<< <i>So here is a thought, what about dropping the enormous contiguous space requirement. If we can get a space big enough for all of the dealers tables (which I have no real idea what that would be) we can put all of the exhibits and collectors displays in a separate room. Of the people who come to the shows, a vast majority of the people are there to buy and sell coins with the exhibits being an extra bonus. >>
This is -- for the most part -- a non-starter, for several reasons.
1) Education is the ANA's main focus and that is defined in our Congressional Charter. In the few cities where this has happened, attendance in the exhibit areas drops dramatically.
2) Having items located in separate rooms increases our security costs as well.
Greg >>
Reduce the space by increasing the price of the tables and making less available. Make the same money, reduce the space and broaden the venue options. >>
The table prices are high enough and the $250 fee to share a table in already way to high.
<< <i>Yeah, the same way women tell a guy who asks her out who she isn't interested in that "I'm just not ready to be in a relationship right now"... Translation: I am not interested.
When a CVB or convention center tells you to come back in the future, they're telling you that they are not interested unless there are no other options and everybody else in turn as turned them down. The parallel is the woman who finally accepts your invite for a date for 8pm on Saturday night at 7:30pm. They figure a free dinner is better than no dinner at all. The ANA is that guy and the convention centers are that woman. And when the D-listers turn you down it's basically the girl with acne and braces who's saying no thanks.
Perhaps the problem isn't with the scheduling and logistics. Perhaps the ANA just isn't good enough selling themselves and persuading cities that it is to their benefit to host their annual conventions. >>
I could make some wisecrack, like, "Wei, have you tried match.com?", but I won't.
<< <i> It's totally understandable when places like the McCormick, Javits, and Moscone Center turn down the ANA but when even the D-listers don't want you it says a lot. >>
A great deal of the refusals have to do with how forward the bookings are that the ANA is trying to lock-in. If it were a case of a year or two out those cities might be much more receptive if the space had no / limited prospects. They're gambling that something - anything - will come along in the interim 3 years that provides mo' $$$ to the city than ANA, and they're usually right, thus the cold shoulders. Who the hell needs to know 5 years in advance where the ANA show is going?
Austin's building downtown hotel rooms like crazy. They have a good sized convention center, with more space in the pipeline. Their direct flights nationally have expanded a bunch over the last few years.
I only mention this because it's still relatively undiscovered as a national convention destination, and local promoters are likely less "spoiled" and more receptive to getting space and dates filled. Lots of good restaurants and fun things to do downtown these days.
<< <i>Please not New Orleans for the World's Fair of Money. We were there in 1972 and 1981. It is miserably hot in August and is nothing but a slum. >>
Agreed it's too hot in August. But to say its nothing but a slum?
To address the hotel room situation, perhaps the ANA could do a better job negotiating this? The Hyatt is the cheapest in the room block at $169 and it is sold out. The Hilton is $181 for the room block on the ANA, but if you book directly at the Hilton it is only $123 per night...
<< <i>To address the hotel room situation, perhaps the ANA could do a better job negotiating this? The Hyatt is the cheapest in the room block at $169 and it is sold out. The Hilton is $181 for the room block on the ANA, but if you book directly at the Hilton it is only $123 per night... >>
Where are you seeing that rate and for what dates? I checked the Hilton site for 8/11-15 and the best price I saw was $199.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
I'm on the Hilton Rosemont website. Just booked a room from Aug 7-15 with the AAA discount for $123 per night. I'll shorten the reservation once I make my travel plans, but it seemed like a good deal. Seem that the Hyatt room block (my preferred hotel) is sold out though.
<< <i>So here is a thought, what about dropping the enormous contiguous space requirement. If we can get a space big enough for all of the dealers tables (which I have no real idea what that would be) we can put all of the exhibits and collectors displays in a separate room. Of the people who come to the shows, a vast majority of the people are there to buy and sell coins with the exhibits being an extra bonus. >>
This is -- for the most part -- a non-starter, for several reasons.
1) Education is the ANA's main focus and that is defined in our Congressional Charter. In the few cities where this has happened, attendance in the exhibit areas drops dramatically.
2) Having items located in separate rooms increases our security costs as well.
Greg >>
Agree that shouldn't drop educational aspects....but that could easily be in another room/area. As for the increase in security costs....yep. That it is. That's the price for getting things out there to other areas.
Of course, is the charter really is "education", then it makes sense to buck up, pay a little extra, and MOVE the convention to places it hasn't been for a long while.
