$10 gold opinions?? Grades posted

Bigbuck1975 · December 19, 2015 10:45AM

Will they grade? I know my pics are bad. Grades in, 1851-o AU53, 1844-o AU55

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GRANDAM · December 19, 2015 12:41PM

1851-O - Genuine Polished

1844-O - XF-40

mannie gray · December 19, 2015 3:16PM

I'll say no on both.

1st one looks cleaned, second has too much rim chatter.

keyman64 · December 19, 2015 3:17PM

Although not my series, I would also guess no on both. They would not be for me.

dcarr · December 19, 2015 3:38PM

Maybe.

I don't think the 1851-O is polished. Rim marks are prevalent, but not really out-of-the-ordinary or overly-large for large early gold.

1851-O : possibly as high as AU-55 if not hair-lined.

1844-O : possibly as high as AU-53 if not hair-lined.

But the pictures are not very good for grading purposes.

Boosibri · December 19, 2015 3:54PM

If I had to bet I'd guess no and no

291fifth · December 19, 2015 4:42PM

Based on the photos I would pass on both. The first looks to have unoriginal surfaces and the second has rim problems.

Treashunt · December 19, 2015 8:30PM

I agree, #1- polished

#2, could pass

coinkat · December 19, 2015 9:24PM

I am unable to offer a reasonable opinion without seeing them in hand first- good luck with the submission if you proceed

kaz · December 19, 2015 9:54PM

I won't venture to guess, as the images don't yield much as to surface condition. sorry.

BillJones · December 19, 2015 10:09PM

I am not sure how anyone can judge that these pieces can't be graded from these photos. The proper details are just not there. I believe that both have been cleaned, but I can't tell how badly. Both have EF-AU sharpness with some rim issues.

This coin from the same era has been graded AU-58, and is very solid for the grade. If the surfaces your pieces look like this, your coins will probably grade.

Bigbuck1975 · December 19, 2015 10:19PM

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Color is like top image, marks are more like bottom image

PerryHall · December 19, 2015 11:23PM

I think they will slab with a straight grade of XF-45 or better at PCGS. Don't forget that early New Orleans gold coins are frequently weakly struck. If there are hairline scratches that aren't showing up in the pics, all bets are off.

darktone · December 20, 2015 2:46AM

Bill jones , the coin you pictured is obviously hairlined from cleaning. That would be a good poster coin for newbies to understand cleaning and hairlines.

BillJones · December 20, 2015 5:24AM

Originally posted by: darktone
Bill jones , the coin you pictured is obviously hairlined from cleaning. That would be a good poster coin for newbies to understand cleaning and hairlines.

You are entitled to your opinion. If you can post a better No Motto $10 Liberty, that you own, go ahead and do it. Here's a hint. Any date during which this design type was issued is rare in true Mint State. I turned an 1861 at $10 grand that had less eye appeal than this one.

darktone · December 20, 2015 6:17AM

Bill, that is not an opinion it's fact. That's very obvious hairling whether it's a million dollar coin or a $500 coin makes no difference on that fact.

dcarr · December 20, 2015 8:17AM

Originally posted by: darktone
Bill jones , the coin you pictured is obviously hairlined from cleaning. That would be a good poster coin for newbies to understand cleaning and hairlines.

The 1853 $10 shown above has a few random hairlines, but they appear to me to be the result of normal handling ("rub") and NOT from "cleaning".

BillJones · December 20, 2015 9:19AM

Thank you, DCarr.

mannie gray · December 20, 2015 9:45AM

The above 1853 $10 coin looks great to me...no issues that I can see.

ricko · December 20, 2015 10:01AM

The gold coin BillJones has shown is not cleaned. Some handling marks, but overall

quite nice. Cheers, RickO

darktone · December 20, 2015 10:07AM

I would like to sell you guys some coins.

GoldCoin98 · December 21, 2015 8:42AM

Originally posted by: darktone
Bill, that is not an opinion it's fact. That's very obvious hairling whether it's a million dollar coin or a $500 coin makes no difference on that fact.

