Greece doesn't even intend to pay debt by eom
piecesofme
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Surpised this hasn't gotten more pub, how will it affect metals, if at all? I'm asking, I'm not that smart 
Decisive week for Greece
Decisive week for Greece
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The terms of the relief the EU provided to Greece were impossible to comply with and doomed to failure from the beginning.
Greece has a long cultural history of tax avoidance, political nepotism and corruption. Politicians hand out phantom jobs to supporters so they can collect pay checks from the government yet don't really have to go to work.
Greece is a lazy welfare state apparantly as derryB states.
Cut it off, let it try to survive on its own.
Printing money will work for a while maybe.
Hey, we here in the US have some experience with supporting lazy welfare recipients also!
I don't think it will have any affect on precious metals....as many here know, the paper traders control spot!
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If they see it as a sign Greece is going to get the boot, then euro up-$ down- gold up
If they see it as some anchor on the EU requiring some further EU aid and euro down-$ up-gold down
I'm thinking door number down for the euro and gold
Thanks again for the input, I always like to hear what the concencus is on subjects like this.
<< <i>Why would the US stock market fall like it did today? >>
Probably because stocks are over priced, over leveraged and heading for trouble.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Why would the US stock market fall like it did today? >>
Probably because stocks are over priced, over leveraged and heading for trouble. >>
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Capital fleeing Europe
<< <i>Massive outflows from Euro denominated equities
Capital fleeing Europe >>
So, the flow is into US$.....still the world reserve currency!
<< <i>Why would the US stock market fall like it did today? Does it not like what's inevitably going to happen with Greece, or was it even related?
Thanks again for the input, I always like to hear what the concencus is on subjects like this. >>
The market needs +/- world news events to move the needle. Allows for oppurtunities to open up. Look at 9/11. Many dove in when the Dow hit 7,000. Look where it is now. Many a profit has been logged from disasters.
More sellers than buyers. Not a smart alec answer. Sometimes there are just more sellers than buyers. Dont let the mass media lead you thinking there is always an event or reason.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
My Dad use to say stuff like that all the time..."what we need is another world war to get this country right again." He meant it in financial and moral terms. He lived thru the great depression and WWII.
Probably all of the above, a little bit of each fundamental contributes to the picture. Overlay that mix with investor sentiment.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Why would the US stock market fall like it did today
More sellers than buyers. Not a smart alec answer. Sometimes there are just more sellers than buyers. Dont let the mass media lead you thinking there is always an event or reason. >>
In addition to e/o quarter re balancing of portfolios, "profit taking," in those sectors that had the biggest gains so far, such as biotech or technology? Mutual funds need to "look good" by the end of each quarter.
<< <i> Mutual funds need to "look good" by the end of each quarter. >>
This, along with contributing effects from other issues noted above....and the month is not yet over....Cheers, RickO
That's not actually true. On any given trading day there are exactly as many buyers as sellers. It's the marginal transaction (lowest seller, highest buyer) at any given instant that sets the price.
<< <i>More sellers than buyers.
That's not actually true. On any given trading day there are exactly as many buyers as sellers. It's the marginal transaction (lowest seller, highest buyer) at any given instant that sets the price. >>
Actually, probably more accurate to say, "greater quantity of X offered for sale than offered to buy"
There could be a million buyers each bidding to buy one ounce of silver, but if a single seller has two million ounces he is selling today at any price, the price is going doooowwwnnn
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
stock market and the metals markets.
If a Greece exit caused a market selloff, I would be a buyer of stocks.
Placing limit orders is one of the stupiest things a trader can ever do. Putting a buy/sell limit order on something is like putting a jump bid on something on eBay that ends in 5 days. What happens when that's done every time without fail? The "market" finds you by bidding up right to the point where you've set a point of what you are willing to pay. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what it's worth, it means someone else is forcing you to pay what you're willing to pay.
Placing a limit order means the money managers can SEE where your buy/sell point is and take (fill) your offer, and then can run like hell the other way with it causing you to lose instantly on what they've just made you purchase.
Limit orders do not determine value...like you said, the trade still has to occur, but the problem with that is that money managers can force your hand and then make it run the other way. Why would a person expose themself like that is beyond me.
Limit orders are for people who apparently don't have the time to do that and think charting can tell them what to do..."if it reaches this point (because the chart they've modeled tells them where a low/high point is), then that's where I want it", then you get tripped in because you told them where your entry point is. So they see that, force your hand and trip you in, now you're exposed, then they put the real money behind which way they want it to go.
Chart modeling can be made to look the way you want it to look, and if you enter favorable parameters because of being biased in what you want to do, that can prove a very to be deadly in terms of your finances.
Don't you think if they (money managers/market movers, whatever you want to refer to them as) see alot of money leaning one way (because they can see that) it's in their interest to fill your order and then run the other way with it, along with your money? It's an opportunity for them that presented itself. Dont be foolish enough to think you can outsmart the people who really control the market, the people behind the scenes that know your move because you've put a limit order on the table.
They spend a lot of money on quants, microwave towers and HFT to do just that.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Don't you think if they (money managers/market movers, whatever you want to refer to them as) see alot of money leaning one way (because they can see that) it's in their interest to fill your order and then run the other way with it, along with your money? It's an opportunity for them that presented itself. Dont be foolish enough to think you can outsmart the people who really control the market, the people behind the scenes that know your move because you've put a limit order on the table.
They spend a lot of money on quants, microwave towers and HFT to do just that. >>
Do you really think your 100 share trade is market moving? You really think market makers think your 100 shares is important to the direction of the stock?
Ignorance breeds paranoia.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
When there are tens of thousands of 100 share limit orders teetering at a point where they can be tripped in, yes, I believe that is the point where you lose and they start making money. Don't be so ignorant to think in such smaller terms of "just me and my 100 share order." Think of the tens of thousands of orders they see exposing themselves by you letting them know what your buy/sell point is.
Let's not start with insults please, I have not insulted anyone personally, merely stating what I feel is a sure way to lose your hard earned money.
<< <i>Do you really think your 100 share trade is market moving? You really think market makers think your 100 shares is important to the direction of the stock?
When there are tens of thousands of 100 share limit orders teetering at a point where they can be tripped in, yes, I believe that is the point where you lose and they start making money. Don't be so ignorant to think in such smaller terms of "just me and my 100 share order." Think of the tens of thousands of orders they see exposing themselves by you letting them know what your buy/sell point is.
Let's not start with insults please, I have not insulted anyone personally, merely stating what I feel is a sure way to lose your hard earned money. >>
You are free to feel that way, just know that you are wrong.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
are market orders. I don't mind giving up a penny or two.
For some less liquid stocks I do use limit orders. That might
be a 30 cent spread on a $16 stock.
I make over 1000 sells per year. I don't think I have gained
much or lost much using market or limit orders.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you really think your 100 share trade is market moving? You really think market makers think your 100 shares is important to the direction of the stock?
When there are tens of thousands of 100 share limit orders teetering at a point where they can be tripped in, yes, I believe that is the point where you lose and they start making money. Don't be so ignorant to think in such smaller terms of "just me and my 100 share order." Think of the tens of thousands of orders they see exposing themselves by you letting them know what your buy/sell point is.
Let's not start with insults please, I have not insulted anyone personally, merely stating what I feel is a sure way to lose your hard earned money. >>
You are free to feel that way, just know that you are wrong. >>
If ignorant is too strong a word then I will just change to incredible lack of knowledge and understanding. Is that more politically correct?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I think Greece leaving the Euro would be a non event for the
stock market and the metals markets.
If a Greece exit caused a market selloff, I would be a buyer of stocks. >>
Yeah
Buy OP
Greece either needs to shut up and play along or just be given the boot. Bloated government isn't a self sustaining set of industries and tourism hasn't cured their ills.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>isn't it strange and sad that Greece, arguably the cradle of Western civilization, is in such dire straits and held in such poor regard globally here 2500 years later? >>
It's all Welsh , to me
Do you really think your 100 share trade is market moving? You really think market makers think your 100 shares is important to the direction of the stock?
Ignorance breeds paranoia.
I never said that a 100 share trade did anything. Surely, cohodk - you know all about HFT.
I knew it would happen.
Do you really think your 100 share trade is market moving? You really think market makers think your 100 shares is important to the direction of the stock?
Ignorance breeds paranoia.
I never said that a 100 share trade did anything. Surely, cohodk - you know all about HFT
And it's not just me and my little 100 order trade, it's the tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of 100 order trades waiting in line to be filled. When they see there's enough there to fill to make it worth their while, they fill the orders then back money going the other way with it. I'm sure we're all on the same page, but just to clarify I'm specifically talking about option trading.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>isn't it strange and sad that Greece, arguably the cradle of Western civilization, is in such dire straits and held in such poor regard globally here 2500 years later? >>
A classic example of socialists finally running out of other peoples' money. What makes it worse is they borrowed that money and their creditors want it back, regardless of the suffering and sacrifice required of the Greek population. I have no sympathy for Greece, they made their bed and now it is nightfall.
The Greek sad state of affairs is moving back to the forefront of global economics as the Greeks are unable to repay their debt to the IMF or to fellow EU creditors. The fallout will have at minimum a devastating affect on the future of the euro and it's economic union. While the IMF can afford to and is more willing to cut their losses as well as their financial ties to Greece, the Greeks have the EU in a headlock - the stability of their international union and their international currency is at great risk. The great social(ist) experiment of a european union has finally reached its moment of truth.
