If you have a CASH funded balance you should not be hit with a fee. Thank you Paypal for acknowledging this and allowing people that have CASH to do commerce freely...and if you didn't want me to have the option you wouldn't offer it.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
"Thank you paypal for not checking to see if I'm ripping you off."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>ok, i'll go into broken record mode if I have to.
If you have a CASH funded balance you should not be hit with a fee. Thank you Paypal for acknowledging this and allowing people that have CASH to do commerce freely...and if you didn't want me to have the option you wouldn't offer it. >>
For the umpteenth time. the source of funds has NOTHING to do with it. If you sell something on eBay and accept PP, you pay the same fees no matter if the buyer pays from an existing balance, a checking account or a CC.
I think while one goes into broken record mode, another goes into" _ _ _ _ _ slap" mode around this place. Why can't we just love one another the old fashioned way ?
Paypal doesn't care if you use the Gift feature 100 times a month. As long as they don't have to cover the transaction they are not going to complain.
Its no different than some banks which allow 2 account holders to make free transfers . I've done that with Bank of America before on bullion deals. Its free between account holders .
Do whatever business you want with paypal gifts as long as there is trust between the parties. If trust breaks down Paypal will not involve itself. One party or both are SOL.
There is no reason instant transfers between paypal accounts should cost anything , computers are doing the work , the work is the same for $5 or $5000 .
There was a pretty good thread about this over on the US coin forum a few months ago .
<< <i>Paypal doesn't care if you use the Gift feature 100 times a month. As long as they don't have to cover the transaction they are not going to complain.
Its no different than some banks which allow 2 account holders to make free transfers . I've done that with Bank of America before on bullion deals. Its free between account holders .
Do whatever business you want with paypal gifts as long as there is trust between the parties. If trust breaks down Paypal will not involve itself. One party or both are SOL.
There is no reason instant transfers between paypal accounts should cost anything , computers are doing the work , the work is the same for $5 or $5000 .
There was a pretty good thread about this over on the US coin forum a few months ago . >>
Excellent summary, and elaborates my one-liner.
Have you noticed, those who complain on PayPal's behalf about PPG being "wrong" also complain about lots of other things "wrong" with the world, that are really none of their business, they just like to complain?
Have you noticed, those who pretend something's OK eventually become convinced it's OK? Using PPG (Personal Payment) is not wrong. Using it for business transactions when you agreed not to is wrong.
To those that advocate ripping off your payment processor, at what point does it become OK to violate an agreement with your buyer to save a few bucks?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
To those that advocate ripping off your payment processor, at what point does it become OK to violate an agreement with your buyer to save a few bucks?
Here's your answer:
There is no reason instant transfers between paypal accounts should cost anything , computers are doing the work , the work is the same for $5 or $5000
Have you noticed, those who complain on PayPal's behalf about PPG being "wrong" also complain about lots of other things "wrong" with the world, that are really none of their business, they just like to complain?
BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I could not agree more Baley!
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
There's a very good reason you should pay a fee when paypal processes a payment for your merchandise - you agreed to pay them the fee.
Again I ask, at what point does it become OK to violate an agreement with your buyer to save a few bucks?
Something else to consider. Since the IRS requires paypal to report your sales to the IRS and paypal views personal gifts as non-sales, the IRS would probably view misuse of Personal Payment as cheating the IRS as well. A lot harder to pretend that's OK.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
PayPal, thru their computers/network is providing a service by transferring money from one party to the next. They are providing the transfer service and doing the transfer. If you use their service you agree to their service agreement. Simple. Does anyone think they themselves can magically transfer money to someone else? Try it without using PayPal if you think you can!
Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
<< <i>PayPal, thru their computers/network is providing a service by transferring money from one party to the next. They are providing the transfer service and doing the transfer. If you use their service you agree to their service agreement. Simple. Does anyone think they themselves can magically transfer money to someone else? Try it without using PayPal if you think you can! >>
and if you believe that there is no cost involved to PayPal for your PPG transaction, you are living in a dream world.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Oh boy! I knew the IRS fear tactic would soon play itself out. If Paypal didn't want me doing transactions and them not getting a fee out of it, they would not allow me to do it. "Simple" enough for a 3rd grader.
Just like how they got busted. Did anyone actually take the time to read the damn article? Geez! This thread has turned into personal feelings on a topic rather than it's intention which was to show that Paypals hands have stink on them too! Read the article. To comment otherwise is an act of hypocrisy in itself.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>Oh boy! I knew the IRS fear tactic would soon play itself out. If Paypal didn't want me doing transactions and them not getting a fee out of it, they would not allow me to do it. "Simple" enough for a 3rd grader.
Just like how they got busted. Did anyone actually take the time to read the damn article? Geez! This thread has turned into personal feelings on a topic rather than it's intention which was to show that Paypals hands have stink on them too! Read the article. To comment otherwise is an act of hypocrisy in itself. >>
The thread is about paypal and deception. The OP points out how paypal is being held accountable for it yet feels it's OK when he's doing the deceiving. Paypal is allowing you to do it because they are not policing the transactions. They made the mistake of trusting you and expecting you to hold up your end of the agreement.
Don't fear the IRS at your own peril. A wise businessman considers the tax implications of all of his business decisions.
FWIW, my bank charges a $25 fee to electronically transfer funds from my account to someone else's account regardless the reason for the transfer. Since there is no way to deceive the bank on this, one can only save the fee by simply mailing a check.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Oh boy! I knew the IRS fear tactic would soon play itself out. If Paypal didn't want me doing transactions and them not getting a fee out of it, they would not allow me to do it. "Simple" enough for a 3rd grader.
Just like how they got busted. Did anyone actually take the time to read the damn article? Geez! This thread has turned into personal feelings on a topic rather than it's intention which was to show that Paypals hands have stink on them too! Read the article. To comment otherwise is an act of hypocrisy in itself. >>
The thread is about paypal and deception. The OP points out how they are being held accountable for it yet feels it's OK when he's doing the deceiving. Paypal is allowing you to do it because they are not policing the transactions. They made the mistake of trusting you and expecting you to hold up your end of the agreement.
