SEGS coin: to buy, or not to buy?
Steve1124
Posts: 198 ✭
I know the philosophy of "buy the coin, not the label", but one must also use caution when making an expensive investment. And you can't always tell strictly from the photos being presented on ebay. Here is a coin currently being offered that is graded by SEGS, which admittedly is not one of the "big three" TPG services. BUT, that doesn't necessarily mean they haven't slabbed quality coins. They grade this one 'XF 45', and quite frankly, I'm not too concerned if they're "half a grade" off, and it would only grade 'XF 40' by PCGS. My bigger concern is whether the coin (if trying to cross over to PCGS, or NGC) would come back with that dreaded 'cleaning' qualifier. Honestly, from the photos, I just can't tell. There doesn't SEEM to be any obvious hairlines that would be a dead giveaway. And SEGS certainly didn't flag it as being cleaned. The seller, understandably would not want to commit one way or the other. So I defer to you, my colleagues for your thoughts, and advice on whether you think this particular coin is a bad risk. I can say this: if the coin were in a PCGS holder, with no qualifiers, it would have a much higher price tag. But is THAT in itself a reason to reject it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1861-O-WB-102-CSA-OBV-XF-SEATED-LIBERTY-50c-HALF-DOLLAR-ID-TT308-/201502741720?hash=item2eea7fd4d8:g:76YAAOSwT~9WlpEN
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1861-O-WB-102-CSA-OBV-XF-SEATED-LIBERTY-50c-HALF-DOLLAR-ID-TT308-/201502741720?hash=item2eea7fd4d8:g:76YAAOSwT~9WlpEN
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Comments
I'd vote no
The seller normally has high prices.
And SEGS coins are hard to crack
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
On the other hand, if your confidence level is low, pass. Keep in mind this dealer won a PCGS grading competition a few years back.
(This seller handles returns efficiently without hassle, so allow that to also guide your judgment.)
peacockcoins
My current 8 coin submission to PCGS include capped bust halves in ANACS holders. The opinions of the persons assessing the coin(s) is typically respected, or it's not. The holder (seller / owner) of the coin(s) always has , and is entitled to his/her own opinion. Respectfully.
The coin looks okay to me. Whether PCGS graders or others here agree isn't relevant to my thinking.
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. Description (Subject to Revision) Grade Country
1 1 In Process In Process 1827 50C In Process USA
2 1 In Process In Process 1830 50C In Process USA
3 1 In Process In Process 1830 50C In Process USA
4 1 In Process In Process 1830 50C In Process USA
5 1 In Process In Process 1831 50C In Process USA
6 1 In Process In Process 1834 50C In Process USA
7 1 In Process In Process 1834 50C In Process USA
8 1 In Process In Process 1859 50C In Process USA
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I actually have a seated half in my pocket right now that looks much better and it's still not acceptable to me.
It is from a similar purchase.
What would this coin go for raw? What is the downside if you were forced to flip it raw or in the SEGS holder?
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
The close-up shot makes this coin look like a VF-35. I don't think that it will cross at the EF-45 grade and EF-40 would be touch and go.
The history of this die and coin has an interest for me too, but my approach would be different. If I wanted one I'd be happy with a decent looking raw piece that would not be at a "break the bank" price. The diagnostic die crack is really small and does not jump out at you. This is a specialist's coin for sure.
This 1861-O half dollar is not the "Confederate Obverse" variety, but it will give you an idea as to "old time grading." I bought this coin raw, which it still is, as an EF-40 years ago. It might make EF-45 or even AU-50 today. Still this will give you an idea as to the amount of "meat" the coin originally had. The coin you are considering has a fair amount of wear, and the original surfaces are gone.
Many seasoned collectors have done quite well purchasing raw coins from this dealer and successfully getting them graded/slabbed with an eventual price tag that exceeds the original selling price.
