As silver gets cheaper, will the Silver Eagle premium hurt sales?
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As the silver price falls, the percentage premium paid for Silver Eagles rises. Right now the premium is over 24% for monster boxes, compared to around 9% for an equivalent number of generic rounds. If silver keeps declining this spread will increase. At some point I think it will no longer make financial sense to stack silver eagles, and it might even become profitable to trade them for a larger stash of silver rounds.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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<< <i>As the silver price falls, the percentage premium paid for Silver Eagles rises. Right now the premium is over 24% for monster boxes, compared to around 9% for an equivalent number of generic rounds. If silver keeps declining this spread will increase. At some point I think it will no longer make financial sense to stack silver eagles, and it might even become profitable to trade them for a larger stash of silver rounds.
Thoughts? >>
You make an assumption... And one that historically is wrong...
Silver Eagles sold quite easily at 8,9,10,11,12 bucks a pop for decades...
It never made financial sense to stack silver Eagles if one has them currently in their possession, possibly in the future with a clear entry and exit plan, it might be a possibility...
If so, then no price is too high. Happiness is precious
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Silver Eagles sold quite easily at 8,9,10,11,12 bucks a pop for decades... >>
Did the Mint charge a $3.50 premium for Silver Eagles in the 1990s? I thought it was lower.
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He said he was getting low on the 2015 ASEs. He said people are buying and the Mint is "supposed" to be shipping more next week but his attitude was "wait and see".
I knew it would happen.
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<< <i>Silver Eagles sold quite easily at 8,9,10,11,12 bucks a pop for decades... >>
Did the Mint charge a $3.50 premium for Silver Eagles in the 1990s? I thought it was lower. >>
I don't believe so: "United States Mint's Authorized Purchasers are charged the price of silver plus $2.00 per coin premium."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>As the silver price falls, the percentage premium paid for Silver Eagles rises. Right now the premium is over 24% for monster boxes, compared to around 9% for an equivalent number of generic rounds. If silver keeps declining this spread will increase. At some point I think it will no longer make financial sense to stack silver eagles, and it might even become profitable to trade them for a larger stash of silver rounds.
Thoughts? >>
What is the mint supposed to do, sell at a loss or cut their premium? Right now at spot $14.69 from the BullionDirect site, the Mint's premium to an AP for a MB is $1000 or 12%. If they are selling coins struck from $17 silver, they're already taking it in the shorts.
For many, ASEs are the most trusted and safest form of silver. Silver price is low [relatively speaking] and likely headed lower. So demand is UP because of the lower price. Supply is LOW because of high demand. When demand exceeds or strains supply, prices rise. They'll keep rising until supply increases or demand falls.
<< <i>I've bought them for $1.50 per coin over spot on the secondary market. Like many mint products they can be found on the secondary market at a discount over what the mint or the major distributers charge. >>
Sounds like someone is taking it up that place where the sun don't shine.
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<< <i>I've bought them for $1.50 per coin over spot on the secondary market. Like many mint products they can be found on the secondary market at a discount over what the mint or the major distributers charge. >>
Sounds like someone is taking it up that place where the sun don't shine. >>
Not really. It's still $1.50 over melt for what is essentially common bullion. Check what APMEX, JM Bullion, or Provident is paying for ASE's on the secondary market.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>As the silver price falls, the percentage premium paid for Silver Eagles rises. Right now the premium is over 24% for monster boxes, compared to around 9% for an equivalent number of generic rounds. If silver keeps declining this spread will increase. At some point I think it will no longer make financial sense to stack silver eagles, and it might even become profitable to trade them for a larger stash of silver rounds.
Thoughts? >>
What is the mint supposed to do, sell at a loss or cut their premium? Right now at spot $14.69 from the BullionDirect site, the Mint's premium to an AP for a MB is $1000 or 12%. If they are selling coins struck from $17 silver, they're already taking it in the shorts.
For many, ASEs are the most trusted and safest form of silver. Silver price is low [relatively speaking] and likely headed lower. So demand is UP because of the lower price. Supply is LOW because of high demand. When demand exceeds or strains supply, prices rise. They'll keep rising until supply increases or demand falls. >>
The mint has a hedging partner on silver, a lease partner on platinum and a buy to replace deal with the US Treasury on gold
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<< <i>
<< <i>I've bought them for $1.50 per coin over spot on the secondary market. Like many mint products they can be found on the secondary market at a discount over what the mint or the major distributers charge. >>
Sounds like someone is taking it up that place where the sun don't shine. >>
Not really. It's still $1.50 over melt for what is essentially common bullion. Check what APMEX, JM Bullion, or Provident is paying for ASE's on the secondary market. >>
JMBullion doesn't buy from individuals and doesn't post buy prices. They likely get coins from APs or maybe other dealers who are overstocked. With spot at $14.69 per BullionDirect, APMEX is paying $1.90 over and Provident the same. Silver is at it's LOWEST price since 2015 ASE coins were available, so the best possible price would be right from the Mint at $16.69 per coin. There is no way in hell that it would have been possible to have bought 2015 ASEs at a price low enough to have been able to sell at a profit at $1.50 over. Maybe you are buying damaged coins?
I'd say that most stackers/buyers DON'T hedge their ASEs, so their basis is their actual cost. Do you buy an equivalent amount of paper silver for every ounce of physical?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"Keep on scratching" Apmex just recently went to $1.90 from $1.50 but you have to pay shipping & insurance.
<< <i>Few in our area offer $1.50 over spot. Most are less and some only offer spot. I tell them
"Keep on scratching" Apmex just recently went to $1.90 from $1.50 but you have to pay shipping & insurance. >>
it will cost ya either way
<< <i>I asked a bullion dealer for his pricing yesterday at the St. Louis show. ASEs @ $20.00, Silver Maples @ $18.00.
He said he was getting low on the 2015 ASEs. He said people are buying and the Mint is "supposed" to be shipping more next week but his attitude was "wait and see". >>
So how were ASE sales at $20 a pop?
<< <i>I'm talking about buying from some fellow collectors (I belong to two coin clubs) that want to unload a few rolls of ASE's for instant cash and don't want to pay for shipping and waiting for a check from one of the major bullion dealers. I've also gotten some good deals on the BST forum here. It doesn't happen often but there can be some good deals out there. Ask your local B&M coin shops what they are paying for ASE's and let us know what you find out. >>
It doesn't really matter. I kinda know what they might be paying. The thing is that if you are selling today even at $2 over, you are probably taking a loss. Really doesn't matter if you bought current year or other years. Of course there are always going to be some folks who are hard up for money and willing to sell stuff for what they can get for it. Obviously one would expect to get less from a dealer than he would from one of his potential customers, but many don't want the hassle of trying to market their stuff.
Find out what they are charging and put yours on CL for $.50 a coin less.
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<< <i>I'm talking about buying from some fellow collectors (I belong to two coin clubs) that want to unload a few rolls of ASE's for instant cash and don't want to pay for shipping and waiting for a check from one of the major bullion dealers. I've also gotten some good deals on the BST forum here. It doesn't happen often but there can be some good deals out there. Ask your local B&M coin shops what they are paying for ASE's and let us know what you find out. >>
It doesn't really matter. I kinda know what they might be paying. The thing is that if you are selling today even at $2 over, you are probably taking a loss. >>
Not probably, but definitely taking a loss. The bullion dealers will pay $1.90 over if you are selling, but if you are buying from them, consider $2.50 over, a bargain.
<< <i>So could one expect around $20 per to be the norm now with silver down? >>
That would be a heck of a premium over melt---more than $5 per coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>So could one expect around $20 per to be the norm now with silver down? >>
That would be a heck of a premium over melt---more than $5 per coin. >>
Yeah it is. But I am not seeing them come down all that much as spot has fallen. What's your thoughts?
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<< <i>So could one expect around $20 per to be the norm now with silver down? >>
That would be a heck of a premium over melt---more than $5 per coin. >>
Yeah it would, eBay prices sure but anyway else that sounds nuts.
With silver at $14.74 - $17/each sounds fair.
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<< <i>
<< <i>So could one expect around $20 per to be the norm now with silver down? >>
That would be a heck of a premium over melt---more than $5 per coin. >>
Yeah it would, eBay prices sure but anyway else that sounds nuts.
With silver at $14.74 - $17/each sounds fair. >>
You mite be lucky to get a monster box from an AP for $3 over. If you're buying to resell then you gotta add on your markup.
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<< <i>As the silver price falls, the percentage premium paid for Silver Eagles rises. Right now the premium is over 24% for monster boxes, compared to around 9% for an equivalent number of generic rounds. If silver keeps declining this spread will increase. At some point I think it will no longer make financial sense to stack silver eagles, and it might even become profitable to trade them for a larger stash of silver rounds.
Thoughts? >>
You make an assumption... And one that historically is wrong...
Silver Eagles sold quite easily at 8,9,10,11,12 bucks a pop for decades...
It never made financial sense to stack silver Eagles if one has them currently in their possession, possibly in the future with a clear entry and exit plan, it might be a possibility... >>
At $8-12 silver, premiums were quite small and competitive with other silver products. No longer the case. This itself speaks of more recent preference for silver eagles over generic silver. If you are buying silver it would be wise to listen to what this is telling you.
