<< <i>I suspect that, unfortunately, Greece will be saved at all costs. Many forget that, in an effort to keep Russia or China from gaining a foothold in Greece, the numbers were fudged to allow Greece into the European Union. With the slow simmer of a cold war now being warmed up fear of Russian expansion determines Greece's, and ultimately, the European Union's future.
Those that have extended debt to Greece have only themselves to blame and now must pay the piper, again. Events up to now have been nothing short of a game of "chicken." The Greeks, with Russia waiting in the wings, are about to change the game to Russian Roulette. It is clear who's hand holds the pistol. Nothing will change Greece's continually demonstrated fiscal irresponsibility until their bluff is called. If the leg has cancer you cut it off.
The ultimate affect of this crisis on the price of precious metals remains underestimated. This is one of the big dominoes that continues to teeter. >>
The Greeks aren't anymore irresponsible than any other democracy. Everyone votes for more stuff all the time and sends the bill to their grandchildren. >>
Not so. On a population percentage basis, Greece has more commie sympathizers than any so called Western Democracies. Even more than the French. Let them wallow in their own crap.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
If that's not the main point, what is?
Maybe the difference is that the US can still sell it's paper in spite of the government's financial imbalances, whereas Greece can't get away with doing that anymore. But the ratios are actually worse for the US, correct?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Unless this country makes major changes in how they manage our money and run the economy, I see the US following Greece some day.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Unless this country makes major changes in how they manage our money and run the economy, I see the US following Greece some day. >>
Well, we are doing a heck of a lot better than we were doing on, say, Nov. 1, 2008. I remember that date because my first wife and I went to our local animal welfare league shelter to drop off our newspapers for them to use, and there was a line of people out the door waiting to drop off animals.
I talked with one of the people I knew there and they said that so many people were losing their homes and being forced to give up their pets that the shelter had no room to put them anymore. My wife responded by saying we have to take another cat to help them. The cat's name is Lucky, and she is sitting here in my office.
Let's see, who was President on Nov. 1, 2008?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
A classic example of socialists finally running out of other peoples' money.
Not only their own money but other EU countries money. Ridiculous. They should have been cut loose years ago. Greece is still part of NATO even if they leave the EU if that matters at all. I see a Detroit like scenario with a lot of Greek refugees fleeing.
<< <i>I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
If that's not the main point, what is?
Maybe the difference is that the US can still sell it's paper in spite of the government's financial imbalances, whereas Greece can't get away with doing that anymore. But the ratios are actually worse for the US, correct? >>
Unlike the US, Greece, as a member of the EU, cannot print currency as needed. For now they are at the mercy of the EU central bank that does all the printing. Greece is a great example of what happens when outsiders control your currency and your economy.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
<< <i>I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
If that's not the main point, what is? >>
Greeks don't pay taxes. >>
However, they are supposed to. The International Monetary Fund and Greece’s other creditors have argued for years that the country’s debt crisis could be largely resolved if the government just cracked down on tax evasion.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
If that's not the main point, what is? >>
Greeks don't pay taxes. >>
However, they are supposed to. The International Monetary Fund and Greece’s other creditors have argued for years that the country’s debt crisis could be largely resolved if the government just cracked down on tax evasion. >>
Yup, a system of laws. We hate our laws but they are what enable us to continue to be the innovative might of the world. Tough to advance when there is no advancement.
Unlike the US, Greece, as a member of the EU, cannot print currency as needed. For now they are at the mercy of the EU central bank that does all the printing. Greece is a great example of what happens when outsiders control your currency and your economy
agreed!
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>Unlike the US, Greece, as a member of the EU, cannot print currency as needed. For now they are at the mercy of the EU central bank that does all the printing. Greece is a great example of what happens when outsiders control your currency and your economy
agreed! >>
Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!!
Zerohedge reminded me in a recent article that the EU tbtf banks kept buying Greek bonds and continued to regard them as prime paper even though there was no chance of being repaid in full. Why didn't they devalue the bonds and let the bankers suffer the consequences of their own bad investments? Oh no, they had to be bailed out, just like here.
As I recall, a chunk of US bank bailout money went to Europe as well. To top it off, MF Global went under precisely because they bought Greek bonds.
It's about the bankers, and never mind about the Greeks or taxpayers everywhere. If you aren't connected, you can just forget it. Move along. Nothing to see here.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I don't believe MF Global had any Greek bonds. Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, yes but no Greek.
It also failed due to poor management and accounting schemes. Not because of the decline in the debt of the aforementioned countries.
