<< <i>The Seattle Convention Center considers the ANA show too small >>
Every week the Washington State Convention Center hosts multiple events much smaller than ANA. The 1990 ANA convention was in Seattle at this venue, it was a great show.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
Greg, I applaud the addition of Virginia Beach. I hope that it gets some consideration!
As for your comment about South Carolina lacking convention space, there are actually 2 buildings in Greenville, SC that may be worth considering.
Bon Secours Wellness Arena (formerly Bi-lo Center) and the TD Convention Center. Both have well over 200,000 feet of convention space. Unfortunately most airlines, save for Southwest don't frequent Greenvile with larger planes, but I think that it's likely comparable to Austin, Texas with a well-established collector base.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
<< <i>If the ANA cared about taxes on coin and bullion they would take a FIRM stance and hold the conventions in states that have no sales tax on the coins and bullion.
That way other states may follow in order to benifit local businesses and collect taxes on the added revenue gained from coin conventions.
Who's side is the ANA on? >>
Bingo!
No sales tax for coins and bullion in South Dakota.........for what it's worth. >>
Yes.
And from what I hear, Sturgis, SD is able to host a large convention. >>
I was in Sturgis early last August and if you don't count spaces under large temporary tents there isn't anything suitable in the area.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>We should NEVER hold an ANA in any state that has any taxation on coins. Use the little bit of clout we have. >>
Let me show you where that leaves us... would people really be happy with that short of a list?
Arizona - Phoenix (But not a desirable location for a summer convention and not considered a good convention city) Colorado - Denver Georgia - Atlanta Illinois - Rosemont Louisiana - New Orleans Michigan - Detroit Missouri - St. Louis, Kansas City Oregon - Portland Pennsylvania - Philadelphia, Pittsburgh Texas - Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, San Antonio Utah - Salt Lake City
Other states eliminated:
Alaska - No suitable locations California - Tax nexus Connecticut - No suitable locations Delaware - No suitable locations Florida - Sales tax on foreign coins and bullion Idaho - No suitable locations Iowa - No suitable locations Maryland - Tax over $1000 Massachusetts - Tax over $1000 Montana - No suitable locations New Hampshire - No suitable locations New York - Tax over $1000 North Dakota - No suitable locations Rhode Island - No suitable locations South Carolina - No suitable locations South Dakota - No suitable locations Washington - Seattle considers us too small Wyoming - No suitable locations
Greg >>
Loop the 11 states listed as weather permits and hope the list grows over time.
<< <i>To address the various questions / suggestions...
<< <i> I understand Philadelphia won't get a show again because of the hassle and expense related to "union rules". >>
Philadelphia will be hosting the 2018 World's Fair of Money. As indicated, the union situation in Philadelphia is much improved than in past years.
<< <i>What I can't understand is why isn't Pittsburgh on the list?? >>
Probably because of Philadelphia in 2018.
<< <i>Seattle should win based on Slammer's picture alone >>
The Seattle Convention Center considers the ANA show too small and will not bid for the convention.
Greg >>
Try the Meydenbauer Convention Center in Bellevue. I feel like the ANA doesn't care about those of us in Washington State and I have dropped my membership as I didn't feel like it was worth having. Between the lack of the love and the legal issues that were ongoing, I chose not to keep paying.
<< <i>Seattle should win based on Slammer's picture alone >>
The Seattle Convention Center considers the ANA show too small and will not bid for the convention.
Greg >>
BTW....there have been smaller shows there...and there are other areas. If one only focused on the Washington State Convention Center in Seattle, then I have been to shows smaller. Possibly some other reason there is an issue other than just "they will not bid because it is too small". Might be the reason you are getting or might just be a copout. Sounds like BS based on what I have seen there.........
Hey Greg, I mentioned it before - the TD Convention Center in Greenville, SC has a 230,000 square foot exhibit hall along with over 60,000 square feet of meeting rooms and it's less than 10 minutes from the Greenville-Spartanburg airport. (We do have the SCNA show there every October - granted, it's only 125 tables but we certainly do rattle around like two peas in a pod).
Yes, I know - the "big jets" don't fly to Greenville but all the airlines do have flights there, parking is free at the Center, and hotel rates are quite reasonable.
<< <i>We should NEVER hold an ANA in any state that has any taxation on coins. Use the little bit of clout we have. >>
Let me show you where that leaves us... would people really be happy with that short of a list?
Arizona - Phoenix (But not a desirable location for a summer convention and not considered a good convention city) Colorado - Denver Georgia - Atlanta Illinois - Rosemont Louisiana - New Orleans Michigan - Detroit Missouri - St. Louis, Kansas City Oregon - Portland Pennsylvania - Philadelphia, Pittsburgh Texas - Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, San Antonio Utah - Salt Lake City
Other states eliminated:
Alaska - No suitable locations California - Tax nexus Connecticut - No suitable locations Delaware - No suitable locations Florida - Sales tax on foreign coins and bullion Idaho - No suitable locations Iowa - No suitable locations Maryland - Tax over $1000 Massachusetts - Tax over $1000 Montana - No suitable locations New Hampshire - No suitable locations New York - Tax over $1000 North Dakota - No suitable locations Rhode Island - No suitable locations South Carolina - No suitable locations South Dakota - No suitable locations Washington - Seattle considers us too small Wyoming - No suitable locations
Greg >>
Hey GregL -- Kudos to you for coming on this forum and engaging with the membership and other interested parties.
The ANA board members need to do more of this. You are helping to de-mystify the process of choosing the ANA convention sites. There is a lot more to it than most of us (including me) thought there was.
It is much easier not to engage; thanks for not taking the easy way.
Dave Wnuck. Redbook contributor; long time PNG Member; listed on the PCGS Board of Experts. PM me with your email address to receive my e-newsletter, and visit DaveWcoins.com Find me on eBay at davewcoins
Hey Greg, I mentioned it before - the TD Convention Center in Greenville, SC has a 230,000 square foot exhibit hall along with over 60,000 square feet of meeting rooms and it's less than 10 minutes from the Greenville-Spartanburg airport. (We do have the SCNA show there every October - granted, it's only 125 tables but we certainly do rattle around like two peas in a pod).
Yes, I know - the "big jets" don't fly to Greenville but all the airlines do have flights there, parking is free at the Center, and hotel rates are quite reasonable. >>
<< <i>South Carolina - No suitable locations
Greg >> >>
heh.
Suitable facilities can be easily searched, along with all of the other aspects of hosting a convention. The board may consider contacting SMG as they manage many, many convention centers throughout the US, and get some valuable guidance.
IMHO, the board should seek out a limited number of facilities in places like Phillie or Orlando in the East, Chicago or Dallas in the center off the country, and Anaheim or Denver in the West, and simply rotate the conventions among them. The sites need to be population centers within a reasonable drive of 20+ million people, have mainline air service (preferably a hub), and be destinations that have a draw beyond the coin show. Even cities such as St Louis somewhat qualify. Dealers should be less concerned about how spiffy a facility is, or how many times we've been there (enough with the "we were just there" mentality), than whether or not real business is going to be done given the insane bourse fees the ANA levies on dealers.
Thank you GregL for taking the time to let the membership here "in" on what it takes to have the logistics in place for a convention this size.
and being a dealer from South Carolina, I agree with John that the TD Center would accommodate a show this size. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of hotels within walking distance and flights as discussed, 90% or more would be regional carriers into Greenville/Spartanburg although the airport is less than a mile from the TD Center.
However, I do agree that the ANA should strongly consider the states with tax exemptions even with the "short" list. It allows the collector/dealer community to push for the tax exemption in it's home state and use shows/conventions going to state's with the exemption as a tool to consider the exemption for the state's that currently do not have one.
Each state needs as much leverage as it can get and while ITCA does a HUGE service in this area I believe the ANA could "step up" in (a small) way such as this to also make a statement.
<< <i>Every week the Washington State Convention Center hosts multiple events much smaller than ANA. The 1990 ANA convention was in Seattle at this venue, it was a great show. >>
Those events likely have significant food & beverage purchases, which the ANA convention does not. Food & beverage is a much higher profit margin area than the simple rental of the convention hall.
We have repeatedly requested bids from the WSCC and they have repeatedly rejected offering to make a bid.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>Try the Meydenbauer Convention Center in Bellevue.
I feel like the ANA doesn't care about those of us in Washington State and I have dropped my membership as I didn't feel like it was worth having. >>
That facility has only 54,000 sq ft of exhibit space - 1/4 of what the ANA needs. Additionally, I don't think there are enough hotels within walking distance.
Unfortunately, the ANA cannot force convention centers to bid on our conventions. If you are going to hold that against the ANA, I'm not sure what I can offer you.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i> I agree with John that the TD Center would accommodate a show this size. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of hotels within walking distance and flights as discussed, 90% or more would be regional carriers into Greenville/Spartanburg although the airport is less than a mile from the TD Center. >>
And unfortunately, those two items are probably dealbreakers from a security standpoint. Dealers are not going to want to valet check their inventory on a regional jet... and are not going to want to walk / take a taxi significant distances to a hotel each day.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
Having an auction in a state, with no state tax, would save buyers a bunch of $$$$$$$.
Example a coin won and paid for and picked up at the show would not be subject to taxes.
Therefore a $10,000,000.00 auction sale ( tax rate of 6%) would save the buyers $600,000.00 that money could be used to buy from the dealers on the floor.
Did I explain this right??
Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211
And unfortunately, those two items are probably dealbreakers from a security standpoint. Dealers are not going to want to valet check their inventory on a regional jet... and are not going to want to walk / take a taxi significant distances to a hotel each day.
Greg
and I agree....and again thank you for taking the time to "enlighten" the masses. but please do keep in mind the sales tax exemption states.
<< <i>We have repeatedly requested bids from the WSCC and they have repeatedly rejected offering to make a bid. >>
<< <i>Those events likely have significant food & beverage purchases, which the ANA convention does not. Food & beverage is a much higher profit margin area than the simple rental of the convention hall. >>
The ANA summer convention was held at the WSCC in 1990 and could happen again, if the ANA wanted to include the numismatic community of the Pacific Northwest in their summer convention rotation. Downtown Seattle has exploded in growth since 1990 with companies such as Amazon locating in the city core, and hotels, restaurants, and other attractions are much larger in number.
Hopefully, there will be significant lobbying effort at Portland in two weeks to bring the summer ANA back to Seattle. The WSCC regularly holds events both larger and smaller than the ANA, and could easily host another ANA convention. The ANA should make the collecting membership as important as the dealers when considering locations. It is the collectors that allow the ANA to exist, isn't it?
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
<< <i>I vote San fran but I don't really care. Just not Rosemount again >>
Hang in there, just a few more months until the Chicago experiment is behind us. Kudos to the Chicago Coin Club for a herculean effort over many years. >>
Amen!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>The ANA summer convention was held at the WSCC in 1990 and could happen again, if the ANA wanted to include the numismatic community of the Pacific Northwest in their summer convention rotation. Downtown Seattle has exploded in growth since 1990 with companies such as Amazon locating in the city core, and hotels, restaurants, and other attractions are much larger in number. >>
Very true. The ANA has repeatedly looked to hold it's summer convention in Seattle... however, the WSCC refuses to respond to our request for proposal as they do not consider our show large enough / profitable enough to host.
<< <i>The WSCC regularly holds events both larger and smaller than the ANA, and could easily host another ANA convention. >>
Yes, they could.. but they choose not to bid. It is likely because we are considered a mid-size convention but do not generate the number of hotel nights or food & beverage expense at the convention center for them to be interested.
This is not the ANA's decision... it is WSCC making the decision not to bid on our requests.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
Why have we not been back to St. Louis since 1979?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Why have we not been back to St. Louis since 1979? >>
Two reasons:
1) The union situation at America's Center is (at least was) one of the worst in the country. I need to find out if it has improved or not. I would make Philadelphia of several years ago look like a decent venue.
2) There is a false perception that downtown St. Louis is a dead area. Sure, that was true 20 years ago but it is far different today.
I've raised the possibility of St. Louis on occasion but there are certain current governors who run screaming when they hear it mentioned.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
Greg - thanks for the frank and open replies posted here. I agree with the others that it's good to have dialogue about "why" and "why not" for certain venues. As for the tax situation, much as I like the idea of rewarding "no tax" jurisdictions, the reality is that some compromise will need to be made to include jurisdictions where there is a decent exemption for sales over a certain amount, like Maryland and California, just to keep the selections varied.
For the record, I think the current posted lineup is really good and varied and gets us out of the Rosemont grind, and all places I would consider travelling to:
National Money Show 2015 Mar. 5-7 Oregon Convention Center Portland, Oregon COMMENT: A really nice venue
2016 Mar. 3-5 Dallas Convention Center Dallas, Texas
2017 Mar. 9-11 Orlando, FL ................................................... World's Fair of Money 2015 Aug. 11-15, Donald E. Stephens Convention Center, Rosemont, Illinois
2016 Aug. 9-13, Anaheim Convention Center, Anaheim, Calif. COMMENT: Folks, this is NOT downtown LA. This is an excellent venue!
2017 Aug. 1-5 Denver, CO COMMENT: Hopefully they have the airport rail system done by then.
2018 Aug. Philadelphia, PA Comment: YEAH! Can't wait to OD on food at the Reading Market
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
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Having an auction in a state, with no state tax, would save buyers a bunch of $$$$$$$.
Example a coin won and paid for and picked up at the show would not be subject to taxes.
Therefore a $10,000,000.00 auction sale ( tax rate of 6%) would save the buyers $600,000.00 that money could be used to buy from the dealers on the floor.
Did I explain this right?? >>
Unless you live in CA or NY where the auction firm has to charge you tax anyways.
<< <i>How bout Maine at the Brunswick Navy base site now open to the public. >>
1) No mainline airplane service into the area.
2) Lack of adequate hotels.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
When talking about Detroit is it actually Novi that you are considering? If so, I think it might susprise a lot of people and it could be a great show.................If not Novi, where in Detroit are you thinking?
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Just to make everyone aware of what the ANA needs for a World's Fair of Money:
1) An exhibit hall with at least 200,000 sq ft of contiguous space, along with separate meeting facilities in the same location. (Having this split among different halls, floors, etc. is NOT an option.)
2) Upscale hotels which are located attached to, or within reasonable walking distance, of the convention center.
3) Direct non-regional jet air service to most major cities across the country. (Regional jets require dealers to valet check their inventory, which is a no-go.)
4) A location which does not charge state or city sales tax.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>When talking about Detroit is it actually Novi that you are considering? If so, I think it might susprise a lot of people and it could be a great show.................If not Novi, where in Detroit are you thinking? >>
While it looks like that facility may -- just barely -- meet the space requirements, the hotel at the site has only 124 rooms, which is not nearly enough.
Looking at sites in the Detroit metro, the only facility which would need our needs is likely the COBO Center in Detroit.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
Speaking of Virginia Beach for a mid-winter, I like the area and it seems like that area should make sense, but the club shows down there are pretty marginal.
I would hope an ANA Show could draw in many more people.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle
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<< <i>How bout Maine at the Brunswick Navy base site now open to the public. >>
1) No mainline airplane service into the area.
2) Lack of adequate hotels.
Greg >>
Not disputing any of that just don't know all the specifics.
The last time I went through there they did have a brand new hotel right off the runway and the parkwood inn close by. But I haven't been through there in a while but I do remember that it looked like a ghost town since they closed the base and have been trying to attract new buisneses and such since the closure.
Bowdin colledge right up (1/2-3/4 mi) up the street must have a convention hall in the off season available
Dansco BU washie set empty holes: 32d,32s,34d,35d,36d,37,37d,37s,38,38s,39s.
<< <i>Not disputing any of that just don't know all the specifics. >>
The biggest problem is lack of non-regional jet air service. The city with the closest major airport is Boston, which is a 2 hour drive away.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
Just curious, how many hotels rooms nearby does the ANA try and have available for the show? >>
The ANA wants 175 rooms available for the National Money Show and 650 rooms for the World's Fair of Money.
This does NOT count rooms for dealers and attendees who do not book through the ANA hotel block. As a result, the actual number of rooms needed nearby is higher.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
Just curious, how many hotels rooms nearby does the ANA try and have available for the show? >>
The ANA wants 175 rooms available for the National Money Show and 650 rooms for the World's Fair of Money.
This does NOT count rooms for dealers and attendees who do not book through the ANA hotel block. As a result, the actual number of rooms needed nearby is higher.
Greg >>
Wow that's alot of rooms.
Portland Me, jetport probably cant handle it either dunno.
Dansco BU washie set empty holes: 32d,32s,34d,35d,36d,37,37d,37s,38,38s,39s.
If Boston is chosen, please do not use the Hines Convention Center. A few years back, the convention bourse was split in 2/3 & 1/3 ... it was as if the smaller side was in the boon docks - the Ship of Gold and the Exhibit areas and the lunch carts were there - and less than 100 dealers. Parking at the Prudential Center was $75 for 6 hours. I took the MBTA in the rest of the week. The first day, I had inventory and wanted as much security as possible. I had family with me - just in case.
There is a new Convention Center on Stewart Street [?] - next to a huge new upper class hotel - its a short walk from the South Station Railway station - 15 minute ride from Logan airport - although I have never been inside the new Convention Center - its absolutely huge. Its located on the main road inbetween Boston and South Boston.
Its near the waterfront which has been completely renovated - and well worth looking into. The area is completely safe. There has been a lot of positive things happening in that waterfront area.
Re: Spring ANA
Might I suggest either Fort Myers Florida or its suburb, Naples to the south ? This area has a number of fine larger hotels and convention centers - well worth the time to look into this. The weather is absolutely beautiful that time of year.
Naples is 1/2 hour south of Ft. Myers - by car. Ft Myers has a large airport and connects with many cities on direct flights. Sarasota is also an option - but its over an hour drive from SW Fla. International Airport { RSW } in Ft Myers.
Just my 2c
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
<< <i>If Boston is chosen, please do not use the Hines Convention Center....There is a new Convention Center on Stewart Street [?] - next to a huge new upper class hotel - its a short walk from the South Station Railway station - 15 minute ride from Logan airport - although I have never been inside the new Convention Center - its absolutely huge. Its located on the main road inbetween Boston and South Boston. >>
I believe we have looked into both facilities... I don't know which one is being considered for a possible World's Fair of Money. We may be in a situation where the new facility thinks we are too small, but I will let you know once I see what the options we have looked into are.
<< <i>Might I suggest either Fort Myers Florida or its suburb, Naples to the south ? >>
The two facilities I've found in Fort Myers (Harborside Event Center and Lee Civic Center) are both well under 100,000 sq ft.. way too small for ANA.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>When talking about Detroit is it actually Novi that you are considering? If so, I think it might susprise a lot of people and it could be a great show.................If not Novi, where in Detroit are you thinking? >>
While it looks like that facility may -- just barely -- meet the space requirements, the hotel at the site has only 124 rooms, which is not nearly enough.
Looking at sites in the Detroit metro, the only facility which would need our needs is likely the COBO Center in Detroit.
Greg >>
I am from Detroit, and could stay in my Ma's house for free, but I don't want to go to Detroit for an ANA convention.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I appreciate the fact that Greg is looking at this so carefully. As a former employee of the ANA, I was once told by another former employee that the reason why the ANA did not return to Philadelphia after the 1969 Convention until 2000 was that the Convention Coordinator thought that the cab ride in from the airport was too ugly.
I love the marketplace across the street from the convention center in the old train station. Of course, I never had to pay the extortionary labor fees out of my pocket.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
One of the things that I have liked about the ANA conventions is the opportunity to visit different cities. I have been to every ( 45 ) summer ANA convention since 1970. This has given me the chance to visit all of the lower 48 states because many times I have made a road trip out of the convention. In 1990 we drove 8544 miles through 14 states to go to the convention in Seattle. I do not believe that I would have seen as much of this country as I have if it were not for going to the ANA conventions. I really liked the 2012 convention in Philadelphia and would like to go back there now that the union issues have been fixed. I liked Boston in 2010 but the convention center is old and way too small. Salt Lake City is very nice but I wonder if the attendance would be low. Let's not go anywhere in Texas ( I think the 1978 convention in Houston was the hottest that I have attended ) in the summer. New Orleans ( The 1981 was the second hottest ), no way no how. Chicago, please not again. Milwaukee would be ok ,but I am not excited about it. Some of my favorite ANA conventions have been ( 1985, 1993, 2003 and 2008 ) in Baltimore. The Inner Harbor in Baltimore is a super nice place to go to relax after a day on the bourse floor. The 2019 convention will be my 50th and it will also be where I will receive my 50 year ANA medal. I would very much like to take my family there again. I vote for Baltimore for 2019!!!!
<< <i>Milwaukee? With a 5.6% sales tax that applies to coin sales, with no maximum?
Sort of kills the show, doesn't it?
Why would ANA even consider any location where there is a significant sales tax on coins with no limitation? Bad idea. >>
And this is likely why it won't be in Milwaukee...
Having said that, the number of locations possible for the ANA conventions is quite small if you exclude all taxable locales.
Greg >>
All the more reason to consider Pittsburgh. And the last ANA there was well-received. And we had a nice forum member dinner.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>As a former employee of the ANA, I was once told by another former employee that the reason why the ANA did not return to Philadelphia after the 1969 Convention until 2000 was that the Convention Coordinator thought that the cab ride in from the airport was too ugly. >>
And it still is ugly. But you can go on the train now, and it is only $7 to downtown.