Don't fear the IRS at your own peril. A wise businessman considers the tax implications of all of his business decisions.
FWIW, my bank charges a $25 fee to electronically transfer funds from my account to someone else's account regardless the reason for the transfer. Since there is no way to deceive the bank on this, one can only save the fee by simply mailing a check. >>
Or open a high roller account where wire transfers are FREE!
I don't have a problem with anyone accepting personal payments for any reason. Actually, the person making the payment is the one violating the agreement. I believe what they read here on the forum when deciding to use the personal payment option should at least be factual. I do not believe they should be misled into believing it's OK with paypal.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I stay clear of sellers that insist on PPG to circumvent fees. I think they are being deceptive.
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I stay clear of sellers that insist on PPG to circumvent fees. I think they are being deceptive
What about those who offer PPG or regular PP as long as the buyer pays the fee, as I do? I'm curious what the concencus is on this.
In most cases from my experience this is difference is the deal being done or not. The buyer thinks the seller should eat the fee, the seller says you want it, you pay it. I have yet to ever have a buyer offer to SPLIT the fee which I would more than be willing to do, if it is offered. I never offer to because I feel that's something the buyer should offer, not something I suggest.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
TextJust like how they got busted. Did anyone actually take the time to read the damn article?
Yes, I read it. Did you? Perhaps the question should have been "did anyone actually take the time to read and comprehend the article?
Paypal has been accused of these things, a judge will decide at some point in the future whether those charges have merit. It will be interesting to follow.
The thread is about paypal and deception. The OP points out how paypal is being held accountable for it yet feels it's OK when he's doing the deceiving. Paypal is allowing (the account holder) to do it because they are not policing the transactions. They made the mistake of trusting (the account holder) and expecting you to hold up your end of the agreement.
If a person's conscience bothers them, then they shouldn't engage in transactions that they feel are deceitful to anyone involved. Frankly whether or not a person pays with or accepts PPG for goods has zero bearing on my opinion of them. As long as they honor their word and/or the deal I'm good.
As long as they honor their word and/or the deal I'm good.
That's the whole point - they failed to honor their word by using paypal gift for an exchange of goods or services, as they already said they wouldn't do it.
As long as they honor their word and/or the deal I'm good
This is really it in a nutshell. One party pays, the other securely sends the item in a timely manner and if the buyer approves once item is in hand, that's a smooth transaction by me.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>I stay clear of sellers that insist on PPG to circumvent fees. I think they are being deceptive
What about those who offer PPG or regular PP as long as the buyer pays the fee, as I do? I'm curious what the concencus is on this.
In most cases from my experience this is difference is the deal being done or not. The buyer thinks the seller should eat the fee, the seller says you want it, you pay it. I have yet to ever have a buyer offer to SPLIT the fee which I would more than be willing to do, if it is offered. I never offer to because I feel that's something the buyer should offer, not something I suggest. >>
PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved.
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Having one party cover the paypal fee, or both parties splitting the fee, does not violate the T&Cs you agreed to
Well, just like PP enrolling people in something they may not want to be enrolled in because they buried it in the T&C and then think that's ok (until they got caught)...I must've not read that, because it was buried in the T&C.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved
yeah, I don't take personal checks anymore for larger amounts, and if 3% is too much for you to buy the PROTECTION you as the buyer so covet, then I would pass too.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>As long as they honor their word and/or the deal I'm good.
That's the whole point - they failed to honor their word by using paypal gift for an exchange of goods or services, as they already said they wouldn't do it. >>
No it isn't. They made the agreement with PP, not me. If they say they will deliver 5 rolls of ASEs and cover the loss if there is one, I'm good. As I said before I've done plenty of deals that generated a fee for PP and I'm good with that too.
I stay clear of sellers that insist on PPG to circumvent fees. I think they are being deceptive.
The more I read this comment it irks me, for this simple reason. If doing 1000+ transactions on here and not having so much as a peep of bad commentary publicly stated about those transactions sways, or doesn't sway your decision, then I strongly urge you to move on because what you think and what is fact is terribly obvious to be 2 entirely different things. You know, a seller can fire a buyer, just the way a buyer can fire a seller. It's a 2 way street.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved
yeah, I don't take personal checks anymore for larger amounts, and if 3% is too much for you to buy the PROTECTION you as the buyer so covet, then I would pass too. >>
<< <i>PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved
yeah, I don't take personal checks anymore for larger amounts, and if 3% is too much for you to buy the PROTECTION you as the buyer so covet, then I would pass too. >>
Yeah, everyone I do business with takes checks so PP and PPG never comes up. Im not going to pay 3% and I'm not going to "use" PPG to circumvent PP. My point is I won't even consider a BST ad if it includes PPG as part of the deal. Red flag for me.
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved
yeah, I don't take personal checks anymore for larger amounts, and if 3% is too much for you to buy the PROTECTION you as the buyer so covet, then I would pass too. >>
I'd take Mark's personal check no problemmo. >>
You have : )
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I pride myself on being someone to trust and do safe transactions with. I play it fair and straight up. I speak my mind. I don't look for loopholes.
I also read many many many posts on these boards. I try to understand people. I would be very wary of anyone who prides themselves of finding loopholes and cheating a person, or company, out of recompense in the ways of fees. I will look at the whole issue, but when I see repeated patterns, I learn who I won't deal with. While it may be safe today, who's to say that something won't happen in the upcoming future when they decide that there was an issue with the transaction that they didn't like and do something that one would consider as a negative action? People that go for all the loopholes, are proud of not paying fees for services, many times over, are people I would be very wary of.
May be good today, but who knows what tomorrow brings.
Not pointing any one person out, just a generalization. For me, as I have stated before, I have dealt with someone who wanted PPG and I paid the fee, so they got what they wanted, and I felt better about things. I have probably received it before as well. I won't deny a payment for that, but I also won't state that any payment HAS to be PPG. To do so....well......I would rather not do that as PP provides a service that, if they didn't get fees, I wouldn't be able to use the service.
How did we do online transactions before Paypal? Just go back to that. You are not required to use Paypal. Just because Paypal is easy if it's free, doesn't mean that we should cheat the system to get the easy method for free.