There is nothing wrong with buying or holding debt that may fail if there are sufficient capital reserves.
So Greece defaults, like that has never happened before? Life goes on. The USA is still the dominant superpower. Your US dollars are still good for exchange of goods and services.
<< <i>[ Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!! >>
<< <i>[ Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!! >>
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, good grief.
Sportscard forum strikes again >>
+1
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>[ Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!! >>
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, good grief.
Sportscard forum strikes again >>
Isn't your negative portrayal of the sportscard forum also a sweeping generalization?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Isn't your negative portrayal of the sportscard forum also a sweeping generalization?
LMAO! You tell em PH, the b-tards are hypocrites of epic proportions round here. yeah, I've been drinkin a little celebratin a special day today, winding down now... so what lol.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
They won't pay back what they owe unless they're given money to pay it back, that's not paying it back. What they already loaned is gone. Instead of negotiating just don't give them more and let them figure out how to move on. If they join the Russians nothing will stop it, let them deal with it however they want but give no more money. I think they'll realize that being with Russia will be worse and they'll have a reason to try to stay with the EU.
<< <i>[ Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!! >>
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, good grief.
Sportscard forum strikes again >>
Isn't your negative portrayal of the sportscard forum also a sweeping generalization? >>
We have a printing press thats the only difference . If we didn't we'd have been in the same place 40 years ago as the Greeks are now.
There are enormous differences, start with bountiful natural resources, add leading universities, vast industrial facilities, and top with a constitutional system of government that is the worst on the planet, except for all of the others. Realizing it's hip to be cynical and down on America, but of course someone has to take the other point of view once in a while, too.
Greece would have defaulted 4 or 5 years ago without the last intervention. But they were "SAVED" and got more loans and now they are going to default anyway. So a few years went by their economy still sucks they rocked the old 25% unemployment thing but they owe more than they did, still can't pay and what was the point?
No Greeks were helped , no Greeks were saved .
Seriously its very noble of the EU or the IMF to offer a bailout to those in need.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I suspect that, unfortunately, Greece will be saved at all costs. Many forget that, in an effort to keep Russia or China from gaining a foothold in Greece, the numbers were fudged to allow Greece into the European Union. With the slow simmer of a cold war now being warmed up fear of Russian expansion determines Greece's, and ultimately, the European Union's future.
Those that have extended debt to Greece have only themselves to blame and now must pay the piper, again. Events up to now have been nothing short of a game of "chicken." The Greeks, with Russia waiting in the wings, are about to change the game to Russian Roulette. It is clear who's hand holds the pistol. Nothing will change Greece's continually demonstrated fiscal irresponsibility until their bluff is called. If the leg has cancer you cut it off.
The ultimate affect of this crisis on the price of precious metals remains underestimated. This is one of the big dominoes that continues to teeter. >>
The Greeks aren't anymore irresponsible than any other democracy. Everyone votes for more stuff all the time and sends the bill to their grandchildren. >>
Not so. On a population percentage basis, Greece has more commie sympathizers than any so called Western Democracies. Even more than the French. Let them wallow in their own crap.
If that's not the main point, what is?
Maybe the difference is that the US can still sell it's paper in spite of the government's financial imbalances, whereas Greece can't get away with doing that anymore. But the ratios are actually worse for the US, correct?
I knew it would happen.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Unless this country makes major changes in how they manage our money and run the economy, I see the US following Greece some day. >>
Well, we are doing a heck of a lot better than we were doing on, say, Nov. 1, 2008. I remember that date because my first wife and I went to our local animal welfare league shelter to drop off our newspapers for them to use, and there was a line of people out the door waiting to drop off animals.
I talked with one of the people I knew there and they said that so many people were losing their homes and being forced to give up their pets that the shelter had no room to put them anymore. My wife responded by saying we have to take another cat to help them. The cat's name is Lucky, and she is sitting here in my office.
Let's see, who was President on Nov. 1, 2008?
Not only their own money but other EU countries money. Ridiculous. They should have been cut loose years ago. Greece is still part of NATO even if they leave the EU if that matters at all. I see a Detroit like scenario with a lot of Greek refugees fleeing.
Box of 20
<< <i>I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
If that's not the main point, what is?
Maybe the difference is that the US can still sell it's paper in spite of the government's financial imbalances, whereas Greece can't get away with doing that anymore. But the ratios are actually worse for the US, correct? >>
Unlike the US, Greece, as a member of the EU, cannot print currency as needed. For now they are at the mercy of the EU central bank that does all the printing. Greece is a great example of what happens when outsiders control your currency and your economy.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Socialism is still somehow a dirty word around here even though by most checklists we would register as a socialist country .