Many many coins in straight graded holders have what you could call "obvious hair lining" or cleaning. The trick is to be able to distinguish when the cleaning/hairlining is severe enough to warrant a no-grade.

GoldCoin98 · December 21, 2015 8:44AM

Btw great coin Bill Jones

TwoSides2aCoin · December 21, 2015 9:03AM

They'll grade, in my book. Send 'em over.

PerryHall · December 21, 2015 9:16AM

Anyone familiar with lightly circulated classic US gold coins knows that light random hairlines are typical and are a result of the wear pattern on these coins. When hairlines are heavy and have a parallel pattern and occur in patches one can usually conclude the coin was cleaned or otherwise messed with. Many times it's a judgment call on the part of the grader.

BryceM · December 21, 2015 10:19AM

If you take what you know about grading silver and apply it to gold, you'll make all sorts of errors. Any gold coin that isn't graded MS (and some that are) will show light random hairlines. It's the nature of the metal composition. The same look on a silver coin will often get a no-grade.

That said, the first coin looks a little "off" to me..... polished maybe. The second coin looks better, and will likely grade out OK. It could just be the photos though.

darktone · December 21, 2015 9:20PM

Originally posted by: PerryHall
Anyone familiar with lightly circulated classic US gold coins knows that light random hairlines are typical and are a result of the wear pattern on these coins. When hairlines are heavy and have a parallel pattern and occur in patches one can usually conclude the coin was cleaned or otherwise messed with. Many times it's a judgment call on the part of the grader.

The hairlining on the obverse are all horizontal. Wow! It's pretty plain this coin has MS details and the net grade of au58 sounds fine but that does not take away the fact its hairlined. It does not matter if it its gold or silver hairlining is hairlining. Not saying it's a bad coin at all.

ColonelJessup · December 22, 2015 1:19AM

Originally posted by: dcarr

Originally posted by: darktone
Bill jones , the coin you pictured is obviously hairlined from cleaning. That would be a good poster coin for newbies to understand cleaning and hairlines.

The 1853 $10 shown above has a few random hairlines, but they appear to me to be the result of normal handling ("rub") and NOT from "cleaning".

Exactly. The pattern of hairlines from a cleaning are much more glaringly prevalent. The ones on this coin are incidental. It would be a good poster child for "incidental hairlines don't indicate cleaning". I rate the coin as superb for its grade.

Edited to add:

daktone, I've held the Childs-Pogue 1804 S$1 PCGS PR68 in-hand. I grade it technical 67. It has several very faint hairlines. Your nuanced grade might be Proof Details. If you have any gold that looks like the '53 $10 in a value range of $5K to $50K that you consider cleaned, please send it to me. This no bluff. Check my credit-worthiness. You can use my insurance to ship it. The "opinion" of my bank wire may outweigh your "fact". Awaiting your PM for shipping instructions. Money talks; bullchit walks.

My thanks to you for the opportunity to vent my morning frustrations. Before your post showed up, I was originally planning to drown a puppy

Sonorandesertrat · December 22, 2015 1:59AM

Gold is dense, but also soft. This means that routine handling (e.g., jostling in a mint bag or in a pocket with other coins) will impart a high number of marks that include minor hairlines, scrapes, etc. If you take what you believe you know about the effect of marks on grading copper, nickel, or silver coins and transfer this to grading gold, you will make numerous mistakes (i.e., repeatedly undergrade coins), particularly when looking at coins in the EF-MS range.

originalisbest · December 22, 2015 2:37AM

Just wanted to chime in with the crowd that says Bill Jones' 1853 $10 isn't a cleaned piece. Quite correct, it's not cleaned in the least.

darktone · December 22, 2015 8:50AM

If you guys can't see all the parallel hairlines going horizontally in this close up and think this occurred naturally I don't know what to say and I give up. Also wanted to say I think this coin is fine for the grade. Au58's in these without problems are pretty beat up. Bills coin without the hairlines is a 62 or better in my opinion.

LindeDad · December 22, 2015 8:56AM

Originally posted by: Boosibri

If I had to bet I'd guess no and no

PerryHall · December 22, 2015 9:26AM

Originally posted by: darktone

I would like to sell you guys some coins.