Currently high premiums for eagles are the result of most sellers being underwater. High premiums will be cured by rising silver prices.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>As the silver price falls, the percentage premium paid for Silver Eagles rises. Right now the premium is over 24% for monster boxes, compared to around 9% for an equivalent number of generic rounds. If silver keeps declining this spread will increase. At some point I think it will no longer make financial sense to stack silver eagles, and it might even become profitable to trade them for a larger stash of silver rounds.
Thoughts? >>
You make an assumption... And one that historically is wrong...
Silver Eagles sold quite easily at 8,9,10,11,12 bucks a pop for decades...
It never made financial sense to stack silver Eagles if one has them currently in their possession, possibly in the future with a clear entry and exit plan, it might be a possibility... >>
At $8-12 silver, premiums were quite small and competitive with other silver products. No longer the case. This itself speaks of more recent preference for silver eagles over generic silver. If you are buying silver it would be wise to listen to what this is telling you.
Currently high premiums for eagles are the result of most sellers being underwater. High premiums will be cured by rising silver prices. >>
Yes the " preference" equals ignorance... It's just they keep on payin it til they won't...
High premiums then may never be cured, and for sure set you back even more based on actual metal received based on actual price paid per oz...
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<< <i>anyone know of any deals in ase's? i posted it a few days ago, but this is the largest buy/sell spread i have seen posted at apmex. it hit over 1k this week between their buy and their sell prices. >>
$18.33/ea at Texas Precious Metals. That's buying 20 pcs dated 2015. Linked
<< <i>anyone know of any deals in ase's? i posted it a few days ago, but this is the largest buy/sell spread i have seen posted at apmex. it hit over 1k this week between their buy and their sell prices. >>
What's buy spread have to do with actual buy price?...
It's meaningless, focusing on meaningless info, another reason why people shouldn't be investing in silver eagles, but collecting only...edit to add eagles...
The spread is just their published liquidity price if you sell to them the second after you buy from them...
<< <i>Currently high premiums for eagles are the result of most sellers being underwater. High premiums will be cured by rising silver prices. >>
Or by sellers lowering their prices due to lack of buyers.
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<< <i>Was at a b&m today. They wanted 21 for an ASE. I could not help myself I had to laugh >>
For one single ASE? Sounds like a pretty good price. Was he willing to throw in a flip, and his time in speaking with you? How about a little bag to carry your purchase, and print you a receipt?
(not to mention the overhead of actually running a store what with rent, insurance, supplies, and more of his time dealing with chuckleheads asking the price of one loosie? )
I'll bet you were not the only one that could not help himself from laughing
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Just another sign not to invest in silver eagles, buyers of 1....
The buy-sell spread is a good indication of whether or not you want to do business with that dealer at that particular moment. If he's buried in a position, you aren't about to get any sort of deal, except maybe a bad one.
I knew it would happen.
Edit: the good news is that I did get a few 64 Kennedy's at 10x.
I generally prefer 90% for divisibility. And from what I've been reading 90% is getting difficult to get. When silver was crushed to $8-$9/oz in October 2008, it wasn't easy to find at those levels. Premiums caused a lot of it to be priced at $10-$12/oz. That's very similar to the crash period we're currently in....premiums rise because paper silver futures are crushing the price....not physical bullion flooding the market. Silver was also $8-$9 in early 2006 as the market steadily rose. I'm sure silver was readily available at reasonable premiums. You can't really expect the same availability at the same price....in two totally different market conditions (Jan 2006 vs. July 2015).
If you want downside protection pre 1921 morgans have always been better at that than ASE's. Better protection would be just don't buy to flip right now at all.
<< <i>Was at a b&m today. They wanted 21 for an ASE. I could not help myself I had to laugh >>
I went to Walmart. They wanted $3.89/pound for ground beef. I told them that the price of beef dropped 30¢ recently. They laughed at me.
You see, the inventory they had on the shelf was bought at a higher price than the market was at the time. Just because I wanted to buy some hamburger meat and the world price was lower that day, were they to automatically discount it and possibly break even or lose money on the sale just because I thought they should?
Of course, they COULD be greedy pigs and are gouging the public................or are trying to, heaven forbid, make a small profit to put a kid thru college or buy groceries at the locally owned IGA.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Was at a b&m today. They wanted 21 for an ASE. I could not help myself I had to laugh >>
I went to Walmart. They wanted $3.89/pound for ground beef. I told them that the price of beef dropped 30¢ recently. They laughed at me.
You see, the inventory they had on the shelf was bought at a higher price than the market was at the time. Just because I wanted to buy some hamburger meat and the world price was lower that day, were they to automatically discount it and possibly break even or lose money on the sale just because I thought they should?
