopping tip Chief !!!
This DC shopping opportunity was a fun way to start off 1-1-2021.
I did think about it for 20 minutes seeing 360 admission fee but felt the 1 of 100 limit would give me time. So I had another coffee to consider it and reflected on how much I have looked forward to this specific issue MCMXXI Peace since Daniel mentioned it might happen, in what, maybe 18 months ago now ?
I like coins with roman numerals so idea of this MCMXXI was very appealing. Knowing 1921 Peace were considered with a MCMXXI date made it highly desirable and now paired with originally correct broken sword makes me wish I could order 3. Lift the limits Daniel, lets close this coin art offer today !
It would be nice to know for sure, as it is quite a difference. @dcarr
Are these in fact struck over 1921 Peace dollars or are the dates random? Thanks
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
Big time bummer. For whatever it is worth to anyone reading this I am interested and paying $$$ for the Winged Gaudens in gold. I snapped up all the new Peace and Morgan pieces. Can't wait to see them.
"All are over-struck on Peace Silver Dollars originally minted from 1922-1935.
Do not attempt to use these as legal tender. This product is NOT endorsed or approved by the US Mint, US Treasury, or US Government."
But earlier in same page
its says these are on 1921, so either way its all good
The description for the "MCMXXI" over-strike was a cut/paste from the previous "1920" over-strike. The "1920" version was over-struck on 1922-1935 Peace Dollars. The "MCMXXI" version is over-struck on 1921 Peace Dollars. I failed to make the corrections when I did the cut/paste, but I have fixed it now. Thanks for pointing out the error.
At present I have 82 of the 1921 Peace Dollars (I will need to get 18 more). They are generally worn and/or cleaned, but do not have significant mechanical damage. They cost about $60 to $90 each (the ones I bought later cost a little more - the price seems to have been creeping up a little).
PS:
There will be only 100 of the MCMXXI Broken-Sword over-strikes. Once I get into the production, if any are converted to the "circulated" finish, any such pieces will be part of the 100 total.
I have plans to possibly issue some other 1921-2021 Morgan/Peace centennial items later this year, but any such items will have significant differences from current offerings.
"All are over-struck on Peace Silver Dollars originally minted from 1922-1935.
Do not attempt to use these as legal tender. This product is NOT endorsed or approved by the US Mint, US Treasury, or US Government."
But earlier in same page
its says these are on 1921, so either way its all good
The description for the "MCMXXI" over-strike was a cut/paste from the previous "1920" over-strike. The "1920" version was over-struck on 1922-1935 Peace Dollars. The "MCMXXI" version is over-struck on 1921 Peace Dollars. I failed to make the corrections when I did the cut/paste, but I have fixed it now. Thanks for pointing out the error.
At present I have 82 of the 1921 Peace Dollars (I will need to get 18 more). They are generally worn and/or cleaned, but do not have significant mechanical damage. They cost about $60 to $90 each (the ones I bought later cost a little more - the price seems to have been creeping up a little).
PS:
There will be only 100 of the MCMXXI Broken-Sword over-strikes. Once I get into the production, if any are converted to the "circulated" finish, any such pieces will be part of the 100 total.
I have plans to possibly issue some other 1921-2021 Morgan/Peace centennial items later this year, but any such items will have significant differences from current offerings.
Comments
I think it's nice for it to be a real 1921 Peace Dollar. The price is low enough that these need to be low grade/priced coins.
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I would think so as who would o/s a gem 21 peace
But, yes, prolly polished, damaged etc... 21’s will be neat.
Would also be cool if the under date was barely visible
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
That would explain the uptick in pricing. I hope mine shows a bit of ghosting from the host coin if that is the case.
Yeah, I had to bite the bullet and get one . . .
Z
Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
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PS......I can only hope the mintage stays at 100. It would be nice to own a rarity.
Unless......die pair 2, 3 4 etc.... is down the pipeline
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That would have me a bit concerned too. Could there also be bulk handled versions?
