My Clemens and Bonds HOF collection

rtimmer

I didn't want to hijack the Clemens thread. Clemens future prospects thread but in it I said:
"Last year both picked up about 8% of the vote and if that could be sustained it would take them 4 of their 6 years remaining to make it. With the weak '17 class and 2018-20 only having 1 first ballot shoe in per year I see it happening within 4 years. It would be much easier with 15 years but despite the rule change I think it's still a safe bet.

Speaking of which I will put my money so to speak behind this idea. I will try to build the greatest Clemens unopened pack collection out there and try to win the 1984 Fleer update and 1986 Topps Tiffany traded best registry set awards by the year they are inducted!"

rtimmer

And here's the Bonds section

ThoseBackPages

Fantastic!

Stone193

Nice cards.



Not sure how everyone feels.



Just passing on what I've read by some - eventually they'll decide to have great players inducted under some kind of * and take their place in the HOF.

rtimmer

I hope you're correct. My thought in this project is that both will make the HOF and their cards will increase significantly in value. And if I had to choose only one of those two to come true it would be the latter!

I also predict someone already in the HOF gets confirmed as having a past steroid positive test and that would make their entry a little easier too.

lwehlers

great looking cards! I have a bonds fleer psa 10 and a 84 fleer psa 8 in Clemens. I would like a Clemens nine but the whole steroid cloud that hangs over both players make me not want to spend any more on those guys.

jmmiller777

That 10 Cello is a toughie! Looks nice. I have dozens of those '87 with stars showing and none of them would grade past 7's or 8's. Very nice.

mb2005

Some people still love a PED user

Dpeck100

Nice cards!

I have to think that signed Bonds Tiffany is tough to find.

LarkinCollector

Agreed with others, really nice stuff!

Is the HOF becoming less relevant? There are so many people willing to collect Shoeless Joe and Rose, treating them like HOFers regardless of induction status, I have to think the top tier PED users will enjoy similar collectability. Even if they don't collect the specific player, I've seen others augment the 'official' HOF RC sets with Jackson/Rose. I think Bonds and Clemens will be treated similarly even if they don't make it in.

ThoseBackPages

WOW that 85T Rack with Schmitty, Roger AND Puckett on top!

BPorter26

Great cards, I do love the TT auto Bonds. I hope you don't mind me posting my Bonds cards? I definitely do not want to take away from your thread.

rtimmer

Originally posted by: BPorter26
Great cards, I do love the TT auto Bonds. I hope you don't mind me posting my Bonds cards? I definitely do not want to take away from your thread.
]

Yes by all means everyone feel free to post your favorite Bonds and Clemens rookie. I love your Fleer cello (I have one around here too I need to post) and even more the signed red flip. I never understand why folks get blue flips of nice condition modern cards.

spanky74

Blue flips autos are $10 while red flip autos cost $25 would be my guess.

rtimmer

Originally posted by: spanky74
Blue flips autos are $10 while red flip autos cost $25 would be my guess.

The extra money is worth it! But sometimes you have to take what you can get:

rtimmer

Mail day from BBCE

and the Clemens collection gets a little bigger.

Brian48

Nice. Was a pretty rabid Clemens collector myself a while back. A personal favorite of mine is the '91 Topps Desert Shield Clemens. Before I quite collecting altogether in '07, I had acquired two PSA 10s, one BGS 9.5, and numerous grades below that. The '91 OPC in PSA 10 still alludes me though. When I last checked, there was only one graded in PsA 10, but that was a few years ago.

Got everything stashed away now. Not really interested in the hobby any more, but I made a promise to myself that I'd dig everything up if he ever makes it into Cooperstown.

rtimmer

Got a few more:

rtimmer

@rtimmer said:

"Last year both picked up about 8% of the vote and if that could be sustained it would take them 4 of their 6 years remaining to make it. With the weak '17 class and 2018-20 only having 1 first ballot shoe in per year I see it happening within 4 years. It would be much easier with 15 years but despite the rule change I think it's still a safe bet.

Speaking of which I will put my money so to speak behind this idea. I will try to build the greatest Clemens unopened pack collection out there and try to win the 1984 Fleer update and 1986 Topps Tiffany traded best registry set awards by the year they are inducted!"

So I will try to post some of my picks as I go along the journey:

I'm predicting a better than 10% jump in voting this yr for Clemens and Bonds. With Selig getting in and Bagwell and Rodriguez doing well I think the path for them improved significantly. I think they can't beat 55% this year and get it within 2 years then agree or disagree??

Brian48

Some nice stuff here. I haven't collected in years now, but at the time I "quit" back in '06 or '07, I amassed a pretty solid Clemens collection with almost 1250+ cards or so, many 10s, 9s, numbered and auto cards, etc..

