Paypal being "deceptive"

piecesofme · May 22, 2015 1:32AM

Deep gasp...Paypal would never do anything to deceive, anyone. Would they?
Looks like a rate increase is coming with being slapped with a fine. Now they can justify it in their own special way they see things.

BAJJERFAN · May 22, 2015 3:24AM

<< Deep gasp...Paypal would never do anything to deceive, anyone. Would they?
Looks like a rate increase is coming with being slapped with a fine. Now they can justify it in their own special way they see things. >>

And we're supposed to be lowdown cheatin dirty snake in the grass skonks un crooks cuz we'd use PPG once in awhile.

OPA · May 22, 2015 5:03AM

I'm not paranoid enough to deduce that an increase is coming because of a spit in the bucket 15M fine. Peanuts, considering their net income is over 1 billion after taxes and competition is biting at their heels.

KennyBerger · May 22, 2015 4:27PM

Latest Breaking News. Tax increases slap city of Chicago, pays firefighter's slush gold fund. Chicago would never do anything to deceive anyone. Would they?

TwoSides2aCoin · May 22, 2015 6:26PM

Pay Pal, Google, and Facebook are cited in this report.
The administration is coming down hard on the Langbords, too.

And here, I was convinced it was Bush's fault. (edited to remove the apostrophe I inadvertently used in Joan's last name)

piecesofme · May 22, 2015 10:09PM

And we're supposed to be lowdown cheatin dirty snake in the grass skonks un crooks cuz we'd use PPG once in awhile

yeah! I know exactly how you feel from such an asinine accusation.

BAJJERFAN · May 22, 2015 11:20PM

<< And we're supposed to be lowdown cheatin dirty snake in the grass skonks un crooks cuz we'd use PPG once in awhile

yeah! I know exactly how you feel from such an asinine accusation. >>

Asinine is speled with 2 esses as in assinine.

I'm on your side in case you never seem to catch on. I've been known to use PPG myself. So I don't chastise those who do use it. You seem to continually miss that obvious point.

seebelow · May 22, 2015 11:57PM

serious question...what are the alternatives to paypal....esp using ebay? competition is good..thanks

gsa1fan · May 23, 2015 12:05AM

I know they sent me a "short survey" after 10 questions I deleted that noisy POS!

BAJJERFAN · May 23, 2015 12:19AM

<< serious question...what are the alternatives to paypal....esp using ebay? competition is good..thanks >>

Cash, checks or money orders, but IIRC they have to be initiated by the buyer.

piecesofme · May 23, 2015 12:29AM

And we're supposed to be lowdown cheatin dirty snake in the grass skonks un crooks cuz we'd use PPG once in awhile

yeah! I know exactly how you feel from such an asinine accusation. >>

Asinine is speled with 2 esses as in assinine.

I'm on your side in case you never seem to catch on. I've been known to use PPG myself. So I don't chastise those who do use it. You seem to continually miss that obvious point

Sorry to correct you publicly BAJJERFAN, but you leave me no choice having me blocked for messages.
Actually, I spelled it correctly. And I spelled spelled correctly too.

And you wrote your comment so that it could be played either way depending on how I replied. You must really think I'm an idiot, but "you seem to continually miss that" I'm not the sharpest tool in the toolbox, but not the dullest either.

BAJJERFAN · May 23, 2015 12:39AM

<< And we're supposed to be lowdown cheatin dirty snake in the grass skonks un crooks cuz we'd use PPG once in awhile

yeah! I know exactly how you feel from such an asinine accusation. >>

Asinine is speled with 2 esses as in assinine.

I'm on your side in case you never seem to catch on. I've been known to use PPG myself. So I don't chastise those who do use it. You seem to continually miss that obvious point

Sorry to correct you publicly BAJJERFAN, but you leave me no choice having me blocked for messages.
Actually, I spelled it correctly. And I spelled spelled correctly too.

And you wrote your comment so that it could be played either way depending on how I replied. You must really think I'm an idiot, but "you seem to continually miss that" I'm not the sharpest tool in the toolbox, but not the dullest either. >>

You blocked me a LONG time ago for a comment that had zero, zilch, nada nuttin to do with you. I casually suggested that in some cases one could offer to split PP fees in order to complete a deal, but you took it as a personal attack when it wasn't even directed to you. I really don't care if someone wants/accepts PPG or not; doesn't affect my opinion of them one way or the other. As I said, I've used it myself.

My bad on the spelling; usually I'm way better than average at it. FWIW, I intentionally spelled spelled as speled.

Don't mind the public notice either, tho for a really bad gaffe, I'd PM the person. Oftimes they are grateful for the chance to correct it.

Have a good day.

BAJJERFAN · May 23, 2015 12:51AM

Frankly, I've used PP plenty for those who are willing to accept it. A $2600 APMEX special off of eBay generates $78 in fees for them [unless they have a special arrangement] so I feel NO GUILT when using them for freebie once in awhile. Actually, I'd expect a discount if I wasn't using regular PP.

piecesofme · May 23, 2015 1:04AM

Frankly, I've used PP plenty for those who are willing to accept it. A $2600 APMEX special off of eBay generates $78 in fees for them [unless they have a special arrangement] so I feel NO GUILT when using them for freebie once in awhile. Actually, I'd expect a discount if I wasn't using regular PP

Nice to know someone else is willing to speak up on the matter. OPA says their fine is a drop in the bucket because they profit $1B after taxes. Essentially saying, they can afford to take a loss here and there because of their size. A company making that kind of scratch after taxes could care less about losing a few bucks because as i've said before, they wouldn't even make it an option if it mattered that much to them.

Those righteous ones will now say that using PPG for a transaction is not what it was meant to be for. I will promptly direct them to OPA's comment and follow it with a "so what." They act like their so perfect that they've never used a loophole to their benefit before. When it comes to loopholes, everyone has stink on their hands, the difference is I'm honest about it and feel no shame in doing so when it comes to this topic specifically. Don't confuse it with other subjects like taxes and such. I'm specifically speaking to the act of using PPG for a >$500 transaction.

You have a safe and pleasant holiday weekend too BF.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 23, 2015 4:17AM

I pay as I go. The only reason I never used PPG was because I wasn't gifting people during "transaction time". When I use "GIFT" it is to gift.

Today I took a pay pal payment in the shop. I suppose I could ask my customers to "GIFT IT " to me but that's not how the APP works when I plug that thing into the phone.
And for a "business", I know every penny counts. It sure does. I respect that about corporate governance , and it ain't no skin off my nose how people conduct business inside here or outside of here…. so long as they don't judge me because I stand up for me and the way I conduct it. That's been an ongoing problem since I came out in the work force 48 years ago.

I wanted to buy what the OP offered one time and was even willing to pay the 3% FEE. Why I was "cut-off" from conducting business is beyond me.

Wingsrule · May 23, 2015 5:35AM

They act like their so perfect that they've never used a loophole to their benefit before.

It's "they're", not "their".

And when you make an agreement, then intentionally violate that agreement, that's not a loophole.

I guess my parents raised me differently.

Wingsrule · May 23, 2015 5:35AM

And why did I just waste my time posting to a thread that has nothing to do with precious metals??!?!

ebaytrader · May 23, 2015 9:49AM

<< serious question...what are the alternatives to paypal....esp using ebay? competition is good..thanks >>

Some processors (I think Authorize.net is one, and maybe First Data) have gateways that can be linked on feepay's pages. Of course, you have to actually be a real business to take advantage of that.

Once PP and feepay divorce, I'm sure one or two heavy hitters will jump into the fray. I could see a company like Square expending into that field. There's just too much money on the table for no one to notice. BTW, from what I read, the relationship between PP and feepay will not be noticeable to the public after the breakup.

piecesofme · May 23, 2015 11:13AM

They act like their so perfect that they've never used a loophole to their benefit before.

It's "they're", not "their".

And when you make an agreement, then intentionally violate that agreement, that's not a loophole.

I guess my parents raised me differently

Wingsrule...you've always been very fair and to the point with me and I thank you for that but we're just gonna have to disagree on this one.
Hear me out if you would.

I would ask you to not be so naive to think that every company isn't pursuing and acting on every loophole they can find to any agreement they make. You're practically proving my point for me, that's why I said everyone has stink on their hands when it comes to finding a loophole in the agreement that was made. I'm talking about business now, not so much as what the average individual Joe might do.

You see. Paypal got BUSTED for acting on a loophole they thought they found. How ironic, right? They did the very thing someone who participates in a non-fee transaction done thru them does. So THEY found a loophole and acted on it until they got caught.

I don't see anything wrong with doing transactions >$500 using PPG when Paypal themselves are/were cheating at an AGREEMENT they made with their users. It can't be more black & white than that.

derryb · May 23, 2015 11:59AM

The agreement account holders have with paypal defines a "Personal Payment" as "amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill."

To justify violating the agreement because everyone has "stink on their hands" is proof of the greed and corruption that dominates our business and financial environment. Regardless of how one justifies abusing the fee-free payment, it remains wrong in the eyes of the agreement.

When I accept a "gift" payment to help my buyer save money I know I'm violating the agreement - I don't try to convince myself or any one else otherwise.

cohodk · May 23, 2015 1:46PM

Honestly, I cant believe there is so much discourse over this PPG thing.

mariner67 · May 24, 2015 6:27AM

<< The agreement account holders have with paypal defines a "Personal Payment" as "amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill."

To justify violating the agreement because everyone has "stink on their hands" is proof of the greed and corruption that dominates our business and financial environment. Regardless of how one justifies abusing the fee-free payment, it remains wrong in the eyes of the agreement.

When I accept a "gift" payment to help my buyer save money I know I'm violating the agreement - I don't try to convince myself or any one else otherwise. >>

Well said derryB!

Baley · May 24, 2015 7:46AM

Personal payment is for people who trust each other. Others should pay the fee and get the dispute moderation insurance.

streeter · May 25, 2015 1:34AM

Some websites forums with BST, usmilitaria for instance, are booting member sellers if they specify PPG. CU should consider this.

asheland · May 25, 2015 3:17AM

Maybe I'm missing something, but I understood that a PPG being sent means that the one sending the gift pays the fee vs. the one accepting the payment.
Is that not correct?

piecesofme · May 25, 2015 3:23AM

Some websites forums with BST, usmilitaria for instance, are booting member sellers if they specify PPG. CU should consider this

It's already a morgue here these days. Do that and you'd hear a pin drop while on the BST. Most seem to buy from Apmex and like places now because of the scams that have gotten ran here. The BST is becoming a dinosaur imo.

BAJJERFAN · May 25, 2015 3:28AM

<< Maybe I'm missing something, but I understood that a PPG being sent means that the one sending the gift pays the fee vs. the one accepting the payment.
Is that not correct? >>

No, not if it's from an existing balance or linked checking account.

bronco2078 · May 25, 2015 3:32AM

<< Some websites forums with BST, usmilitaria for instance, are booting member sellers if they specify PPG. CU should consider this

It's already a morgue here these days. Do that and you'd hear a pin drop while on the BST. Most seem to buy from Apmex and like places now because of the scams that have gotten ran here. The BST is becoming a dinosaur imo. >>

The US coins BST is ridiculous

. I always thought it was for people that hated getting rolled selling to dealers or didn't want to pay high fees to sell.

Prices there are generally higher than Ebay or dealers charge .

The World coins BST doesn't suffer from that

BAJJERFAN · May 25, 2015 3:33AM

<< Some websites forums with BST, usmilitaria for instance, are booting member sellers if they specify PPG. CU should consider this

It's already a morgue here these days. Do that and you'd hear a pin drop while on the BST. Most seem to buy from Apmex and like places now because of the scams that have gotten ran here. The BST is becoming a dinosaur imo. >>

All things being equal, I'd prefer to buy from APMEX or JMBullion, etc. simply because of security and reliabilty, not scams. If I'm selling ASEs for example I can't realistically expect to ask more than the big bullion houses do and plan to sell any. There are just more smart buyers here. Losing a PM shipment due to theft or other USPS miscues is a bigger risk than dishonest buyers or sellers here.

BAJJERFAN · May 25, 2015 3:37AM

<< Some websites forums with BST, usmilitaria for instance, are booting member sellers if they specify PPG. CU should consider this. >>

Why? It's hard to absorb 3% both ways on bullion whether you buy to sell/flip or to stack. If buyers want to pay the 3% that's fine with me. PayPal and bullion are like financial hara kiri.

asheland · May 25, 2015 4:10AM

<< 

<< Maybe I'm missing something, but I understood that a PPG being sent means that the one sending the gift pays the fee vs. the one accepting the payment.
Is that not correct? >>

No, not if it's from an existing balance or linked checking account. >>

So it's free if it's from an existing balance or checking account?
(or was)

asheland · May 25, 2015 4:12AM

I don't mean to seem ignorant, I just don't use Paypal all that much.

mariner67 · May 25, 2015 4:16AM

<< I don't mean to seem ignorant, I just don't use Paypal all that much.

>>

Don't they have a users agreement you can read?

asheland · May 25, 2015 5:06AM

<< 

<< I don't mean to seem ignorant, I just don't use Paypal all that much.

>>

Don't they have a users agreement you can read? >>

I guess that's possible, but I don't care enough to bother.

asheland · May 25, 2015 5:08AM

Like I said, I really don't do much with Paypal, just was curious about this topic.

streeter · May 25, 2015 5:48AM

IIRC, PP fees can approach a little over 1% if a seller does around $2,500/mo. At that level PPG is an afterthought on buy/sell transactions.

Just thought I'd pass that along to all the budding tycoons around here

Edit: spell check

streeter · May 25, 2015 5:55AM

<< Like I said, I really don't do much with Paypal, just was curious about this topic. >>

It's always a good idea to never read and understand the agreement you sign and the terms you operate under. Just rely on complete strangers to do this for you.

Publik skools? Much?

VanHalen · May 25, 2015 5:58AM

<< 

<< 

<< Maybe I'm missing something, but I understood that a PPG being sent means that the one sending the gift pays the fee vs. the one accepting the payment.
Is that not correct? >>

No, not if it's from an existing balance or linked checking account. >>

So it's free if it's from an existing balance or checking account?
(or was) >>

Yes it's free (No fee if you use your PayPal balance or bank account for domestic transactions) and it's called PayPal Personal these days.

piecesofme · May 25, 2015 7:11AM

So there you go, someone finally nailed it. Why in the F should there be a fee involved to either party if the funds are coming from existing PP balance or a linked checking account?
There is no credit card company involved. Fees are on every charge of a credit card for the people who don't have CASH to buy what they want.
If you have a CASH funded balance you should not be hit with a fee. Thank you Paypal for acknowleging this and allowing people that have CASH to do commerce freely.

And I'll say it again til I'm out of breath if I have to. If they didn't want you doing it, they'd stop you from doing it by taking away the option. And I'm not trying to "convince" anybody of anything. It's just plain common sense. You wanna keep making PP richer when they're giving you an option, be my guest, you certainly have that choice. The end!

derryb · May 25, 2015 8:16AM

<< Why in the F should there be a fee involved to either party if the funds are coming from existing PP balance or a linked checking account? Thank you Paypal for acknowleging this and allowing people that have CASH to do commerce freely. >>

Because unless it's a non-transaction for merchandise, one agrees to use paypal for a fee. If one wants to deal in cash, stick in an envelope and pay USPS their fee to get it to the other party. If one wants paypal to move cash for them in a transaction, pay their fee like as agreed.

<< And I'll say it again til I'm out of breath if I have to. If they didn't want you doing it, they'd stop you from doing it by taking away the option. >>

Why do you think they define a personal payment in the user agreement as "amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase"? Because they haven't caught you abusing their service does not mean they approve of you abusing their service.

<< And I'm not trying to "convince" anybody of anything. It's just plain common sense. You wanna keep making PP richer when they're giving you an option, be my guest, you certainly have that choice. The end! >>

Sure you are. You're trying to convince yourself and others that you are not cheating your payment system partner.

piecesofme · May 25, 2015 9:00AM

All I really want to know is how does it feel to be ignored?
I knew the righteous ones would blather trying to convince of how it is so wrong to send/accept PPG when Paypal got busted for the very thing PPG is about, finding and using a loophole, it's just in their nature to do so.

derryb · May 25, 2015 9:31AM

Violating the terms of your agreement with paypal (or anyone) is not "finding a loophole." Man up and call it what it is - deceptive.

streeter · May 25, 2015 10:27AM

It's times like these..I never thought I'd even think it..

That I miss Gecko

streeter · May 25, 2015 10:32AM

Maybe people have forgotten the two recent BST fiascos involved buyers GIFTING as per seller request. That might have some people a little leery of BST these days, ya think?

rawteam1 · May 25, 2015 10:45AM

It might be best if one actually knew the meaning of loophole...
Beforehand...

BAJJERFAN · May 25, 2015 12:38PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Maybe I'm missing something, but I understood that a PPG being sent means that the one sending the gift pays the fee vs. the one accepting the payment.
Is that not correct? >>

No, not if it's from an existing balance or linked checking account. >>

So it's free if it's from an existing balance or checking account?
(or was) >>

Yes it's free (No fee if you use your PayPal balance or bank account for domestic transactions) and it's called PayPal Personal these days. >>

It's free of fees to BOTH parties. If a CC is used then one of the parties incurs a fee, because the CC imposes a fee.

BAJJERFAN · May 25, 2015 12:40PM

<< IIRC, PP fees can approach a little over 1% if a seller does around $2,500/mo. At that level PPG is an afterthought on buy/sell transactions.

Just thought I'd pass that along to all the budding tycoons around here

Edit: spell check >>

So does PP charge just 1% for a single $2500 transaction as opposed to $2500 accumulated over several transactions?

BAJJERFAN · May 25, 2015 12:42PM

<< So there you go, someone finally nailed it. Why in the F should there be a fee involved to either party if the funds are coming from existing PP balance or a linked checking account?
There is no credit card company involved. Fees are on every charge of a credit card for the people who don't have CASH to buy what they want.
If you have a CASH funded balance you should not be hit with a fee. Thank you Paypal for acknowleging this and allowing people that have CASH to do commerce freely.

>>

That's not exactly how it works. PP is in business to make money and it's hard to make money if you don't charge anything for your services. They charge a fee to send money from A to B, doesn't matter the source of the money.

BAJJERFAN · May 25, 2015 12:44PM

<< Maybe people have forgotten the two recent BST fiascos involved buyers GIFTING as per seller request. That might have some people a little leery of BST these days, ya think? >>

Well there is risk and it's your choice to accept/take the risk.

Baley · May 25, 2015 12:52PM

<< Personal payment is for people who trust each other. Others should pay the fee and get the dispute moderation insurance. >>

derryb · May 25, 2015 1:05PM

<< 

<< Personal payment is for people who trust each other. Others should pay the fee and get the dispute moderation insurance. >>

>>

Unfortunately, the paypal user agreement does not agree.

Paypal being &quot;deceptive&quot;

Comments

Paypal being "deceptive"