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How did 18th century and early 19th century coins survive to today in mint state condition? Post you
TopographicOceans
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Even though it is technically a contract piece (the first to be issued by the authority of the newly created US government) my earliest MS coin is this 1787 Fugio cent.
I paid a 1 point penalty to cross it from a NGC MS62 to PCGS MS61, but I've moved a lot of my coins to PCGS during their crossover special earlier this year.
But how did this and other coins survive in mint state condition from when they were first minted up until today?
At some point a collector had to put it aside to keep, but I'd imagine the number of 18th and early 19th century collectors were few are far between.
Who preserved these early coins from circulation? Is there any recorded history about this?
Post your earliest MS coin and what do think the history of it is, especially in the early days of its life.
And what about this 1795 $5 gold piece that sold for $2.2m last week. Though there is a modern provenance, it looks like someone took it fresh off the press and stored it for 220 years.
I paid a 1 point penalty to cross it from a NGC MS62 to PCGS MS61, but I've moved a lot of my coins to PCGS during their crossover special earlier this year.
But how did this and other coins survive in mint state condition from when they were first minted up until today?
At some point a collector had to put it aside to keep, but I'd imagine the number of 18th and early 19th century collectors were few are far between.
Who preserved these early coins from circulation? Is there any recorded history about this?
Post your earliest MS coin and what do think the history of it is, especially in the early days of its life.
And what about this 1795 $5 gold piece that sold for $2.2m last week. Though there is a modern provenance, it looks like someone took it fresh off the press and stored it for 220 years.
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I believe this is the earliest MS coin I've had from the United States.
That half cent will do quite nicely.
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
<< <i>I was hoping somebody would post an MS Draped Bust cent.
That half cent will do quite nicely.
I handled this one a few years ago it was MS64
What about the Smithsonian or other museums? Do or did they ever get coins directly from the mint.
To me, the majority of people of those eras had to actually work for their money and it seems they would have rather spent it on food, clothes, rent, some dairy cows or other trivial items.
I guess other than collectors, banks would have been the number one place where coins were preserved.
<< <i>Were there dignitaries that were given coins fresh from the mint, or do we just owe everything to earlier generations of collectors?
What about the Smithsonian or other museums? Do or did they ever get coins directly from the mint.
To me, the majority of people of those eras had to actually work for their money and it seems they would have rather spent it on food, clothes, rent, some dairy cows or other trivial items.
I guess other than collectors, banks would have been the number one place where coins were preserved. >>
The 1804 dollars were given to dignitaries.
As for collectors, William Strickland picked up many pieces during his US visit from September 20, 1794, until July 29, 1795.
<< <i>The survival of the earlier US federal coins was the luck of the draw. Some got put away by mistake or misplaced....only to be discovered decades later when they had become collectibles. Wasn't the 1794 MS66+ Lord St Oswald FH dollar just a matter of luck? Someone picked selected some US coins to take back to England...including the 1794 $. And they survived....unknown to the general US coin market until the early 1960's. >>
That someone was William Strickland, 6th Baron Boynton, an avid coin collector who, among other things, spent time with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. He spent 10 months in the US doing agricultural research which resulted in his publication "Journal of a Tour of the United States of America, 1794–95." The coin stayed within his family for almost 170 years before being sold in 1964. Here's the history on the Strickland-Oswald 1794 FH dollar from the auction description. It's pretty cool that Washington was a collector. Are the whereabouts of his collection known today?
<< <i>Though the name "Lord St. Oswald" is now inseparable from the coins of Nostell Priory, the man who actually collected these coins was named William Strickland. David Tripp has uncovered and reanimated Strickland's extraordinary visit to the United States, which lasted from September 20, 1794, until July 29, 1795. Strickland was a collector of many things, including coins, and he appears to have gathered a sensible and organized grouping of American coins during his 10-month visit. The coins from the Lord St. Oswald / Strickland collection span the breadth of the Philadelphia Mint's production until the time of Strickland's departure from Philadelphia at the end of July 1795, ranging from half cents to dollars, from a lightly worn Chain cent to perfect gem coins struck in the weeks before his return home. Further, the coins struck after that date, including 1795-dated gold coins, Draped Bust issues, and more, are not present here, suggesting that his American collection was formed entirely during his visit and never augmented later. He rubbed elbows with John Adams in Massachusetts, raised glasses with George Washington, and talked farming with Thomas Jefferson at Monticello. Each of those men being collectors, perhaps coins and medals came up in conversation as well. When George Washington hosted another foreign visitor in June 1798, the Polish poet and warrior Julian Ursyn Niemcewicz, he recalled that during his visit to Mount Vernon, "Mrs. Washington showed me a small collection of medals struck during the Revolution" including "one of at least 100 ducats in gold, with the head closely resembling that of G[enera]l. Washington." Strickland's interests were so diverse, he undoubtedly found much to discuss with each of the Founders he encountered. >>
Latin American Collection
1847 1C N1 (all four digits repunched to the East) ANACS MS62
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
or high grade. The first and most common source of high end examples was the practice
of the banks and financial institutions to keep specie (coins) as backing for currency. Some
coins survived simply by getting "lost" in the back of the vault or kept as emergency change
in stores. Running out of small change could wreck a store's business for the day so having
a few rolls of cents tucked away could be important. Coins also got "lost" in other ways when
they were repurposed such as using a keg of large cents to prop a door open. In modern times
BU coins (very low denomination) have been found in use as elevator counterweights!