Nuf with the Seattle bunk. We get you would like it. They don't want us. If you can talk sense into them, great. Otherwise enough. If you talk sense into them have them call Greg.
3 cheers for Greg coming here and sticking it out for 5 pages... keep up the great work!
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
This is a serious suggestion for the WFoM: the Atlantic City Convention Center (in NJ). I don't know if the Atlantic City International Airport is sufficient, but it has all the other qualifications: contiguous space, lodging, eateries, and of course the Jersey Shore and all that it has to offer.
Collectors who have to negotiate with their families between coin time and family vacation time can now do both.
Comments
<< <i>The Seattle Convention Center considers the ANA show too small >>
Every week the Washington State Convention Center hosts multiple events much smaller than ANA. The 1990 ANA convention was in Seattle at this venue, it was a great show.
I'd just like one major show within driving range per decade.
I applaud the addition of Virginia Beach. I hope that it gets some consideration!
As for your comment about South Carolina lacking convention space, there are actually 2 buildings in Greenville, SC that may be worth considering.
Bon Secours Wellness Arena (formerly Bi-lo Center) and the TD Convention Center. Both have well over 200,000 feet of convention space. Unfortunately most airlines, save for Southwest don't frequent Greenvile with larger planes, but I think that it's likely comparable to Austin, Texas with a well-established collector base.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If the ANA cared about taxes on coin and bullion they would take a FIRM stance and hold the conventions in states that have no sales tax on the coins and bullion.
That way other states may follow in order to benifit local businesses and collect taxes on the added revenue gained from coin conventions.
Who's side is the ANA on? >>
Bingo!
No sales tax for coins and bullion in South Dakota.........for what it's worth. >>
Yes.
And from what I hear, Sturgis, SD is able to host a large convention. >>
I was in Sturgis early last August and if you don't count spaces under large temporary tents there isn't anything suitable in the area.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>
<< <i>We should NEVER hold an ANA in any state that has any taxation on coins. Use the little bit of clout we have. >>
Let me show you where that leaves us... would people really be happy with that short of a list?
Arizona - Phoenix (But not a desirable location for a summer convention and not considered a good convention city)
Colorado - Denver
Georgia - Atlanta
Illinois - Rosemont
Louisiana - New Orleans
Michigan - Detroit
Missouri - St. Louis, Kansas City
Oregon - Portland
Pennsylvania - Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
Texas - Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, San Antonio
Utah - Salt Lake City
Other states eliminated:
Alaska - No suitable locations
California - Tax nexus
Connecticut - No suitable locations
Delaware - No suitable locations
Florida - Sales tax on foreign coins and bullion
Idaho - No suitable locations
Iowa - No suitable locations
Maryland - Tax over $1000
Massachusetts - Tax over $1000
Montana - No suitable locations
New Hampshire - No suitable locations
New York - Tax over $1000
North Dakota - No suitable locations
Rhode Island - No suitable locations
South Carolina - No suitable locations
South Dakota - No suitable locations
Washington - Seattle considers us too small
Wyoming - No suitable locations
Greg >>
Loop the 11 states listed as weather permits and hope the list grows over time.
<< <i>To address the various questions / suggestions...
<< <i> I understand Philadelphia won't get a show again because of the hassle and expense related to "union rules". >>
Philadelphia will be hosting the 2018 World's Fair of Money. As indicated, the union situation in Philadelphia is much improved than in past years.
<< <i>What I can't understand is why isn't Pittsburgh on the list?? >>
Probably because of Philadelphia in 2018.
<< <i>Seattle should win based on Slammer's picture alone >>
The Seattle Convention Center considers the ANA show too small and will not bid for the convention.
Greg >>
Try the Meydenbauer Convention Center in Bellevue.
I feel like the ANA doesn't care about those of us in Washington State and I have dropped my membership as I didn't feel like it was worth having. Between the lack of the love and the legal issues that were ongoing, I chose not to keep paying.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>... Don't Massachusetts and Washington (state) have tax issues as well? >>
If I recall, the ANA show in Boston a few years ago happened to coincide, at least partially, with a back-to-school sales tax holiday. >>
Washington State has NO tax issue...there is no sales tax on coins/bullion of any amount.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Seattle should win based on Slammer's picture alone >>
The Seattle Convention Center considers the ANA show too small and will not bid for the convention.
Greg >>
BTW....there have been smaller shows there...and there are other areas. If one only focused on the Washington State Convention Center in Seattle, then I have been to shows smaller.
Possibly some other reason there is an issue other than just "they will not bid because it is too small". Might be the reason you are getting or might just be a copout. Sounds like BS based on what I have seen there.........
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>And from what I hear, Sturgis, SD is able to host a large convention. >>
I was in Sturgis early last August and if you don't count spaces under large temporary tents there isn't anything suitable in the area. >>
I never said it was suitable.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Hey Greg, I mentioned it before - the TD Convention Center in Greenville, SC has a 230,000 square foot exhibit hall along with over 60,000 square feet of meeting rooms and it's less than 10 minutes from the Greenville-Spartanburg airport. (We do have the SCNA show there every October - granted, it's only 125 tables but we certainly do rattle around like two peas in a pod).
Yes, I know - the "big jets" don't fly to Greenville but all the airlines do have flights there, parking is free at the Center, and hotel rates are quite reasonable.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
<< <i>
<< <i>We should NEVER hold an ANA in any state that has any taxation on coins. Use the little bit of clout we have. >>
Let me show you where that leaves us... would people really be happy with that short of a list?
Arizona - Phoenix (But not a desirable location for a summer convention and not considered a good convention city)
Colorado - Denver
Georgia - Atlanta
Illinois - Rosemont
Louisiana - New Orleans
Michigan - Detroit
Missouri - St. Louis, Kansas City
Oregon - Portland
Pennsylvania - Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
Texas - Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, San Antonio
Utah - Salt Lake City
Other states eliminated:
Alaska - No suitable locations
California - Tax nexus
Connecticut - No suitable locations
Delaware - No suitable locations
Florida - Sales tax on foreign coins and bullion
Idaho - No suitable locations
Iowa - No suitable locations
Maryland - Tax over $1000
Massachusetts - Tax over $1000
Montana - No suitable locations
New Hampshire - No suitable locations
New York - Tax over $1000
North Dakota - No suitable locations
Rhode Island - No suitable locations
South Carolina - No suitable locations
South Dakota - No suitable locations
Washington - Seattle considers us too small
Wyoming - No suitable locations
Greg >>
Hey GregL -- Kudos to you for coming on this forum and engaging with the membership and other interested parties.
The ANA board members need to do more of this. You are helping to de-mystify the process of choosing the ANA convention sites. There is a lot more to it than most of us (including me) thought there was.
It is much easier not to engage; thanks for not taking the easy way.
<< <i>South Carolina - No suitable locations
Hey Greg, I mentioned it before - the TD Convention Center in Greenville, SC has a 230,000 square foot exhibit hall along with over 60,000 square feet of meeting rooms and it's less than 10 minutes from the Greenville-Spartanburg airport. (We do have the SCNA show there every October - granted, it's only 125 tables but we certainly do rattle around like two peas in a pod).
Yes, I know - the "big jets" don't fly to Greenville but all the airlines do have flights there, parking is free at the Center, and hotel rates are quite reasonable. >>
<< <i>South Carolina - No suitable locations
Greg >> >>
heh.
Suitable facilities can be easily searched, along with all of the other aspects of hosting a convention. The board may consider contacting SMG as they manage many, many convention centers throughout the US, and get some valuable guidance.
IMHO, the board should seek out a limited number of facilities in places like Phillie or Orlando in the East, Chicago or Dallas in the center off the country, and Anaheim or Denver in the West, and simply rotate the conventions among them. The sites need to be population centers within a reasonable drive of 20+ million people, have mainline air service (preferably a hub), and be destinations that have a draw beyond the coin show. Even cities such as St Louis somewhat qualify. Dealers should be less concerned about how spiffy a facility is, or how many times we've been there (enough with the "we were just there" mentality), than whether or not real business is going to be done given the insane bourse fees the ANA levies on dealers.
and being a dealer from South Carolina, I agree with John that the TD Center would accommodate a show this size. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of hotels within walking distance and flights as discussed, 90% or more would be regional carriers into Greenville/Spartanburg although the airport is less than a mile from the TD Center.
However, I do agree that the ANA should strongly consider the states with tax exemptions even with the "short" list. It allows the collector/dealer community to push for the tax exemption in it's home state and use shows/conventions going to state's with the exemption as a tool to consider the exemption for the state's that currently do not have one.
Each state needs as much leverage as it can get and while ITCA does a HUGE service in this area I believe the ANA could "step up" in (a small) way such as this to also make a statement.
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
<< <i>Every week the Washington State Convention Center hosts multiple events much smaller than ANA. The 1990 ANA convention was in Seattle at this venue, it was a great show. >>
Those events likely have significant food & beverage purchases, which the ANA convention does not. Food & beverage is a much higher profit margin area than the simple rental of the convention hall.
We have repeatedly requested bids from the WSCC and they have repeatedly rejected offering to make a bid.
Greg
<< <i>Try the Meydenbauer Convention Center in Bellevue.
I feel like the ANA doesn't care about those of us in Washington State and I have dropped my membership as I didn't feel like it was worth having. >>
That facility has only 54,000 sq ft of exhibit space - 1/4 of what the ANA needs. Additionally, I don't think there are enough hotels within walking distance.
Unfortunately, the ANA cannot force convention centers to bid on our conventions. If you are going to hold that against the ANA, I'm not sure what I can offer you.
Greg
<< <i> I agree with John that the TD Center would accommodate a show this size. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of hotels within walking distance and flights as discussed, 90% or more would be regional carriers into Greenville/Spartanburg although the airport is less than a mile from the TD Center. >>
And unfortunately, those two items are probably dealbreakers from a security standpoint. Dealers are not going to want to valet check their inventory on a regional jet... and are not going to want to walk / take a taxi significant distances to a hotel each day.
Greg
Having an auction in a state, with no state tax, would save buyers a bunch of $$$$$$$.
Example a coin won and paid for and picked up at the show would not be subject to taxes.
Therefore a $10,000,000.00 auction sale ( tax rate of 6%) would save the buyers $600,000.00 that money could be used to buy from the dealers on the floor.
Did I explain this right??
Greg
and I agree....and again thank you for taking the time to "enlighten" the masses.
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
<< <i>We have repeatedly requested bids from the WSCC and they have repeatedly rejected offering to make a bid. >>
<< <i>Those events likely have significant food & beverage purchases, which the ANA convention does not. Food & beverage is a much higher profit margin area than the simple rental of the convention hall. >>
The ANA summer convention was held at the WSCC in 1990 and could happen again, if the ANA wanted to include the numismatic community of the Pacific Northwest in their summer convention rotation. Downtown Seattle has exploded in growth since 1990 with companies such as Amazon locating in the city core, and hotels, restaurants, and other attractions are much larger in number.
