Anyone buying MACge self-stickered inventory?

mercurydimeguy · February 16, 2015 9:44PM

Curious, the dealer who stickers his own coin has had the same exact coins for sale on eBay (and elsewhere) for 1+ years now, then stickers all of his own inventory, and then doubles the prices (in some instances, more than 2x).

Has anyone bought one of his $400 modern coins for $900-$1200 (just an example based on some of his coins in my watch list) and can you tell a difference?

Curious if these MACge coins are head and shoulders above their similarly graded non MACge counterparts (because his premiums are not 5%-10%, they are 200%-400%).

Thank you in advance if you have bought these MACge coins before and can share your feedback....

ricko · February 16, 2015 10:02PM

Based on your summary, I would not even consider/look at his offerings...Cheers, RickO

dbldie55 · February 16, 2015 10:30PM

According to their ads, the stickers add that much value. In a way it makes sense. If Full Steps are worth multiples of non Full step, shouldn't partial full steps be worth more than no steps?

Of course, Mr. ACG has some credibility issues in the hobby.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 16, 2015 10:38PM

It only has credibility if he posts/honors bids for "MAC" coins.

MACGE1 · February 18, 2015 8:12PM

<< Curious, the dealer who stickers his own coin has had the same exact coins for sale on eBay (and elsewhere) for 1+ years now, then stickers all of his own inventory, and then doubles the prices (in some instances, more than 2x).

Has anyone bought one of his $400 modern coins for $900-$1200 (just an example based on some of his coins in my watch list) and can you tell a difference?

Curious if these MACge coins are head and shoulders above their similarly graded non MACge counterparts (because his premiums are not 5%-10%, they are 200%-400%).

Thank you in advance if you have bought these MACge coins before and can share your feedback.... >>

Check completed sales on eBay.

MACGE1 · February 18, 2015 8:19PM

<< It only has credibility if he posts/honors bids for "MAC" coins. >>

We currently have a buy list of about 70 coins, sight unseen. This list will grow quickly as we do. For example we will pay $2,500 for a 1953-s 5c in ms-66 with our 4FS sticker. Anyone who would like to receive our buy list please send me a PM.

djdilliodon · February 18, 2015 10:10PM

Dropping a sticker on something graded a 70 and calling it PQ I just don't get. Another thing I don't get is how can you call a coin from the 1800's a first strike lol!?!?

MACGE1 · February 18, 2015 10:22PM

<< Dropping a sticker on something graded a 70 and calling it PQ I just don't get. Another thing I don't get is how can you call a coin from the 1800's a first strike lol!?!? >>

The term "first strike" means that the coin is from the first group of coins off the die. This can apply to any coin as these coins exhibit full details regardless of the year. The "first strike" used in modern coins just means that the mint shipped them within 30 days, irrespective of which coin is actually off the die first.

SteveCaruso · February 18, 2015 11:16PM

"First strike" is a U.S. Mint term. They keep those in their vaults (along with "last strikes") for reference -- mostly for bullion coins.

As such the term "first strike" has no place in grading, as those coins are never released to the public.

It's misleading.

SteveCaruso · February 18, 2015 11:38PM

This is a picture of a *genuine* "First Strike" as designated by the Mint:

Here's a link to the YouTube video from the Mint: Meet the Chief Assayer of the United States Mint

So to call anything other than these coins in their vaults as "First Strike" is -- by any reasonable opinion -- less than honest.

Broadstruck · February 18, 2015 11:47PM

I don't believe the coin collector community is gullible enough to embrace another sticker company...

Although I could be wrong

MACGE1 · February 19, 2015 4:21AM

<< "First strike" is a U.S. Mint term. They keep those in their vaults (along with "last strikes") for reference -- mostly for bullion coins.

As such the term "first strike" has no place in grading, as those coins are never released to the public.

It's misleading. >>

If that's the definition of "first strike", then why do you have a problem with this. Millions of coins have been graded by the various grading companies as "first strike". The coins that you are referring to will never be in the marketplace, so it's irrelevant that they are the "first strike"

Bochiman · February 19, 2015 8:55AM

So, "Macge1", what are your credentials behind this?

MACGE1 · February 19, 2015 9:55AM

<< So, "Macge1", what are your credentials behind this? >>

I have been collecting coins since I was 8. I've been trading for about 9 years now, and I'm currently a dealer on CCE, using the name Tradeworks. I will be running this company with the financial backing of Mike Rubin, who is has given me the means to make markets in MacGE product.

Broadstruck · February 19, 2015 10:36AM

<< 

<< So, "Macge1", what are your credentials behind this? >>

I have been collecting coins since I was 8. I've been trading for about 9 years now, and I'm currently a dealer on CCE, using the name Tradeworks. I will be running this company with the financial backing of Mike Rubin, who is has given me the means to make markets in MacGE product. >>

Seriously that's it... As I'm sure the folks who place stickers on Chiquita bananas have greater credentials

leothelyon · February 19, 2015 4:31PM

The 1953-S pictured on your site, did you sticker this coin?

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · February 19, 2015 4:52PM

Accugrade???

Erik

djdilliodon · February 19, 2015 6:10PM

If anyone has a 53 s Franklin in ms66 with 90% FBL send it to be mac'd and sell it to them for $5k. When you get your $5k let me know

.

mercurydimeguy · February 19, 2015 8:08PM

At first I thought it was Modern only MAC - Modern Approved Coin.

But it looks like they sticker all of their inventory (including patterns) and then 3x-10x the price.

Interesting...

Lakesammman · February 19, 2015 9:36PM

Learned something new this AM - thanks for the post.

Link to more information about MACge

commoncents05 · February 19, 2015 9:38PM

I've already peeled a few of the stickers off.

-Paul

earlycoins · February 19, 2015 9:53PM

<< Dropping a sticker on something graded a 70 and calling it PQ I just don't get. Another thing I don't get is how can you call a coin from the 1800's a first strike lol!?!? >>

This relates quite directly to Stacks forthcoming Pogue sale. Although there are several pretty, even what some may see as more than adequate coins, the collection is severely lacking.

Zero "First Strikes."

Zero "Early Releases."

Zero holder inserts signed by mint engravers or directors.

Zero holders delineated as released at important coin gatherings.

Zero holders signed by sports professionals.

Just a bunch of old coins.

Expect this sale to bring new lows for plain vanilla-holdered bust stuff. Gold labels have no impact on coin value,
as they're just marketing sizzle.

There is an upcoming expose in Coin World inclusive of interviews with Mr. Rittenhouse and Mr. Scot, in which they explain
how Stacks and Sothebys refused what they considered fair compensation for signings.

There will be a small number of pieces annotated with the new "Full Beak and Eye" nomenclature.

EC

DaveWcoins · February 19, 2015 10:06PM

<< Learned something new this AM - thanks for the post.

Link to more information about MACge >>

Me too. This morning I learned that Marshall Sheldon came up with the 70 point grading scale.

I always thought it was William Sheldon.

Mark · February 19, 2015 10:16PM

Dave:

I believe that it's a lesser known story that William Sheldon early on displayed his thieving tendencies by stealing the 70 point grading scale from his younger brother, Marshall.

Sonorandesertrat · February 19, 2015 10:19PM

Good grief.

Or should I write something like 'oink, oink'?
The stickers need more cowbell.

If this is really where the hobby is headed, I will get out in the near future.

Broadstruck · February 19, 2015 10:29PM

<< 

<< Learned something new this AM - thanks for the post.

Link to more information about MACge >>

Me too. This morning I learned that Marshall Sheldon came up with the 70 point grading scale.

I always thought it was William Sheldon. >>

70 really... I always thought Marshall only went to 11

DaveWcoins, Good catch as I almost spat my coffee on the screen

SteveCaruso · February 19, 2015 10:54PM

<< If that's the definition of "first strike", then why do you have a problem with this. >>

Do you see that envelope there? Do you see the actual information that's presented on it and recorded?

To call any coin "first strike" without that information is -- to any reasonable person -- misleading. You cannot know that it was one of the first coins off that set of dies, or even the first set of dies.

<< Millions of coins have been graded by the various grading companies as "first strike". >>

Yes, and NGC was sued over it for deceptive business practices and subsequently removed their "first strike" label, establishing a settlement education fund. PCGS was sued and settled, but continues to use "First Strike" as a trademark and part of their trade dress, effectively redefining words to meet arbitrary definitions.

<< The coins that you are referring to will never be in the marketplace, so it's irrelevant that they are the "first strike" >>

No, it *is* relevant as they *are* what any "first strike" is trying to be. Anything labeled "first strike" is posing. It's a marvelous "marketing lie" and a worthless designation.

The only reason one would want to label a coin "first strike" is to market it as "better" in contrast to another coin, even if the two coins are identical.

How can you defend this practice?

brg5658 · February 19, 2015 11:07PM

What I don't get is that if a guy like this can put up a website that actually functions, why can't Stacks?

As for the "MAC" sticker, looks like a waste of adhesive to me. And, what you apparently mean by "exceptional first strike" is "early die state" -- so "EXFS" on a sticker just looks completely odd. All the stickers in the world won't make a coin something it isn't.

Also, if you want some advice, instead of the money you're wasting on printing all of those stickers, why not invest in an actual camera and post decent pics of your wares, instead of scans?

MACGE1 · February 19, 2015 11:19PM

For anyone having difficulty understanding what a FDS looks like, take a look at this coin:

null

Now compare this 62 to the 63 on eBay, this is a FDS. All the details are there which means it came off the die before the die got worn out, hence FDS.

MACGE1 · February 19, 2015 11:20PM

I'm sorry about the link, just put into Ebay "1723 rosa" and you will find it.

BStrauss3 · February 19, 2015 11:33PM

<< What I don't get is that if a guy like this can put up a website that actually functions, why can't Stacks ... >>

because it's mostly static pages and because they are not getting one one-hundredth of the volume of page hits

Broadstruck · February 19, 2015 11:44PM

<< For anyone having difficulty understanding what a FDS looks like, take a look at this coin:

null

Now compare this 62 to the 63 on eBay, this is a FDS. All the details are there which means it came off the die before the die got worn out, hence FDS. >>

Explain to me why someone should pay $5,875.00 (or now discounted to $4,700.00) for your example with surface issues

When the same funds could yield someone the bath metal example posted below on the right.

Sonorandesertrat · February 19, 2015 11:54PM

Perhaps I should hold out for FNH (full nose hairs) when buying portrait coins.
How to take a hobby from the sublime to the ridiculous in a few easy steps....

Pfft!

SeattleSlammer · February 20, 2015 12:02AM

Welcome to the forum MACGE1 !
It's a jungle in here.

mercurydimeguy · February 20, 2015 12:06AM

I've watched the same exact coins on eBay over a period of time. Sometimes duplicates. Suddenly one was stickered the other not. The not stickered one was more $$. Then prices reversed. Then he second one was stickered and the-already 2x market value price went up to 5x market value on both.

There is another dealer who has a similar model I recall. List a $400 con for $7,800 and ask for best offers. Sell one every couple years for $3,000 and make a rediculous profit.

Might be a new dealer business model, who knows???

Cocoinut · February 20, 2015 12:15AM

No thanks.

Jim

bestmr · February 20, 2015 12:19AM

I've seen several of his Ike's and when I first saw the sticker along with the price, MAC became CRACK as that's what I think you'd have to be smoking to buy it for that price. Just my opinion of corse. He can charge whatever he feels like being a free market.

brg5658 · February 20, 2015 1:26AM

<< 

<< What I don't get is that if a guy like this can put up a website that actually functions, why can't Stacks ... >>

because it's mostly static pages and because they are not getting one one-hundredth of the volume of page hits >>

I love when people answer rhetorical questions. It's called a joke.

TopographicOceans · February 20, 2015 1:42AM

Stickers are soooo cool
Especially the ones in Happy Meals

Broadstruck · February 20, 2015 5:10AM

TopographicOceans, The big googly eyes Bunny sticker jiggling when you rotate the slab under a light source could be really cool!

PRECIOUSMENTAL · February 20, 2015 8:29AM

Is there not an product on the market already labeled as "FDS"?

koynekwest · February 20, 2015 8:30AM

Referring to the Buffalos in particular-"FT" is pretty meaningless IMO as there's other parts of the design that are MUCH more difficult to find fully struck up. Is there something wrong with a simple "FS" for Fully Struck-for all series?

Anyway-is this just ACG in disguise being resurrected? I sure hope not.

crazyhounddog · February 20, 2015 8:34AM

<< I don't believe the coin collector community is gullible enough to embrace another sticker company...

Although I could be wrong

>>

This made me laugh HARD!!!!!

Bochiman · February 20, 2015 8:48AM

<< 

<< 

<< What I don't get is that if a guy like this can put up a website that actually functions, why can't Stacks ... >>

because it's mostly static pages and because they are not getting one one-hundredth of the volume of page hits >>

I love when people answer rhetorical questions. It's called a joke.

>>

Seems calling it an actual joke is debatable if he went out of his way to explain

That said, the website doesn't actually function. Does not work well from a windows tablet using IE 11.
Misspellings on the site.
Etc.......

Sites like that seem a bit slick to me without the substance. Not saying this is like that, or not, just stating a generic.

Lakesammman · February 20, 2015 9:43AM

I'm thinking of putting together a 'not-quite-all-there" 90% SLQ set.

Good idea for another PCGS registry set - sort of like a premium "Everyman's" set.

messydesk · February 20, 2015 11:01AM

<< James uses PQ for modern coins....this would appear to equate them by using "PQ" the way it is used. I wouldn't be happy if I were James. I think James has more credibility and wouldn't want that tarnished by something that isn't quite the same. >>

James uses "QA[checkmark]", not "PQ"

Bochiman · February 20, 2015 11:13AM

Ah, right John...I had them mixed for some reason, in my head.
(lotsa jumbling room up there right now

)

MACGE1 · February 21, 2015 3:11AM

<< Referring to the Buffalos in particular-"FT" is pretty meaningless IMO as there's other parts of the design that are MUCH more difficult to find fully struck up. Is there something wrong with a simple "FS" for Fully Struck-for all series?

Anyway-is this just ACG in disguise being resurrected? I sure hope not. >>

Thanks for the comment. As to your point about FT, although harder to distinguish, the tail is the highest point on the coin followed by the horn. Therefore we are using the tail as the defining feature of a full strike.

As far as Alan Hager is concerned, he is not the owner of this company, I am. As I said earlier I will be doing all of the buying and selling of our product with the backing of Mike Rubin. Alan Hager is simply our grader. Regardless of what a lot of people may think of his credibility, honesty, or his ethics, no one can deny his immense knowledge in coins and grading. I know that a lot of people haven't had a pleasant experience with him to put it mildly, however I felt that if I wanted someone who has that level of knowledge, I had to hire him. Everyone else with that kind of expertise is either running or employed by the largest firms in the hobby. He is the only one on the sidelines despite him doing this his entire life.

mas3387 · February 21, 2015 4:12AM

wondercoin · February 21, 2015 4:39AM

For years, I would purchase 1953-S Franklins in PCGS-MS66 holders with near miss FBL for a song. The world class upgraders I competed against would simply tell me the coins would not make FBL so I was wasting my money. To this day, I have a nice pile of 95% ++FBL coins from all those years of purchases. If the 90% designation does take off, maybe a 95% designation would be next!

Wondercoin.

koynekwest · February 21, 2015 7:25AM

Just because the tail on a Buffalo nickel is one of the highest points of the design doesn't mean it wouldn't necessarily strike up. I've seen more than a few of this design with a split tail and noticeably incomplete detail on the Bison's head and shoulder. The causes of incomplete detailing are many. So, once again, I don't think the designation of a split tail has any real meaning at all. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of any of these simplistic terms when it comes to the amount of strike detail on any coin, and that would include full steps, head, bands, torch, bell lines or whatever when another part of the design is or can be weak (a prime example is a SLQ that may have a full head but 1/3 of the shield missing, although to qualify that for this series the FH designation on these has been around since at least the '40s.) I think all these terms are, to one degree or another just plain and simple hype.

I think a much more sensible and meaningful qualifier would be perhaps the percentage of a full strike-a simple 90% FS, FS90, 95% FS, FS100 or whatever.

Anyone buying MACge self-stickered inventory?

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