This continues to hold a great possibility of being the biggest economic story of the year. The ramifications of a Greek exit will most likely be felt throughout the global economy.
Morals of this story:
(1) Excessive debt continues to plague the world economy with no end in sight.
(2) Paying someone else's way through life only makes them more dependent.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>isn't it strange and sad that Greece, arguably the cradle of Western civilization, is in such dire straits and held in such poor regard globally here 2500 years later? >>
A classic example of socialists finally running out of other peoples' money. What makes it worse is they borrowed that money and their creditors want it back, regardless of the suffering and sacrifice required of the Greek population. I have no sympathy for Greece, they made their bed and now it is nightfall.
The Greek sad state of affairs is moving back to the forefront of global economics as the Greeks are unable to repay their debt to the IMF or to fellow EU creditors. The fallout will have at minimum a devastating affect on the future of the euro and it's economic union. While the IMF can afford to and is more willing to cut their losses as well as their financial ties to Greece, the Greeks have the EU in a headlock - the stability of their international union and their international currency is at great risk. The great social(ist) experiment of a european union has finally reached its moment of truth.
This continues to hold a great possibility of being the biggest economic story of the year. The ramifications of a Greek exit will most likely be felt throughout the global economy.
Morals of this story:
(1) Excessive debt continues to plague the world economy with no end in sight.
(2) Paying someone else's way through life only makes them more dependent. >>
The political class and the money men looted Greece. They don't believe in socialism or capitalism its only a label . Whatever the -ism , its a suit of clothes they slip into and discard for something different as they see fit.
<< <i>isn't it strange and sad that Greece, arguably the cradle of Western civilization, is in such dire straits and held in such poor regard globally here 2500 years later? >>
Only 2250 more years to go for this country.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>isn't it strange and sad that Greece, arguably the cradle of Western civilization, is in such dire straits and held in such poor regard globally here 2500 years later? >>
Only 2250 more years to go for this country.
"Better to burn out than it is to fade away."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>They spend a lot of money on quants, microwave towers and HFT to do just that. >>
Do you really think your 100 share trade is market moving? You really think market makers think your 100 shares is important to the direction of the stock?
Ignorance breeds paranoia.
I never said that a 100 share trade did anything. Surely, cohodk - you know all about HFT
And it's not just me and my little 100 order trade, it's the tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of 100 order trades waiting in line to be filled. When they see there's enough there to fill to make it worth their while, they fill the orders then back money going the other way with it. I'm sure we're all on the same page, but just to clarify I'm specifically talking about option trading. >>
I set all my option trades up the night before. My orders read that the underlying stock price and the option string price must both be in concert before a trade is triggered. My fills at OptionsXpress are seamless and almost always the best fill in time.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Those that have extended debt to Greece have only themselves to blame and now must pay the piper, again. Events up to now have been nothing short of a game of "chicken." The Greeks, with Russia waiting in the wings, are about to change the game to Russian Roulette. It is clear who's hand holds the pistol. Nothing will change Greece's continually demonstrated fiscal irresponsibility until their bluff is called. If the leg has cancer you cut it off.
The ultimate affect of this crisis on the price of precious metals remains underestimated. This is one of the big dominoes that continues to teeter.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I suspect that, unfortunately, Greece will be saved at all costs. Many forget that, in an effort to keep Russia or China from gaining a foothold in Greece, the numbers were fudged to allow Greece into the European Union. With the slow simmer of a cold war now being warmed up fear of Russian expansion determines Greece's, and ultimately, the European Union's future.
Those that have extended debt to Greece have only themselves to blame and now must pay the piper, again. Events up to now have been nothing short of a game of "chicken." The Greeks, with Russia waiting in the wings, are about to change the game to Russian Roulette. It is clear who's hand holds the pistol. Nothing will change Greece's continually demonstrated fiscal irresponsibility until their bluff is called. If the leg has cancer you cut it off.
The ultimate affect of this crisis on the price of precious metals remains underestimated. This is one of the big dominoes that continues to teeter. >>
The Greeks aren't anymore irresponsible than any other democracy. Everyone votes for more stuff all the time and sends the bill to their grandchildren.
<< <i>The Greeks aren't anymore irresponsible than any other democracy. Everyone votes for more stuff all the time and sends the bill to their grandchildren. >>
As socialists they are tad more fiscally irresponsible and more dependent on someone else paying the bills. Why else do they keep running out of other people's money?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I do think the drachma is the only long term solution, because I don't see how you can make a legal agreement with Sryiza but it will be painful in the near term no doubt.