EDITED: Issue has been satisfactorily resolved
nankraut
Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭
This hasn't ever happened to me before:
Tonight, I was high bidder on this auction (EBAY #121571683830) for $1382.00. So, I immediately sent payment via PAYPAL, and received acknowledgement of my payment, with an estimated shipping date of Feb 23. About an hour later, EBAY sent me an email advising that the seller had refunded my payment because he was "out of stock". WTF?? No communication from the seller.
I guess an auction isn't necessarily a real auction if the seller decides to change his mind and renege after the lot closes?
Update: Happy ending here folks. Thanks for all the helpful comments by fellow forum members.
Tonight, I was high bidder on this auction (EBAY #121571683830) for $1382.00. So, I immediately sent payment via PAYPAL, and received acknowledgement of my payment, with an estimated shipping date of Feb 23. About an hour later, EBAY sent me an email advising that the seller had refunded my payment because he was "out of stock". WTF?? No communication from the seller.
I guess an auction isn't necessarily a real auction if the seller decides to change his mind and renege after the lot closes?
Update: Happy ending here folks. Thanks for all the helpful comments by fellow forum members.
I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
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Comments
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
Oh well. (sigh)
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Perhaps jt thought he had 8 1856-S $3 Gold Indians PCGS XF45 when he sold 7 of them, but really only had 7 in stock.
Or maybe he decided not to lose $1500 on the deal when he canceled the sale. I guess you'll never really know for sure.
He does get a defect on his account, but with only 58 sales the defect will keep him being a Top Rated: Seller with Highest Buyer Ratings
He's probably searching is vast inventory and will relist it with a $3000 BIN soon.
But you can still leave him a negative with low DSR ratings and maybe he'll learn to get his inventory under control.
He started it low and let it ride. That was his mistake, not yours.
Looks like he doesn't honor his actions. The PCGS price guide is $1800. I didn't bother to look up comparables, but it is likely he didn't like the ending price and, as mentioned, was either contacted and sold it outside of ebay after the auction ended, or didn't want to sell it for what it went for and is declining based on that.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
It may be worthwhile to contact the seller and give them an opportunity to make it right or get the neg feedback that was earned.
Very frustrating when you invest the time and energy to have this outcome. Hope it works out for you.
<< <i>contact the seller and give them an opportunity to make it right or get the neg feedback that was earned. >>
That is the last thing you want to do.
It's considered feedback extortion and is one of the few rules eBay actually enforces.
<< <i>He does get a defect on his account >>
not without reporting him to ebay. He does however have to pay FVF fee on the sale unless you agree to a request to cancel the sale.
since you got quick refund, does not deserve a neg.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>not without reporting him to ebay. >>
eBay already knows there was a refund, and the seller gets a defect for doing that. You can read how it works here:
As of August 20, 2014, the transaction "defect rate" has replaced four individual detailed seller rating requirements in evaluating seller performance. This new rating may impact your status.
The following transaction-related defects affect your defect rate and seller status:
• Detailed seller rating of 1, 2 or 3 for item as described
• Detailed seller rating of 1 for shipping time
• Negative or neutral feedback
• Return initiated for a reason that indicates the item was not as described
• eBay Money Back Guarantee (previously known as eBay Buyer Protection) or PayPal Purchase Protection case opened for an item not received or an item not as described
• Seller-cancelled transactions
• Starting with the August 20 evaluation, to meet eBay's minimum standard, sellers can have up to a maximum 5% of transactions with one or more transaction defects over the most recent evaluation period. A maximum 2% will allow a seller to qualify as an eBay Top Rated Seller. Only transactions with US buyers count.
• Transactions with international buyers count toward your global performance rating. For global sales, sellers will need to maintain a defect rate of 5% or lower to meet minimum global seller performance standards, and a defect rate of 2% or lower to meet global Top Rated Seller standards.
<< <i>
<< <i>not without reporting him to ebay. >>
eBay already knows there was a refund, and the seller gets a defect for doing that. You can read how it works here:
As of August 20, 2014, the transaction "defect rate" has replaced four individual detailed seller rating requirements in evaluating seller performance. This new rating may impact your status.
The following transaction-related defects affect your defect rate and seller status:
• Detailed seller rating of 1, 2 or 3 for item as described
• Detailed seller rating of 1 for shipping time
• Negative or neutral feedback
• Return initiated for a reason that indicates the item was not as described
• eBay Money Back Guarantee (previously known as eBay Buyer Protection) or PayPal Purchase Protection case opened for an item not received or an item not as described
• Seller-cancelled transactions
• Starting with the August 20 evaluation, to meet eBay's minimum standard, sellers can have up to a maximum 5% of transactions with one or more transaction defects over the most recent evaluation period. A maximum 2% will allow a seller to qualify as an eBay Top Rated Seller. Only transactions with US buyers count.
• Transactions with international buyers count toward your global performance rating. For global sales, sellers will need to maintain a defect rate of 5% or lower to meet minimum global seller performance standards, and a defect rate of 2% or lower to meet global Top Rated Seller standards. >>
Correct...
derryb post IS INCORRECT.
I know from personal experience, after I had to refund an auction because some s.o.b. stole the package our of my mailbox. (seller cancelled transaction)
The only time I got a big bargain on eBay happened many years ago. I put a cover bid on an 1849 gold dollar in PCGS MS-64 of $1,200. At the time the coin was on the Gray Sheet at $1,800. I ended up with the piece.
Of course today the coin is only bid at $1,300.
<< <i>eBay already knows there was a refund, and the seller gets a defect for doing that. You can read how it works here:
As of August 20, 2014, the transaction "defect rate" has replaced four individual detailed seller rating requirements in evaluating seller performance. This new rating may impact your status.
The following transaction-related defects affect your defect rate and seller status:
• Detailed seller rating of 1, 2 or 3 for item as described
• Detailed seller rating of 1 for shipping time
• Negative or neutral feedback
• Return initiated for a reason that indicates the item was not as described
• eBay Money Back Guarantee (previously known as eBay Buyer Protection) or PayPal Purchase Protection case opened for an item not received or an item not as described
• Seller-cancelled transactions
• Starting with the August 20 evaluation, to meet eBay's minimum standard, sellers can have up to a maximum 5% of transactions with one or more transaction defects over the most recent evaluation period. A maximum 2% will allow a seller to qualify as an eBay Top Rated Seller. Only transactions with US buyers count.
• Transactions with international buyers count toward your global performance rating. For global sales, sellers will need to maintain a defect rate of 5% or lower to meet minimum global seller performance standards, and a defect rate of 2% or lower to meet global Top Rated Seller standards. >>
Review your defect list; "refund" does not appear in it. Just giving a refund does not trigger a seller defect. It has to be because of one of the reasons in the list. For example, if buyer requests or agrees to cancel the transaction, the subsequent refund would not trigger a seller defect.
<< <i> derryb post IS INCORRECT. I know from personal experience, after I had to refund an auction because some s.o.b. stole the package our of my mailbox. (seller cancelled transaction) >>
A refund does not trigger a defect. Certain reasons for a refund will trigger a defect.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Good morning JTCoinAuctions,
I'm confused. How could you be "out of stock' on this coin? I'm a private collector of $3 Gold Indians, and am very disappointed that I was the successful high bidder on this auction. I transmitted full payment within 10 minutes of auction close. I even contacted you 3 days ago to verify that it was encapsulated by PCGS instead of NGC, since there was a discrepancy on your original listing, which you subsequently corrected.
I've reviewed your other items posted for auction, but now, I am hesitant to bid on any of your listings. I think it would be appropriate for you to at least contact me with an explanation of what went wrong here.
<< <i>That is nasty... and just another reason to stay away from ebay. Years ago (mid nineties) ebay was a neat venue and I purchased many items there.... now, I just stay away. Cheers, RickO >>
I disagree as there were numerous scam artists selling on eBay then with a lot less buyer protection then than now.
Note that seller did not scam buyer, only failed to honor the sale. He did refund the buyer. Might even have been due to an inventory problem.
Be interesting to see if seller eventually relists the coin to get a better price.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Item specifics
Certification: NGC Circulated/Uncirculated: Circulated
Certification Number: 2043628-012 Strike Type: Business
Grade: AU 55 Mint Location: San Francisco
Year: 1856 Composition: Gold
LET THE BEST MAN WIN!
On Feb-20-15 at 21:37:56 PST, seller added the following information:
Correction:
CERTIFICATION IS PCGS
GRADE XF40
CERTIFICATION NUMBER 7975.40/26817782
COIN IN PICTURE IS ACTUAL COIN WINNER WILL RECEIVE!!!!!!!
Location: Chenango Bridge, New York
This is north of Binghamton. It has been extremely cold!! Maybe he has been hitting the bottle too much? I have a friend like that. Needs to get to AA IMO.
<< <i>
<< <i>He does get a defect on his account >>
not without reporting him to ebay. He does however have to pay FVF fee on the sale unless you agree to a request to cancel the sale.
since you got quick refund, does not deserve a neg. >>
This is what's wrong with Ebay today. This is a negative transaction. And it clearly deserves a negative FB response. It's no surprise that even the cads on Ebay have FB ratings of >99.00%. So what if you got a refund. It's essentially a scam to offer an item you don't have or don't intend to deliver on. If it's an inventory tracking problem, then get a better system. Better yet, don't sell your stuff on Ebay if you don't plan to deliver or can't keep from making mistakes.