If costs are the main issue, then don't claim education is. If education is, then don't use "added security costs" as a reason to say no.
How much (ballpark figures or a range) extra would it be? If the ANA hadn't lost so much due to all the lawsuits, maybe it wouldn't be an issue.....
<< <i>mostly due to not having enough hotel nights committed in relation to exhibit space at this far in advance: >>
Agree with others who have said the problem is that it is way too far in advance. If I were in charge of a convention booking location, I wouldn't want to book most things 5+ years out either. Seriously. Not when I am having to try to guarantee rooms, etc, being available.
I think the folks, yourself included, Greg, who run for an ANA office and do your best during your time there, are doing a good job and the best you can. It can't be easy. I do think, however, that, if there isn't already, there should be someone who has done bookings for things like this in locations that are looked at, as a job. Someone who hasn't been involved with it for the last "x" # of years.....get some new blood/new attempts going.
Always a catch-22 for us west coasters......not enough of us to get the conventions and the east coast dealers whine and get heard, and without the conventions, not as likely for us to grow our numbers. I won't be going to Chicago for this. I won't go to Atlanta. I won't go to the east coast. Same reason that many east coasters don't want to come here. They just get their way more often. So much for education for the rest of us, eh?
<< <i>I'm on the Hilton Rosemont website. Just booked a room from Aug 7-15 with the AAA discount for $123 per night. I'll shorten the reservation once I make my travel plans, but it seemed like a good deal. Seem that the Hyatt room block (my preferred hotel) is sold out though. >>
Thanks for the heads up. I don't think that's supposed to happen, but I'm not the expert on convention room blocks. I've emailed our convention director and will get back to you with what I find out.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>Agree with others who have said the problem is that it is way too far in advance. If I were in charge of a convention booking location, I wouldn't want to book most things 5+ years out either. Seriously. Not when I am having to try to guarantee rooms, etc, being available. >>
The reason the ANA is looking 3-5 years in advance is that convention planning done previously looked at booking sites 2-3 years in advance and we did not have a good selection of choice to choose from -- mostly because the cities we wanted we already booked up! Additionally, the table sales process for a convention starts more than a year in advance -- we simply can't choose a location 18 months before the show.
<< <i>I do think, however, that, if there isn't already, there should be someone who has done bookings for things like this in locations that are looked at, as a job. Someone who hasn't been involved with it for the last "x" # of years.....get some new blood/new attempts going. >>
We have not only an ANA staff member who has significant experience as a convention planner and also utilize a firm which specializes in convention planning. The problem is that the overall list of cities with the facility size and air service we need -- in taxes without onerous tax regulations -- is far smaller than many people realize.
<< <i>I won't be going to Chicago for this. I won't go to Atlanta. I won't go to the east coast. Same reason that many east coasters don't want to come here. They just get their way more often. So much for education for the rest of us, eh? >>
The biggest problems with the west coast is the tax nexus issue in California and the fact that the Seattle convention center has repeatedly refused to bid on our shows. It is not for lack of trying!
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>I'm on the Hilton Rosemont website. Just booked a room from Aug 7-15 with the AAA discount for $123 per night. I'll shorten the reservation once I make my travel plans, but it seemed like a good deal. Seem that the Hyatt room block (my preferred hotel) is sold out though. >>
That was a great rate but I have had problems shortening stays once reserved. I just make multiple reservations with different lengths.
<< <i>So here is a thought, what about dropping the enormous contiguous space requirement. If we can get a space big enough for all of the dealers tables (which I have no real idea what that would be) we can put all of the exhibits and collectors displays in a separate room. Of the people who come to the shows, a vast majority of the people are there to buy and sell coins with the exhibits being an extra bonus. >>
This is -- for the most part -- a non-starter, for several reasons.
1) Education is the ANA's main focus and that is defined in our Congressional Charter. In the few cities where this has happened, attendance in the exhibit areas drops dramatically.
2) Having items located in separate rooms increases our security costs as well.
Greg >>
I am in no way arguing for this but if education was your main focus, wouldn't the exhibits be in the front and center in the room not in the back corner. Also, if people came specifically for the educational opportunities, why would it negatively effect viewership if it were in an adjacent room? While the educational aspects are important, they do not put food on proverbial table. Without the $500k+ in bourse fees, there would be no venue for the educational opportunities to be presented. Whether you like it or not, you have to keep the dealers happy or there will be no show. Do you remember a few years ago when the ANA tried to put the show in Indianapolis? I believe that if you cut the space requirement and maybe plan only 2-3 years out, you would get better results. Saying the space change is a non-starter is highly problematic.
If anybody has Hilton Honors points, got 3 nights at the Rosemont Double Tree across the street for 90,000 points. I figure Hilton points at 1/2 cent per, so about $150 per night including taxes/fees all in, but using points, its kinda funny money anyway. No penalty to change/cancel on 1 day notice.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So here is a thought, what about dropping the enormous contiguous space requirement. If we can get a space big enough for all of the dealers tables (which I have no real idea what that would be) we can put all of the exhibits and collectors displays in a separate room. Of the people who come to the shows, a vast majority of the people are there to buy and sell coins with the exhibits being an extra bonus. >>
This is -- for the most part -- a non-starter, for several reasons.
1) Education is the ANA's main focus and that is defined in our Congressional Charter. In the few cities where this has happened, attendance in the exhibit areas drops dramatically.
2) Having items located in separate rooms increases our security costs as well.
Greg >>
Reduce the space by increasing the price of the tables and making less available. Make the same money, reduce the space and broaden the venue options. >>
The table prices are high enough and the $250 fee to share a table in already way to high.
<< <i>Yeah, the same way women tell a guy who asks her out who she isn't interested in that "I'm just not ready to be in a relationship right now"...
Translation: I am not interested.
When a CVB or convention center tells you to come back in the future, they're telling you that they are not interested unless there are no other options and everybody else in turn as turned them down. The parallel is the woman who finally accepts your invite for a date for 8pm on Saturday night at 7:30pm. They figure a free dinner is better than no dinner at all. The ANA is that guy and the convention centers are that woman. And when the D-listers turn you down it's basically the girl with acne and braces who's saying no thanks.
Perhaps the problem isn't with the scheduling and logistics. Perhaps the ANA just isn't good enough selling themselves and persuading cities that it is to their benefit to host their annual conventions. >>
I could make some wisecrack, like, "Wei, have you tried match.com?", but I won't.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
It's totally understandable when places like the McCormick, Javits, and Moscone Center turn down the ANA but when even the D-listers don't want you it says a lot. >>
A great deal of the refusals have to do with how forward the bookings are that the ANA is trying to lock-in. If it were a case of a year or two out those cities might be much more receptive if the space had no / limited prospects. They're gambling that something - anything - will come along in the interim 3 years that provides mo' $$$ to the city than ANA, and they're usually right, thus the cold shoulders. Who the hell needs to know 5 years in advance where the ANA show is going?
I only mention this because it's still relatively undiscovered as a national convention destination, and local promoters are likely less "spoiled" and more receptive to getting space and dates filled. Lots of good restaurants and fun things to do downtown these days.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Please not New Orleans for the World's Fair of Money. We were there in 1972 and 1981. It is miserably hot in August and is nothing but a slum. >>
Agreed it's too hot in August. But to say its nothing but a slum?
<< <i>To address the hotel room situation, perhaps the ANA could do a better job negotiating this? The Hyatt is the cheapest in the room block at $169 and it is sold out. The Hilton is $181 for the room block on the ANA, but if you book directly at the Hilton it is only $123 per night... >>
Where are you seeing that rate and for what dates? I checked the Hilton site for 8/11-15 and the best price I saw was $199.
Greg
Seem that the Hyatt room block (my preferred hotel) is sold out though.
<< <i>
<< <i>So here is a thought, what about dropping the enormous contiguous space requirement. If we can get a space big enough for all of the dealers tables (which I have no real idea what that would be) we can put all of the exhibits and collectors displays in a separate room. Of the people who come to the shows, a vast majority of the people are there to buy and sell coins with the exhibits being an extra bonus. >>
This is -- for the most part -- a non-starter, for several reasons.
1) Education is the ANA's main focus and that is defined in our Congressional Charter. In the few cities where this has happened, attendance in the exhibit areas drops dramatically.
2) Having items located in separate rooms increases our security costs as well.
Greg >>
Agree that shouldn't drop educational aspects....but that could easily be in another room/area.
As for the increase in security costs....yep. That it is. That's the price for getting things out there to other areas.
Of course, is the charter really is "education", then it makes sense to buck up, pay a little extra, and MOVE the convention to places it hasn't been for a long while.
If costs are the main issue, then don't claim education is. If education is, then don't use "added security costs" as a reason to say no.
How much (ballpark figures or a range) extra would it be? If the ANA hadn't lost so much due to all the lawsuits, maybe it wouldn't be an issue.....