I pride myself on being someone to trust and do safe transactions with. I play it fair and straight up. I speak my mind. I don't look for loopholes.
I also read many many many posts on these boards. I try to understand people. I would be very wary of anyone who prides themselves of finding loopholes and cheating a person, or company, out of recompense in the ways of fees. I will look at the whole issue, but when I see repeated patterns, I learn who I won't deal with. While it may be safe today, who's to say that something won't happen in the upcoming future when they decide that there was an issue with the transaction that they didn't like and do something that one would consider as a negative action? People that go for all the loopholes, are proud of not paying fees for services, many times over, are people I would be very wary of.
May be good today, but who knows what tomorrow brings.
Not pointing any one person out, just a generalization. For me, as I have stated before, I have dealt with someone who wanted PPG and I paid the fee, so they got what they wanted, and I felt better about things. I have probably received it before as well. I won't deny a payment for that, but I also won't state that any payment HAS to be PPG. To do so....well......I would rather not do that as PP provides a service that, if they didn't get fees, I wouldn't be able to use the service
I can understand the stance on this and can respect the point of view. If you feel it’s morally wrong then I don’t think anyone can disagree with that. The only thing I would ask is who gives you the impression that they pride themselves with finding a loophole? If you're implying me, two things. You're wrong and even if I did, how would you know? How can that determination be made when nothing has been said as such? If's is' just a comment generally made, my apologies for maybe taking it too personal.
Im not going to pay 3% and I'm not going to "use" PPG to circumvent PP. My point is I won't even consider a BST ad if it includes PPG as part of the deal. Red flag for me. I stay clear of sellers that insist on PPG to circumvent fees. I think they are being deceptive.
What I can’t understand is why not do business just because PPG was included in the payment options asked for, such as when regular PP, checks, money orders are also accepted by the seller. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what is being said. If the seller offers other accepted payments that you DO agree with as morally acceptable ways to essentially pay what it is you’re wanting to purchase, then what’s holding that person back from sending a check or using regular PP? Perceived deception? Deception of what? The seller is accepting what you want to do. Using regular PP provides the protection that you may want for whatever reasons felt needed too. A check does to some degree as well. I just can’t come to understand what the big deal is if the seller is abiding with the buyers wishes.
I'm not whining or complaining as some may jump to the conclusion of, I'm actually trying to learn to be a better, and even more trusted seller.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Interesting thread regarding Paypal and its position on the use of paypal gift (or what is now been reclassified as "friends & family") option.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
And there it is! Using PPG is NOT against their policy. Thank you grote15 for sharing this as I would've never seen it because I rarely frequent the USCF.
So again, in very simple summary since some of you have the attention span of a mouse as evidenced many times by clearly not reading EVERYTHING that is said in a post, all of you who've continuously harped about people who are doing something fraudulent by using PPG for a transaction, YOU ARE WRONG. Whether you feel it is still morally wrong because of some fictitious T&C agreement you interpret wrongly is your decision, but to accuse people of being shady and deceitful is clearly wrong and an apology should be forthcoming from all who've wrongly made these accusations.
Some comments from the thread grote15 provided: I figured if it were outright forbidden, they would have closed that supposed loophole long ago. yes, they would have.
You pay for goods and services when you want their buyer protection. If you don't care about that, then use gift. That's the way I've always done business on paypal. As long as the payment is coming from a checking account or Paypal balance, Paypal themselves say it's ok to use it to send a PPG payment.
consider it a 2.9% insurance premium Then the BUYER should pay for it if they so covet it, not the seller. If the seller offers payment that way, the buyer should take full advantage of it to have their piece of mind. Don't ask the seller to split it either, if you're the buyer, you want it, the seller doesn't. If the seller is willing to split the fee to make the sale, even more so should the buyer proceed.
They don't like it, but they realize it is part of the cost of doing business. Makes good business sense just like the barkeep who serves one up on the house once in awhile. I'll have another, thank you Sir.
It's good to get clarification. However, for goods purchased, especially PM's, it would be a cold day in heck if I'd ever agree to a gift option as payment And that is certainly your choice, but don't call people who use it cheats and crooks.
I will do PP gift if I (believe) know the person. I would never do it on a blind purchase, even on the BST Of course, that's just plain common sense.
I could go on, but point has ben made.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
The problem with services …. someone wants a cut for handling fees. And with PPG, the only guarantee is the bond of trust between the giver and the receiver. As for tithing, I don't tell the IRS how much I give to "HIS" services ( no preaching intended), because of the "left hand"/ "right hand" thing, and that's on "my honor" (a scriptural thing) … and nobody else's (am not to judge). And HE knows who HE puts on my heart before I do…. So that whole "gift" thing, as it were, is a farce for me in business. (separation of church and state here)
Now with business, if I ever get audited, I can't claim 'gifts" with transacting in business, so I don't mix the 2. That keeps me books simple. Why convolute this _ _ _ _ ?
However, this is not a moral dilemma, nor a legal issue for many or me. It's a discussion on "deceptive" practices of a company I happen to be a shareholder of. And for me, I don't view corporations as having "hidden" agendas. Especially those I have a vested interest in because of "sistering" through business/ commercial use.
THis is just me (as a business person) . Please do not take my words as judgement over/ of anyone else (nothing personal ) . I have to speak on my behalf and represent who I am. As to business… It's still "business, as usual".
<< <i>And there it is! Using PPG is NOT against their policy. Thank you grote15 for sharing this as I would've never seen it because I rarely frequent the USCF.
So again, in very simple summary since some of you have the attention span of a mouse as evidenced many times by clearly not reading EVERYTHING that is said in a post, all of you who've continuously harped about people who are doing something fraudulent by using PPG for a transaction, YOU ARE WRONG. Whether you feel it is still morally wrong because of some fictitious T&C agreement you interpret wrongly is your decision, but to accuse people of being shady and deceitful is clearly wrong and an apology should be forthcoming from all who've wrongly made these accusations.
Some comments from the thread grote15 provided: I figured if it were outright forbidden, they would have closed that supposed loophole long ago. yes, they would have.
You pay for goods and services when you want their buyer protection. If you don't care about that, then use gift. That's the way I've always done business on paypal. As long as the payment is coming from a checking account or Paypal balance, Paypal themselves say it's ok to use it to send a PPG payment.
consider it a 2.9% insurance premium Then the BUYER should pay for it if they so covet it, not the seller. If the seller offers payment that way, the buyer should take full advantage of it to have their piece of mind. Don't ask the seller to split it either, if you're the buyer, you want it, the seller doesn't. If the seller is willing to split the fee to make the sale, even more so should the buyer proceed.
They don't like it, but they realize it is part of the cost of doing business. Makes good business sense just like the barkeep who serves one up on the house once in awhile. I'll have another, thank you Sir.
It's good to get clarification. However, for goods purchased, especially PM's, it would be a cold day in heck if I'd ever agree to a gift option as payment And that is certainly your choice, but don't call people who use it cheats and crooks.
I will do PP gift if I (believe) know the person. I would never do it on a blind purchase, even on the BST Of course, that's just plain common sense.
I could go on, but point has ben made. >>
The only thing from the other thread that is not "opinion" is the email from a paypal drone: "We are not encouraging our buyers to send Personal Payments for every item that they/you will purchase. The reason is because you will lose the eligibility to file a dispute with paypal." Note that the drone does not say it is OK to use Personal Payment for business transactions and keep in mind how many times info from an ebay or paypal drone has proven to be incorrect.
Fact remains that the actual agreement defines Personal Payment as "amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill."
The Agreement is not fictitious as you claim (it is posted on their website, unlike a drone email) and the above quote from it leaves no room for misinterpretation.
Quoting forum member opinion and an email from a paypal drone does not change what the agreement clearly says and it definitely does not vindicate anyone who is violating the terms of the agreement by using paypal Personal Payments for sales transactions. Continuing to fool yourself that you are doing nothing wrong does not make it OK. Those who choose to let you interpret the paypal agreement for them would be better served to read it themselves.
FWIW I once won a $2800 paypal claim because a drone told me it was OK to ship and that the paypal details pages that did not say OK to ship was only being delayed in updating to "OK to ship." I insisted on an email from paypal that said OK to ship and ended having to use the email against paypal to get my $2800 returned by paypal. Turns out the drone and email were wrong and the web page was correct, there was a problem with the payment being made to me.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>See how much fuss this electronic money creates.
Go old school and just write a paper check. Lol >>
At least checks don't leave tracks or tracks that are easy to follow. >>
Checks are electronically processed, plenty of digital tracks.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Have your moral opinion and personal interpretation of whatever you think you agreed to, but know that PP advises against it, but it is NOT breaking any agreement by or with them. That's all I've been saying from post 1 about this. Just don't call people who may use PPG deceitful, crooks or of questionable character because you would be wrong in that summation (in most cases). I wont throw out the libel and/or slander charge, but we now know that's what it would be if those accusations were made.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>Have your moral opinion and personal interpretation of whatever you think you agreed to, but know that PP advises against it, but it is NOT breaking any agreement by or with them. That's all I've been saying from post 1 about this. Just don't call people who may use PPG deceitful, crooks or of questionable character because you would be wrong in that summation (in most cases). I wont throw out the libel and/or slander charge, but we now know that's what it would be if those accusations were made. >>
Interpretation of the agreement is not necessary, it is clear in what it states. Per the agreement, making personal payments as payment for merchandise is in violation of the agreement.
Spin it any way you wish, but violating the agreement to save paying a fee is deceitful and by most definitions just plain dishonest. You can argue this forever, but as long as the agreement says what it says you are only fooling yourself.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>See how much fuss this electronic money creates.
Go old school and just write a paper check. Lol >>
At least checks don't leave tracks or tracks that are easy to follow. >>
Checks are electronically processed, plenty of digital tracks. >>
At my bank if I present one and get cash, it doesn't post to my account unless there is a problem. While the bank may have a record of it if you didn't know about the check, you would have a hard time knowing it happened.
Same for postal money orders. I haven't purchased one in years, but I don't recall that they logged it in when you bought one. If I sent one to you and only you and I knew the serial #, the USPS would be hard pressed to trace it without a manual search.
<< <i>And there it is! Using PPG is NOT against their policy. Thank you grote15 for sharing this as I would've never seen it because I rarely frequent the USCF.
So again, in very simple summary since some of you have the attention span of a mouse as evidenced many times by clearly not reading EVERYTHING that is said in a post, all of you who've continuously harped about people who are doing something fraudulent by using PPG for a transaction, YOU ARE WRONG. Whether you feel it is still morally wrong because of some fictitious T&C agreement you interpret wrongly is your decision, but to accuse people of being shady and deceitful is clearly wrong and an apology should be forthcoming from all who've wrongly made these accusations.
Some comments from the thread grote15 provided: I figured if it were outright forbidden, they would have closed that supposed loophole long ago. yes, they would have.
You pay for goods and services when you want their buyer protection. If you don't care about that, then use gift. That's the way I've always done business on paypal. As long as the payment is coming from a checking account or Paypal balance, Paypal themselves say it's ok to use it to send a PPG payment.
consider it a 2.9% insurance premium Then the BUYER should pay for it if they so covet it, not the seller. If the seller offers payment that way, the buyer should take full advantage of it to have their piece of mind. Don't ask the seller to split it either, if you're the buyer, you want it, the seller doesn't. If the seller is willing to split the fee to make the sale, even more so should the buyer proceed.
They don't like it, but they realize it is part of the cost of doing business. Makes good business sense just like the barkeep who serves one up on the house once in awhile. I'll have another, thank you Sir.
It's good to get clarification. However, for goods purchased, especially PM's, it would be a cold day in heck if I'd ever agree to a gift option as payment And that is certainly your choice, but don't call people who use it cheats and crooks.
I will do PP gift if I (believe) know the person. I would never do it on a blind purchase, even on the BST Of course, that's just plain common sense.
I could go on, but point has ben made. >>
You do go on and on and on
We are all wired differently as is our internal moral compass............
If I understand correctly your business payment model is the following: PPG or PP with the buyer paying the 3.0%. I think that model sucks, it is unimaginative and short sighted but hey but if the shoe fits, wear it. If someone won't take my check or provide a no fee solution for the transaction then it's someone I would not want to do business with as a buyer. Your only no fee solution is PPG which is sketchy at best IMO. Pass.
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Interpretation of the agreement is not necessary, it is clear in what it states. Per the agreement, making personal payments as payment for merchandise is in violation of the agreement.
Spin it any way you wish, but violating the agreement to save paying a fee is deceitful and by most definitions just plain dishonest. You can argue this forever, but as long as the agreement says what it says you are only fooling yourself.
If I understand correctly your business payment model is the following: PPG or PP with the buyer paying the 3.0%. I think that model sucks, it is unimaginative and short sighted but hey but if the shoe fits, wear it. If someone won't take my check or provide a no fee solution for the transaction then it's someone I would not want to do business with as a buyer. Your only no fee solution is PPG which is sketchy at best IMO. Pass
I pass as well because you are being offered regular PP which is the underlying reason for the protection ultimately you want.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Comments
If you have a CASH funded balance you should not be hit with a fee. Thank you Paypal for acknowledging this and allowing people that have CASH to do commerce freely...and if you didn't want me to have the option you wouldn't offer it.
"Thank you paypal for not checking to see if I'm ripping you off."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>ok, i'll go into broken record mode if I have to.
If you have a CASH funded balance you should not be hit with a fee. Thank you Paypal for acknowledging this and allowing people that have CASH to do commerce freely...and if you didn't want me to have the option you wouldn't offer it. >>
For the umpteenth time. the source of funds has NOTHING to do with it. If you sell something on eBay and accept PP, you pay the same fees no matter if the buyer pays from an existing balance, a checking account or a CC.
Paypal doesn't care if you use the Gift feature 100 times a month. As long as they don't have to cover the transaction they are not going to complain.
Its no different than some banks which allow 2 account holders to make free transfers . I've done that with Bank of America before on bullion deals. Its free between account holders .
Do whatever business you want with paypal gifts as long as there is trust between the parties. If trust breaks down Paypal will not involve itself. One party or both are SOL.
There is no reason instant transfers between paypal accounts should cost anything , computers are doing the work , the work is the same for $5 or $5000 .
There was a pretty good thread about this over on the US coin forum a few months ago .
<< <i>Paypal doesn't care if you use the Gift feature 100 times a month. As long as they don't have to cover the transaction they are not going to complain.
Its no different than some banks which allow 2 account holders to make free transfers . I've done that with Bank of America before on bullion deals. Its free between account holders .
Do whatever business you want with paypal gifts as long as there is trust between the parties. If trust breaks down Paypal will not involve itself. One party or both are SOL.
There is no reason instant transfers between paypal accounts should cost anything , computers are doing the work , the work is the same for $5 or $5000 .
There was a pretty good thread about this over on the US coin forum a few months ago . >>
Excellent summary, and elaborates my one-liner.
Have you noticed, those who complain on PayPal's behalf about PPG being "wrong" also complain about lots of other things "wrong" with the world, that are really none of their business, they just like to complain?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
To those that advocate ripping off your payment processor, at what point does it become OK to violate an agreement with your buyer to save a few bucks?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Here's your answer:
There is no reason instant transfers between paypal accounts should cost anything , computers are doing the work , the work is the same for $5 or $5000
Have you noticed, those who complain on PayPal's behalf about PPG being "wrong" also complain about lots of other things "wrong" with the world, that are really none of their business, they just like to complain?
BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I could not agree more Baley!
Again I ask, at what point does it become OK to violate an agreement with your buyer to save a few bucks?
Something else to consider. Since the IRS requires paypal to report your sales to the IRS and paypal views personal gifts as non-sales, the IRS would probably view misuse of Personal Payment as cheating the IRS as well. A lot harder to pretend that's OK.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
They are providing the transfer service and doing the transfer.
If you use their service you agree to their service agreement.
Simple.
Does anyone think they themselves can magically transfer money to someone else?
Try it without using PayPal if you think you can!
<< <i>PayPal, thru their computers/network is providing a service by transferring money from one party to the next.
They are providing the transfer service and doing the transfer.
If you use their service you agree to their service agreement.
Simple.
Does anyone think they themselves can magically transfer money to someone else?
Try it without using PayPal if you think you can!
and if you believe that there is no cost involved to PayPal for your PPG transaction, you are living in a dream world.
If Paypal didn't want me doing transactions and them not getting a fee out of it, they would not allow me to do it. "Simple" enough for a 3rd grader.
Just like how they got busted. Did anyone actually take the time to read the damn article? Geez! This thread has turned into personal feelings on a topic rather than it's intention which was to show that Paypals hands have stink on them too! Read the article.
To comment otherwise is an act of hypocrisy in itself.
<< <i>Oh boy! I knew the IRS fear tactic would soon play itself out.
If Paypal didn't want me doing transactions and them not getting a fee out of it, they would not allow me to do it. "Simple" enough for a 3rd grader.
Just like how they got busted. Did anyone actually take the time to read the damn article? Geez! This thread has turned into personal feelings on a topic rather than it's intention which was to show that Paypals hands have stink on them too! Read the article.
To comment otherwise is an act of hypocrisy in itself. >>
The thread is about paypal and deception. The OP points out how paypal is being held accountable for it yet feels it's OK when he's doing the deceiving. Paypal is allowing you to do it because they are not policing the transactions. They made the mistake of trusting you and expecting you to hold up your end of the agreement.
Don't fear the IRS at your own peril. A wise businessman considers the tax implications of all of his business decisions.
FWIW, my bank charges a $25 fee to electronically transfer funds from my account to someone else's account regardless the reason for the transfer. Since there is no way to deceive the bank on this, one can only save the fee by simply mailing a check.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Oh boy! I knew the IRS fear tactic would soon play itself out.
If Paypal didn't want me doing transactions and them not getting a fee out of it, they would not allow me to do it. "Simple" enough for a 3rd grader.
Just like how they got busted. Did anyone actually take the time to read the damn article? Geez! This thread has turned into personal feelings on a topic rather than it's intention which was to show that Paypals hands have stink on them too! Read the article.
To comment otherwise is an act of hypocrisy in itself. >>
The thread is about paypal and deception. The OP points out how they are being held accountable for it yet feels it's OK when he's doing the deceiving. Paypal is allowing you to do it because they are not policing the transactions. They made the mistake of trusting you and expecting you to hold up your end of the agreement.
Don't fear the IRS at your own peril. A wise businessman considers the tax implications of all of his business decisions.
FWIW, my bank charges a $25 fee to electronically transfer funds from my account to someone else's account regardless the reason for the transfer. Since there is no way to deceive the bank on this, one can only save the fee by simply mailing a check. >>
Or open a high roller account where wire transfers are FREE!
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I stay clear of sellers that insist on PPG to circumvent fees. I think they are being deceptive.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What about those who offer PPG or regular PP as long as the buyer pays the fee, as I do?
I'm curious what the concencus is on this.
In most cases from my experience this is difference is the deal being done or not. The buyer thinks the seller should eat the fee, the seller says you want it, you pay it. I have yet to ever have a buyer offer to SPLIT the fee which I would more than be willing to do, if it is offered. I never offer to because I feel that's something the buyer should offer, not something I suggest.
Yes, I read it. Did you? Perhaps the question should have been "did anyone actually take the time to read and comprehend the article?
Paypal has been accused of these things, a judge will decide at some point in the future whether those charges have merit. It will be interesting to follow.
The thread is about paypal and deception. The OP points out how paypal is being held accountable for it yet feels it's OK when he's doing the deceiving. Paypal is allowing (the account holder) to do it because they are not policing the transactions. They made the mistake of trusting (the account holder) and expecting you to hold up your end of the agreement.
POTD, derryb.
That's the whole point - they failed to honor their word by using paypal gift for an exchange of goods or services, as they already said they wouldn't do it.
This is really it in a nutshell. One party pays, the other securely sends the item in a timely manner and if the buyer approves once item is in hand, that's a smooth transaction by me.
<< <i>I stay clear of sellers that insist on PPG to circumvent fees. I think they are being deceptive
What about those who offer PPG or regular PP as long as the buyer pays the fee, as I do?
I'm curious what the concencus is on this.
In most cases from my experience this is difference is the deal being done or not. The buyer thinks the seller should eat the fee, the seller says you want it, you pay it. I have yet to ever have a buyer offer to SPLIT the fee which I would more than be willing to do, if it is offered. I never offer to because I feel that's something the buyer should offer, not something I suggest. >>
PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Well, just like PP enrolling people in something they may not want to be enrolled in because they buried it in the T&C and then think that's ok (until they got caught)...I must've not read that, because it was buried in the T&C.
yeah, I don't take personal checks anymore for larger amounts, and if 3% is too much for you to buy the PROTECTION you as the buyer so covet, then I would pass too.
<< <i>As long as they honor their word and/or the deal I'm good.
That's the whole point - they failed to honor their word by using paypal gift for an exchange of goods or services, as they already said they wouldn't do it. >>
No it isn't. They made the agreement with PP, not me. If they say they will deliver 5 rolls of ASEs and cover the loss if there is one, I'm good. As I said before I've done plenty of deals that generated a fee for PP and I'm good with that too.
The more I read this comment it irks me, for this simple reason.
If doing 1000+ transactions on here and not having so much as a peep of bad commentary publicly stated about those transactions sways, or doesn't sway your decision, then I strongly urge you to move on because what you think and what is fact is terribly obvious to be 2 entirely different things.
You know, a seller can fire a buyer, just the way a buyer can fire a seller. It's a 2 way street.
<< <i>PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved
yeah, I don't take personal checks anymore for larger amounts, and if 3% is too much for you to buy the PROTECTION you as the buyer so covet, then I would pass too. >>
I'd take Mark's personal check no problemmo.
<< <i>PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved
yeah, I don't take personal checks anymore for larger amounts, and if 3% is too much for you to buy the PROTECTION you as the buyer so covet, then I would pass too. >>
Yeah, everyone I do business with takes checks so PP and PPG never comes up. Im not going to pay 3% and I'm not going to "use" PPG to circumvent PP. My point is I won't even consider a BST ad if it includes PPG as part of the deal. Red flag for me.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>PP is a for fee service when business is done. So someone needs to pay the fee. If you told me a had to pay 3% as a buyer on a PP I would pass. If you took my personal check then problem solved
yeah, I don't take personal checks anymore for larger amounts, and if 3% is too much for you to buy the PROTECTION you as the buyer so covet, then I would pass too. >>
I'd take Mark's personal check no problemmo. >>
You have : )
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I play it fair and straight up. I speak my mind. I don't look for loopholes.
I also read many many many posts on these boards. I try to understand people. I would be very wary of anyone who prides themselves of finding loopholes and cheating a person, or company, out of recompense in the ways of fees.
I will look at the whole issue, but when I see repeated patterns, I learn who I won't deal with. While it may be safe today, who's to say that something won't happen in the upcoming future when they decide that there was an issue with the transaction that they didn't like and do something that one would consider as a negative action? People that go for all the loopholes, are proud of not paying fees for services, many times over, are people I would be very wary of.
May be good today, but who knows what tomorrow brings.
Not pointing any one person out, just a generalization. For me, as I have stated before, I have dealt with someone who wanted PPG and I paid the fee, so they got what they wanted, and I felt better about things. I have probably received it before as well. I won't deny a payment for that, but I also won't state that any payment HAS to be PPG. To do so....well......I would rather not do that as PP provides a service that, if they didn't get fees, I wouldn't be able to use the service.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
I play it fair and straight up. I speak my mind. I don't look for loopholes.
I also read many many many posts on these boards. I try to understand people. I would be very wary of anyone who prides themselves of finding loopholes and cheating a person, or company, out of recompense in the ways of fees.
I will look at the whole issue, but when I see repeated patterns, I learn who I won't deal with. While it may be safe today, who's to say that something won't happen in the upcoming future when they decide that there was an issue with the transaction that they didn't like and do something that one would consider as a negative action? People that go for all the loopholes, are proud of not paying fees for services, many times over, are people I would be very wary of.
May be good today, but who knows what tomorrow brings.
Not pointing any one person out, just a generalization. For me, as I have stated before, I have dealt with someone who wanted PPG and I paid the fee, so they got what they wanted, and I felt better about things. I have probably received it before as well. I won't deny a payment for that, but I also won't state that any payment HAS to be PPG. To do so....well......I would rather not do that as PP provides a service that, if they didn't get fees, I wouldn't be able to use the service
I can understand the stance on this and can respect the point of view. If you feel it’s morally wrong then I don’t think anyone can disagree with that. The only thing I would ask is who gives you the impression that they pride themselves with finding a loophole? If you're implying me, two things. You're wrong and even if I did, how would you know? How can that determination be made when nothing has been said as such?
If's is' just a comment generally made, my apologies for maybe taking it too personal.
Im not going to pay 3% and I'm not going to "use" PPG to circumvent PP. My point is I won't even consider a BST ad if it includes PPG as part of the deal. Red flag for me.
I stay clear of sellers that insist on PPG to circumvent fees. I think they are being deceptive.
What I can’t understand is why not do business just because PPG was included in the payment options asked for, such as when regular PP, checks, money orders are also accepted by the seller. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what is being said.
If the seller offers other accepted payments that you DO agree with as morally acceptable ways to essentially pay what it is you’re wanting to purchase, then what’s holding that person back from sending a check or using regular PP? Perceived deception? Deception of what? The seller is accepting what you want to do.
Using regular PP provides the protection that you may want for whatever reasons felt needed too. A check does to some degree as well. I just can’t come to understand what the big deal is if the seller is abiding with the buyers wishes.
I'm not whining or complaining as some may jump to the conclusion of, I'm actually trying to learn to be a better, and even more trusted seller.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
So again, in very simple summary since some of you have the attention span of a mouse as evidenced many times by clearly not reading EVERYTHING that is said in a post, all of you who've continuously harped about people who are doing something fraudulent by using PPG for a transaction, YOU ARE WRONG.
Whether you feel it is still morally wrong because of some fictitious T&C agreement you interpret wrongly is your decision, but to accuse people of being shady and deceitful is clearly wrong and an apology should be forthcoming from all who've wrongly made these accusations.
Some comments from the thread grote15 provided:
I figured if it were outright forbidden, they would have closed that supposed loophole long ago. yes, they would have.
You pay for goods and services when you want their buyer protection. If you don't care about that, then use gift. That's the way I've always done business on paypal. As long as the payment is coming from a checking account or Paypal balance, Paypal themselves say it's ok to use it to send a PPG payment.
consider it a 2.9% insurance premium Then the BUYER should pay for it if they so covet it, not the seller. If the seller offers payment that way, the buyer should take full advantage of it to have their piece of mind. Don't ask the seller to split it either, if you're the buyer, you want it, the seller doesn't. If the seller is willing to split the fee to make the sale, even more so should the buyer proceed.
They don't like it, but they realize it is part of the cost of doing business. Makes good business sense just like the barkeep who serves one up on the house once in awhile. I'll have another, thank you Sir.
It's good to get clarification. However, for goods purchased, especially PM's, it would be a cold day in heck if I'd ever agree to a gift option as payment
And that is certainly your choice, but don't call people who use it cheats and crooks.
I will do PP gift if I (believe) know the person. I would never do it on a blind purchase, even on the BST Of course, that's just plain common sense.
I could go on, but point has ben made.
As for tithing, I don't tell the IRS how much I give to "HIS" services ( no preaching intended), because of the "left hand"/ "right hand" thing, and that's on "my honor" (a scriptural thing) … and nobody else's (am not to judge). And HE knows who HE puts on my heart before I do…. So that whole "gift" thing, as it were, is a farce for me in business. (separation of church and state here)
Now with business, if I ever get audited, I can't claim 'gifts" with transacting in business, so I don't mix the 2. That keeps me books simple. Why convolute this _ _ _ _ ?
However, this is not a moral dilemma, nor a legal issue for many or me. It's a discussion on "deceptive" practices of a company I happen to be a shareholder of. And for me, I don't view corporations as having "hidden" agendas. Especially those I have a vested interest in because of "sistering" through business/ commercial use.
THis is just me (as a business person) . Please do not take my words as judgement over/ of anyone else (nothing personal ) . I have to speak on my behalf and represent who I am.
As to business… It's still "business, as usual".
<< <i>And there it is! Using PPG is NOT against their policy. Thank you grote15 for sharing this as I would've never seen it because I rarely frequent the USCF.
So again, in very simple summary since some of you have the attention span of a mouse as evidenced many times by clearly not reading EVERYTHING that is said in a post, all of you who've continuously harped about people who are doing something fraudulent by using PPG for a transaction, YOU ARE WRONG.
Whether you feel it is still morally wrong because of some fictitious T&C agreement you interpret wrongly is your decision, but to accuse people of being shady and deceitful is clearly wrong and an apology should be forthcoming from all who've wrongly made these accusations.
Some comments from the thread grote15 provided:
I figured if it were outright forbidden, they would have closed that supposed loophole long ago. yes, they would have.
You pay for goods and services when you want their buyer protection. If you don't care about that, then use gift. That's the way I've always done business on paypal. As long as the payment is coming from a checking account or Paypal balance, Paypal themselves say it's ok to use it to send a PPG payment.
consider it a 2.9% insurance premium Then the BUYER should pay for it if they so covet it, not the seller. If the seller offers payment that way, the buyer should take full advantage of it to have their piece of mind. Don't ask the seller to split it either, if you're the buyer, you want it, the seller doesn't. If the seller is willing to split the fee to make the sale, even more so should the buyer proceed.
They don't like it, but they realize it is part of the cost of doing business. Makes good business sense just like the barkeep who serves one up on the house once in awhile. I'll have another, thank you Sir.