<< <i>I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
If that's not the main point, what is? >>
Greeks don't pay taxes.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
If that's not the main point, what is? >>
Greeks don't pay taxes. >>
However, they are supposed to. The International Monetary Fund and Greece’s other creditors have argued for years that the country’s debt crisis could be largely resolved if the government just cracked down on tax evasion.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not sure that I entirely understand the problem in Greece. Is it that they've been borrowing to support a lifestyle that they can't afford? If that's the main point, how are they different than California or Illinois? Or the USA?
If that's not the main point, what is? >>
Greeks don't pay taxes. >>
However, they are supposed to. The International Monetary Fund and Greece’s other creditors have argued for years that the country’s debt crisis could be largely resolved if the government just cracked down on tax evasion. >>
Yup, a system of laws. We hate our laws but they are what enable us to continue to be the innovative might of the world. Tough to advance when there is no advancement.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
agreed!
<< <i>Unlike the US, Greece, as a member of the EU, cannot print currency as needed. For now they are at the mercy of the EU central bank that does all the printing. Greece is a great example of what happens when outsiders control your currency and your economy
agreed! >>
Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!!
I knew it would happen.
As I recall, a chunk of US bank bailout money went to Europe as well. To top it off, MF Global went under precisely because they bought Greek bonds.
It's about the bankers, and never mind about the Greeks or taxpayers everywhere. If you aren't connected, you can just forget it. Move along. Nothing to see here.
I knew it would happen.
It also failed due to poor management and accounting schemes. Not because of the decline in the debt of the aforementioned countries.
There is nothing wrong with buying or holding debt that may fail if there are sufficient capital reserves.
So Greece defaults, like that has never happened before? Life goes on. The USA is still the dominant superpower. Your US dollars are still good for exchange of goods and services.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>[
Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!! >>
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, good grief.
Sportscard forum strikes again
<< <i>
<< <i>[
Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!! >>
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, good grief.
Sportscard forum strikes again >>
+1
<< <i>
<< <i>[
Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!! >>
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, good grief.
Sportscard forum strikes again >>
Isn't your negative portrayal of the sportscard forum also a sweeping generalization?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
LMAO! You tell em PH, the b-tards are hypocrites of epic proportions round here. yeah, I've been drinkin a little celebratin a special day today, winding down now... so what lol.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Let the Russians have that boat anchor, straight to the bottom.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>(Yes it will be interesting to see if Greece chooses Berlin or Moscow.)
Let the Russians have that boat anchor, straight to the bottom. >>
+1....right to the bottom!
<< <i> (Yes it will be interesting to see if Greece chooses Berlin or Moscow.) >>
When tantrums don't work, maybe blackmail will.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Are we forgetting about the 48% here in America ???????????
Would the 48% give up their cable TV or their Iphones to balance the federal budget?
We have a printing press thats the only difference . If we didn't we'd have been in the same place 40 years ago as the Greeks are now.
They won't pay back what they owe unless they're given money to pay it back, that's not paying it back.
What they already loaned is gone. Instead of negotiating just don't give them more and let them figure out how to move on. If they join the Russians nothing will stop it, let them deal with it however they want but give no more money. I think they'll realize that being with Russia will be worse and they'll have a reason to try to stay with the EU.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>[
Has anyone here ever met a Greek person? I have. They are the most lazy people you will ever meet. Giving back late debts, they will. Will they pay them in full. Absolutely 100% Positively NO!! >>
Speaking of sweeping generalizations, good grief.
Sportscard forum strikes again >>
Isn't your negative portrayal of the sportscard forum also a sweeping generalization? >>
Maybe, but probably not ;
There are enormous differences, start with bountiful natural resources, add leading universities, vast industrial facilities, and top with a constitutional system of government that is the worst on the planet, except for all of the others. Realizing it's hip to be cynical and down on America, but of course someone has to take the other point of view once in a while, too.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I knew it would happen.
Greece would have defaulted 4 or 5 years ago without the last intervention. But they were "SAVED" and got more loans and now they are going to default anyway. So a few years went by their economy still sucks they rocked the old 25% unemployment thing but they owe more than they did, still can't pay and what was the point?
No Greeks were helped , no Greeks were saved .
Seriously its very noble of the EU or the IMF to offer a bailout to those in need.