<< <i>mostly due to not having enough hotel nights committed in relation to exhibit space at this far in advance: >>
Agree with others who have said the problem is that it is way too far in advance. If I were in charge of a convention booking location, I wouldn't want to book most things 5+ years out either. Seriously. Not when I am having to try to guarantee rooms, etc, being available.
I think the folks, yourself included, Greg, who run for an ANA office and do your best during your time there, are doing a good job and the best you can. It can't be easy.
I do think, however, that, if there isn't already, there should be someone who has done bookings for things like this in locations that are looked at, as a job. Someone who hasn't been involved with it for the last "x" # of years.....get some new blood/new attempts going.
Always a catch-22 for us west coasters......not enough of us to get the conventions and the east coast dealers whine and get heard, and without the conventions, not as likely for us to grow our numbers.
I won't be going to Chicago for this. I won't go to Atlanta. I won't go to the east coast. Same reason that many east coasters don't want to come here. They just get their way more often. So much for education for the rest of us, eh?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I'm on the Hilton Rosemont website. Just booked a room from Aug 7-15 with the AAA discount for $123 per night. I'll shorten the reservation once I make my travel plans, but it seemed like a good deal.
Seem that the Hyatt room block (my preferred hotel) is sold out though. >>
Thanks for the heads up. I don't think that's supposed to happen, but I'm not the expert on convention room blocks. I've emailed our convention director and will get back to you with what I find out.
Greg
<< <i>I could make some wisecrack, like, "Wei, have you tried match.com?", but I won't. >>
Really glad you decided against it...
<< <i>Agree with others who have said the problem is that it is way too far in advance. If I were in charge of a convention booking location, I wouldn't want to book most things 5+ years out either. Seriously. Not when I am having to try to guarantee rooms, etc, being available. >>
The reason the ANA is looking 3-5 years in advance is that convention planning done previously looked at booking sites 2-3 years in advance and we did not have a good selection of choice to choose from -- mostly because the cities we wanted we already booked up! Additionally, the table sales process for a convention starts more than a year in advance -- we simply can't choose a location 18 months before the show.
<< <i>I do think, however, that, if there isn't already, there should be someone who has done bookings for things like this in locations that are looked at, as a job. Someone who hasn't been involved with it for the last "x" # of years.....get some new blood/new attempts going. >>
We have not only an ANA staff member who has significant experience as a convention planner and also utilize a firm which specializes in convention planning. The problem is that the overall list of cities with the facility size and air service we need -- in taxes without onerous tax regulations -- is far smaller than many people realize.
<< <i>I won't be going to Chicago for this. I won't go to Atlanta. I won't go to the east coast. Same reason that many east coasters don't want to come here. They just get their way more often. So much for education for the rest of us, eh?
The biggest problems with the west coast is the tax nexus issue in California and the fact that the Seattle convention center has repeatedly refused to bid on our shows. It is not for lack of trying!
Greg
<< <i>I'm on the Hilton Rosemont website. Just booked a room from Aug 7-15 with the AAA discount for $123 per night. I'll shorten the reservation once I make my travel plans, but it seemed like a good deal.
Seem that the Hyatt room block (my preferred hotel) is sold out though. >>
That was a great rate but I have had problems shortening stays once reserved. I just make multiple reservations with different lengths.
<< <i>
<< <i>So here is a thought, what about dropping the enormous contiguous space requirement. If we can get a space big enough for all of the dealers tables (which I have no real idea what that would be) we can put all of the exhibits and collectors displays in a separate room. Of the people who come to the shows, a vast majority of the people are there to buy and sell coins with the exhibits being an extra bonus. >>
This is -- for the most part -- a non-starter, for several reasons.
1) Education is the ANA's main focus and that is defined in our Congressional Charter. In the few cities where this has happened, attendance in the exhibit areas drops dramatically.
2) Having items located in separate rooms increases our security costs as well.
Greg >>
I am in no way arguing for this but if education was your main focus, wouldn't the exhibits be in the front and center in the room not in the back corner. Also, if people came specifically for the educational opportunities, why would it negatively effect viewership if it were in an adjacent room? While the educational aspects are important, they do not put food on proverbial table. Without the $500k+ in bourse fees, there would be no venue for the educational opportunities to be presented. Whether you like it or not, you have to keep the dealers happy or there will be no show. Do you remember a few years ago when the ANA tried to put the show in Indianapolis? I believe that if you cut the space requirement and maybe plan only 2-3 years out, you would get better results. Saying the space change is a non-starter is highly problematic.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye