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Reasons why the Gold First Spouse is a failure as a series (JMHO)
WingedLiberty1957
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I realize this is a controversial title!
Curious what you all think?
Do you think the first spouse series is a success or a failure?
I vote for failure.
And here are my primary reasons why.
1. A Terrible subject matter.
Really the best the US Mint could come up with are the wives of presidents? Admittedly some wives made significant contributions (like Eleanor Roosevelt amongst a few others, but is that reason enough to make a whole coin series about them?
2. Terrible and uninspired designs.
Many of these coins are ugly beyond imagination. In the hands of talented designers, I bet it would have been possible to make these better looking. Some of them look like they were designed by 12 year old just learning about coin design.
3. High metal content cost and a resultant high cost per coin.
If you did want to collect the whole series (and no idea why someone would want to), you must be talking about a $40,000+ investment. This is a pile of cash to lay out for what I consider to be some of the ugliest modern coins ever produced.
4. Falling Gold Prices since 2011 or so.
Final nail in the coffin was the falling price of gold after 2011. So any coins bought over the past 5 years are probably underwanter in terms of value.
5. Final thoughts.
Point 1: I only really like 4 of the FS coins, and those are the Liberty Subset for presidents that didnt have wives. Where they used old U.S. Coin Deisgns on the obverse. Those are actually kind of cool looking (IMHO) ... Or at least I dont want to throw up when looking at them. But what does it say about a series when the BEST coins of the series are those that dont actually (technically) fit into the series ... LOL
Point 2: I think a few collectors keep trying to guess which one will be the lowest mintage and buy that hoping for a future windfall. But the mintages of most of them are really low. The issue is, who are you going to sell them to? I dont know anyone that is exciting about collecting the series (but I suppse there might be a few out there somewhere?)
Yes, I do own these four. So I contributed to the insanity. but other than the Jackson, I kind of hate the other 3 reverses.
Curious what you all think?
Do you think the first spouse series is a success or a failure?
I vote for failure.
And here are my primary reasons why.
1. A Terrible subject matter.
Really the best the US Mint could come up with are the wives of presidents? Admittedly some wives made significant contributions (like Eleanor Roosevelt amongst a few others, but is that reason enough to make a whole coin series about them?
2. Terrible and uninspired designs.
Many of these coins are ugly beyond imagination. In the hands of talented designers, I bet it would have been possible to make these better looking. Some of them look like they were designed by 12 year old just learning about coin design.
3. High metal content cost and a resultant high cost per coin.
If you did want to collect the whole series (and no idea why someone would want to), you must be talking about a $40,000+ investment. This is a pile of cash to lay out for what I consider to be some of the ugliest modern coins ever produced.
4. Falling Gold Prices since 2011 or so.
Final nail in the coffin was the falling price of gold after 2011. So any coins bought over the past 5 years are probably underwanter in terms of value.
5. Final thoughts.
Point 1: I only really like 4 of the FS coins, and those are the Liberty Subset for presidents that didnt have wives. Where they used old U.S. Coin Deisgns on the obverse. Those are actually kind of cool looking (IMHO) ... Or at least I dont want to throw up when looking at them. But what does it say about a series when the BEST coins of the series are those that dont actually (technically) fit into the series ... LOL
Point 2: I think a few collectors keep trying to guess which one will be the lowest mintage and buy that hoping for a future windfall. But the mintages of most of them are really low. The issue is, who are you going to sell them to? I dont know anyone that is exciting about collecting the series (but I suppse there might be a few out there somewhere?)
Yes, I do own these four. So I contributed to the insanity. but other than the Jackson, I kind of hate the other 3 reverses.
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Maybe the First Pets Coins will be 1/10 oz ?
I did not particularly like the designs either. Seems old dead men just don't turn me on.
Now the same goes with the spouses....with one exception. I did buy the Jackie Kennedy as she was one class act!
bob
PS: after having Jackie for a while (still in unopened box) I see that if I tried to sell it would be at a loss.
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I agree. That is only piece from that series that is in my collection. It sits beside the JFK gold half dollar.
I did buy the Draped Bust piece because I have long admired that design, but the mint sent a really poor example to me. Fortunately I sold that one for a small profit when I was dealer because the price of bullion was up at the time. That coin was so screwed up, I'm sure it got melted.
As I've written before, this series covered a topic that should not have been addressed with a set of commemorative coins. Although there have been some good First Ladies and some of historical note, most of them went along for the ride and should not have been honored by a commemorative coin, especially a gold commemorative coin.
Those reverses are barely suitable for dollar coins. They all have a " let's circulate these dogs" look to me that speaks well for pocket change but not for collectible gold.
I feel fortunate I put my gold funds elsewhere. Unless, I can pay below spot for the spousal abusers.