On the other hand, if your confidence level is low, pass. Keep in mind this dealer won a PCGS grading competition a few years back.
(This seller handles returns efficiently without hassle, so allow that to also guide your judgment.)
If this seller is selling a gradable coin raw, there's a reason for it it.
bob
Lance.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
if I was the buyer, i would chance it, but i would be willing to be the one holding the bag if it didn't cross. may take a few times but i see nothing that would keep it from a 40 at least, again, YOU must be willing to gamble with your own money and losing your own money if it comes to it, contrary to the experience of others here, ive purchased several coins from fair traders, and I do no believe they spend the extra money to try and get everything slabbed, they re-sell what they buy for the most part. not everyone is a slave to the plastic
So why do they slab $70 coins, but pass on $1700 coins?
If it came back cleaned, what would it be worth?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Latin American Collection
" You can lead a horse to water, but not a horse's ass.
If he don't like the watering hole, he'll be sure to pass. "
Many seasoned collectors have done quite well purchasing raw coins from this dealer and successfully getting them graded/slabbed with an eventual price tag that exceeds the original selling price.
On the other hand, if your confidence level is low, pass. Keep in mind this dealer won a PCGS grading competition a few years back.
(This seller handles returns efficiently without hassle, so allow that to also guide your judgment.)
There's your sign
By the way, the 1861-O that you display is the W-07 Louisiana issue variety. It's identified by two main factors: the date slanting up, and the post of the letter 'R' in AMERICA having that slight diagonal line on it.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Looks like a nice original and properly graded coin to me. If it's important to you that the coin is in a PCGS slab with a CAC sticker, don't buy it and just wait for one that meets your criteria. If you just want a nice coin, then buy it. I think someone submitted this coin to SEGS because they were willing to note on the label that this coin was struck by the CSA which makes it special and historically significant. I don't think that the other grading services will do this.
Nonsense. PCGS will attribute by Wiley-Bugert and note the CSA origin.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Bill Jones - I trust I'm replying to your comment, and large photos of your 1861-O half. Nice looking coin, though even that one appears to have some kind of "hairlines" on the upper reverse. Seems the majority feel the coin I was considering is either cleaned, or not worth the risk to find out! And with the cost, I don't think it would be wise to chance it.
By the way, the 1861-O that you display is the W-07 Louisiana issue variety. It's identified by two main factors: the date slanting up, and the post of the letter 'R' in AMERICA having that slight diagonal line on it.
Thank you for the information on my 1861-O! I take it that it is thought that the piece was made while the New Orleans Mint was under the control of the State of Louisiana before the Confederacy took control of it.
As for the hairlines on the reverse, they don't bother me much. As usual my photo makes them look bigger than they are. Some people would get more bent out shape over the marks on Ms. Liberty's arm. The coin is not Mint State. It comes with the territory. I paid $65 for that coin so it's not like I'm going to stay up at worrying about a couple of marks.
Looks like a nice original and properly graded coin to me. If it's important to you that the coin is in a PCGS slab with a CAC sticker, don't buy it and just wait for one that meets your criteria. If you just want a nice coin, then buy it. I think someone submitted this coin to SEGS because they were willing to note on the label that this coin was struck by the CSA which makes it special and historically significant. I don't think that the other grading services will do this.
Nonsense. PCGS will attribute by Wiley-Bugert and note the CSA origin.
PCGS will attribute it, but they might not give it a straight grade. As a collector I've come to the conclusion that it's better to buy the coin in the holder than you want rather than buying it something else and then trying to move it over. When you are a dealer, and you are submitting a lot of coins for grading, you can make a lot of money. When you are collector with limited submissions ... not so much.
do you have proof that THEY slab the $70 coins or are they SELLING slabbed $70 coins ? please clarify
In this case, If I liked the coin for my set, I'd make the guy an offer. But I have no idea what the context of the rest of your collection is, or how something like an XFish 1861O CSA obv half fits in.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry