There are bad apples in everything that you do in life. I'm sure that there are dealers at coin shows that other dealers would like to see not be there just as there are attendees that dealers would just as soon not come to the show. But if you are a dealer at a show you should realize that there is going to be a large cross section of collectors that will be there and they may are may not be interested in what coins you have available. Don't run people off they may come back and be a buyer later.
How many high rollers do you see that just do not look the part? I bet a lot. Sam Walton loved to dress down and drive his old pickup to Wal-Mart just to see how he was treated.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
When I first started attending coin shows it didn't take long to realize I had to learn to ignore the behavior of a percentage of the dealers I ran across.
I consider the ability to instinctively ignore and avoid a$$hats to be the number one skill needed to experience the fun of coin shows and to maximize precious cointime.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I find it somewhat fascinating that, with all of your numismatic experience and credentials, you are asking if such a poor exchange has happened to other Board members. Dealers being rude to collectors and collectors being rude to dealers is commonplace and has been for decades. The fact that this seems to be new to you (as an individual) is a great commentary on how positive your experiences have been up to now.
Sadly, with some people in our hobby, civility is rarer than the items they collect.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
In reading the OP, I would believe the member was mistreated.... There are dealers like this
at shows... I have met a few over the years. Mostly, dealers are a great bunch of people and I look forward to meeting new dealers at shows. This particular situation could have been dealt with in several ways.... the OP chose his way. I would have done it differently. That does not mean the OP was wrong... we all deal with situations in our own way, at the time.
The one fact that is clear, is that there are distasteful people in all venues.... and, as the multitude of opinions here demonstrate... there are also those who will assume the authority of
judge, jury and execu tioner without having been part of the incident. Cheers, RickO
The type of thing happens in many areas where things are expensive. I try to establish common ground and knowledge by talking about the items and having an intelligent conversation. When the seller realizes that you are a potential buyer, then things go easier.
Originally posted by: RYK I would like to toss out one more possibility. Until recently, it did not occur to me, but I am convinced that there is a disproportionate number of people in the coin hobby with Asperger syndrome, on both sides of the table, and perhaps this is a partial explanation for the odd encounter today.
Interesting observation. I've read about other areas where there is a disproportionate number of people with Asperger's. Hadn't thought about it for the coin hobby before.
Has this ever happened to anyone else? Where a dealer just assumes because of your appearance, that you cannot afford something? To the point where they are rude to you and refuse to even discuss the item?
It is sad that it happened to you. Yes, I have had a dealer assume things about me because of my appearance. I have had other people make assumptions as well (car buying, etc).
I just don't let it get to me. Their loss. Even in numismatics, where there are more "hard to find" type of items, I will just write off dealers like that and not do business with them. I have my own moral compass.
Originally posted by: Rarestuff
Sadly it happened in front of my son - but fortunately as well. If he was not there, I would have been a lot more direct with the dealer and put him in his place. I do think I managed to embarrass him a little when I called him out. I did tell the show manager that I should be able to come to a show without the dealers treating me differently than other attendees, and he completely agreed. He asked me to send him an e-mail to document what happened, and hopefully they will ban the dealer from future shows.
The dealer is involved in other organizations in numismatics and I have not decided yet if I will complain to those groups. It was a public place, and so were his actions, and he should be held responsible for the public face he presents for the organizations he represents. If nothing else, despite his privately held personal beliefs, he must treat everyone equally in public events. And last time I checked - that is the law of the land too. He needs to know and use that legal and moral standard for his behavior. He hopefully learned today that he needs to be careful - because someone can turn out to be someone much different than he assumes.
Ummmm, yeah. I was on your side until around this part. A person is a person. Good or bad. If it is their business, then it is THEIR business. Running to tattle to the people in charge, because you weren't treated as you would want, and you took offense, is pretty childish, imho.
Did he physically harm you? No. Did he embarrass you? Yes.
Did he steal from you or rip you off? No.
That's something called life. And, if it were in front of my son, being done to me, I would state such to my son, and I would do it IN FRONT of the offending party...loudly.
As for whining that someone in public must treat everyone equally, and it is "the law", you are wrong. Pure and simple. Someone can choose to be as rude as they want or as nice as they want.....he didn't refuse you service and then offer the same item to someone else...he refused to sell to anyone as they were for his showing off (display) only, as you stated.
Like I said, I was on your side, initially, but as you decided to take things, imho, a bit overboard, I realized that you seem to have a chip on your shoulders and want to force others to "behave" the way you want or else you will do everything in your power to destroy them. Not cool. Just avoid dealers that you don't like, or don't like you. People are people, not machines.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
As a psychiatrist I see a lot of people and tons of pathology. But when I go to a coin show and people behave poorly, I just walk by those tables next time and write them off. Don't have the time or the energy to deal with fools when I am not working. The dealer lost your business whether he figures it out or not.
My rule of thumb with restaurants works here. If I have a real bad experience at a restaurant I normally do not complain but simply never go back. This way if they treat everyone the way they treated me they will probably go out of business losing their customers. If they stay in business than they probably just had a bad day. Bottom line---usually not worth arguing with anyone. They won't change and you stay happier.
I have to side with the OP on this one. I think I know the dealer he is referring to (not sure, but the MO is familiar, and I think I remember the medals in question). The dealer I am thinking of definitely profiles by race, and has done so loudly on several occasions. I agree with contacting the show promoter, even though nothing will be done, most likely.
As to "why make this post" brought up by several posters, why not? One of the major concerns for our hobby is its future, as the average age of collectors creeps up and fewer and fewer young numismatists appear. This type of dealer makes us all look bad in the eyes of many.
While I typically avoid confrontations at shows, I often wonder if this approach is empowering to the minority of jerks that seem to take delight in insulting the general public. Yes, they are few and far between, and yes, most will not change their ways no matter what is said to them, but silence is acquiescence.
Hope you feel better, OP. You actually have a better chance of producing change with this particular dealer because of your connections within your specialty. A few well-placed comments to other medal enthusiasts may do a world of good. Best of luck to you and your son.
well I think the out come would of been different if you would of answered his question and shared your knowledge on the medals you two would still be talking. I know dealers also go though a lot dealing with rude people as we all know. I would never go and complain to the show I would just walk off if it was that bad and if my son was at the age to understand I would use it as a tool to teach him. I get judged all the time and I judge people also it is instinct and we all use it from time to time. I was raised in the good old days when this would not even be a topic are skin was so thick it was hard to walk with all that extra height and that was down hill. As for your friend he probably approached him differently means how you wanted to see if you were profiled remember sometimes if you look for it you will find it. You are obviously very knowledgeable, you have money and love your boy life is good my friend. This is my opinion and if I have hurt someone's feeling in the making of this reply I apologize in advance be safe and be strong all.
Don't dispare plenty of gentleman dealers out there.
But in 40 years of Bourse walking I have been yelled at, ignored, insulted, refused to show coins, or sell coins ( why are they there?) Notebooks purposely thrown under my face to block my view into a Bourse case I have had many dealers get angry when I offered coins for sale to them ostensibly to intimidate me Into selling cheaply. I have a dozen top registry sets so my coins for sale are not low end. I have had dealers play shell games with coins I was buying from them, surprising me when I got coins back I was Not buying even across a Bourse table when I just handed them the coins to price for me.
On the other hand there some gentleman dealers happy to buy my coins, or learn from me realizing I know way more than they do in my specialty
Profiling? Let's not pull that card out just yet. He might have handled your friend differently simply because of the good and smart manner in which you responded and not because of his ethnicity- in other words the dealer is a jerk and your actions got that point across to him. Hopefully he will be called out strongly by the organization for his actions and be a better dealer for it.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Sorry to hear, they do not realize that they are the ambassadors to our hobby and that by taking such actions they are giving our hobby a black eye and that we are loosing collectors, which we cannot afford to do.
I wrote a book on Coin Collecting for the Next Generation, which I studied this subject, i.e. problems with some coin shows from a kids perspective. For example, I have my then 16 year old son $100 and asked him to go around the Baltimore coin show (300 dealers) and purchase Lincoln cents, I watched as two-thirds of the dealers refused to show him a coin, some were doing nothing, just sitting there. When I discussed this with the management of the show, and made suggestions such as a competition, voted by the public for the best kids dealer, then post their name at the next show. The head dealer said it was a bad idea because other dealers would become jealous. They did not get it. If a dealer helps my kid enjoy the show, I will do business with them. Of course, there are some great dealers out there and I have witnessed some very helpful to kids and go out of their way to help kids.
I have interviewed many senior YNs who had the same problem in viewing coins, and some were ready to quit. I interviewed many women who had the same problem. Old school and its just a business is a poor and invalid excuse for such behavior and it is killing our hobby in part.
I found the answer for kids anyway was smaller shows, such as Ocean City Coin Club, which has a high focus on helping kids had an incredible environment. I found other larger shows such as Central States and PAN also cared about kids and reputation, it goes from the top down, if the leaders care about reputation and the general environment being positive, and not just focused on receiving money for a table, they will address such situations. If not, find another show, and let them know of your intentions to find another show and not recommend their show to your coin friends. Its a small world in coins, word does get around. A show organizer might consider this and take action as if they loose collectors coming to the show, they will loose business and then the dealers.
I commend you on your patience, especially given your knowledge and expertise on the subject, I might not have been so nice. I would have probably left my son home at the next show, taken your friend with you and confronted him, ask why he showed your friend and not you, asked him if he knew about the coins, telling him of their history, asked him if he knew how by treating people like he did, he was giving the hobby a bad name...... maybe if he has a conscious, he might see his wrong doing and think twice the next time, especially knowing that you could have afforded the coins, and he lost your business. When I am doing lectures on coins to clubs and talking about kids, many of the old timers do not listen, till I bring up the financial consideration, that who will buy your coins if their is no next generation. By showing him he lost an opportunity to sell an expensive coin, it might hit a nerve toward his wallet.
There are still a great number of collectors and dealers out there who understand the essence of the hobby, the sharing of knowledge and information for the benefit of the hobby, it is a hobby, whether you are doing business or just pleasure, it should be enjoyable.
Originally posted by: Gazes My rule of thumb with restaurants works here. If I have a real bad experience at a restaurant I normally do not complain but simply never go back. This way if they treat everyone the way they treated me they will probably go out of business losing their customers. If they stay in business than they probably just had a bad day. Bottom line---usually not worth arguing with anyone. They won't change and you stay happier.
one thing to consider, not everything in life is a racial bias. this may be just an extension of a "this is not a democracy" concept. those that are so comfortable accepting it here should feel equally as comfortable whenever it is encountered.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
Teaching your child to "get even" when someone offends you is not the best course of action either. You both were wrong. I have done the same thing in my past and all we can hope to do is learn from it. Cheers!
It is possible that, even though he sounded like a jerk to you, that it was his way of trying to show off his knowledge. "do you know what they are?" may simply be his poor way of asking if he can tell you about them. As an expert in the field it would have been interesting to me to hear if there was anything about them I didn't know. Of course, as an expert again, I could choose to correct him on any errors of information, fill in missing attributes or history that was missed in his story, or just direct him to a publication that would clarify them for him. I think people in general are overly sensitive and looking to find a way to be insulted, whether by assuming that others are profiling, disrespecting, or insulting because our egos are getting in the way. I know I'm guilty of feeling other's prejudices on occasion. Your son is lucky to have such am outstanding mentor as yourself to learn about collecting coins. Show him also that, as the better man, you can forgive someone that doesn't live up to your standards and let it go. Your son had a great time, you too by extension, and he was totally oblivious to the prejudice you felt. The dealer might have been a jerk but so what? Engage him in a conversation or walk away.
This sort of thing has happened to me a few times.
The first time was at a show in New York City in the early 1970s. I was in my mid 20s and was wearing a bright red sports jacket with a tie. I asked a guy who behind the table of one of the up and coming coin firms at the time if I could see an 1800 half dime he had in his case.
"You can't afford it!" he snapped at me.
When it came to appearances he didn't have anything on me. He had long kinky hair and face full of stubble long before that look was fashionable. I could have seen one of the crusty old dealers of that era telling him the same thing he'd just said to me.
I just walked off and said to myself, "To 'HEQ' with him." Later I got know how his firm priced coins, and he was right. I couldn't afford what he was selling, but not for the reason that he assumed.
Even though I'm older with gray hair, I've heard that line thrown at me a couple of times. I guess those guys don't like my looks and don't know who I am.
When I was dealer I learned "Never judge a book by its cover." I once had a couple customers who worked in construction who had callused hands and did not dress like fashion plates. Both of them were ready to shell out several thousand dollars for the right Morgan dollar.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
To me, the best 'treat a customer bad' story was the one that
Jerry Cohen, of Kriesberg/Cohen, Beverly Hills, told me one
day, around 1973, when I went to lunch with my boss at
Numismatics, Ltd., Harry Gordon, and Jerry Cohen.
I've told the story at coin shows before, and I use a diagram
to show how their coin store on Beverly Drive was set up, but
here I'll just give the basics:
One day, a 'bum' walks into their Beverly Hills coin store, while
Abner was in the back office, viewing the front retail area.
Jerry goes up to the guy, and within a few seconds, chases the
guy out of the store, onto the street.
Abner runs up to the front of the shop, yelling at Jerry "What the
Heck did you just do?".....Jerry replies, Abner, don't worry - that
guy was a bum, had old clothes on, looked horrible, etc. - I chased
him out so no one would see him in our shop".
Abner just glared at Jerry and said to him:
"Jerry, you just kicked out Howard Hughes from our store !!
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
To me, the best 'treat a customer bad' story was the one that
Jerry Cohen, of Kriesberg/Cohen, Beverly Hills, told me one
day, around 1973, when I went to lunch with my boss at
Numismatics, Ltd., Harry Gordon, and Jerry Cohen.
I've told the story at coin shows before, and I use a diagram
to show how their coin store on Beverly Drive was set up, but
here I'll just give the basics:
One day, a 'bum' walks into their Beverly Hills coin store, while
Abner was in the back office, viewing the front retail area.
Jerry goes up to the guy, and within a few seconds, chases the
guy out of the store, onto the street.
Abner runs up to the front of the shop, yelling at Jerry "What the
Heck did you just do?".....Jerry replies, Abner, don't worry - that
guy was a bum, had old clothes on, looked horrible, etc. - I chased
him out so no one would see him in our shop".
Abner just glared at Jerry and said to him:
"Jerry, you just kicked out Howard Hughes from our store !!
Living in the Seattle area over the years since I got out of the Army, I heard many stories, some personal, from people that worked at Microsoft during their stock boom.
These folks dressed like bums at times (unshaven developers that wore the same clothes for days) but had money to burn, and then some.
They wanted toys to go with.....a lot of salespeople at car dealerships and other places, lost out.
Heck...I was working retail at the time that was all going on and a lot of my co-workers were doing the same thing. I didn't, as I tried to help everyone (and I grew up dirt poor, so I understood), and I ended up doing pretty well. I sold $5000+ to someone that everyone avoided that had his own fishing boats in Alaska and was just down visiting. $6000+ (2 carts full) to a woman who came in dirty, tired looking, and would have looked like she should be in kmart (she and her husband owned a HUGE orchard in central Washington State).
Books-covers.....
Now, after the cover is off, if someone acts in a certain negative way, all bets are off.
Regardless of what happened, it'd be nice if the OP at least graced us with a followup reply. But I'm not holding my breath.