I remain very sorry that Congress screwed up that one winning aspect of the series, and substituted Alice Paul during Chester Arthur's tenure instead of the contemporary Liberty design. Whoever came up with that idea (it came by dictate from Congress, of course) should be taken out and flogged (probably the same person who came up with the First Spouse series idea in the first place).
On the other hand, gold's gold, When the price goes up again, we may see a "rediscovery" of this obscure series and a surge in interest. Stranger things have happened in numismatics.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
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The designs are terrible (ugly actually), and the only (IMO) redeeming value is that they are
gold. I do not foresee them ever worth much more than melt. I would not pay that much...well,
I would not pay anything unless it was approaching 3/4 of melt. Cheers, RickO
The biggest problem any marketing scheme will face is the fact these things each contain one half ounce of gold, which will keep the riff-raff from participating. I've seen ads for the tenth ounce Gold Eagles in non-collector magazines, but these things with five times the gold content will be a harder sell.
From a distance, of course, where the deaf are King.
I have made a few buying errors in my short collecting life, but thankfully, never as fateful or futile as this series.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
One can still get them for a little over the price of gold.
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K
Edited to add:
There's been no one broadly supporting prices in the modern gold market since Bob Lecce's passing. Few people realize how important it is for market makers in price perceptions.
I appreciate a few of the classic commems and really like five or six of them. The only modern commems that appeal to me (slightly) are the 2009 UHR and the baseball "coin." Beyond that, it's just an attempt by our government to turn a profit on something the non-subsidized private sector could do better.
The Liberty subseries is OK, but still are just retreads of designs better executed on the originals.
I knew it would happen.
The subject matter is open to discussion, as I liked the ones where classic coins were used when there was no spouse. But I did not like them enough to buy what is essentially a bullion coin, tying up lots of resources in a series I did not see completing. If I were a gold bug, I might have gone for the short set of Liberty's, but I am not.
Such a "short set" could include Martha Washington, Dolley Madison, Mary Todd Lincoln, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jackie Kennedy, and possibly a few others.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I believe the major problem is cost. When the series began, the coins were somewhere around $450 at issue. My memory may fail me, but it was in that range. With the run up of gold and silver, many of the Mint products are priced out of range of the original target market. This includes proof sets, both silver and clad. The days of being able to buy an inexpensive SAE or proof set for children or grandchildren at Christmas or for birthdays is no longer possible with the price of metals.
The subject matter is open to discussion, as I liked the ones where classic coins were used when there was no spouse. But I did not like them enough to buy what is essentially a bullion coin, tying up lots of resources in a series I did not see completing. If I were a gold bug, I might have gone for the short set of Liberty's, but I am not.
Exactly. The series was initially pretty hot when the coins were under $500 each. Then, very quickly the price of each coin was over $750, then it went to over $1000 per coin with the huge run up in gold prices. I think that, more than anything, killed the momentum of this series.
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strike labels, even though the more modern ones with much lower
mintages have many first strike labels. will these spouses with
say 100 or less first strike labels, hold up better price wise better then the
others?
I have noticed that some of the early spouses have few first strike
strike labels, even though the more modern ones with much lower
mintages have many first strike labels. will these spouses with
say 100 or less first strike labels, hold up better price wise better then the
others?
Just how many collectors of these really care about the First Strike labels? The premium I would allow for such a label would be zero, assuming I actually wanted to buy any, which I don't.
This series, since so many bought at inflated pricing, will be very ripe for the melt, and who knows, that may get the mintage to an interesting and unknown level!
Until then, spot minus.
Hey, it could happen!
In a century or two, people will be slobbering over a few of the lower mintage issues just like they do with Stellas today.
Hey, it could happen!
It all depends upon what is view as "low mintage" at that time. The most common Stella has a mintage of 425. None of the First Spouse coins are that low, most all of the surviving First Spouse coins will have higher grades, much higher grades. A lot of the surviving Stellas are messed up from what I've seen.
In a century or two, people will be slobbering over a few of the lower mintage issues just like they do with Stellas today.
That's why they should stay in their capsules!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I made $32.
I wouldn't collect the series, but these were a success.
And they're going out with a whimper. I like Nancy, but nowhere close enough to buy the coin.
Well many First Strike labels sell for very good premiums, that would imply many collectors value them!
But will these premiums last over time? I doubt it.
I do not collect that set nor do I have any intentions of doing so. As a contrarian by nature, I believe, due to the low mintage, they will do very well 10+ years from now. Just review previous low mintage & at the time, unpopular gold coins, as a reference.
OPA I strongly agree with you. The set I have built, MS and PR, will be held for a very long time, however, I think that these will do quite well over time. Quite funny to read many of the posts in this thread. Ive never seen so much venom against a series. Its quite comical really.
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Well many First Strike labels sell for very good premiums, that would imply many collectors value them!
Many First Strikes have decent premiums in MS70 and PR70, but the First Strike label adds little or no premium for First Spouse coins in lower grades.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
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