I'm still debating it, but at $360 it seems too pricey and I could easily see these selling for less on eBay in the future. And nothing against Carr-he sees the aftermarket prices and why leave the profit for the resellers.
Quite a few coins are almost never, or never, available on eBay, like the 1805 Dollar and MCMVI (1906) Winged Liberty St. Gaudens. I haven't seen either of these resold ever. Others were offered before but come up rarely now like the 1816 CBH. I can see this being one of them if there are no more die pairs.
What I find interesting is that sometimes Dan's pieces are being resold on eBay for more while the mintage is still open and being offered by Dan directly. I can understand selling them for more after the mintage closes, but in this situation, it seems Dan's own prices may be too low. Part of the increase in prices may be to adjust to these early resales.
While we are debating the subject:
Why do they have to be 1921 host coins?
Couldn't he have used common dates with the same effect? Unless of course you can see the 1921 date of the host coin. I guess that would be neat.
Still undecided on where I stand regarding overstriking key dates. My inner voice is saying bad idea, but my impulse is to buy one anyway.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
As for numbers, there seem to be quite a few 1921s available and the prices aren't overly high for the low grade ones. And it's just a maximum of 100 overstrikes out of an original mintage of over 1 million, so approximately 0.01% of the mintage.
My inner voice is saying bad idea, but my impulse is to buy one anyway.
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I’ll help your inner self decide.......by it, I’ll pay .......you send it over to me, done!
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It seems like the ones that aren't often available are the earlier products. Anything released in the last few years is often easier to find.
And currently available products being resold is something I've also seen with US Mint products (and other mints). There might still be a group of people that are unaware that Dan sells on his website or people that prefer to only use eBay (vs a standalone website). Otherwise I'm not sure why people would pay more for something still available for less.
The ones I mentioned were struck in the last few years. I've never seen a 1805 Dollar (struck August 2019), MCMVI Winged Liberty Double Eagle (struck August - December 2018), or Caballito (struck August - December 2019) available on the secondary market. Have you seen these anywhere? The Oregon Half (struck March 2012) and CBH (struck June 2012) are older, used to be more available but have dried up.
Nothing wrong with eBay as a venue. I'm just saying if they are selling for more during issue time (on any venue), Dan's issue price may be too low. Pricing is an art and these sales may be providing some pricing research for Dan.
I've seen a Caballito and even a gold version. By 1805 Dollar, do you mean the ones overstruck on real Draped Bust Dollars? Otherwise, there are currently 3 on eBay (the one overstruck on more common silver Dollars). The other one only had 33 made and I could see those not showing up since someone had to send in their own coin to be overstruck (which suggests to me they weren't planning to sell any time soon). The gold MCMVI had even less made at 19 and the price is high enough where many might not want to deal with the hassles of eBay if selling it.
As far as something selling for more at issue time, it's just an odd circumstance. It might mean that the issue price was too low but it could also just be a group of people that don't know the item is available elsewhere or don't trust a small website.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "gold version"? Do you mean a gold Caballito? I haven't heard of one but that would be awesome.
For the 1805 Dollars, I'm referring to the ones that don't say "STRUCK ON A USA SILVER DOLLAR" as I don't consider those to be true fantasy coins. Regardless of the reasons, there are examples of recent issues that aren't available on the secondary market.
It could mean a variety of things, but I would take it to be market research indicating the price is too low. I think the realized prices are providing market research to Dan.
I agree,,,,,, pricing is an art,,,,,,,,but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There comes a point where you price yourself out of the market. If Dan's pieces didn't provide the potential for a resell profit as they do allot of people would not be as excited (myself included) to purchase them in the first place.
Sure, he could raise his prices and sell some but I suspect that he does better selling at the current prices and selling more than he would if he raised his prices and sold less. Better to sell 100 pcs at $150 ea than to sell 50 pcs at $200 ea. Without the resell profit potential I feel the market demand overall for the product would just keep shrinking,,,,, and soon the GOLDEN or SILVER goose dies,,,,,
Yes I meant a Gold Caballito.
As for the 1805, that means you were referring to the ones overstruck on Draped Bust Dollars. There were only 33 made and like I mentioned earlier, I believe those are in the hands of a few people who aren't selling (since it took sending in your own coin to Carr).
And we'll have to agree to disagree on point about items reselling for more than issue price while still available. I've seen this happen not only with Carr, but with US Mint and other mint products. And when it does happen, it's not in significant quantities. To me that suggests the buyers aren't aware of the original source or don't want to use that source for some reason.
I think there's a big difference between reselling after Dan's offering is closed and while it's still open. It's only been fairly recently that I've seen significant reselling while Dan's offer is still active and I think that's changing things. I think higher issue prices is something that should be expected from this type of realized price data.
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Heck yes!!!!! I want some o/s gold. I was holding on to a few pre 33 gold double eagles cause Dan said he might o/s some.....I forget already what but ended up using them for Ron’s o/s but would
simply love some.
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Wow! That's insane. Looks like 20 12 were struck. I would love to get one and will be on the lookout now.
It's smaller than you think. Dan indicated that one person sent in 28 to be overstruck so the number of people is less than 10. It will be interesting to see what happens when those are sold.
To me, if the price is the same or closer, it could mean people aren't aware of the source or want to use a different website. But if the price difference is significant, it can mean a pricing opportunity.
I'm on the opposite end of this discussion, but just because something is offered for sale on Ebay doesn't mean it SOLD for that price on Ebay.
There are quite a few pieces languishing on the top end of the resale scale right now.
Z
Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
Does anyone have a pic of the gold Caballito? I would love to see one.
I had no clue there 20 struck ....dang wish I knew
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This is from the Moonlight Mint Catalog. Opps, I made a mistake. It's just 12!
I just learned about these too! I would have been so in on this!
I normally wait a year or so after the items close out to try reselling,,,,,, I don't recall ever trying to sell while still being sold by Dan,,,,, but as you said some people don't know where to get them originally, but Google is your friend (actually they are not) but you can get the info if you really want it.
@Zoins and @coinsarefun it is in the upcoming Stacks auction with a starting bid of $4,200:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-PL1Z9/mexico-gold-medallic-caballito-peso-1907-moonlight-dan-carr-mint-anacs-ms-70?utm_source=barnebys&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=barnebys&utm_content=2021-01-17
I should be clear that I have no problem with people reselling while the original offer is open.
It's just that people should expect this type of realized price data to be factored into future issue prices.
Wow! Check out that price estimate. If it hits that, I bet someone is getting a good return.
And it has a provenance too! I've mentioned that it would be nice to track provenance of Dan's pieces and here it is!
I think we are already seeing that in the Escher staircase silver pieces, although those are north of one ounce of silver.
G
Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
That someone might be:
"Provenance: From the Allan Schein Collection."
"[...] this incredibly alluring and wondrous fantasy is the work of Dan Carr's Moonlight Mint and the consultation of Allan Schein--author of Mexican Beauty/Belleza Mexicana - Un Peso Caballito. "
I sent/bought two from Dan: one brilliant, one circulated.
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Thanks for the link. Wow, that’s out of my “reasonable” money for something like that. Good luck
to the seller and hope he gets at or above!
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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Great info. I glossed over the description and missed that. The MM catalog indicates these may not have been for sale so Allan and Dan may have all of these.
Here's one I picked up from Matthew Savanich who produced the 1902-S/S/S Philippines Peso with Dan and Robert Harris. This was a late night eBay pick up. I've missed out on a lot of rare items over the years and was happy to pick this up.
Here's Matt's description:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1902-philippines-peso-double-struck-2090150267
Those are great! I only sent 1 in for a Satin one. I've often wished I had sent in 2!
Here's mine:
Thanks for the Moonlight Mint shopping tip Chief !!!
This DC shopping opportunity was a fun way to start off 1-1-2021.