Could be that his finger tips are still healing after all that typing . That was quite the first post.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
There are lots of dirt bags out there. Sounds like you kept your cool which says a lot! I'm guessing that dealer's momma would not be very proud of him for his lousy attitude! If I watched something like that go down, I would not be able to resist speaking to the dealer. At minimum to ask who peed in his Cheerios that morning!!!
To me, the best 'treat a customer bad' story was the one that
Jerry Cohen, of Kriesberg/Cohen, Beverly Hills, told me one
day, around 1973, when I went to lunch with my boss at
Numismatics, Ltd., Harry Gordon, and Jerry Cohen.
I've told the story at coin shows before, and I use a diagram
to show how their coin store on Beverly Drive was set up, but
here I'll just give the basics:
One day, a 'bum' walks into their Beverly Hills coin store, while
Abner was in the back office, viewing the front retail area.
Jerry goes up to the guy, and within a few seconds, chases the
guy out of the store, onto the street.
Abner runs up to the front of the shop, yelling at Jerry "What the
Heck did you just do?".....Jerry replies, Abner, don't worry - that
guy was a bum, had old clothes on, looked horrible, etc. - I chased
him out so no one would see him in our shop".
Abner just glared at Jerry and said to him:
"Jerry, you just kicked out Howard Hughes from our store !!
Ahhh . . . The good ole days. Prolly around 1973?
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
Lafayette Grading Set
Some people try to change them, or get them with a witty comeback or biting last word, I choose to avoid or ignore them and go on with my day.
Coin Rarities Online
How many high rollers do you see that just do not look the part? I bet a lot. Sam Walton loved to dress down and drive his old pickup to Wal-Mart just to see how he was treated.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
I consider the ability to instinctively ignore and avoid a$$hats to be the number one skill needed to experience the fun of coin shows and to maximize precious cointime.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I find it somewhat fascinating that, with all of your numismatic experience and credentials, you are asking if such a poor exchange has happened to other Board members. Dealers being rude to collectors and collectors being rude to dealers is commonplace and has been for decades. The fact that this seems to be new to you (as an individual) is a great commentary on how positive your experiences have been up to now.
Sadly, with some people in our hobby, civility is rarer than the items they collect.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
at shows... I have met a few over the years. Mostly, dealers are a great bunch of people and I look forward to meeting new dealers at shows. This particular situation could have been dealt with in several ways.... the OP chose his way. I would have done it differently. That does not mean the OP was wrong... we all deal with situations in our own way, at the time.
The one fact that is clear, is that there are distasteful people in all venues.... and, as the multitude of opinions here demonstrate... there are also those who will assume the authority of
judge, jury and execu tioner without having been part of the incident. Cheers, RickO
Paul Harvey...And Now, The Rest of The Story...
I would like to toss out one more possibility. Until recently, it did not occur to me, but I am convinced that there is a disproportionate number of people in the coin hobby with Asperger syndrome, on both sides of the table, and perhaps this is a partial explanation for the odd encounter today.
Interesting observation. I've read about other areas where there is a disproportionate number of people with Asperger's. Hadn't thought about it for the coin hobby before.
Has this ever happened to anyone else? Where a dealer just assumes because of your appearance, that you cannot afford something? To the point where they are rude to you and refuse to even discuss the item?
It is sad that it happened to you. Yes, I have had a dealer assume things about me because of my appearance. I have had other people make assumptions as well (car buying, etc).
I just don't let it get to me. Their loss. Even in numismatics, where there are more "hard to find" type of items, I will just write off dealers like that and not do business with them. I have my own moral compass.
Sadly it happened in front of my son - but fortunately as well. If he was not there, I would have been a lot more direct with the dealer and put him in his place. I do think I managed to embarrass him a little when I called him out. I did tell the show manager that I should be able to come to a show without the dealers treating me differently than other attendees, and he completely agreed. He asked me to send him an e-mail to document what happened, and hopefully they will ban the dealer from future shows.
The dealer is involved in other organizations in numismatics and I have not decided yet if I will complain to those groups. It was a public place, and so were his actions, and he should be held responsible for the public face he presents for the organizations he represents. If nothing else, despite his privately held personal beliefs, he must treat everyone equally in public events. And last time I checked - that is the law of the land too. He needs to know and use that legal and moral standard for his behavior. He hopefully learned today that he needs to be careful - because someone can turn out to be someone much different than he assumes.
Ummmm, yeah. I was on your side until around this part. A person is a person. Good or bad. If it is their business, then it is THEIR business. Running to tattle to the people in charge, because you weren't treated as you would want, and you took offense, is pretty childish, imho.
Did he physically harm you? No. Did he embarrass you? Yes.
Did he steal from you or rip you off? No.
That's something called life. And, if it were in front of my son, being done to me, I would state such to my son, and I would do it IN FRONT of the offending party...loudly.
As for whining that someone in public must treat everyone equally, and it is "the law", you are wrong. Pure and simple. Someone can choose to be as rude as they want or as nice as they want.....he didn't refuse you service and then offer the same item to someone else...he refused to sell to anyone as they were for his showing off (display) only, as you stated.
Like I said, I was on your side, initially, but as you decided to take things, imho, a bit overboard, I realized that you seem to have a chip on your shoulders and want to force others to "behave" the way you want or else you will do everything in your power to destroy them. Not cool. Just avoid dealers that you don't like, or don't like you. People are people, not machines.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Man, that is hilarious!!!
As to "why make this post" brought up by several posters, why not? One of the major concerns for our hobby is its future, as the average age of collectors creeps up and fewer and fewer young numismatists appear. This type of dealer makes us all look bad in the eyes of many.
While I typically avoid confrontations at shows, I often wonder if this approach is empowering to the minority of jerks that seem to take delight in insulting the general public. Yes, they are few and far between, and yes, most will not change their ways no matter what is said to them, but silence is acquiescence.
Hope you feel better, OP. You actually have a better chance of producing change with this particular dealer because of your connections within your specialty. A few well-placed comments to other medal enthusiasts may do a world of good. Best of luck to you and your son.
My Ebay Store
mind if I ask what show in CA. this dealer was attending?
Made me suspicious.. no show name .. no dealer name
mind if I ask what show in CA. this dealer was attending?
Made me suspicious.. no show name .. no dealer name
I'm not doubting something happened,but at the risk of being another one of those evil dealers, I seriously doubt it went down like posted.
My Ebay Store
Don't dispare plenty of gentleman dealers out there.
But in 40 years of Bourse walking I have been yelled at, ignored, insulted, refused to show coins, or sell coins ( why are they there?)
Notebooks purposely thrown under my face to block my view into a Bourse case
I have had many dealers get angry when I offered coins for sale to them ostensibly to intimidate me
Into selling cheaply. I have a dozen top registry sets so my coins for sale are not low end.
I have had dealers play shell games with coins I was buying from them, surprising me when I got coins back I was
Not buying even across a Bourse table when I just handed them the coins to price for me.
On the other hand there some gentleman dealers happy to buy my coins, or learn from me realizing I know way more than they do in my specialty
Krueger
Right on HandH.
Well written--
Krueger
(just kidding)
Though I imagine this has been tried once or twice.
Or you could have also called the medals dreck and walked away.
The OP acted appropriately.
When my daughter was 8/9, we attended coin shows and dealers
went out of their way to engage her in conversation and often had
little gifts.
I am glad the youngster enjoyed the show.
The OP is new to the forum, so I certainly understand his
reluctance to be more specific about the details.
People are entitled to their prejudices, but they are bad for business.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I wrote a book on Coin Collecting for the Next Generation, which I studied this subject, i.e. problems with some coin shows from a kids perspective.
