Always re-grade before selling....take my word for it
Proofmorgan
Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭✭
As you may know I enjoy collecting very original and a lot of time OGH coinage. I've sold about 30% of
My collection recently to make room for early gold. Here are examples that I've seen in the past month (I sold 2 months ago). I sold my examples on GC and the said coins sold/are selling on GC:
1860 Half Dime MS66 CAC (older holder with series number,etc)
-Found 2 weeks later in 67+ CAC
-Profit missed $2500
1908 $2.5 MS64 (Graded from raw)
-Found a couple months later in 65+ CAC
-Profit Missed $2700
Antietam MS65CAC OGH
- on GC now in 66+ CAC already more than I sold for with 3 days left.
Lynchburg MS65 CAC OGH
-on GC now in 66 CAC passed what I sold for with 3 days left.
There are the examples I know of so far. I haven't really looked much. These are all green CAC with the exception of the $2.5 that wasn't submitted. I've tried to sell as is to preserve the OGH for the next guy and for the hobby. Looks like you have to play the game and throw the hobby out the window to keep your shirt.
My collection recently to make room for early gold. Here are examples that I've seen in the past month (I sold 2 months ago). I sold my examples on GC and the said coins sold/are selling on GC:
1860 Half Dime MS66 CAC (older holder with series number,etc)
-Found 2 weeks later in 67+ CAC
-Profit missed $2500
1908 $2.5 MS64 (Graded from raw)
-Found a couple months later in 65+ CAC
-Profit Missed $2700
Antietam MS65CAC OGH
- on GC now in 66+ CAC already more than I sold for with 3 days left.
Lynchburg MS65 CAC OGH
-on GC now in 66 CAC passed what I sold for with 3 days left.
There are the examples I know of so far. I haven't really looked much. These are all green CAC with the exception of the $2.5 that wasn't submitted. I've tried to sell as is to preserve the OGH for the next guy and for the hobby. Looks like you have to play the game and throw the hobby out the window to keep your shirt.
Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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Comments
I do that as a matter of course with nearly everyone's consignment coins I handle. And, it's win-win when they upgrade including, at a minimum, higher commissions for me.
Wondercoin.
There's upside/downside.
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The people that buy these and take the shots have plenty of coins that don't work as well. I watched guys sell their "no works" for big losses.
There's upside/downside.
Agreed. People usually don't pay attention to the downgrades or coins sold for a loss.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Shows how subjective grading is....no consistency at all.
Yes, after 30 years things have changed.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Cheers, RickO
Ian would have gladly submitted the coins for potential upgrade had you requested it. I personally like owning the coins I have in holders that are now clearly undergraded, but if I were to put them in auction format, I would upgrade them first. Especially in a format like this where most bids are from the internet, where they cant see how nice the coin really is, and plus lots of folks buy based on the new grade label anyhow.
some of the upgrades you personally may not have gotten yourself, without the help of somebody else. Also Robbie brings up good point, that I am sure there are some that miss and don't get mentioned.
If it's any consolation, I think you have a discerning eye for quality!
My YouTube Channel
I say this because I have plenty of old holder coins and my play is to price them high instead of cracking someday.
Shows how subjective grading is....no consistency at all.
Yes, after 30 years things have changed.
And how will they change in the future?
So my takeaway is that don't let OGH go to auction and let rip. Don't we see all the time dealers simply asking more for these old holdered coins anyway? Why not list them online with a higher grades price first, say 66 money for a 65 or just under a 66 level and see if there us any action first. Even consigning with a well known dealer would cost less than losing 2k.
I say this because I have plenty of old holder coins and my play is to price them high instead of cracking someday.
Granted, I say this knowing full well that the likelihood of coins still residing in OGH are prob not upgrade potential, but there are still plenty of known and unknown older collections that have been put away that surface from time to time.
The most overgraded dollars I have ever seen are in OGH. At great cost to me, I once sent in 28 OGH Morgans for reconsideration, and not a single one went up.
That does not mean there are not some great coins in those holders, as we see above. But in general, they are overgraded by today's standards, especially DMPL, as I preach all the time.
To the OP - you obviously have a great eye. I'm sure the coins all sold for premiums to the grade, so hopefully you got some profit in addition to the joy of owning quality pieces.