<< <i>Well, I guess I was really disappointed that they didn't even contact me with an explanation. So, I sent them this message; and I consider this the end of it:
Good morning JTCoinAuctions,
I'm confused. How could you be "out of stock' on this coin? I'm a private collector of $3 Gold Indians, and am very disappointed that I was the successful high bidder on this auction. I transmitted full payment within 10 minutes of auction close. I even contacted you 3 days ago to verify that it was encapsulated by PCGS instead of NGC, since there was a discrepancy on your original listing, which you subsequently corrected.
I've reviewed your other items posted for auction, but now, I am hesitant to bid on any of your listings. I think it would be appropriate for you to at least contact me with an explanation of what went wrong here. >>
If you try and bid on one of his other auctions, I suspect you will find that you have been blocked...
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, I guess I was really disappointed that they didn't even contact me with an explanation. So, I sent them this message; and I consider this the end of it:
Good morning JTCoinAuctions,
I'm confused. How could you be "out of stock' on this coin? I'm a private collector of $3 Gold Indians, and am very disappointed that I was the successful high bidder on this auction. I transmitted full payment within 10 minutes of auction close. I even contacted you 3 days ago to verify that it was encapsulated by PCGS instead of NGC, since there was a discrepancy on your original listing, which you subsequently corrected.
I've reviewed your other items posted for auction, but now, I am hesitant to bid on any of your listings. I think it would be appropriate for you to at least contact me with an explanation of what went wrong here. >>
If you try and bid on one of his other auctions, I suspect you will find that you have been blocked... >>
And if you are able to, don't pay.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
To risk getting a negative or a neutral which will damage their account makes no sense, even if he was losing $200 on real market value had he consummated the transaction by letting it go. That is going to cost him a lot more than the money saved. Plus bad karma, bad for business to play those games and not honor assumed contracts, and his mojo. At some point buyers will not be forgiving of defective sales practice and it erodes ebay with people getting more and more cynical.
Congrats on your new acquisition
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Something was amiss with the coin being listed as NGC but then PCGS with a PCGS picture.
Some times things happen.
I would not take a coin to a show that is in an auction with no reserve, because if it gets sold at the show and they get home after auction closes, how can anything good result?
<< <i>
<< <i>He does get a defect on his account >>
not without reporting him to ebay. He does however have to pay FVF fee on the sale unless you agree to a request to cancel the sale.
since you got quick refund, does not deserve a neg. >>
If I sell you a coin and fail to go through with the transaction, I would certainly deserve a neg. Sounds like he didn't get what he wanted for the coin so he made up some BS excuse like "I lost it" or "I accidentally sold it to someone else."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>As a casual seller on ebay,I have never subjected an item to prior sale. >>
I wouldn't bother to bid on an auction that is "subject to prior sale" which can also mean "if I don't like the closing bid I'll just claim I already sold it."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>A refund does not trigger a defect. Certain reasons for a refund will trigger a defect. >>
derryb. I never said that a refund would trigger a defect, but that this will: "seller cancelled transaction"
<< <i>
<< <i>A refund does not trigger a defect. Certain reasons for a refund will trigger a defect. >>
derryb. I never said that a refund would trigger a defect, but that this will: "seller cancelled transaction" >>
I said: Review your defect list; "refund" does not appear in it. Just giving a refund does not trigger a seller defect. It has to be because of one of the reasons in the list. For example, if buyer requests or agrees to cancel the transaction, the subsequent refund would not trigger a seller defect.
You said: derryb post IS INCORRECT. I know from personal experience, after I had to refund an auction because some s.o.b. stole the package our of my mailbox. (seller cancelled transaction) >>
I said: A refund does not trigger a defect. Certain reasons for a refund will trigger a defect.
Apologies if I misunderstood what you said.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>There was awhile when many dealers that do weekend shows would list their inventory on eBay as BINs, and take it with them to shows. >>
Still do
<< <i>I would not take a coin to a show that is in an auction with no reserve, because if it gets sold at the show and they get home after auction closes, how can anything good result? >>
Why should a dealer give up an opportunity to make a sale? Just because it's listed on another sales channel? With WiFi and 4G it's actually simple to take down the auction as soon as [or shortly after] the sale is made at the show. I have seen it done just that way many times.
'Subject to prior sale' - the car a dealer advertises in print or on TV or radio is always subject to prior sale. It's only when there are multiple exactly identical items that you're required to have enough on-hand.
Even the multi dealer portal collectors corner supports multiple channels. They ask dealers to mark which coins they're bringing to a show. Which has the added benefit of telling you you can see it in hand.
legally when you put merchandise on the belt at the supermarket you're not accepting the supermarkets offer to sell it to you at the shelf price. There is no offer, the shelt price is a notice of an offer they are likely to accept. Rather, you are making an offer to buy it at the shelf price and its only when you tender payment for the item that a contract is formed. Nuts, but that's the UCC.
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