I did think about it for 20 minutes seeing 360 admission fee but felt the 1 of 100 limit would give me time. So I had another coffee to consider it and reflected on how much I have looked forward to this specific issue MCMXXI Peace since Daniel mentioned it might happen, in what, maybe 18 months ago now ?
These are not on 1921, instead are overstruck on "1922-1935"
Lindy
Glad you're in!
I didn't have to think too hard myself because I have a special fondness for fantasy coins that are tied to historical events:
I like coins with roman numerals so idea of this MCMXXI was very appealing. Knowing 1921 Peace were considered with a MCMXXI date made it highly desirable and now paired with originally correct broken sword makes me wish I could order 3. Lift the limits Daniel, lets close this coin art offer today !
That is not what the site says. It specifically says they are struck over 1921 Peace dollars
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
http://www.dc-coin.com/1grabenercoinpressmedallionsaleprice-1-6-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.aspx
End text in quotes:
"All are over-struck on Peace Silver Dollars originally minted from 1922-1935.
Do not attempt to use these as legal tender. This product is NOT endorsed or approved by the US Mint, US Treasury, or US Government."
But earlier in same page
its says these are on 1921, so either way its all good
It would be nice to know for sure, as it is quite a difference.
@dcarr
Are these in fact struck over 1921 Peace dollars or are the dates random? Thanks
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I think the MCMXXI are all struck over 1921 Peace Dollars as mentioned in the Catalog.
The Order Page may be left over from 1920 which is mentioned above:
1813-2013 Oliver Hazard Perry Battle of Lake Erie Bicentennial - 50 grams .999+ Gold
This 2013 Battle of Lake Erie Bicentennial is currently available. Looks nice and is a lot of gold!
Maybe Dan will produce other versions of the MCMXXI Peace Dollars -- bag handled, circulated, prooflike, matte, clashed, heavily ghosted.
But I'd expect these different versions would be overstruck on OTHER dollar coins, not on the high-relief 1921 Peace dollar.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
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I prefer this one.......same gold content and a couple hundred cheaper.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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There was a lot of conversation tonight so I may have missed it but, I noticed a silver Caballito
is being auctioned as well.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-PLPB2/mexico-silver-caballito-peso-token-1907-anacs-ms-70?utm_source=barnebys&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=barnebys&utm_content=2021-01-20
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Big time bummer. For whatever it is worth to anyone reading this I am interested and paying $$$ for the Winged Gaudens in gold. I snapped up all the new Peace and Morgan pieces. Can't wait to see them.
As others mentioned, it would be nice to see a "1921" ghost on the MCMXXI Peace Dollars. Like this:
Given the 1921 host coins' high-relief, I'd be surprised if there was no ghosting on the MCMXXI Peace Dollar.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
The description for the "MCMXXI" over-strike was a cut/paste from the previous "1920" over-strike. The "1920" version was over-struck on 1922-1935 Peace Dollars. The "MCMXXI" version is over-struck on 1921 Peace Dollars. I failed to make the corrections when I did the cut/paste, but I have fixed it now. Thanks for pointing out the error.
At present I have 82 of the 1921 Peace Dollars (I will need to get 18 more). They are generally worn and/or cleaned, but do not have significant mechanical damage. They cost about $60 to $90 each (the ones I bought later cost a little more - the price seems to have been creeping up a little).
PS:
There will be only 100 of the MCMXXI Broken-Sword over-strikes. Once I get into the production, if any are converted to the "circulated" finish, any such pieces will be part of the 100 total.
I have plans to possibly issue some other 1921-2021 Morgan/Peace centennial items later this year, but any such items will have significant differences from current offerings.
Only 10 minted
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Does anyone know the mintage of Wilson gold? Last I heard it was 5
What is it at now?
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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I think there is one more production run planned by Jeff Shevlin and the final mintage of the gold might end up being 10 to 15 pieces.
Thanks Dan for your informative posts
Awesome !
The MCMXXI are overstruck on 1921 Peace, very nice !
Lindy