@blurryface said:
a few years back, went on a stretch where i put snipes of $1002 on any 86 bonds tiffany 10s that were being auctioned off. think i accumulated 4 or 5 of them. just checked in on what this card is doing now. and hot dayum. when did this happen?
bonds and clemens (and mcgwire for that matter) have been going up for a year or two. you were fortunate to get some psa 10 tiffany bonds. the tiffany rookies are top for those guys. Mcgwire is already a 5 figure card. clemens just had one sell for $9k. the only other would be bonds 87 opc in a psa 10 those are very highly sought after.
Well it’s that time of year again where I predict that next week Roger Clemens and Barry bonds will make the Hall of Fame. … And Tim will predict that they won’t make it in and probably be right once again this year😀
I also predict that if Bonds and Clemens don’t make it in that no one will make it in, and that’s a little bit sad.
I hate to break it to you, but neither are getting in. They have the Pete Rose syndrome. As a Pirates fan and a Bonds fan, I want Barry Lamar to get in even though he would go in as a Giant. The start of the 1998 season both were 1st ballot HOFers but both had to touch the "juice".
Here's the updated ballot for 2021, which is very similar from a year ago and both BB and RC finished at 60%
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY IT SAYS IT RIGHT THERE ON THE WALL" - JACKIE MOON
Last two on VCP were $10,000 and $8100. I don't consider those amounts similar. Agree with the difficulty of finding it in 10, but didn't expect a sixfold increase in less than a year.
At this point it honestly doesn't even matter if they're hall of farmers or not when it comes to the value of their cards.
Players like Clemens and Bonds are so famous and so iconic to their era their hall of fame admittance would likely not drive up their prices all that much.
To put it in perspective, look at the 1984 fleer update set:
Kirby Puckett, hall of famer selling for significantly less than Roger Clemens
@daltex said:
Last two on VCP were $10,000 and $8100. I don't consider those amounts similar. Agree with the difficulty of finding it in 10, but didn't expect a sixfold increase in less than a year.
Thanks for correcting me, I thought they were in the 12-18k range. That is a nice increase for sure.
Well another disappointing Hall of Fame vote passes, but at least I was able to pick up this bonds relatively inexpensively because of it this week.
I started my bonds in Clemens collection because I thought they would make the Hall of Fame and the price of their cards would go up, at least I haven’t been completely wrong 😀
I admire the dedication of putting ones self on a firing line. And putting ones wallet there as well.
If we based HOF on what fans wanted they ( Bonds/Clemens) along with Mac would be shoe ins. Sadly its never the case.
How anyone can equate one method of cheating to be less evil than another is what galls me about the whole deal. It's okay to cheat , and be known for it (spitters/ball docs); it's okay to cheat via various other methods ( sign stealing / ball changes/ humidity changes etc) and get caught, & it's okay to take drugs ( can name 31 HOF who took " drugs" to relax) = to beat or cheat on one's wife, etc etc = and yet we draw the line somehow on the steroid problem.
People can put constraints on anything. The minute the Baseball Hall and those idiot writers changed its whole purpose= to honor each generations greats, and inserted that morality clause, the Hall lost its ORIGINAL purpose.
They need to go look at what Hockey and football do. I don't see anyone being booted there and many of them have criminal records and unsavory pasts.
I blame the Hall of Fame directors for this. Last group of moralists I'd want deciding my fate is writers.
@jeffv96masters said:
I admire the dedication of putting ones self on a firing line. And putting ones wallet there as well.
If we based HOF on what fans wanted they ( Bonds/Clemens) along with Mac would be shoe ins. Sadly its never the case.
How anyone can equate one method of cheating to be less evil than another is what galls me about the whole deal. It's okay to cheat , and be known for it (spitters/ball docs); it's okay to cheat via various other methods ( sign stealing / ball changes/ humidity changes etc) and get caught, & it's okay to take drugs ( can name 31 HOF who took " drugs" to relax) = to beat or cheat on one's wife, etc etc = and yet we draw the line somehow on the steroid problem.
People can put constraints on anything. The minute the Baseball Hall and those idiot writers changed its whole purpose= to honor each generations greats, and inserted that morality clause, the Hall lost its ORIGINAL purpose.
They need to go look at what Hockey and football do. I don't see anyone being booted there and many of them have criminal records and unsavory pasts.
I blame the Hall of Fame directors for this. Last group of moralists I'd want deciding my fate is writers.
My opinion .
Jeff
I'm not interested in getting into a big debate here, but I disagree with you completely with the exception regarding Clemens.
Bonds (and Rose) should never get in, going by the standards established by the MLB/HOF years ago. While you and many others disagree, I do not think it's a "shoe in" at all. There have been several polls here asking the same thing and I don't remember any "shoe ins".