Rob
Successful Trades with: Coincast, MICHAELDIXON
Successful Purchases from: Manorcourtman, Meltdown
Personally, I have always liked the nostalgia of the 1st Gen OGHs. Collect as many nice ones as I can. Just wish I could take a decent picture of them!
Are you talking Rattlers? If so I agree. The ones commonly referred to as Old Green Holders are often overgraded.
Perhaps I am the only one who did not know the difference between Regrade and Reconsideration
"• REGRADE: For a coin previously graded by PCGS you feel might be worthy of a higher grade, submit coin in the holder. The coin will be removed from the PCGS holder and regarded. If the coin grades lower, the terms of the PCGS guarantee will apply. For full discloser of the PCGS guarantee, visit www.PCGS.com/Guarantee.
• RECONSIDERATION: Use the Reconsideration service if you would like to have your coin regraded without being removed from its current PCGS holder. Minimum grades are not accepted. Select one of the four options for Reconsideration service. Only one option is allowed per submission form....
I am tired of fighting this software with it's error codes...here is the form link for more info;
http://www.pcgs.com/submissionform/usaform.pdf
ERROR: Sorry, you must be logged in to access the requested object.
Error Code: 104
ERROR: One of the values in the url has not passed validation.
Error Code: 113
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Well - at least you have 70% of your collection left that you can send in for regrading if you need to sell. Sounds like you have some great coins!
This; and we can probably assume that you kept back your favorite 70% of the coins, so you still have the nicest coins, and sold the ones you were willing to part with, and probably also made some money on them (though you might have left some on the table) nobody ever went broke taking a profit.
And, also, +1 on this:
The people that buy these and take the shots have plenty of coins that don't work as well. I watched guys sell their "no works" for big losses.
There's upside/downside.
Agreed. People usually don't pay attention to the downgrades or coins sold for a loss.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Grading is evolving. That is what they tell you at the TPGS's. I believe anyone here knows that. Over the years commercial grading has become more liberal. This will continue. There are many instances of this that are common knowledge. Even coins going from AU to MS-64.
I have heard there was even a famous case of a Proof 20c being sent several times to a TPGS receiving a 65 each time. It was sold raw for 66 money and turned up later slabbed as a PR-68 by the same TPGS! I heard this and other instances caused the FTC to become involved in the coin business.
So what I took all this time to write: I have several Cam Pr Franklins graded by TPGS as 64's back in 1987. Those coins ARE NOW considered PR-67+ by everyone I show them to. That has nothing to do with PCGS, NGC grading inconsistency as they were PR-64 AT THE TIME they were graded.
The OP bought quality coins and held them. That is usually a formula for success. Unfortunately, the standards changed - hard lesson.
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If it's any consolation, I think you have a discerning eye for quality!
a keen eye does help in matters like that. fwiw
The two I looked at on GC were not reconsiderations since they both had a newer cert#. Reconsider keeps the old number, which should also be a clue to you that a coin in a new holder with an old cert# will most likely never upgrade.
Hell, I used to be that way myself to some extent. But as I've "seasoned" as a collector, I'm paying less and less attention to grade, and more and more attention to eye appeal and overall beauty. I have 63s and 64s with eye appeal significantly better than a lot of 66s I see. I mean, there are times where I look at a 66 and say to myself, "How in the heck is THAT a 66?? If I submitted that coin it would come back 63."
And then a few years ago I experienced a situation that was almost beyond belief.
I have a coin in my collection that was submitted to a TPG four separate times for grading. Every single time it came back 64. But I was sure it was a 65. Well, I ended up sharing my displeasure about this situation with a dealer. The dealer told me to let him submit it and he asked me what grade I wanted it to be. I kinda looked at him funny and said something like, "You can't just pick a grade, you're at the mercy of the graders." So he says, "Trust me, what grade do you want it to be?" So I told him that I'd love it to be in a 66 holder (I chuckled out loud sarcastically to him about that) and then said I would "settle" for a 65 cuz that's what I think the coin truly is. Two months later, the coin comes back... in a 67 holder. Talk about an eye opener. It was then that I realized this whole grading thing is absolutely 100% a "GAME".
Since then I have shifted my focus from collecting coin grades and started collecting beautiful coins regardless of grade. And I've never been happier.
And then a few years ago I experienced a situation that was almost beyond belief.