For example, I have my then 16 year old son $100 and asked him to go around the Baltimore coin show (300 dealers) and purchase Lincoln cents, I watched as two-thirds of the dealers refused to show him a coin, some were
doing nothing, just sitting there. When I discussed this with the management of the show, and made suggestions such as a competition, voted by the public for the best kids dealer, then post their name at the next show. The head dealer said it was a bad idea because other dealers would become jealous. They did not get it. If a dealer helps my kid enjoy the show, I will do business with them. Of course, there are some great dealers out there and I have witnessed some very helpful to kids and go out of their way to help kids.
I have interviewed many senior YNs who had the same problem in viewing coins, and some were ready to quit. I interviewed many women who had the same problem.
Old school and its just a business is a poor and invalid excuse for such behavior and it is killing our hobby in part.
I found the answer for kids anyway was smaller shows, such as Ocean City Coin Club, which has a high focus on helping kids had an incredible environment. I found other larger shows such as Central States and PAN also cared about kids and reputation, it goes from the top down, if the leaders care about reputation and the general environment being positive, and not just focused on receiving money for a table, they will address such situations.
If not, find another show, and let them know of your intentions to find another show and not recommend their show to your coin friends. Its a small world in coins, word does get around. A show organizer might consider this
and take action as if they loose collectors coming to the show, they will loose business and then the dealers.
I commend you on your patience, especially given your knowledge and expertise on the subject, I might not have been so nice. I would have probably left my son home at the next show, taken your friend with you
and confronted him, ask why he showed your friend and not you, asked him if he knew about the coins, telling him of their history, asked him if he knew how by treating people like he did, he was giving the hobby a bad name......
maybe if he has a conscious, he might see his wrong doing and think twice the next time, especially knowing that you could have afforded the coins, and he lost your business.
When I am doing lectures on coins to clubs and talking about kids, many of the old timers do not listen, till I bring up the financial consideration, that who will buy your coins if their is no next generation.
By showing him he lost an opportunity to sell an expensive coin, it might hit a nerve toward his wallet.
There are still a great number of collectors and dealers out there who understand the essence of the hobby, the sharing of knowledge and information for the benefit of the hobby, it is a hobby, whether you are doing business or just pleasure, it should be enjoyable.
Kevin
My rule of thumb with restaurants works here. If I have a real bad experience at a restaurant I normally do not complain but simply never go back. This way if they treat everyone the way they treated me they will probably go out of business losing their customers. If they stay in business than they probably just had a bad day. Bottom line---usually not worth arguing with anyone. They won't change and you stay happier.
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My YouTube Channel
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Coin Rarities Online
OP posts once, gets 80+ replies, doesn't even chime in again. I'm either impressed or annoyed, can't decide...
This
OP posts once, gets 80+ replies, doesn't even chime in again. I'm either impressed or annoyed, can't decide...
This
Anessed or impoyed - hard to decide.
8 Reales Madness Collection
The first time was at a show in New York City in the early 1970s. I was in my mid 20s and was wearing a bright red sports jacket with a tie. I asked a guy who behind the table of one of the up and coming coin firms at the time if I could see an 1800 half dime he had in his case.
"You can't afford it!" he snapped at me.
When it came to appearances he didn't have anything on me. He had long kinky hair and face full of stubble long before that look was fashionable. I could have seen one of the crusty old dealers of that era telling him the same thing he'd just said to me.
I just walked off and said to myself, "To 'HEQ' with him." Later I got know how his firm priced coins, and he was right. I couldn't afford what he was selling, but not for the reason that he assumed.
Even though I'm older with gray hair, I've heard that line thrown at me a couple of times. I guess those guys don't like my looks and don't know who I am.
When I was dealer I learned "Never judge a book by its cover." I once had a couple customers who worked in construction who had callused hands and did not dress like fashion plates. Both of them were ready to shell out several thousand dollars for the right Morgan dollar.
Jerry Cohen, of Kriesberg/Cohen, Beverly Hills, told me one
day, around 1973, when I went to lunch with my boss at
Numismatics, Ltd., Harry Gordon, and Jerry Cohen.
I've told the story at coin shows before, and I use a diagram
to show how their coin store on Beverly Drive was set up, but
here I'll just give the basics:
One day, a 'bum' walks into their Beverly Hills coin store, while
Abner was in the back office, viewing the front retail area.
Jerry goes up to the guy, and within a few seconds, chases the
guy out of the store, onto the street.
Abner runs up to the front of the shop, yelling at Jerry "What the
Heck did you just do?".....Jerry replies, Abner, don't worry - that
guy was a bum, had old clothes on, looked horrible, etc. - I chased
him out so no one would see him in our shop".
Abner just glared at Jerry and said to him:
"Jerry, you just kicked out Howard Hughes from our store !!
To me, the best 'treat a customer bad' story was the one that
Jerry Cohen, of Kriesberg/Cohen, Beverly Hills, told me one
day, around 1973, when I went to lunch with my boss at
Numismatics, Ltd., Harry Gordon, and Jerry Cohen.
I've told the story at coin shows before, and I use a diagram
to show how their coin store on Beverly Drive was set up, but
here I'll just give the basics:
One day, a 'bum' walks into their Beverly Hills coin store, while
Abner was in the back office, viewing the front retail area.
Jerry goes up to the guy, and within a few seconds, chases the
guy out of the store, onto the street.
Abner runs up to the front of the shop, yelling at Jerry "What the
Heck did you just do?".....Jerry replies, Abner, don't worry - that
guy was a bum, had old clothes on, looked horrible, etc. - I chased
him out so no one would see him in our shop".
Abner just glared at Jerry and said to him:
"Jerry, you just kicked out Howard Hughes from our store !!
Living in the Seattle area over the years since I got out of the Army, I heard many stories, some personal, from people that worked at Microsoft during their stock boom.
These folks dressed like bums at times (unshaven developers that wore the same clothes for days) but had money to burn, and then some.
They wanted toys to go with.....a lot of salespeople at car dealerships and other places, lost out.
Heck...I was working retail at the time that was all going on and a lot of my co-workers were doing the same thing. I didn't, as I tried to help everyone (and I grew up dirt poor, so I understood), and I ended up doing pretty well. I sold $5000+ to someone that everyone avoided that had his own fishing boats in Alaska and was just down visiting. $6000+ (2 carts full) to a woman who came in dirty, tired looking, and would have looked like she should be in kmart (she and her husband owned a HUGE orchard in central Washington State).
Books-covers.....
Now, after the cover is off, if someone acts in a certain negative way, all bets are off.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Regardless of what happened, it'd be nice if the OP at least graced us with a followup reply. But I'm not holding my breath.
Could be that his finger tips are still healing after all that typing . That was quite the first post.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Numismatists gather for drama more than we do for coins.
My YouTube Channel
To me, the best 'treat a customer bad' story was the one that
Jerry Cohen, of Kriesberg/Cohen, Beverly Hills, told me one
day, around 1973, when I went to lunch with my boss at
Numismatics, Ltd., Harry Gordon, and Jerry Cohen.
I've told the story at coin shows before, and I use a diagram
to show how their coin store on Beverly Drive was set up, but
here I'll just give the basics:
One day, a 'bum' walks into their Beverly Hills coin store, while
Abner was in the back office, viewing the front retail area.
Jerry goes up to the guy, and within a few seconds, chases the
guy out of the store, onto the street.
Abner runs up to the front of the shop, yelling at Jerry "What the
Heck did you just do?".....Jerry replies, Abner, don't worry - that
guy was a bum, had old clothes on, looked horrible, etc. - I chased
him out so no one would see him in our shop".
Abner just glared at Jerry and said to him:
"Jerry, you just kicked out Howard Hughes from our store !!
Ahhh . . . The good ole days. Prolly around 1973?
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think we're all part of a college psych experiment.
Ha!
OP posts once, gets 80+ replies, doesn't even chime in again. I'm either impressed or annoyed, can't decide...