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The New Doily Census - 2016

DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
First, let me acknowledge the large efforts by Billet7 to start the initial Doily Census, and even more importantly, Lakesammman's efforts to not only build upon those initial numbers, but also bring the Census up to current levels and provide a new format, expand upon the ease of use and other (upcoming) features. This is truly his work, and while others have bemoaned the lack of a current Census, Lakes stepped up and did all the critical 'grunt' work to allow us to have a viable resource. He will also be responsible for intermittent updates, on roughly a bi-weekly schedule.



Historically, the Doily was conceived so long ago that many of the principals at the time have slightly different recollections of slabbing duration, slabbing rate per day, and even the specifics of why the Doily came into being. This much we are sure of -- the Doily was a direct response to a potential counterfeiting threat of the Rattler (Green). PCGS undertook several security measures at the time. The first was the insert -- using the idea of a more complex background, similar to what appears on currency. The second was a sealed 'ring' around the Rattler holder, which of course created the dimensions currently known for all standard PCGS holders since that time. After a small amount of production time, it was determined the insert, while certainly enhancing security, did not provide the 'look' PCGS was seeking, and the Doily insert was changed to green (starting a series of 'OGH' holders, some of which are quite rare in their own right). That decision was made quite quickly, hence the overall rarity of the Doily in current numismatics. Although there are other aspects of the apocrypha, legends, and rumors surrounding the Doily, it is imperative we acknowledge that these are my personal observations after talking with PCGS principals and notable dealers, and much more detailed information will be forthcoming from Mr. Mike Sherman of PCGS, who, in time, will publish some slabbing history from PCGS itself.



The Doily Census reveals some interesting information beyond just the numbers. First, it shows the types of coins that were most often sent in for certification during a small slice of history. Morgan Dollars (especially in 65 and above) were popular and expensive, leading to a preponderance of that coin. The relative newness of certification in general led most people to not send in too many common coins (bullion, Kennedys, etc). Certification costs were just too high to slab common coins, and unless there was a profit incentive, many did not get sent in. The Census will also show those Doilies missing the outer ring. This phenomenon happened primarily as a result of impact, as in dropping on a cement bourse floor, which would crack off the security ring, sonically sealed together, but not sealed to the inner 'Rattler' section. The Doily remains, but it is sometimes confused as a different iteration due to the missing outer ring. The ultimate solution to this was the one-piece slab, which at the time was still several generations away.



As Doilies reappear from Gramp's safety deposit box, or the dusty back corner of a B & M shop of questionable cleanliness, we will have them added here. Feel free to post a picture if you are able, and if not, the coin type, date/MM combination, grade (and any grade modifiers -- PL, DMPL, etc.), and most importantly, the certification number. Since the beginnings of the Census, many intriguing coins have appeared, we have been able to gain a more complete picture of grading standards of the time, and attention has been paid to this growing aspect of certification, which revolutionized our hobby in 1986. Look forward to several other highlights to be added here in time.



Post away . . . let's keep the Census as accurate and up-to-date as possible! If you know of any holders that have been lost (recertification, destruction, etc.), inform us. If you have any questions at all, feel free to PM (Lakesammman or Drunner), or post. We'll be monitoring the thread routinely, and welcome all who have additions or questions. I will revise this first post with more Doily information, special or unique Doily coins, and any current sales or discoveries, and update history as it can be confirmed.



Remember our mantra . . . . . . . ." Collect the Plastic, NOT the coin!"



Drunner





«13456717

Comments

  • ThePennyLadyThePennyLady Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you for keeping this list updated!



    This is a two cent piece from my personal collection that is not on your list.



    image
    Charmy HarkerThe Penny Lady®
  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool... will have to check the list for the ones I have... will have about 15 of them or so in my case at the ANA Show this week... thought these were rare??? image




    One thing I notice that's missing that used to be on the old thread is the running count of how many of these are known... was nice see the totals quickly. Good work in trying to keep this list as current as possible image


  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just recently sold an 1879-S Morgan not in the census but only 2 digits different



    8191952



    I can post pictures when I get back from the ANA show

  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image



    Present and accounted for
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would you want Sample Doilies as well? Probably not since the S/N are the same...or are they?



    1964-D 10C MS64 5129.64/7000023
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,...
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Swampboy: Yours is there - it will take a while to get used to the new format. image



    Have added the other 3 - will be checking regularly and updating the screen shots every 2 weeks or so, less often if new Doilies are few and far between.



    Samples are left off since serial numbers are all the same - no way to accurately know the pops as a result. BUT, if you have an odd date sample, would love to see it!



    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • JJSingletonJJSingleton Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The date? for the Oregon 3130707 on the list is 1937-D.