I have a coin in my collection that was submitted to a TPG four separate times for grading. Every single time it came back 64. But I was sure it was a 65. Well, I ended up sharing my displeasure about this situation with a dealer. The dealer told me to let him submit it and he asked me what grade I wanted it to be. I kinda looked at him funny and said something like, "You can't just pick a grade, you're at the mercy of the graders." So he says, "Trust me, what grade do you want it to be?" So I told him that I'd love it to be in a 66 holder (I chuckled out loud sarcastically to him about that) and then said I would "settle" for a 65 cuz that's what I think the coin truly is. Two months later, the coin comes back... in a 67 holder. Talk about an eye opener. It was then that I realized this whole grading thing is absolutely 100% a "GAME".
-What is the coin and Cert#?
Also, it should be obvious that more skilled graders examine coins in faster tiers and the more expensive or special coins. That may add to differences of opinion from the same service.
Which do you think would garner a more positive result; regrading (cracked out and regraded) or reconsideration (regrade without cracking and reholdering if the results are positive)?
Reconsiderations decisions will always be more conservative. Simply because the call will be made through the holder, hiding rims and perfect visibility. Further, reconsideration upgrades involve a premium, unlike regrades.
The only time reconsiderations make sense is when the holder, or the sticker, is deemed important to keep if the coin doesn't upgrade.
Lance.
Ian had two beautiful seated quarters from and old collection in rattlers with gold CAC. A 1875 MS 65 and a 1872 PR66. I saw these coins at fun and they were delightful. They actually went for a bit less than I thought at $7700 and $8085 respectively after the juice. I had stayed out after a bad experience with some seated coins with market lately and decided not to bid on them.
These coins just sold tonight on GC cracked (a shame) and both
In 67 CAC holders at $6250 and $6520.
This person lost about $3000 not including the grading fees and shipping.....ouch!
Latin American Collection
Just like the economy, the coin market needs a little bit of gradeflation to keep the market going. Imagine what would happen if there was grading deflation... No coins are submitted, no incentive to buy and upgrade, and the whole market grinds to a halt. The important thing is that it is gradual and reasonably transparent.
But like the economy there is a limit of 70. What happens when it's reached? They can't just raise the debt ceiling.
"Always re-grade before selling....take my word for it "
I've tried the regrade thing. Had about 10 of the same coin, date, mint mark, grade and grading company. All spec's the same. Pulled the nicest of the bunch and cracked it and it came back a grade lower from the same company!!
So in my opinion rarely regrade before selling as it's not cheap and you have to hit the winner or loose mad money.
And I just don't agree with the topic.
"Always re-grade before selling....take my word for it "
I've tried the regrade thing. Had about 10 of the same coin, date, mint mark, grade and grading company. All spec's the same. Pulled the nicest of the bunch and cracked it and it came back a grade lower from the same company!!
So in my opinion rarely regrade before selling as it's not cheap and you have to hit the winner or loose mad money.
Why didn't you just send them in for regrade vs. cracking? Your risk/reward significantly changes in your situation.
Latin American Collection
And I cracked it because I thought it would have a better shot at an upgrade and with the leg work that there was no downside being of the best of the rest.
Live and learn.
Just like the economy, the coin market needs a little bit of gradeflation to keep the market going. Imagine what would happen if there was grading deflation... No coins are submitted, no incentive to buy and upgrade, and the whole market grinds to a halt. The important thing is that it is gradual and reasonably transparent.
But like the economy there is a limit of 70. What happens when it's reached? They can't just raise the debt ceiling.
No, but they can introduce the 100 point grading scale. So now everybody with a top pop 68 has to see if their 68 is better than the other 68's...
I suggest that you find such a dealer, and ask them if they would evaluate your coins and give you advice on the best way to liquidate the coins to get you the most money. The results may surprise you. Auctions with a big firm, auctions with Great Coins, having a dealer sell them for you on commission, and other possibilities exist. The dealer/agent could help you figure out which coins to leave in the current holders, and which to try for upgrades or crossovers, etc. You would work out a means of paying the dealer for their expertise, but in the long run it will pay off. The better yield from your selling should far surpass your payment for such a service.
I know of several top-notch dealers I would trust to do just what I propose. If you PM me I would be happy to share names with you through that route.