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How many coins do you need to sell in order to learn how to buy at the right price?

I use Quicken to track my finances and I have my collection valued at what I paid for it.
I know that is not the case, since there are costs to sell
But I don't know good my buying prices are until I see what I can sell them for in the current market.

Coins I bought at auction are one bid increment above what someone else valued it at the time and coins I paid the asking price are pretty much unknown.

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    jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,601 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Until you frequently try to sell coins in which you bought, you wont understand the market dynamics. Its an eye-opening experience. it will also improve your buying
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    ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 715 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some of the nicest coins are bought without thoughts of selling in mind. These are the coins that surface years later and become big winners. That said, purchase with the intent to hold long term and don't be afraid to stretch for quality as quality is very resistant to market fluctuations.
    Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some people will never learn
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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think there's a direct correlation between the quantity of coins sold and the level of knowledge attained by the experience. Some people have a natural aptitude for it and others can learn it over time. Some people (most?) harbor at least a few irrational thoughts about their collecting and the finances involved. Some are truly fools, and are ruthlessly preyed upon.



    All of that aside, selling a few coins by a variety of methods from time to time is a great way to learn.
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    YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,494 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BryceM
    I don't think there's a direct correlation between the quantity of coins sold and the level of knowledge attained by the experience. Some people have a natural aptitude for it and others can learn it over time. Some people (most?) harbor at least a few irrational thoughts about their collecting and the finances involved. Some are truly fools, and are ruthlessly preyed upon.

    All of that aside, selling a few coins by a variety of methods from time to time is a great way to learn.


    I agree with that premise that selling is a great way to learn.
    Some collectors boast that they have never sold a coin. Their collection would probably be better and they would have a better understanding of the market if they had.
    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's the right price ? May I see the coin ? If it doesn't sharpen my mind or eyes, it will probably sharpen my tongue or pencil.
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    winkywinky Posts: 1,671
    I've learned from experience (buy high and sell low) that seems to tell it like it is. Most of us do that so you will learn quick not to over spend just because you want it. Unless you can afford it and just don't care. All dealers are way over retail because they don't want you in competition with them and they also want all your money. I believe there are some decent dealers out there and also on this forum so just hunt them out and be happy with your buys. Saying that I haven't found any outside the forum that are fair.



    If you are young you may be able to make a profit before you retire but don't count on it.



    Just my thoughts, not to harm or upset anyone.
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    FullStrikeFullStrike Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭
    If I "buy" a quarter for 25 cents or a dime for 10 cents, then I am 100% confident I have made a "good buy ". ;-)

    When you get into paying $100's or $1,000's of dollars for an old Coin with beautiful corrosion and rare plastic encasements
    then you are going out on a limb. You are engaging in a strange game that most people would never play.

    How do you play this game with the least risk?

    Yes indeed, that is the question.

    Most 10 year old children know the answer. Us " grown ups " are too intelligent to know the answer. :-(


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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Proofmorgan

    Some of the nicest coins are bought without thoughts of selling in mind. These are the coins that surface years later and become big winners. That said, purchase with the intent to hold long term and don't be afraid to stretch for quality as quality is very resistant to market fluctuations.




    Very much agree.



    I have sold a lot of coins in the short term for upgrades and whatnot and have almost never lost money. I usually break even or I make a few bucks, so I must be doing something right. The coins that I really paid up for (only a few) or the ones that I paid retail for (many); I plan to hold for the long term. I don't feel concerned at all about the prices that I've paid.



    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How many coins do you need to sell in order to learn how to buy at the right price?



    5,087 + or - 600.
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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,902 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I doubt it will ever have enough to learn that lesson. One thing that I have learned though...if you hesitate on purchasing...it may not be available when you decide to pull the trigger. Three times in the last few months (this past Monday most recently) it was not longer available when I tried to buy it, although it was still listed as "available" on their website.



    I have lost money on most of the coins that I have sold. I consider the loss as the rent for having them in my possession, I do manage to keep an image of most of them though for sentimental reasons.
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
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    TyrockTyrock Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
    I agree that trying to sell a few unwanted pieces is a good way to learn about the dynamics of selling coins. Here's where knowledge becomes very important.
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    jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You need to sell 7 coins before you understand.
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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    perhaps this thread might have some useful information.
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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Selling in a numismatic portfolio should be as active as buying. You should be familiar with playing on both sides of the ball. I have an ebay store and set up at local shows and some out of town if it favors certain synergies. Sadly, I see people on the bourse in forced sell situations taking a beating or shocked at actually how competitive and tough the coin business can be like their first table at a show. Making enough net profit to cover the show expenses is not always an easy thing to do. Many times it will be TOFT and in that scenario it could be a good buying show even if selling is in the tank. That why a good cash balance is critical.
    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    TigersFan2TigersFan2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans
    I use Quicken to track my finances and I have my collection valued at what I paid for it.
    I know that is not the case, since there are costs to sell
    But I don't know good my buying prices are until I see what I can sell them for in the current market.


    Coins I bought at auction are one bid increment above what someone else valued it at the time and coins I paid the asking price are pretty much unknown.