Coins also get "lost in the cracks" and will literally come out of the woodwork when their value
increases. Brand new coins get built into the walls of houses to mark the construction date or
the year they were renovated. Tourists save coins for souvenirs and take them home to their
own countries. Collectors everywhere set aside coins for their personal collections, future col-
lectors, or future profit.
The specific means by which old US coins were saved in pristine condition varies by type. Bust
half dollars, for instance, were widely saved as specie especially between the 1820's and 1870's.
'30's gold was saved in Europe by speculators and hoarders.
Few people realize how poorly all these process apply to post-1964 coinage. It has not tradi-
tionally been set aside and it isn't used for specie. With increased commerce and proximity to
supplies of coin emergency supplies of coins is less necessary. The mint began rotating their
coin stocks in 1972 so kegs of coins will not get lost in the backof a vault. No one would con-
sider using clad coin for ballast for an elevator. Clad coins built into the walls of houses will not
remain pristine because of the higher reactivity of copper/ nickel. Fifty year old clads in collec-
tions will unceremoniously be hauled to the bank by the dealer who buys the collection. Coins
that are lost often end up in the garbage stream and won't survive poor storage in any case.
There are a lot of US and world base metal moderns that are quite scarce in mint state despite
their massive mintages. In some cases they are even tough in poor condition because the is-
suing authority recalled the coins and melted them for scrap metal.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
Meanwhile people forget the nature of paradise, its name, and its location. It's a shame that
this era of human history will be poorly represented numismatically. The age of space travel,
the internet, and mass communications will just be remembered by other means (providing the
clouds don't dissipate
"To (name)/ An American Guinea/ Christmas (some year circa 1800)"
Obviously this was received as a gift by somebody in an upper-class British family that could afford to keep it and pass it down as a family heirloom.
TD
<< <i>Who preserved these early coins from circulation? Is there any recorded history about this? >>
On February 19, 1834 the "Report on Gold and Silver Coins to Congress, from the Select Committee on Coins," 133 pages printed by Gales & Seaton, of which I have an original copy, it was stated that of the 7 to 8 million dollars in silver coins existing in the United States in 1834, about 4 million was held in banks (total US silver minted to 1934 was 28 million dollars). Gold coins prior to 1834 circulated even less, as explained in the report. Also, a certain amount of coins from a drawer at the Mint was determined to be the property of the Robert Scot estate, which certainly ended up in collectors hands. Both of these were published for the first time in more detail, in my biography of Robert Scot.
And great reply cladking!
I've also wondered about this very topic. Also, with the small size of our young country in the late 1700's, it's fun to fantasize who all handled the more circulated coins from that era.
I believe there is a good chance that some of our iconic Founders handled the very coins we have in our collections! Can you imagine Ben Franklin or Sam Adams plopping down a couple of large cents (that are now in your collection) for a mug of beer at the local tavern?
......I collect old stuff......
And the value is the same for this coin in each of those 4 different grades?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
1564-94 Austria Hall Taler - Archduke Ferdinand - NGC AU-58
1632 Austria Leopold Taler
1654 Austria Hall Taler (DAV-3367) Archduke Ferdinand -- NGC AU-58
1784 Netherlands/Utrecht Silver Ducaton
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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My YouTube Channel
From what I have read, there are about 20 high grade examples of this coin.
Lance.
Thanks for sharing.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
<< <i>boiler78, all that can be said is WOW!
Thanks for sharing. >>
Indeed. Since the current October coin on the PCGS calendar is a nicely toned Pillar dollar, I thought of the Boiler78 coin.
<< <i>
What an amazing piece.
<< <i>What an amazing piece. >>
I was gonna say that about Smeagle's ancient, but then I say that about pretty much ALL of his ancients.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
YOU SUCK!
<< <i>Here is my earliest MS coin. The most logical answer to your question is that a collector set it aside and it has since been passed down by collectors over the years.
pretty, but...
isn't that a gouge to the right of the date?
If so, how did it grade?
BHNC #203
<< <i>This is my earliest MS coin. PCGS called it a 58 (OGH) but they're wrong.
Lance.
agreed, looks unc.
I'd call it at least AU-63!
BHNC #203