It's good to get clarification. However, for goods purchased, especially PM's, it would be a cold day in heck if I'd ever agree to a gift option as payment
And that is certainly your choice, but don't call people who use it cheats and crooks.
I will do PP gift if I (believe) know the person. I would never do it on a blind purchase, even on the BST Of course, that's just plain common sense.
I could go on, but point has ben made. >>
The only thing from the other thread that is not "opinion" is the email from a paypal drone: "We are not encouraging our buyers to send Personal Payments for every item that they/you will purchase. The reason is because you will lose the eligibility to file a dispute with paypal." Note that the drone does not say it is OK to use Personal Payment for business transactions and keep in mind how many times info from an ebay or paypal drone has proven to be incorrect.
Fact remains that the actual agreement defines Personal Payment as "amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill."
The Agreement is not fictitious as you claim (it is posted on their website, unlike a drone email) and the above quote from it leaves no room for misinterpretation.
Quoting forum member opinion and an email from a paypal drone does not change what the agreement clearly says and it definitely does not vindicate anyone who is violating the terms of the agreement by using paypal Personal Payments for sales transactions. Continuing to fool yourself that you are doing nothing wrong does not make it OK. Those who choose to let you interpret the paypal agreement for them would be better served to read it themselves.
FWIW I once won a $2800 paypal claim because a drone told me it was OK to ship and that the paypal details pages that did not say OK to ship was only being delayed in updating to "OK to ship." I insisted on an email from paypal that said OK to ship and ended having to use the email against paypal to get my $2800 returned by paypal. Turns out the drone and email were wrong and the web page was correct, there was a problem with the payment being made to me.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Go old school and just write a paper check. Lol
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>See how much fuss this electronic money creates.
Go old school and just write a paper check. Lol >>
At least checks don't leave tracks or tracks that are easy to follow.
<< <i>
<< <i>See how much fuss this electronic money creates.
Go old school and just write a paper check. Lol >>
At least checks don't leave tracks or tracks that are easy to follow. >>
Checks are electronically processed, plenty of digital tracks.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Just don't call people who may use PPG deceitful, crooks or of questionable character because you would be wrong in that summation (in most cases).
I wont throw out the libel and/or slander charge, but we now know that's what it would be if those accusations were made.
<< <i>Have your moral opinion and personal interpretation of whatever you think you agreed to, but know that PP advises against it, but it is NOT breaking any agreement by or with them. That's all I've been saying from post 1 about this.
Just don't call people who may use PPG deceitful, crooks or of questionable character because you would be wrong in that summation (in most cases).
I wont throw out the libel and/or slander charge, but we now know that's what it would be if those accusations were made. >>
Interpretation of the agreement is not necessary, it is clear in what it states. Per the agreement, making personal payments as payment for merchandise is in violation of the agreement.
Spin it any way you wish, but violating the agreement to save paying a fee is deceitful and by most definitions just plain dishonest. You can argue this forever, but as long as the agreement says what it says you are only fooling yourself.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>See how much fuss this electronic money creates.
Go old school and just write a paper check. Lol >>
At least checks don't leave tracks or tracks that are easy to follow. >>
Checks are electronically processed, plenty of digital tracks.
At my bank if I present one and get cash, it doesn't post to my account unless there is a problem. While the bank may have a record of it if you didn't know about the check, you would have a hard time knowing it happened.
Same for postal money orders. I haven't purchased one in years, but I don't recall that they logged it in when you bought one. If I sent one to you and only you and I knew the serial #, the USPS would be hard pressed to trace it without a manual search.
<< <i>And there it is! Using PPG is NOT against their policy. Thank you grote15 for sharing this as I would've never seen it because I rarely frequent the USCF.
So again, in very simple summary since some of you have the attention span of a mouse as evidenced many times by clearly not reading EVERYTHING that is said in a post, all of you who've continuously harped about people who are doing something fraudulent by using PPG for a transaction, YOU ARE WRONG.
Whether you feel it is still morally wrong because of some fictitious T&C agreement you interpret wrongly is your decision, but to accuse people of being shady and deceitful is clearly wrong and an apology should be forthcoming from all who've wrongly made these accusations.
Some comments from the thread grote15 provided:
I figured if it were outright forbidden, they would have closed that supposed loophole long ago. yes, they would have.
You pay for goods and services when you want their buyer protection. If you don't care about that, then use gift. That's the way I've always done business on paypal. As long as the payment is coming from a checking account or Paypal balance, Paypal themselves say it's ok to use it to send a PPG payment.
consider it a 2.9% insurance premium Then the BUYER should pay for it if they so covet it, not the seller. If the seller offers payment that way, the buyer should take full advantage of it to have their piece of mind. Don't ask the seller to split it either, if you're the buyer, you want it, the seller doesn't. If the seller is willing to split the fee to make the sale, even more so should the buyer proceed.
They don't like it, but they realize it is part of the cost of doing business. Makes good business sense just like the barkeep who serves one up on the house once in awhile. I'll have another, thank you Sir.
It's good to get clarification. However, for goods purchased, especially PM's, it would be a cold day in heck if I'd ever agree to a gift option as payment
And that is certainly your choice, but don't call people who use it cheats and crooks.
I will do PP gift if I (believe) know the person. I would never do it on a blind purchase, even on the BST Of course, that's just plain common sense.
I could go on, but point has ben made. >>
You do go on and on and on
We are all wired differently as is our internal moral compass............
If I understand correctly your business payment model is the following: PPG or PP with the buyer paying the 3.0%. I think that model sucks, it is unimaginative and short sighted but hey but if the shoe fits, wear it. If someone won't take my check or provide a no fee solution for the transaction then it's someone I would not want to do business with as a buyer. Your only no fee solution is PPG which is sketchy at best IMO. Pass.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Spin it any way you wish, but violating the agreement to save paying a fee is deceitful and by most definitions just plain dishonest. You can argue this forever, but as long as the agreement says what it says you are only fooling yourself.
Not so, stop spreading lies because of a personal opinion. Express your opinion, but don't misstate what is fact.
I pass as well because you are being offered regular PP which is the underlying reason for the protection ultimately you want.