I'd like to buy your gold coins with a few stray hairlines at cleaned coin prices. What do you have?

darktone · December 22, 2015 10:14AM

I do, I can't wait to get top dollar for them.

golden · December 22, 2015 10:38AM

Originally posted by: 291fifth
Based on the photos I would pass on both. The first looks to have unoriginal surfaces and the second has rim problems.

darktone · December 22, 2015 12:08PM

ColonelJessup · December 22, 2015 10:09PM

Originally posted by: darktone

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

BillJones · December 22, 2015 11:07PM

Originally posted by: ColonelJessup

Originally posted by: darktone

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

I agree he's a troll.

darktone · December 22, 2015 11:35PM

Bill, you have trolled me with pm's. And quite a while ago you said you said your last word. If you are going to post pictures of your coins you have to take the comments you don't like along with the ones you do. All I said was the coin has obvious hairlines.

TwoSides2aCoin · December 22, 2015 11:37PM

The OP should (and I hate to should on people ) send the coin in rather than get a "debate" here. I'll pay the Shipping fees.

ColonelJessup · December 23, 2015 8:11AM

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin
The OP should (and I hate to should on people ) send the coin in rather than get a "debate" here. I'll pay the Shipping fees.

Cleaning kills the first one, but rim nicks won't cause "details" on 44-O. XF45 likely based on appearance of frost. Could 50. Perryhall's observations on O-mint strikes is right on.

Bigbuck1975 · December 23, 2015 8:30AM

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin
The OP should (and I hate to should on people ) send the coin in rather than get a "debate" here. I'll pay the Shipping fees.

They have both been submitted. We'll see what that holds.

Riverfront · December 23, 2015 8:38AM

1 - Cleaned

2 - I will go AU53. Though I would expect to see some more luster tucked away. Maybe it is just the pics.

originalisbest · December 23, 2015 10:25AM

Originally posted by: darktone
If you guys can't see all the parallel hairlines going horizontally in this close up and think this occurred naturally I don't know what to say and I give up. Also wanted to say I think this coin is fine for the grade. Au58's in these without problems are pretty beat up. Bills coin without the hairlines is a 62 or better in my opinion.

There are indeed lines there; however, they aren't lines indicative of a cleaning. Since you don't know what to say and give up, this will probably be the last post in this thread.

TwoSides2aCoin · December 23, 2015 11:25AM

Well then let me guess AU 50 and XF 45 , and anyway the worst case scenario is "genuine", and that's not bad

(in my opinion)

Cougar1978 · December 24, 2015 3:20AM

I would send them in and see how it shakes out. From the photos and not having the benefit of rotating them in 100 watt light to gauge luster, etc its difficult to tell.

Bigbuck1975 · January 13, 2016 12:18PM

Both graded

1851-O - AU53
1844-O - AU55

jcping · January 13, 2016 12:31PM

1851-O cleaned

1844-O very marginal to be assigned a grade in a PCGS holder. Chance is 50-50.

1853 no brainier, a very nice coin.

Bigbuck1975 · January 13, 2016 12:40PM

Originally posted by: jcping
1851-O cleaned
1844-O very marginal to be assigned a grade in a PCGS holder. Chance is 50-50.

1853 no brainier, a very nice coin.

Grades above

dcarr · January 13, 2016 1:13PM

Originally posted by: Bigbuck1975
Will they grade? I know my pics are bad. Grades in, 1851-o AU53, 1844-o AU55

Originally posted by: dcarr
Maybe.

I don't think the 1851-O is polished. Rim marks are prevalent, but not really out-of-the-ordinary or overly-large for large early gold.

1851-O : possibly as high as AU-55 if not hair-lined.

1844-O : possibly as high as AU-53 if not hair-lined.

But the pictures are not very good for grading purposes.

So I was pretty close.

CuKevin · January 13, 2016 5:44PM

Originally posted by: mannie gray
I'll say no on both.
1st one looks cleaned, second has too much rim chatter.

I will buy all of your "details" coins with that much rim chatter.

$10 gold opinions?? Grades posted

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