    Here's an image:

    image

    Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia

    Findley Ridge Collection
    About Findley Ridge

  • cupronikcupronik Posts: 773 ✭✭✭
    I consigned an 1838 SL 25c in a doily holder to HA.com's upcoming Sept 2016 Long Beach Signature Sale (PCGS cert #7344713.)
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,558 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,684 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's my one and only:



    image



    The full cert number is 09142618.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,306 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BryceM
    Here's my one and only:

    image

    The full cert number is 09142618.


    wow, i sure do like the looks of this one. best wishes
  • 78saen78saen Posts: 980 ✭✭✭✭
    imageimage



    imageimage



    imageimage



    image
    Positive Transactions, CharlotteDude, SpaceMonkey, pcgs69, LeeG, MICHAELDIXON, drddm, yellowkid, jmj3esq, colorcommem, CommemDude, lkeigwin, InYHWHWeTrust, ajaan, CoinAddict, CCC2010, coinsarefun, nibanny, scrapman1077, fivecents, erickso1, ibzman350, lakeshore and more.
  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Naaaawwww . . . not going to let you ersatz-numismatists push this thread down quite so fast . . . . . . . .



    Let's see those Doilies! Let's hear it for the work that has been done to preserve slabbing history !!!!



    Lakes has already updated the above additions . . . . let's BRING IT ON !!!!!!!!





    "Collect the plastic -- NOT the coin !"
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wasn't planning on updating more often than every 2 weeks or so but there have been a lot of new coins posted. Updated today as of 8-8-16.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,558 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep them coming! image
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2016 8:18PM
    Another hammer1 the stalker troll flagging for no legitimate reason.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • SurfinxHISurfinxHI Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi all,



    You already have most of mine listed. The other two I have are as follows: 1881 S 6220804 and 1886 P 8185351 (missing outer holder).



    Cheers,

    Surf



    ps. It would be kinda cool if there were totals associated with the list as well (maybe just by type and a composite total?). Thanks!
    Dead people tell interesting tales.
  • Can't get image to transfer at this time. 1882 cc 63 dmpl missing outer holder # 8190754. It is in my PCGS registery. Enter PCGS number into PCGS Verification and will take you to image. How many dmpl doily's are accounted for at this time?

    Howard
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If posting new serial numbers, please let us know the denomination of the coin as well. I don't have the time to check every serial number at PCGS.



    More than happy to add grades and other designations if people don't mind the "clutter" and the lack of information for the 600+ already in the spreadsheet.



    Will be adding totals in the next iteration - so far Doilies make up .002% of the 31 million coins graded by PCGS (648 Doilies reported to date).
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • Sorry

    1882 CC Morgan Dollar MS 63 DMPL # 8190754. The construction of the doily list so far is an outstanding accomplishment and very helpful.

    Howard
  • JKTJKT Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    Not sure if I missed something on the census, but just for the record, there is an 1884 Seated Liberty proof quarter that I owned for a while before selling back in 2013. If there is also a business strike 1884, then the proof can be added. Otherwise, I hope the clarification that the coin is in fact a proof is helpful.

    Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.

  • Had the opportunity to quickly look at the Great Collections archive for sold Morgan Dollars. What follows are a few doily's not on the list. Images are on the Great Collections website

    All Morgan Dollars

    1878 7 tf Rev 79 MS 63 # 8180672

    1878 S MS 63 DMPL # 8191936

    1881 S MS 65 # 7349749

    1881 S MS 65 # 7349751

    1882 MS 63 # 8183264

    1882 S MS 65 #8201989 (Gold CAC Sticker)

    1882 S MS 66 # 3130068

    1886 MS 64 # 8185351

    1889 S MS 63 # 8201743

    1896 P MS 62 # 7302987

    1903 O MS 63 # 7305584

    1921 P MS 64 # 8180229

    Howard
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow - thanks for the research at GC!
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • uofa1285uofa1285 Posts: 2,252 ✭✭
    Nice seeing you at the show today, Penny Lady!

    You were busy but you seemed very nice, of course. image
    Visit my eBay Store to see my (mostly) overpriced Rainbow Toned PCGS/NGC coins! IshopCoinShows4You
  • uofa1285uofa1285 Posts: 2,252 ✭✭
    I bought a 45P in a doily with a gold bean on it today at the Anaheim show. I already mailed it for photos so I don't have the number to add. But will later!
    Visit my eBay Store to see my (mostly) overpriced Rainbow Toned PCGS/NGC coins! IshopCoinShows4You
  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lakes . . .Thought a PM, but this will legally bring the thread back up . .



    Edits and additions:



    --The 1839 Bust Half is a Reeded Edge . . . (obvious I guess) and was wondering if it should have a separate category (certainly not a big deal).

    --We can add a 1933-D Lincoln in 65RD - 8185175m (missing outer ring)

    --The 1964 Kennedy (7305609) is a proof.

    --We can add an Arkansas (P) Commem in MS64 -- 7346683.

    --The Washington-Carver Commem line is repeated.

    --The Norfolk Commem serial is 8199473.



    Just two additions . . most is simple bookkeeping.





    Thanks . .



    Drunner
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .

    picked up a 63-d 50c ms64 8187527 i may try to get a gold sticker on. with outer ring.

    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Corrections noted - thanks! Will be posted in the next iteration later this month.



    The lettered v. reeded edge is an important type differentiation - thanks for noting that!



    All - is it important to call out the Proofs as different from the MS coins??
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Lakesammman

    Corrections noted - thanks! Will be posted in the next iteration later this month.



    The lettered v. reeded edge is an important type differentiation - thanks for noting that!



    All - is it important to call out the Proofs as different from the MS coins??






    my 2c.



    since proofs seem to be the minority, it might not hurt to put *



    * indicates prrof.



    seems the least amount of work, if you do it.



    you may even go on do do other notations.



    **

    ***

    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BTW - the Wa_Carver duplicate line is a function of having to save 11 screen shots and then piece them back together. It doesn't exist in the spreadsheet.



    There will be similar issues down the road, depending on how late in the day I do the post and how many Gin and Tonics have been consumed. image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    FTB et al:



    Please post pics to this thread that can be easily read. Is there a Doily in there somewhere?



    Links to various and sundry sites create too much effort and will not be pursued.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • Happened to see a sold doily on the APMEX web site. The first 1887-S Morgan Dollar in the census. MS64 # 7337547.

    Also my 1882 CC Morgan MS 63 DMPL (outer ring broken off) # 8190754, just got CAC certification yesterday. 27 years after slabbed. Love those Doily's and rattlers

    Howard
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Added Billet7's narrative which follows the spreadsheet. Updated to the best of my knowledge to include the most expensive doily ever ($111,625).



    Let me know if you see other sections that need updating.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Updated the spreadsheet through today, 8-31-16.



    Added totals of each type.



    Revised Billet7's narrative that follows the census. If you see anything needing correction, LMK.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why can't this thread be found via the forum search function!



    ###!!##&&&&%%$$!!!!! image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ttt - for those looking for this post instead of the old Doily census!
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • Great job on updated doily census thru 8/31/16. Just acquired 2nd doily Morgan Dollar. 1921 P MS63 #7303367.
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,558 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: hle04
    Great job on updated doily census thru 8/31/16. Just acquired 2nd doily Morgan Dollar. 1921 P MS63 #7303367.


    image




    image
  • I noticed the Doily Walker I posted on the old census is listed in this census as a Cleveland Half (SN 9142458). Does the Cleveland half with this serial number exist? Is there a photo of it that prompted the addition to this census? I hope I don't have a counterfeit!
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I noticed the Doily Walker I posted on the old census is listed in this census as a Cleveland Half (SN 9142458).



    I noticed that in the old thread you posted to - it and other additions will be corrected in the next spreadsheet due at the end of the month.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Collector1960

    I noticed the Doily Walker I posted on the old census is listed in this census as a Cleveland Half (SN 9142458). Does the Cleveland half with this serial number exist? Is there a photo of it that prompted the addition to this census? I hope I don't have a counterfeit!




    I mentioned this a few posts ago. Since it's still in the PCGS database, it's reasonable to assume the Cleveland is still around somewhere. There was a discussion/explanation [IIRC in the old census thread] about a SNAFU whereby this mixup and some others occured. If it's not in the old thread, I have no idea how to go about searching this forum for it.
  • Sandman70gtSandman70gt Posts: 978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Merc dime I got outbid on: 1937 P cert 6244858. Sold for 75.00 over coinfacts!

    Bst transactions with: dimeman, oih82w8, mercurydimeguy, dunerlaw, Lakesammman, 2ltdjorn, MattTheRiley, dpvilla, drddm, CommemKing, Relaxn, Yorkshireman, Cucamongacoin, jtlee321, greencopper, coin22lover, coinfolio, lindedad, spummybum, Leeroybrown, flackthat, BryceM, Surfinxhi, VanHalen, astrorat, robkool, Wingsrule, PennyGuy, al410, Ilikecolor, Southcounty, Namvet69, Commemdude, oreville, Leebone

  • The 1937 P 66FB doily Mercury referred to in previous post just sold for $140.29 on ebay
  • Sandman70gtSandman70gt Posts: 978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hle04-were you the buyer? I was outbid by a couple bucks.

    Bst transactions with: dimeman, oih82w8, mercurydimeguy, dunerlaw, Lakesammman, 2ltdjorn, MattTheRiley, dpvilla, drddm, CommemKing, Relaxn, Yorkshireman, Cucamongacoin, jtlee321, greencopper, coin22lover, coinfolio, lindedad, spummybum, Leeroybrown, flackthat, BryceM, Surfinxhi, VanHalen, astrorat, robkool, Wingsrule, PennyGuy, al410, Ilikecolor, Southcounty, Namvet69, Commemdude, oreville, Leebone

  • No I never bid on it just watching.

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