Clemens I am not so sure on, he never failed a test, while I suspect he used, that's not proof. Zits on his back are not proof either.
My dad used to say "if you don't get caught, you're not cheating".
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Clemens should be in the HOF. If you look at his stats, there's no evidence that he did anything to enhance his performance. His physical appearance didn't change much, either. Keeping him out of the HOF based on the word of some nobody is just wrong.
On the other hand, Bonds should never be in the HOF and all his bogus records should be removed from the books. After his 1999 injury, his stats went crazy. His physical appearance went from normal to freakish. That pumkinhead of his was irrefutable evidence that he was using steroids.
Both had less than 62% of the vote last year, so there's no way they get elected this year. Maybe in 20 years, baseball's veterans committee will elect them, but I doubt it.
@rtimmer said:
Good news I predict Bonds and Clemens will soon be Hall of Famers!
I believe they will get in at some point. It looks like the steroid era is being reconciled as many players were doing it, testing was not consistent, and certain rules were not in place or applied. Now there are some testing standards and rules in place, I suppose. Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire and Clemens will just be judged on their baseball performance. There was a hold on players with steroid or suspected steroid use, but that looks like it is going to the wayside. I am not saying this is a good or bad thing, just where it appears to be heading.
The current iteration of the Veterans committee have 8 players to choose from. Schilling seems to be the logical choice to be next since he got over 70% last time on the BBWAA ballot. I think there will be a split between those that want to put in Mattingly and Murphy vs. those who want to put in Clemens and Bonds. They will all get in eventually, but it's a very crowded field right now.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
@Raptormaniacs said:
Can you imagine Ben Johnson being rewarded for his track achievements? That would be laughable…..Same goes for ALL cheaters (any sport).
OK. It's silly to have a hall of fame that includes Gaylord Perry but not Clemens.
@Raptormaniacs said:
Can you imagine Ben Johnson being rewarded for his track achievements? That would be laughable…..Same goes for ALL cheaters (any sport).
OK. It's silly to have a hall of fame that includes Gaylord Perry but not Clemens.
Totally agree and hope this is the year that Clemens gets recognized
@craig44 said:
I am thinking with the makeup of the committee, Fred Mcgriff will be a shoe-in!!
It’s an interesting committee with a lot of people that played through the steroid era so that could be good for both Bonds and Clemens chances. We shall soon see 🤞
16 votes: McGriff
8 votes: Don Mattingly
7 votes: Curt Schilling
6 votes: Dale Murphy
Fewer than four votes: Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Rafael Palmeiro
Comments
bonds and clemens (and mcgwire for that matter) have been going up for a year or two. you were fortunate to get some psa 10 tiffany bonds. the tiffany rookies are top for those guys. Mcgwire is already a 5 figure card. clemens just had one sell for $9k. the only other would be bonds 87 opc in a psa 10 those are very highly sought after.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Well it’s that time of year again where I predict that next week Roger Clemens and Barry bonds will make the Hall of Fame. … And Tim will predict that they won’t make it in and probably be right once again this year😀
I also predict that if Bonds and Clemens don’t make it in that no one will make it in, and that’s a little bit sad.
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
I hate to break it to you, but neither are getting in. They have the Pete Rose syndrome. As a Pirates fan and a Bonds fan, I want Barry Lamar to get in even though he would go in as a Giant. The start of the 1998 season both were 1st ballot HOFers but both had to touch the "juice".
Here's the updated ballot for 2021, which is very similar from a year ago and both BB and RC finished at 60%
Is this real?
https://ebay.com/itm/1987-O-Pee-Chee-OPC-320-Barry-Bonds-RC-Rookie-PSA-10-GEM-MINT-034-CRAZY-RARE-034-/373428880945?item=373428880945&ViewItem=&nma=true&si=9KfIJ0kLsT%252F9whlhTWrODmCBrno%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
2 others sold for similar amounts within the last few months. That OPC card is typically very off center, it’s a condition sensitive card.
Last two on VCP were $10,000 and $8100. I don't consider those amounts similar. Agree with the difficulty of finding it in 10, but didn't expect a sixfold increase in less than a year.
At this point it honestly doesn't even matter if they're hall of farmers or not when it comes to the value of their cards.
Players like Clemens and Bonds are so famous and so iconic to their era their hall of fame admittance would likely not drive up their prices all that much.
To put it in perspective, look at the 1984 fleer update set:
Kirby Puckett, hall of famer selling for significantly less than Roger Clemens
Thanks for correcting me, I thought they were in the 12-18k range. That is a nice increase for sure.
The 1987 Bonds OPC PSA 10 is a monster card. I can see this card hover in the 25-30K range later this year.
The 1987 0PC is an awesomely rare card, but for my money 1986 topps traded Tiffany is the best route to go for my money.
Cross your fingers for Tuesday but don’t get your hopes up!
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
Well another disappointing Hall of Fame vote passes, but at least I was able to pick up this bonds relatively inexpensively because of it this week.
I started my bonds in Clemens collection because I thought they would make the Hall of Fame and the price of their cards would go up, at least I haven’t been completely wrong 😀
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
I admire the dedication of putting ones self on a firing line. And putting ones wallet there as well.
If we based HOF on what fans wanted they ( Bonds/Clemens) along with Mac would be shoe ins. Sadly its never the case.
How anyone can equate one method of cheating to be less evil than another is what galls me about the whole deal. It's okay to cheat , and be known for it (spitters/ball docs); it's okay to cheat via various other methods ( sign stealing / ball changes/ humidity changes etc) and get caught, & it's okay to take drugs ( can name 31 HOF who took " drugs" to relax) = to beat or cheat on one's wife, etc etc = and yet we draw the line somehow on the steroid problem.
People can put constraints on anything. The minute the Baseball Hall and those idiot writers changed its whole purpose= to honor each generations greats, and inserted that morality clause, the Hall lost its ORIGINAL purpose.
They need to go look at what Hockey and football do. I don't see anyone being booted there and many of them have criminal records and unsavory pasts.
I blame the Hall of Fame directors for this. Last group of moralists I'd want deciding my fate is writers.
My opinion .
Jeff
Well it’s that time of year again, I am pretty sure that both Bonds and Clemens will make the Hall of Fame this year!
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
I am in hopes they both make it, but doubtful. both are hanging at around 80% and have only gained 2 votes over last year at this point.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm not interested in getting into a big debate here, but I disagree with you completely with the exception regarding Clemens.
Bonds (and Rose) should never get in, going by the standards established by the MLB/HOF years ago. While you and many others disagree, I do not think it's a "shoe in" at all. There have been several polls here asking the same thing and I don't remember any "shoe ins".
Clemens I am not so sure on, he never failed a test, while I suspect he used, that's not proof. Zits on his back are not proof either.
My dad used to say "if you don't get caught, you're not cheating".
Clemens should be in the HOF. If you look at his stats, there's no evidence that he did anything to enhance his performance. His physical appearance didn't change much, either. Keeping him out of the HOF based on the word of some nobody is just wrong.
On the other hand, Bonds should never be in the HOF and all his bogus records should be removed from the books. After his 1999 injury, his stats went crazy. His physical appearance went from normal to freakish. That pumkinhead of his was irrefutable evidence that he was using steroids.
Both had less than 62% of the vote last year, so there's no way they get elected this year. Maybe in 20 years, baseball's veterans committee will elect them, but I doubt it.
Good news I predict Bonds and Clemens will soon be Hall of Famers!
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
I believe they will get in at some point. It looks like the steroid era is being reconciled as many players were doing it, testing was not consistent, and certain rules were not in place or applied. Now there are some testing standards and rules in place, I suppose. Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire and Clemens will just be judged on their baseball performance. There was a hold on players with steroid or suspected steroid use, but that looks like it is going to the wayside. I am not saying this is a good or bad thing, just where it appears to be heading.
The current iteration of the Veterans committee have 8 players to choose from. Schilling seems to be the logical choice to be next since he got over 70% last time on the BBWAA ballot. I think there will be a split between those that want to put in Mattingly and Murphy vs. those who want to put in Clemens and Bonds. They will all get in eventually, but it's a very crowded field right now.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
i sure hope so. we will find out in about 3 weeks or so
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
its pretty silly to have a hall of fame that includes jack morris and jim kaat and no roger clemens
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Can you imagine Ben Johnson being rewarded for his track achievements? That would be laughable…..Same goes for ALL cheaters (any sport).
OK. It's silly to have a hall of fame that includes Gaylord Perry but not Clemens.
Totally agree and hope this is the year that Clemens gets recognized
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
I believe it is this weekend, Dec. 4th, that the committee gathers to vote. does that mean we will hear by next week?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The results of the Contemporary Baseball Era Committee vote will be announced live on MLB Network’s “MLB Tonight” at 8 p.m. ET on December 4.
I am thinking with the makeup of the committee, Fred Mcgriff will be a shoe-in!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It’s an interesting committee with a lot of people that played through the steroid era so that could be good for both Bonds and Clemens chances. We shall soon see 🤞
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
Nope and not even close
yep unanimous
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Excellent ! Crime Dog..
Just say no to drugs (Bonds/Rocket, etc).. yep, not even close.
16 votes: McGriff
8 votes: Don Mattingly
7 votes: Curt Schilling
6 votes: Dale Murphy
Fewer than four votes: Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Rafael Palmeiro
really happy for the Crime Dog!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Congrats to Fred McGriff. I always felt if he would have retired with 500 HR's instead of 493, he would have been in long time ago.