Of course, they COULD be greedy pigs and are gouging the public................or are trying to, heaven forbid, make a small profit to put a kid thru college or buy groceries at the locally owned IGA. >>
If a dealer is buried in overpriced inventory, is it really the buyer's responsibility to bail out the dealer? Why shouldn't the PM buyer do some comparison shopping to find the best deal?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>
<< <i>Was at a b&m today. They wanted 21 for an ASE. I could not help myself I had to laugh >>
I went to Walmart. They wanted $3.89/pound for ground beef. I told them that the price of beef dropped 30¢ recently. They laughed at me.
You see, the inventory they had on the shelf was bought at a higher price than the market was at the time. Just because I wanted to buy some hamburger meat and the world price was lower that day, were they to automatically discount it and possibly break even or lose money on the sale just because I thought they should?
Of course, they COULD be greedy pigs and are gouging the public................or are trying to, heaven forbid, make a small profit to put a kid thru college or buy groceries at the locally owned IGA. >>
shoulda asked if they had any 12 year old beef in the freezer?
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
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Consideribg Apmex isn't paying spot, it's probably not a good decision to be buying 90 percent silver. Their spread is almost 30 percent. You could make a killing trading paper before even breaking even on that kind of propositon with physical. >>
Head fake
<< <i> Considering Apmex isn't paying spot, it's probably not a good decision to be buying 90 percent silver. Their spread is almost 30 percent. You could make a killing trading paper before even breaking even on that kind of proposition with physical. >>
And it's probably also a good decision not to be selling your 90% for spot either. I didn't find anyone selling under a $4-$5 premium to spot...other than Heritage looking to blow out a few thousand oz. at +$3.75.
Please give me your paper silver trade today to make a >30% killing for anytime into the near future. I'd like to see how this works out. Silver is currently $14.75.
<< <i>Lol, they sell higher while spot goes lower, only in America... >>
Actually, all around the world you'll find the same market forces. Generally, bullion premiums expand when prices are low and contract at high prices.
Fwiw, there is at least one buyer on our BST offering $17.20 (+$2.40). So apparently, a significant portion of that spread is real. Don't sell to ApMex. Sell it on the BST
You can buy all the junk rounds, scrap, and bars you want at lower premiums. That's your choice. The market has often dictated during the past 6 years that considerable premiums are afforded to sovereign silver. Don't blame me. Blame the buyers for paying up for a higher quality, more liquid, more proven level of bullion. Works the same way in US Numismatic coins. You can probably buy all the lower quality silver bars and rounds you want for $15.50-$15.70/oz. (+80c). Have at it. This discussion has nothing to do with whether silver is a good buy or not at current levels, only what the current premiums are. If I were a buyer for silver right now I'd probably sit and wait for the two ends to come closer together.
<< <i>None of us were born yesterday. We've all seen this before where dealers take advantage of a momentary problem with distribution and supply due to misplanning and not because the stuff isn't out there in abundance.
One could buy millions of dollars of the silver etf and liquidate in seconds without hassle. That is an efficient liquid market. If you can tolerate dwindling out $50 face bags and shipping all that off to various parties to eke out another buck or two, then you should get a job at Wal Mart. The pay is probably much better. >>
I've yet to see any current or ex-bullion dealers working at Walmart. But if you spot one, let us know....lol. They seem to be able to handle all the "nuisance" stuff pretty well making a living in coins/bullion. Numismatic dealers go through the same stuff of mailing coins all over the country. It's a real pita, I did it for a couple of years in the 1980's. But, a part of the business.....ANY retail business for that matter. Based on some of stuff I read around here, I honestly think a lot of people were born yesterday.
Again, please provide your "easy" +30% trade in the silver paper market. Don't tell us how liquid that paper is, show us your trade. Show us how easy it is to make MILLIONs in seconds. The HUNT brothers didn't fall down until they started playing heavily in the futures markets in mid-1979. Had they just stuck with bullion in their possession, they would have accomplished their goals. At least with the bullion you have it in hand regardless. The digi-strokes of paper silver up in the financial cloud is a different story. At the bottom in 2008 digi-silver was in the $8's. You couldn't buy any bullion quantity of it at under $10-$12 unless you were well-connected. Let us know when you figure out the winning paper trade. But, I'm not holding my breath. What would happen to your MILLION dollars in the silver ETF SLV if it were found the next day they were missing half the bars they claimed? Your "liquid" paper silver investment would collapse overnight, maybe to zero as you'd be one of the last guys in line to be made whole (ie you're not Corzinne). I'll take the physical in hand, even at the higher premium. The state of Texas could have chosen the "easy" way to invest $1 BILL in gold, just buy GLD shares or futures. Instead, they went with physical and all that "pain" and extra expense. And now they want to bring that metal back to a Texas depository....much the same way Germany wants to bring back 2/3 of their gold to the homeland. Don't these guys know that paper gold and keeping your bullion in NY and London is the way to go....LOL.