    Interesting. I've tracked my personal finances in Quicken since 1996 but have never considered entering my coins as individual assets in Quicken.

    I do have a spreadsheet in which I track what I buy coins for and attribute Ebay Bucks earned against the purchase price of each coin purchased.

    I love the 3 P's: PB&J, PBR and PCGS.
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    SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 9,959 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: FullStrike
    When you get into paying $100's or $1,000's of dollars for an old Coin with beautiful corrosion and rare plastic encasements
    then you are going out on a limb.





    Truth.
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans

    I use Quicken to track my finances and I have my collection valued at what I paid for it.

    I know that is not the case, since there are costs to sell

    But I don't know good my buying prices are until I see what I can sell them for in the current market.



    Coins I bought at auction are one bid increment above what someone else valued it at the time and coins I paid the asking price are pretty much unknown.




    Well instead of selling them to a dealer, you would do better if you could sell to the same person/collector that he will sell to. Hard for the average collector to have access to the retail end of the market.
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    winkywinky Posts: 1,671
    Originally posted by: jerseycat101
    You need to sell 7 coins before you understand.



    Why the number 7??
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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A few years ago David Hall answered a similar question in the Q&A forum and said 'a million dollars worth'.
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    OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Proofmorgan

    Some of the nicest coins are bought without thoughts of selling in mind. These are the coins that surface years later and become big winners. That said, purchase with the intent to hold long term and don't be afraid to stretch for quality as quality is very resistant to market fluctuations.




    Sometimes. But I see collectors taking this to the extreme as an excuse for paying way above current retail price ranges.



    - long term holding doesn't guarantee profit (sometimes it helps)

    - you have to buy the right coins and have a good eye for quality for this to work



    It's not smart to play the game of "it doesn't matter how much I pay because I never sell anything" unless you really don't care how much you or your family will potentially lose.
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One only needs to sell one, to learn how expensive it can be to replace one.
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    TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TigersFan2
    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans
    I use Quicken to track my finances and I have my collection valued at what I paid for it.
    I know that is not the case, since there are costs to sell
    But I don't know good my buying prices are until I see what I can sell them for in the current market.


    Coins I bought at auction are one bid increment above what someone else valued it at the time and coins I paid the asking price are pretty much unknown.





    Interesting. I've tracked my personal finances in Quicken since 1996 but have never considered entering my coins as individual assets in Quicken.



    I do have a spreadsheet in which I track what I buy coins for and attribute Ebay Bucks earned against the purchase price of each coin purchased.

    If you don't post your coin purchase to an asset account, then when you buy one and pay with your bank or CC the money just disappears like it is an expense.

    I use Quicken to track my net worth and download transactions daily from my bank and brokerage accounts, but my Coin Collection account stays at what I paid for them.
    That probably overstates my net worth, which isn't good since I'll think I'm richer than I am - and that would make me spend more money on coins. image

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    VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How many coins do you need to sell in order to learn how to buy at the right price?



    Dozens and still don't know what I'm doing. image





    But it's fun! image
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    LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unfortunately, every year I send Uncle Sam 28% for hobby gains......
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
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    pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    If you buy a coin today and honestly think you can resell it tomorrow for the same amount or more, you got it figured out. If what you buy today will only sell for 60 cents on the dollar tomorrow you are a coin collector. 6 month, 1 year or 6 years or 10 years down the road is a crap shoot and to think you are going to see a yearly gain good luck
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some of the most ardent bears become bulls at some point, or not.
    On the other hand, I rarely see a buffalo hunter chase panda or koala bears. Each to their own in this game of coins.
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    It took me YEARS and thousands of dollars worth of mistakes just to master 1 series. Numismatics is truly a life long journey.
    Avid Collector of Early US Type Coins.
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    WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Or how strong is you're stomach for taking a haircut on a coin purchase?



    As others have said, is it the right material? Or your position in the food chain. Apparently ones emotions can get one to buy a coin further down the line than one should.



    It appears that unless you invest in a B and M or show table fees, it it pretty hard to buy a coin at the ground level. Competition can get so fierce that it seems that ones edge is based on customer base developed over time. If you have a large base with many customers to sell to then ones purchase price can be stronger than one with no known customers who can't feasibly pay much at all.



    I see the trade off as paying retail for a coin as a collector with associated premiums, or investing in a business and all the associated risk and time investment. But it's all a game of buying at one end of the line and moving it along a little (or all the way if you can) for profit. I've got some stomach for that but mostly I don't get too caught up in it. That game interests me less and less and just boil it down to saving and buying things that I like and keep relationships alive with folks that appreciate them as much as I do.
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't have to sell any to learn; a friend told me his story of selling.



    He had paid $30 for a BU '31-S Lincoln and couldn't get an offer over $12.



    I started paying less immediately. When I went to sell my buffalo nickel collection in 1968 most of the coins brought a small fraction of what I had paid but thanks to a couple of good buys and higher prices I still eked out a tiny profit.



    You have to know market values and these evolve over time and the way you learn them varies.
    Tempus fugit.
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    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,815 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How many coins do you need to sell in order to learn how to buy at the right price?


    I'm a fast learner. Only one.
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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    SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It depends.

    "There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Sonorandesertrat
    It depends.

    "There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers


    Nothing like visions of a good weenie roast before bed.
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    ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re sale, it has more to do with the quality of, the demand for, and the venue of sale for a particular coin than anything else. Re buying, it depends what you mean by the 'right' price. To me, the right price is slightly below what a comparable coin would cost at the time you buy it. Don't expect a bargain on a nice coin unless you are dealing with a complete fool.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
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    JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    4.



    mark
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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    jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,601 ✭✭✭✭✭
    On the coin dealer side, I can usually buy at a fair enough price to resell at a profit. Once in a while , sometimes after purchasing what I think will be a good buy , the buyers dry up


    Now , on the collection side of the house, often I have had to stretch a great deal to aquire a coin I want personally, those are hard to profit on , especially in a market such as this. Currently , I only add something to my stuff when its a somewhat fair price. I like owing certain things, but also lately don't want to pour a pile of money down the drain, that I will never see again.
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    DeepCoinDeepCoin Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭
    The coin market is fluid and like all markets, it goes up and it goes down. What you paid years ago has no effect upon what you can sell it for today. That is where many dealers lose a ton of money, by holding onto coins they are buried in due to market changes, not due to buying wrong. As a business person, you need to keep your money at work. If you lose 1K on a 3K coin, then you still have 2K left to buy other coins to sell and recapture the money lose. If you just let the coin sit, your money is not working for you. This presumes an active dealer who is turning new inventory regularly at a profit.

    Then there is the collector. I would fall into that category. When my collecting interests change, I liquidate what I am no longer interested in, and understand I may or may not come out ahead. Recently I took a bath on a proof set run I had owned for years. I just wanted to clear out what I was no longer interested in. It is my opinion (worth what you paid for it, lol) that the proof set market post 1950 has entered a period not unlike the classic commemorative market. I see no upside in the distant future, so rather than keep coins that are not going to increase in value from the bottom we are in, I chose to liquidate them.

    I don't think it is the number of coins you have sold as that is just transactional detail. Rather it is what you paid for them in the market in which the coins were acquired. I am above water for most of the coins in my type set collection, including liquidation costs, i.e. selling fees and shipping & handling.

    The entire perspective is really about understanding both sides of the coin market and being a realist in terms of the value of coins, particularly the ones you own personally.
    Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not sell coins... that would be a learning experience for me. I do buy coins.. and I feel

    that usually I get a fair deal.... I have overpaid for a few, but I really wanted them, so I do

    not feel bad about it. Cheers, RickO
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not sell coins... that would be a learning experience for me. I do buy coins.. and I feel

    that usually I get a fair deal.... I have overpaid for a few, but I really wanted them, so I do

    not feel bad about it. Cheers, RickO
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    unclebobunclebob Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ricko
    I do not sell coins... that would be a learning experience for me. I do buy coins.. and I feel
    that usually I get a fair deal.... I have overpaid for a few, but I really wanted them, so I do
    not feel bad about it. Cheers, RickO


    Have you ever regretted a purchase? Or are you disciplined enough with your ability to choose coins? I find the approach admirable.

    It's taken a few hard lessons over the years and going through some hard times when forced to sell.

    I feel no longer like a fish.

    I may have made the transition to shark.

    I'm much more selective in quality and balance cost/resale
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,945 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The biggest winners are usually the guys that have figured out when it's OK to overpay.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know perfectly well how to buy "at the right price"



    getting the other guy to learn how to sell at the right price is the tricky part

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If one does enough research ...technically you would not need to sell any coins.
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    mirabelamirabela Posts: 4,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not sure there's a magic number of transactions, and I'm sure somebody else could have learned what I know with fewer "lessons," but -- I think I have a pretty realistic sense of what I could realize if I had to liquidate my holdings tomorrow -- and how much I'd be leaving on the table compared to taking a month, or a year, to do the same.
    mirabela
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    0.





    If you have the patience to learn how to properly grade and gain expertise in a specific area that is fairly ripe to find bargains at shows, auctions, etc....then you can literally buy a good coin on every purchase. This was much the way it was in 1974 when I started looking for under-rated seated coinage that was priced ridiculously in the guides. It wasn't hard to find coins that were worth 2X to 3X what you paid even when paying "apparent retail" from dealers. This knowledge could be gained in 6-12 months just by looking at thousands of coins at shows, shops, and auctions.



    Is it easy to do? Probably not. But it can be done. Most of us still find ways of running into frequent mistakes along the way. You can learn market pricing just by frequent exposure to the market and tracking what coins sell for at shows, auctions, and private party.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: mirabela
    I think I have a pretty realistic sense of what I could realize if I had to liquidate my holdings tomorrow -- and how much I'd be leaving on the table compared to taking a month, or a year, to do the same.


    I have been wanting to do a spreadsheet with those three price columns.

    Liquidate via ebay 99 cent auctions

    6 months to sell

    2 years to sell

    All of course would have to be educated guesses

    Cost would not be important for this little exercise

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