For personal reason, this is my favorite.

I believe I have two 10s, maybe one 9, and a boatload of 8s. Overpaid for all of them obviously, but at the time they gave me great joy. Too bad everything tanked.

Very fond of these as well. Don't have a pic, but I believe I have a stub for Clemens' 2nd start and win somewhere as well somewhere.

Brian48

Sorry, from top down:

1st 20k game
2nd 20k game
3000th k
4000th k and 300th win

rtimmer

@rtimmer said:
I didn't want to hijack the Clemens thread. Clemens future prospects thread but in it I said:
"Last year both picked up about 8% of the vote and if that could be sustained it would take them 4 of their 6 years remaining to make it. With the weak '17 class and 2018-20 only having 1 first ballot shoe in per year I see it happening within 4 years. It would be much easier with 15 years but despite the rule change I think it's still a safe bet.

Speaking of which I will put my money so to speak behind this idea. I will try to build the greatest Clemens unopened pack collection out there and try to win the 1984 Fleer update and 1986 Topps Tiffany traded best registry set awards by the year they are inducted!"

Well another HOF class is in and time to revisit my prediction at the start of the thread. 2017 was actually a great year for both Bonds and Clemens. They each picked up another 9% reaching the 54% percent level and most importantly this year Bagwell, Rodriguez, and Selig all negatively tied to the steroids scandal made it in. I actually like the odds of them getting in a year ahead of my initial 4 year prediction.

Now to my efforts to collect some cool items that will increase in value. This past year I completed the first 1986 Topps Tiffany set and also finished an all PSA 10 1984 Fleer Update set. The Bonds Tiffany Traded cards have increased nicely this year we will see how things go as they continue their climb to Cooperstown.

divecchia

Congrats on finishing the 1986 Topps Tiffany set and also finished an all PSA 10 1984 Fleer Update set and getting a Registry badge for both sets.

I too agree that Bonds and Clemens will get in before their eligibility expires.

Good luck with your collection, but try to have fun with it and don't worry so much about the value of the cards. If collecting those players makes you happy, you can't put a price on that.

Happy Collecting,
Donato

jeffv96masters

Nice pickups so far !! I'll suggest to start picking up his Leaf and OPC pack versions BEFORE any Topps/Donruss /Fleer. I've found they are much harder to find.

@Brian48 said:
Nice. Was a pretty rabid Clemens collector myself a while back.

Ya don't say

rtimmer

10> @divecchia said:

Congrats on finishing the 1986 Topps Tiffany set and also finished an all PSA 10 1984 Fleer Update set and getting a Registry badge for both sets.

I too agree that Bonds and Clemens will get in before their eligibility expires.

Good luck with your collection, but try to have fun with it and don't worry so much about the value of the cards. If collecting those players makes you happy, you can't put a price on that.

Happy Collecting,
Donato

Thanks, for the Tiffany set it took me 3 tries to give up trying to submit and get 10s for all the cards. Just such a tough set I will say it will never be complete in all 10s.

And yeah the Bonds OPC is a tough card for an 87. I don't much like the look of it though and think on a whole the Clemens rookies cards are much better looking than Bonds. I really only his 1986 topps traded so I pick up those when I can.

rtimmer

Picked up my first bat today. I wish Clemens bats were easier to find but so glad to have found this one:

rtimmer

Picked this one up to add to the unopened collection

rtimmer

rtimmer

@grote15 said:

@rtimmer said:
Bonds and Clemens are showing nicely in the voting again. I have been predicting a 2020 induction but they are actually gaining enough I think next year might be in play especially if Thome and Vlad make it in this year.

Neither Bonds or Clemens have gained any votes from 2017 with the ballots cast thus far from returning voters. Where they are picking up support is from new voters, with all 9 new voters voting for Clemens and 8 of 9 voting for Bonds. This seems consistent with the notion that the new voters are less likely to hold PED use against these players.

Yeah they both need about 90 votes or 30 a year to make my 2020 prediction. I figure new voters are good for 15 votes so we need 15 votes from the returners. Of course they have 2 more years of cushion to make it in after my prediction so as long as they keep picking up new voters I still see them both as a lock to eventually make it.

Glad they won't make it this year though still working on my collection!

rtimmer

Well a bad day/year for the HOF voting of Bond and Clemens but another great year for collecting and their values rising. Let's hope 2019 makes up a little more ground to get my prediction back on track.

craig44

They both will eventually get in.

grote15

@craig44 said:
They both will eventually get in.

I thought so at one point, but now I'm beginning to think they may not. The next couple of years will be interesting to see if they can break the 65% barrier. They have just 4 years to gain approximately 18% of the vote.

rtimmer

And the march to HOF 2020 continues on. Hard to see probably but Picked up another 26 Clemens back showing 85 topps rookie racks. Good luck Roger!!

Ironmanfan

IMF

Stone193

Wow - that's a lotta racks!

rtimmer

@Ironmanfan said:

IMF

Now that's a cool modern card I've never seen. Thanks for sharing!

rtimmer

Looks like the Clemens Tiffany card has been picking up steam lately doubling in the past yr. Cudos to everyone who followed and went against the advice of Crisser at the time:
March 6, 2018: $5100
Feb 26, 2018: $4350
Feb 26, 2018: $4299
Feb 11, 2018: $5527
July 19, 2017: $3050
July 12, 2017: $3150
June 18, 2017: $2825
June 5, 2017: $3077
Dec 28, 2016: $2325
Dec 8, 2016: $2325

rtimmer

Picked up a pair of record breaking and final home run season spikes of the all time King! Can't wait for another year of voting. Good luck Barry

stwainfan

Great cards. I think Bonds and Clemens should both be in the HOF.

Stone193

Wow! Congratulations on the Bonds spikes Ryan.

What kind of authentication came with them? Just curious.

With time, as I said a few years ago on this thread - Bonds and a few others will be in the hall - qualifier? Perhaps?

craig44

those bonds cleats are great!! did you get them on Barry's site? I have looked there before and he sells quite a few interesting items.

rtimmer

@Stone193 said:
Wow! Congratulations on the Bonds spikes Ryan.

What kind of authentication came with them? Just curious.

With time, as I said a few years ago on this thread - Bonds and a few others will be in the hall - qualifier? Perhaps?

thanks, I was pleased to get them and of course the theme of this thread is that I believe Bonds and Clemens both get in before their time is up. I also think from an investment standpoint whether they get in or not their items will increase so it's a relatively low risk bet to add more.

The spikes of course are worth significantly more if worn for his last games and I'm not sure how to prove that or even to guess how many road spikes he wore that season, maybe we never know for sure.

Barry was kind enough to sign an affidavit for the authenticity too.

rtimmer

@rtimmer said:
I didn't want to hijack the Clemens thread. Clemens future prospects thread but in it I said:
"Last year both picked up about 8% of the vote and if that could be sustained it would take them 4 of their 6 years remaining to make it. With the weak '17 class and 2018-20 only having 1 first ballot shoe in per year I see it happening within 4 years. It would be much easier with 15 years but despite the rule change I think it's still a safe bet.

Speaking of which I will put my money so to speak behind this idea. I will try to build the greatest Clemens unopened pack collection out there and try to win the 1984 Fleer update and 1986 Topps Tiffany traded best registry set awards by the year they are inducted!"

Well it's that time of year... No not Christmas, it's Bonds and Clemens HOF tracking time! Looks like they are around 72% and I'd be thrilled if they ended up with anything over 70%. I'm still sticking by my original 2020 Hall class prediction.

rtimmer

A couple more adds

sushihotwings

Just checked out Barry Bonds website. Smart of him to control the sale of his items. Nobody else takes a cut. Downside I guess is fewer eyeballs. Not much advertising unlike the auction houses. Interesting way to do business and as long as your hands work you can always autograph more items to put up for sale. The premium items are the game worn items I would imagine for sure

grote15

Bonds and Clemens were in the low 70s of the vote in early going last year, too, before settling back into the high 50s of the final HOF vote. This is a weak ballot, though, with Rivera and probably Halladay and Martinez as the only sure bets.

craig44

according to the HOF tracker, the last update before the official announcement for 2018, Bonds had 64.4% of the tracked votes. he ended up at 56.4% for a -8% shift between tracked votes and actual. Clemens also had 64.4% tracked votes and 57.3% actual result for a -7.1% shift. the last couple of elections had between a -15-20% voter differential between tracked and actual results. it seems the trend is narrowing and the tracked vote is getting closer to the final result. If that trend holds, I expect both players to end up in the lower 60% range this year and getting in before they leave the ballot.

grote15

The vote percentages often decline over time as the earlier ballots tend to vote for more players than the later ballots. The tracked ballots are simply those voters who cast their ballots earlier.

Both Bonds and Clemens have just 4 more chances at induction on the initial ballot so they will need more than just the couple of percentage points gains they've seen over the past couple of years to get in.

rtimmer

AGREED. An 8% gain this yr would be huge!

craig44

Nice autos. Those cards were from the heyday of my childhood.

rtimmer

Well on the New Year’s Eve lets give Barry some love and well wishes on moving up in the hall of fame voting!