2016 NATIONAL REPORT - Day 1-3 write up, all pictures and final thoughts
bounce
Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭
Well, it’s OFFICIALLY UNDERWAY! 2016 National in Atlantic City!
I was in NY earlier in the week for business and decided to come down for three days. I must say, $15 for a bus ticket from NY to here seems like a STEAL! Bus was clean and comfortable, went from Penn Station in Midtown Manhattan to Bally’s, which was about 4-5 blocks from the Convention Center. My only gripe was the wireless on the bus was pretty spotty and kept dropping, but otherwise it was an excellent travel choice and far better than taking a train to Philly and then another to AC. Good job Greyhound!
I’ve never been to AC before, I must say I think it’s an odd spot for this show and I heard that from a lot of dealers. With no direct flights in, it is absolutely a hassle to get to (my travel experience aside). And it does NOT strike me as a family friendly place based on what I’ve seen so far. I cannot see me coming with my son if it was here again, more on that concept later.
The VIP check-in was pretty seamless, and the give-away cards were nice. I used to get more excited about that sort of thing, again they’re still nice but nothing really “special”. I do think some of these companies need to think through player selection again as some of it is getting awfully tired (pointing mostly at you UPPER DECK). We also got SMRs and auction previews for Heritage, and a bunch of low end guy autograph tickets. I’m not getting anyone so if you can track me down and/or want my “wild card”, try and get in touch and I’m happy to hand them off. The VIP lounge was nice and spacious, but there was no cell reception in that hall which immediately had me worried! Fortunately, it was not an issue in the main hall but boy oh boy did that have potential to be terrible.
VIPs were supposed to get in at 3:30p, but it was closer to 3:45p, no big deal really. There were a bunch of people running around inside the show that WERE NOT dealers, there’s probably no way to really police that but it could be a minor frustration for the “fairness” crowd. Didn’t really bother me, but I did notice. Another thing that struck me in line was that it was a pretty homogenous group, i.e. overwhelmingly middle aged or older white males. I know we’ve discuss this before in the past, but I am going to keep coming back to this cannot be good for the hobby long term. HOWEVER, one thing I was not aware of until I got here was that kids 12 and under get in free all week. I don’t remember that last year but maybe it was, if it’s new that’s a BRILLIANT IDEA in my view and I might encourage them to bump that age up another few years. While I did see plenty of dads and sons (and some daughters), that is not a significant portion of the crowd. But if you’re in NYC or near and weren’t sure whether to come, maybe that free admission might help change your mind. CONFIRM IT, but I’m pretty sure that’s accurate.
Front of the show is a case break pavilion. To be honest, that’s a pretty underwhelming entry view and I wish they’d have put that to the side like it was in Chicago. It just looks strange when you walk in and there are these sort of empty booths greeting you. It’s not exactly “exciting”, you know? But what did strike me was the number of outfits that do these things. Seeing it visually really drove home that this is a pretty big segment of the community now. It can also be wildly complicated, with all the different auction style spots and drafts and blah blah blah. Make sure you’re educated before you dive into that space. I think some of the complexity is driven by whoever is running each break, some seem a lot better than others, I’ve done a few before and it can be fun but it can also be a total waste, so just make sure you understand what you’re getting into.
PSA was also at the front, and they had a line from jump. All kinds of services offered, you can find all that on their website but the lines were long early on but subsided late in the day. The 2-3 hour services weren’t all that busy, but the “end of show” type submissions were going strong all day. Looked to me like they were doing plenty of volume at PSA, I know there were a lot of crosses and reviews also happening. Crosses seemed to be the popular choice of some of the high end guys I know, will be interesting to see if they do indeed cross or not. I think that’s a great game if you know what you’re doing, they are a number of SGC holders on the floor. Anyway, I dropped off one card, will update on it later today after I get it back, but it’s one you’ve seen from me before that is going to get a shiny new case to live in! Wish me LUCK!
I was able to walk the entire room Wednesday, which tells me the show is smaller this year than it was last year. There were a couple specific dealers I was looking for that I didn’t see, and just the eye test tells me it wasn’t as big. I do think the row numbers are probably close, but the show wasn’t as wide I don’t think. I realize this is subjective, but I’d be willing to bet it’s smaller. Not a ton, but it is smaller. I would also say the BREADTH of selection is not as good this year (I didn’t see a Wagner or a nice Jackson, only rare type Ruth’s were auction previews, ), but the DEPTH on certain cards is much more than last year. I saw CASES full of graded 86 Jordans, I saw quite a number of Mantle RCs and Clemente RCs for example, and I don’t remember that depth being quite as big last year. We’ll see if today confirms that or not, again I know it’s pretty subjective. As far as vintage wax/etc. goes, BBCE is basically it. I did see some others, but it is VERY slim.
The auction houses are again everywhere, seems like if you have a first and last name you can have an auction house. The auction preview has got to be the most frustrating part, as a lot of these outfits don’t clearly mark it in their showcases. Some of them are also selling things, and I heard 3-4 times “everything from here down to that dude leaning on that case is for sale, his case is auction preview and then those other around there are kinda for sale.” Just put a little sign in the case guys that says “AUCTION PREVIEW” and the dates and website – it’s really very easy. You’re welcome. They’re not all that way, but a lot of them are and it’s frustrating when it’s not clear.
For those of you in the “put a price I can see” camp, you’d be very disappointed. My general observation is MOST cards are not priced so you have to ask, and of the ones that are easily 50% or more of those are priced 20-25% over market. I think that’s going to mean dealers assume they have to negotiate so why price it right, make people ask. As a small time dealer, that makes sense to me on certain things but not everything. As a buyer, if it’s closer to 25% over I’m likely not to even ask because it feels too far to get to a price I’d be happy with. More on that later, but again in general I’d say most guys are overpricing and then looking to negotiate. I certainly hope that’s true.
As far as first day haul, I got…nothing. Saw some things I like, but nothing that was priced as “yes, but it”. I’m looking for mid-grade T206s mid-50s graded for sets and memorabilia mostly, and quite honestly I saw a lot of items that I saw last year, mostly with higher prices again. As I said, I think they’re resigned to having to negotiate, so we’ll see if I can chip away on that today. My sense was commerce yesterday was slow, but attendance is as light as it will probably be so I’m sure that’s part of it, however again I didn’t find anyone who I felt was aggressively trying to move anything and I didn’t notice as much dealer to dealer activity as I saw first day in Chicago last year.
I promise, I will try and get pictures up later today, please be patient on that front.
Hope you enjoy the updates.
I was in NY earlier in the week for business and decided to come down for three days. I must say, $15 for a bus ticket from NY to here seems like a STEAL! Bus was clean and comfortable, went from Penn Station in Midtown Manhattan to Bally’s, which was about 4-5 blocks from the Convention Center. My only gripe was the wireless on the bus was pretty spotty and kept dropping, but otherwise it was an excellent travel choice and far better than taking a train to Philly and then another to AC. Good job Greyhound!
I’ve never been to AC before, I must say I think it’s an odd spot for this show and I heard that from a lot of dealers. With no direct flights in, it is absolutely a hassle to get to (my travel experience aside). And it does NOT strike me as a family friendly place based on what I’ve seen so far. I cannot see me coming with my son if it was here again, more on that concept later.
The VIP check-in was pretty seamless, and the give-away cards were nice. I used to get more excited about that sort of thing, again they’re still nice but nothing really “special”. I do think some of these companies need to think through player selection again as some of it is getting awfully tired (pointing mostly at you UPPER DECK). We also got SMRs and auction previews for Heritage, and a bunch of low end guy autograph tickets. I’m not getting anyone so if you can track me down and/or want my “wild card”, try and get in touch and I’m happy to hand them off. The VIP lounge was nice and spacious, but there was no cell reception in that hall which immediately had me worried! Fortunately, it was not an issue in the main hall but boy oh boy did that have potential to be terrible.
VIPs were supposed to get in at 3:30p, but it was closer to 3:45p, no big deal really. There were a bunch of people running around inside the show that WERE NOT dealers, there’s probably no way to really police that but it could be a minor frustration for the “fairness” crowd. Didn’t really bother me, but I did notice. Another thing that struck me in line was that it was a pretty homogenous group, i.e. overwhelmingly middle aged or older white males. I know we’ve discuss this before in the past, but I am going to keep coming back to this cannot be good for the hobby long term. HOWEVER, one thing I was not aware of until I got here was that kids 12 and under get in free all week. I don’t remember that last year but maybe it was, if it’s new that’s a BRILLIANT IDEA in my view and I might encourage them to bump that age up another few years. While I did see plenty of dads and sons (and some daughters), that is not a significant portion of the crowd. But if you’re in NYC or near and weren’t sure whether to come, maybe that free admission might help change your mind. CONFIRM IT, but I’m pretty sure that’s accurate.
Front of the show is a case break pavilion. To be honest, that’s a pretty underwhelming entry view and I wish they’d have put that to the side like it was in Chicago. It just looks strange when you walk in and there are these sort of empty booths greeting you. It’s not exactly “exciting”, you know? But what did strike me was the number of outfits that do these things. Seeing it visually really drove home that this is a pretty big segment of the community now. It can also be wildly complicated, with all the different auction style spots and drafts and blah blah blah. Make sure you’re educated before you dive into that space. I think some of the complexity is driven by whoever is running each break, some seem a lot better than others, I’ve done a few before and it can be fun but it can also be a total waste, so just make sure you understand what you’re getting into.
PSA was also at the front, and they had a line from jump. All kinds of services offered, you can find all that on their website but the lines were long early on but subsided late in the day. The 2-3 hour services weren’t all that busy, but the “end of show” type submissions were going strong all day. Looked to me like they were doing plenty of volume at PSA, I know there were a lot of crosses and reviews also happening. Crosses seemed to be the popular choice of some of the high end guys I know, will be interesting to see if they do indeed cross or not. I think that’s a great game if you know what you’re doing, they are a number of SGC holders on the floor. Anyway, I dropped off one card, will update on it later today after I get it back, but it’s one you’ve seen from me before that is going to get a shiny new case to live in! Wish me LUCK!
I was able to walk the entire room Wednesday, which tells me the show is smaller this year than it was last year. There were a couple specific dealers I was looking for that I didn’t see, and just the eye test tells me it wasn’t as big. I do think the row numbers are probably close, but the show wasn’t as wide I don’t think. I realize this is subjective, but I’d be willing to bet it’s smaller. Not a ton, but it is smaller. I would also say the BREADTH of selection is not as good this year (I didn’t see a Wagner or a nice Jackson, only rare type Ruth’s were auction previews, ), but the DEPTH on certain cards is much more than last year. I saw CASES full of graded 86 Jordans, I saw quite a number of Mantle RCs and Clemente RCs for example, and I don’t remember that depth being quite as big last year. We’ll see if today confirms that or not, again I know it’s pretty subjective. As far as vintage wax/etc. goes, BBCE is basically it. I did see some others, but it is VERY slim.
The auction houses are again everywhere, seems like if you have a first and last name you can have an auction house. The auction preview has got to be the most frustrating part, as a lot of these outfits don’t clearly mark it in their showcases. Some of them are also selling things, and I heard 3-4 times “everything from here down to that dude leaning on that case is for sale, his case is auction preview and then those other around there are kinda for sale.” Just put a little sign in the case guys that says “AUCTION PREVIEW” and the dates and website – it’s really very easy. You’re welcome. They’re not all that way, but a lot of them are and it’s frustrating when it’s not clear.
For those of you in the “put a price I can see” camp, you’d be very disappointed. My general observation is MOST cards are not priced so you have to ask, and of the ones that are easily 50% or more of those are priced 20-25% over market. I think that’s going to mean dealers assume they have to negotiate so why price it right, make people ask. As a small time dealer, that makes sense to me on certain things but not everything. As a buyer, if it’s closer to 25% over I’m likely not to even ask because it feels too far to get to a price I’d be happy with. More on that later, but again in general I’d say most guys are overpricing and then looking to negotiate. I certainly hope that’s true.
As far as first day haul, I got…nothing. Saw some things I like, but nothing that was priced as “yes, but it”. I’m looking for mid-grade T206s mid-50s graded for sets and memorabilia mostly, and quite honestly I saw a lot of items that I saw last year, mostly with higher prices again. As I said, I think they’re resigned to having to negotiate, so we’ll see if I can chip away on that today. My sense was commerce yesterday was slow, but attendance is as light as it will probably be so I’m sure that’s part of it, however again I didn’t find anyone who I felt was aggressively trying to move anything and I didn’t notice as much dealer to dealer activity as I saw first day in Chicago last year.
I promise, I will try and get pictures up later today, please be patient on that front.
Hope you enjoy the updates.
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Comments
I can appreciate demand may be there, he's Top 3 in terms of popularity probably, but honestly - they are literally EVERYWHERE.
Even PSA 10s are NOT rare cards, and this show really drove that point home.
Where they seemed to step it up is in graded cards and autographs, they've got some high end items no doubt. They had a really nice case of display boxes, I'll post those pics later on but that's not something I recall them doing last year.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
The best part of the national for me is seeing the people here and other forums that I visit every day.
I did buy a really nice board game last year - bonus!
One of the big reasons I didn't want to attend AC was the chore getting there.
Glad it's in Chicago next year.
Looking forward to pics.
I did look at the pics on BBCEx Facebook.
Good luck to all those there.
As another collector who wasn't able to make it to AC this year, I look forward to seeing more reports.
Steve
Hope you rake this week!
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Speaking of breadth, well done bounce. As someone living vicariously, I thoroughly enjoyed this.
Hope you rake this week!
+1
who's winning the price battles so far?
When they turn out the lights on the first day, work doesn't end at BBCEx.
They're busy - e.g. - authenticating this 86F box:
At the current BBCEx "going rate" - this will set the owner back almost 3800 bucks.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Excellent recap! Looking forward to the pics!
Hiya Tim - aren't you at the National this year?
Excellent recap! Looking forward to the pics!
Hiya Tim - aren't you at the National this year?
No, unfortunately not, Mike. I will be scheduling a vacation week for last week of July next year to make sure I don't miss it in Chicago.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The whole show was light on cases, this is really the main one BBCE had.
That issue kind of threw me off my game for the first half of the day today, so I must admit I didn't not really enjoy myself for about 4 hours or so. Also, my feeling about the dealers was sort of half true - they did overprice because they felt they had to negotiate (I had 6 separate dealers tell me that), but also some of them just didn't care honestly.
This "buyer's group" is literally the talk of the show, basically every dealer is kind of "aware" of them and it's as if each one is just waiting for the group to show up to drop $250k in their laps. I don't know if it's become "urban legend" status yet, but again almost every guy I talked to who had even one 1950s high end (8 or better) RC was talking about this mysterious group of people - and because of them they were NOT negotiating at all, mostly because they've already priced their cards for the next leg up and seem content to sit and wait for it.
As I said yesterday, I think this practice is incredibly shortsighted, and borderline stupid if you consider how many potential buyers you're turning away. It's not healthy commerce, and has moved the hobby VERY VERY far from being collecting. Just my two cents, but if those things are going to turn into investing activities primarily (and I'm saying that because each new sale is "required" to set the new record), when the music stops there is going to be a giant hole get blown in someone's portfolio. Considering the number of cards that have moved that direction, and the types of buyers that exist (as I've already touched on from day one), it's not unreasonable to think that there is going to be an enormous and painful correction on the horizon. But until then, all roads apparently lead higher...until they don't.
www.questfortherookiecup.com
There's something here for everyone, and just think for a minute about these Fleer autographed sets! Absolutely incredible!
The Old Judge cards take up the top row of three cases - they may honestly be the highlight display of the show. These cards are absolutely incredible, the pictures cannot even begin to do them justice.
Fully signed 1986 Fleer set
Fully signed 1987 and 1988 Fleer sets; and pretty darn close 1989 and 1990 sets. Just wow!
Autographed RCs - fantastic selection for sure.
I'm pretty sure George sold this afternoon, but I'll look again in the morning. It is a magnificent document. And the Han***** is nothing to sneeze at.
However, I did find a couple folks who were in a mood to get things done quickly and at fair prices, so these got added to my continuing "set build".
And I was also able to haggle just a hair on this guy. I must say - this is a card that I DID NOT see very many of. In that general theme, and at risk of setting off a new buying frenzy if it hasn't already begun, but I saw very few Aaron Rodgers, and even fewer Roethlisberger or Brees Contenders RCs. I saw one guy with five, yes FIVE, autographed Peyton Manning Contenders, but I would definitely say that the future HOF QB Contenders autographed RCs were in VERY SHORT SUPPLY at this show. Maybe all these things are out on the west coast or something, but they definitely were not here.
I approached him late in the day today and asked if he was willing to trade, he kind of reluctantly said yes which pretty well told me what I needed to know. I was hoping to try and make a run at the Walter Johnson PSA Cracker Jack, but he had a couple other things I was interested in as well including a 1956 Mays PSA 8 that I could use for my set.
He flipped through my box, and pull out two Walter Johnson T206s and a Cy Young T206. Cards are well centered, one is a PWCC Hi End, and they were graded PSA 3, PSA 4 and SGC 55. This is definitely nice stuff. Obviously those three weren't going to get me to the Johnson Cracker so I focused on the 56 Mays. Before I could even finish speaking, this dealer told me he could easily sell the Mays before anything of mine he was looking at (we're two days in, that Mays is at $1,350 - it's not going anywhere), and that was that.
Thank you very much sir - enjoy looking at your cards! To be clear, he had plenty of T206s in the grade ranges of my cards for sale, all above VCP and eBay prices, but he didn't have any of what I was offering in trade. I get that sometimes a deal doesn't work, but I'm going to go back to a previous comment - I think for some of these guys it's been so good for so long now, they've forgotten how to treat customers. I can tell you this - I won't be back at his booth tomorrow and at $9,500 on the Johnson Cracker, I don't know how many other people will be either. Only thing I can figure is he's taking a run at a PSA 7 set, because he bought two 7s from a guy right before he started talking to me. If so, I get it - but then again why waste so much display space with something you have no intention of selling? It's a free country, to each their own I guess.
To sum up Day 2, I'd say prices are high but they're coming down. However, you better be ready to grind it out at least in vintage. My feeling is it's slowly moving toward more of a buyer's market, tomorrow will probably set the tone, though. I know there has been some volatility thanks to the casino floors, there were a couple dealers who went on "tilt" this afternoon with a few sales - unfortunately I wasn't there when it happened. But mostly, I think the dealers are trying to hold out but the pressure is mounting. Crowd was definitely better today, but from what I observed pockets aren't deep and reckless - there's a sense of "caution" if that makes sense? At least that's how it feels from what I've seen and experienced so far.
Here's to tomorrow, hope you enjoy the pics!
Great thread. Were there a lot of 1984 Star Jordan rookies? The fleer ones seem to be saturated
On a relative basis, no there are not many Star Jordans. I've seen a few, say 8-12, they are priced to the max though IMO. Star in general is pretty under-represented, as it's something I collect and last year I had a really nice handful by now. My main dealer more than doubled his prices on EVERYTHING since last year. I think they're slowly trickling out, but they definitely aren't flying (again, they're so overpriced that no one in their right mind could buy them). If you can find them for the right price, I think they are an absolute value but it's few and far between. There are continuing rumors that BGS is going to stop grading them, but I'm convinced that's just "salesmanship" and fear-mongering. But what do I know?
What I would give to rip that 59 fleer Ted Williams box!
$17,500? lol
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Can anyone tell me if the '79 Topps Hockey box has sold yet? I was hoping to get one in the $7500 range, but if $11k+ is the new norm I need to keep saving, lol.
Has anyone seen any 1951 Ringside Boxing items, such as graded packs, autographed cards, uncut panels, or anything interesting?
IG: goatcollectibles23
The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
Thank you!
KC
What I would give to rip that 59 fleer Ted Williams box!
$17,500? lol
I always see at least one or two of these released per year. I wonder if its the same guy slowly liquidating his collection. Has a case of these been sold perhaps a decade or more ago? Just food for thought.
Great update and pics.
I havent heard of the group attending and buying. But now I'm wondering how long some will hold out with some crazy prices before giving in. And how long the buyers will hold onto their money for the "right" price drop. Some relatively interesting times.
KC - looking fwd to your update and pics.
And I cannot believe ALL THE FREAKING JORDANS
The whole show was light on cases, this is really the main one BBCE had.
Yeah this is to be expected and what I've been saying. The '70s factory sealed landscape is barren. Get what you can if you see it as you'll probably never see it again.
Great photos David!
Another great recap. Excellent write up and photos. I know I speak for myself and I feel confident I am speaking for others, thanks for taking the time to write these recaps. For those of us not at National it is great to get the perspective from someone who is.
+1, love it with all the pics now!
I planned on being at the show for 4 hours or so but there was just too much there. Being a collector of 1950s through around 1975, it was easy to skip any table that had shiny stuff, so that made it a little easier. There were also a lot of tables with autographed items so another easy pass for me.
One dealer had 2 cases of Goudey Babe Ruth cards and someone had a full set of 1971 bazooka hockey panels ($35K ask). It was funny seeing all the BBCE wrapped boxes at tables other than BBCE’s massive both. The coolest unopened I saw was a full box of 1960 Topps cellos. It is being auctioned off. The display had a few packs out including one with Yaz on top and another with the Mantle/Boyer card. There were also literally tons of modern unopened.
There were a lot of Namath rookie cards and many 1971 Topps Greatest Moments cards. I only saw one or 2 at the 2012 National in Baltimore when I was building that set.
Dealers seemed willing to work with customers and even the ones that I didn’t buy from seemed friendly. I had a loose want list with me which included some 1971 Bazooka boxes. One dealer had 2 of the 3 I need but were priced more that I wanted to spend for ungraded ones. There seemed to be a dearth of early ‘70’s OPC cards and not much in the line of Topps Venezuela cards (707 Sports had 3 or 4 1966 Venezuela Mantle cards which I’m sure they’ll still have after the show).
My pickups were a nice 1953 Topps Satchel Paige (SGC 4), a 1952T Gil Hodges (PSA 5), 1962T Aaron (PSA 6), about 18 1952T commons (VG-EX) from Batters Box and 2 show special wax boxes from BBCE.
Last but not least, for my man Navarro - take a gander at these bad boys! Not in the BBCE both, these were out on the floor.
LIVE UPDATE FOR FRIDAY!
This bad boy got brand new zip code this morning, I was able to trade for it so it's heading to the Lone Star state with me!
Super pumped to grab this!
These huge price increases and non-dealing dealers once again remind me that I'm glad I'm bottom-feeding off-grade collector.
David, have you seen any T3's? Looking for a George Bell.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
* Show floor is unique compared to Chicago or Clevelamd which are setup like a giant rectangle. This one is smaller and long and narrow.
* Center area is where the auction houses, Beckett.. are located with smaller dealers who mainly sell small stuff and modern towards the back wall - some have locations that literally face the wall - who did they tick off?
* auction houses like Memory Lane and Huggins and Scott have some nice pieces for their next auctions - no sign of Heritage unless my vision stinks.
* I have mainly purchased from one area - group of dealers next to PWCC - Card Country with Jeff Foy and Luckiest Man with Brady Hill. IMO more high end stuff in this two table section of the room (1700 row) than most of the other tables combined. Will post photos later when not inside the convention since they won't load with their Atari level technology here. Card Country has several high end Clemente rookies, PSA 8 and 9 Mantles from several years, Aaron rookies, Gretzky, Jordan's... Picked up several cards for my Mantle run plus a sweet Banks rookie and some Jackie Robinson cards for the little guy.
* Pre war stuff next door at Brady's table (Luckiest Man) is unreal, and several cards are making their way out of here - bought so,e T206 cards which I had no plan on doing but they were too nice to pass up.
* Location is not bad and proximity to hotels is good and obviously lots to do at night - bars, Boardwalk, casinos(heard this part second hand)
BBCE has a huge display with some great stuff and inventory looks strong in unopened as well as graded cards. Several boxes from 1974-1977 drawing interest.
In PSA line trying to sub some stuff - painfully slow right now. Typed this whole thing standing here and still halfway home
Pictures to come as soon as I can.
Bosox1976