Hopefully, there will be significant lobbying effort at Portland in two weeks to bring the summer ANA back to Seattle. The WSCC regularly holds events both larger and smaller than the ANA, and could easily host another ANA convention. The ANA should make the collecting membership as important as the dealers when considering locations. It is the collectors that allow the ANA to exist, isn't it?
<< <i>
<< <i>I vote San fran but I don't really care. Just not Rosemount again >>
Hang in there, just a few more months until the Chicago experiment is behind us. Kudos to the Chicago Coin Club for a herculean effort over many years. >>
Amen!
<< <i>The ANA summer convention was held at the WSCC in 1990 and could happen again, if the ANA wanted to include the numismatic community of the Pacific Northwest in their summer convention rotation. Downtown Seattle has exploded in growth since 1990 with companies such as Amazon locating in the city core, and hotels, restaurants, and other attractions are much larger in number. >>
Very true. The ANA has repeatedly looked to hold it's summer convention in Seattle... however, the WSCC refuses to respond to our request for proposal as they do not consider our show large enough / profitable enough to host.
<< <i>The WSCC regularly holds events both larger and smaller than the ANA, and could easily host another ANA convention. >>
Yes, they could.. but they choose not to bid. It is likely because we are considered a mid-size convention but do not generate the number of hotel nights or food & beverage expense at the convention center for them to be interested.
This is not the ANA's decision... it is WSCC making the decision not to bid on our requests.
Greg
<< <i>Why have we not been back to St. Louis since 1979? >>
Two reasons:
1) The union situation at America's Center is (at least was) one of the worst in the country. I need to find out if it has improved or not. I would make Philadelphia of several years ago look like a decent venue.
2) There is a false perception that downtown St. Louis is a dead area. Sure, that was true 20 years ago but it is far different today.
I've raised the possibility of St. Louis on occasion but there are certain current governors who run screaming when they hear it mentioned.
Greg
For the record, I think the current posted lineup is really good and varied and gets us out of the Rosemont grind, and all places I would consider travelling to:
National Money Show
2015
Mar. 5-7 Oregon Convention Center Portland, Oregon COMMENT: A really nice venue
2016
Mar. 3-5 Dallas Convention Center Dallas, Texas
2017
Mar. 9-11 Orlando, FL
...................................................
World's Fair of Money
2015
Aug. 11-15, Donald E. Stephens Convention Center, Rosemont, Illinois
2016
Aug. 9-13, Anaheim Convention Center, Anaheim, Calif. COMMENT: Folks, this is NOT downtown LA. This is an excellent venue!
2017
Aug. 1-5 Denver, CO COMMENT: Hopefully they have the airport rail system done by then.
2018
Aug. Philadelphia, PA Comment: YEAH! Can't wait to OD on food at the Reading Market
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
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<< <i>I just had another though!!!!
Having an auction in a state, with no state tax, would save buyers a bunch of $$$$$$$.
Example a coin won and paid for and picked up at the show would not be subject to taxes.
Therefore a $10,000,000.00 auction sale ( tax rate of 6%) would save the buyers $600,000.00 that money could be used to buy from the dealers on the floor.
Did I explain this right?? >>
Unless you live in CA or NY where the auction firm has to charge you tax anyways.
32d,32s,34d,35d,36d,37,37d,37s,38,38s,39s.
<< <i>How bout Maine at the Brunswick Navy base site now open to the public. >>
1) No mainline airplane service into the area.
2) Lack of adequate hotels.
Greg
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Just curious, how many hotels rooms nearby does the ANA try and have available for the show?
1) An exhibit hall with at least 200,000 sq ft of contiguous space, along with separate meeting facilities in the same location. (Having this split among different halls, floors, etc. is NOT an option.)
2) Upscale hotels which are located attached to, or within reasonable walking distance, of the convention center.
3) Direct non-regional jet air service to most major cities across the country. (Regional jets require dealers to valet check their inventory, which is a no-go.)
4) A location which does not charge state or city sales tax.
Greg
<< <i>When talking about Detroit is it actually Novi that you are considering? If so, I think it might susprise a lot of people and it could be a great show.................If not Novi, where in Detroit are you thinking? >>
While it looks like that facility may -- just barely -- meet the space requirements, the hotel at the site has only 124 rooms, which is not nearly enough.
Looking at sites in the Detroit metro, the only facility which would need our needs is likely the COBO Center in Detroit.
Greg
I would hope an ANA Show could draw in many more people.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
<< <i>
<< <i>How bout Maine at the Brunswick Navy base site now open to the public. >>
1) No mainline airplane service into the area.
2) Lack of adequate hotels.
Greg >>
Not disputing any of that just don't know all the specifics.
The last time I went through there they did have a brand new hotel right off the runway and the parkwood inn close by.
But I haven't been through there in a while but I do remember that it looked like a ghost town since they closed the base
and have been trying to attract new buisneses and such since the closure.
Bowdin colledge right up (1/2-3/4 mi) up the street must have a convention hall in the off season available
32d,32s,34d,35d,36d,37,37d,37s,38,38s,39s.
<< <i>Not disputing any of that just don't know all the specifics. >>
The biggest problem is lack of non-regional jet air service. The city with the closest major airport is Boston, which is a 2 hour drive away.
Greg
<< <i>Greg-
Just curious, how many hotels rooms nearby does the ANA try and have available for the show? >>
The ANA wants 175 rooms available for the National Money Show and 650 rooms for the World's Fair of Money.
This does NOT count rooms for dealers and attendees who do not book through the ANA hotel block. As a result, the actual number of rooms needed nearby is higher.
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>Greg-
Just curious, how many hotels rooms nearby does the ANA try and have available for the show? >>
The ANA wants 175 rooms available for the National Money Show and 650 rooms for the World's Fair of Money.
This does NOT count rooms for dealers and attendees who do not book through the ANA hotel block. As a result, the actual number of rooms needed nearby is higher.
Greg >>
Wow that's alot of rooms.
Portland Me, jetport probably cant handle it either dunno.
32d,32s,34d,35d,36d,37,37d,37s,38,38s,39s.
RE: Summer ANA....
If Boston is chosen, please do not use the Hines Convention Center. A few years back, the convention bourse
was split in 2/3 & 1/3 ... it was as if the smaller side was in the boon docks - the Ship of Gold and the Exhibit
areas and the lunch carts were there - and less than 100 dealers. Parking at the Prudential Center was $75
for 6 hours. I took the MBTA in the rest of the week. The first day, I had inventory and wanted as much security
as possible. I had family with me - just in case.
There is a new Convention Center on Stewart Street [?] - next to a huge new upper class hotel - its a short walk
from the South Station Railway station - 15 minute ride from Logan airport - although I have never been inside
the new Convention Center - its absolutely huge. Its located on the main road inbetween Boston and South Boston.
Its near the waterfront which has been completely renovated - and well worth looking into. The area is completely safe.
There has been a lot of positive things happening in that waterfront area.
Re: Spring ANA
Might I suggest either Fort Myers Florida or its suburb, Naples to the south ?
This area has a number of fine larger hotels and convention centers - well worth
the time to look into this. The weather is absolutely beautiful that time of year.
Naples is 1/2 hour south of Ft. Myers - by car. Ft Myers has a large airport and
connects with many cities on direct flights. Sarasota is also an option - but its
over an hour drive from SW Fla. International Airport { RSW } in Ft Myers.
Just my 2c
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>If Boston is chosen, please do not use the Hines Convention Center....There is a new Convention Center on Stewart Street [?] - next to a huge new upper class hotel - its a short walk
from the South Station Railway station - 15 minute ride from Logan airport - although I have never been inside the new Convention Center - its absolutely huge. Its located on the main road inbetween Boston and South Boston. >>
I believe we have looked into both facilities... I don't know which one is being considered for a possible World's Fair of Money. We may be in a situation where the new facility thinks we are too small, but I will let you know once I see what the options we have looked into are.
<< <i>Might I suggest either Fort Myers Florida or its suburb, Naples to the south ? >>
The two facilities I've found in Fort Myers (Harborside Event Center and Lee Civic Center) are both well under 100,000 sq ft.. way too small for ANA.
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>When talking about Detroit is it actually Novi that you are considering? If so, I think it might susprise a lot of people and it could be a great show.................If not Novi, where in Detroit are you thinking? >>
While it looks like that facility may -- just barely -- meet the space requirements, the hotel at the site has only 124 rooms, which is not nearly enough.
Looking at sites in the Detroit metro, the only facility which would need our needs is likely the COBO Center in Detroit.
Greg >>
I am from Detroit, and could stay in my Ma's house for free, but I don't want to go to Detroit for an ANA convention.
I love the marketplace across the street from the convention center in the old train station. Of course, I never had to pay the extortionary labor fees out of my pocket.
I really liked the 2012 convention in Philadelphia and would like to go back there now that the union issues have been fixed. I liked Boston in 2010 but the convention center is old and way too small. Salt Lake City is very nice but I wonder if the attendance would be low. Let's not go anywhere in Texas ( I think the 1978 convention in Houston was the hottest that I have attended ) in the summer. New Orleans ( The 1981 was the second hottest ), no way no how. Chicago, please not again. Milwaukee would be ok ,but I am not excited about it. Some of my favorite ANA conventions have been ( 1985, 1993, 2003 and 2008 ) in Baltimore. The Inner Harbor in Baltimore is a super nice place to go to relax after a day on the bourse floor.
The 2019 convention will be my 50th and it will also be where I will receive my 50 year ANA medal. I would very much like to take my family there again. I vote for Baltimore for 2019!!!!
<< <i>
I'm in!
Too much competition that time of year?
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Thank you for addressing this thread patiently and professionally every time it comes up.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
<< <i>Milwaukee? With a 5.6% sales tax that applies to coin sales, with no maximum?
Sort of kills the show, doesn't it?
Why would ANA even consider any location where there is a significant sales tax on coins with no limitation? Bad idea. >>
And this is likely why it won't be in Milwaukee...
Having said that, the number of locations possible for the ANA conventions is quite small if you exclude all taxable locales.
Greg >>
All the more reason to consider Pittsburgh. And the last ANA there was well-received. And we had a nice forum member dinner.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>As a former employee of the ANA, I was once told by another former employee that the reason why the ANA did not return to Philadelphia after the 1969 Convention until 2000 was that the Convention Coordinator thought that the cab ride in from the airport was too ugly. >>
And it still is ugly. But you can go on the train now, and it is only $7 to downtown.
3 cheers for Greg coming here and sticking it out for 5 pages... keep up the great work!
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Collectors who have to negotiate with their families between coin time and family vacation time can now do both.
ACC
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