"3. Your coin is Pop 2 coin that is a Registry chasers dream. I think you sold it WAY to cheap!! Your little sticker had nothing to do with it. You probably left a lot of money on the table. If you would have done a no reserve auction I believe you would have realized a LOT more based on the PCGS MS67 grade and the Pop 2 figure. I bet the new owner peeled the sticker off the second they rec'd it!! But you'll never know if your sticker is worth one thin dime with only overpriced Buy it Now auctions. But in this case, you sold yourself short, or should I say you sold a Pop 2 PCGS coin short of its true value."
I respectfully disagree. A pretty darn good "comp" coin is probably the 1973-P Nickel in PCGS-MS67 that fetched about $644 at auction back in 2008. "Registry chasers" generally seek PCGS graded FS coins, not non-FS coins. On top of that, nickel prices have dropped sharply over the past few years and selling that 1975-P at a price of $520 seems fair all the way around. I would have no problem with the PCGS Price Guide pricing that coin at $500-$550 in the MS67 grade. IMHO, some of the "$200" or so prices on these pop 1 or pop 2 modern Jeffs in MS67 non FS steppers are simply conservative opening prices after the coins get slabbed for the first or second time. Personally, I think these type of coins (especially from the 1970's) should be closer to $500 retail in the Guide. I am sure it only helps an MS67 Jeff to be identified as a "4 stepper" as, in theory, such a coin could possibly get an MS67 grade with 1 or 2 steps.
By the way, I recently sold (for a customer) the only 1975-P Jefferson Nickel grading PCGS-MS67FS (pop 1 at the time). I offered the coin first on the Registry forum and suggested the coin was quite possibly undergraded at MS67FS in my offering/discussions with a couple board members. There were no takers and I then sent the coin to Heritage (at no reserve at the request of the customer) where it fetched about $2,000. The coin then promptly reappeared in another Heritage sale as the pop 1/0 PCGS-MS67+FS where it fetched about $2,800. I thought the buyer of the pop 1/0 MS67+FS got a real bargain at $2,800. I would be quite surprised if a coin was located in the next three to five years that graded higher than that pop 1/0 MS67+FS.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>If there is a market for these premium (but not designated) strikes, I would be very happy!
I have 7 1963-D nickels in MS64. I went through an original canvas bag of 4000 coins and sent the best ones hoping for FS designations (as a 64FS is a $1000 coin). However, I was 0-7. The nickels are 99% of the way to FS and I'm honestly shocked that ALL of them are not FS. Perhaps with a different Date/MM combination they would have been more generous.
Anyway, MACGE, please let me know if you'd be interested. What do you think these should be worth?
Here's an example:
>>
As to the value, a good place to start would be our price guide. I would suggest that you sign up with us as a dealer, send the coins into us, and if they get the designation we'll make you an offer.
These made up designations that are not part of TPG taxonomy are worthless to registry chasers because the 90% designation or 4FS is not recognized by TPGs. It's either FB and you get a bonus or its not FB.
<< <i>As to the value, a good place to start would be our price guide. I would suggest that you sign up with us as a dealer, send the coins into us, and if they get the designation we'll make you an offer. >>
I seem to recall another, earlier, TPGS, that used to have dealers send in a lot, grade them, and, I had heard, would trade costs for coins as some point....gave an incentive to grade coins low and get them cheap. That TPGS is no longer around even though the principal is.
Certainly hope that there are processes and rules in place to prevent any potential ethical violation, such as the one above, from happening.......
<< <i>As to the value, a good place to start would be our price guide. I would suggest that you sign up with us as a dealer, send the coins into us, and if they get the designation we'll make you an offer. >>
I seem to recall another, earlier, TPGS, that used to have dealers send in a lot, grade them, and, I had heard, would trade costs for coins as some point....gave an incentive to grade coins low and get them cheap. That TPGS is no longer around even though the principal is.
Certainly hope that there are processes and rules in place to prevent any potential ethical violation, such as the one above, from happening....... >>
Mac-GE is the company doing the grading and placing the stickers on the coins. MAC Exchange is the wholesale trading side, two different companies with two different sets of people running them.
Mac-GE is the company doing the grading and placing the stickers on the coins. MAC Exchange is the wholesale trading side, two different companies with two different sets of people running them.
Seems like a conflict of interest if there's any common ownership.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Mac-GE is the company doing the grading and placing the stickers on the coins. MAC Exchange is the wholesale trading side, two different companies with two different sets of people running them.
Seems like a conflict of interest if there's any common ownership. >>
I was just rereading this thread and noticed this glaring misunderstanding:
<< <i>Now Franklins can get a 90% FBL sticker. I've gotta wonder: is it really wise to quantify a detail so precisely? CAC, for example -- which is clearly the inspiration for this effort -- accepts coins in the middle and top-thirds for the grade. (And they don't do designations, as I understand.) >>
CAC absolutely DOES do designations! If a slab says FBL on it CAC will not sticker it (no matter how nice for the numerical grade) if CAC does not feel the coin is FBL by CAC FBL standards.
Seems to me that a "first strike" should be used for the first hundred or so coins struck from a new die. In other words, a very early die state coin. I, personally, would pay no premium whatsoever for anything else.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004.
Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004. >>
That's why I mentioned it. Also, the US mint has in the past sold products and indicated that the coins in these sets were the first coins struck...The George Washington coin covers from 2007 for example had 50K sets, which the US mint claimed were the first struck off the dies. Now of course the last set made #50K wouldn't be first but in 2007 they did make this statement.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004. >>
I would assume that ANACS had considered this and has a response in mind. I wonder if they plan on challenging the trademark or if they have another response in mind?
<< <i> I would assume that ANACS had considered this and has a response in mind. I wonder if they plan on challenging the trademark or if they have another response in mind? >>
That would be my guess. My first thought was," I wonder if it would be held up in court since it is a fairly generic term." And I wonder if PCGS meant trademark rather than copyright (which would make sense)? No disrespect meant to our host.
<< <i>If there is a market for these premium (but not designated) strikes, I would be very happy!
I have 7 1963-D nickels in MS64. I went through an original canvas bag of 4000 coins and sent the best ones hoping for FS designations (as a 64FS is a $1000 coin). However, I was 0-7. The nickels are 99% of the way to FS and I'm honestly shocked that ALL of them are not FS. Perhaps with a different Date/MM combination they would have been more generous.
Anyway, MACGE, please let me know if you'd be interested. What do you think these should be worth?
Here's an example:
>>
As to the value, a good place to start would be our price guide. I would suggest that you sign up with us as a dealer, send the coins into us, and if they get the designation we'll make you an offer. >>
This coin does not have all the details needed to make it a highly valued collector coin. It would suit a beginner's collection on a low 2 figure budget, $10-$12. The nonexistent details of the windows tells you right away the working dies were heavily worn when this coin was struck. With little details in the dies, the metal finally reaching the steps. I would save your money and buy other coins with it. They have certified a 1953-S that also has a weak strike. It is not a highly valued collector coin either.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
I've got a bunch of raw ones that look exactly like that. I'll be happy to sell them for $10 each. For the almost FS nickels, I'm hoping that people start to look for them or the stickers gain wider acceptance.
I just have to put my two cents in on the buffalo nickel designation FSTL or "full split tail" It will never gain traction. Better get rid of it now and look for some other way to dress up the value of mint state buffalo nickels. As koyneqwest said strike designation makes more sense. I was in the mac ge website for buffalo nickels and there was an enormous premium associated with a 1916 doubled die obvers e in ms64 buffalo nickel with an "FSTL" premium as opposed to the same one with no little MAC sticky added. Where did this information/ pricing data come from?
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
<< <i>Where did this information/ pricing data come from? >>
It must be from an intense analytical process that takes mintage and condition rarity, along with auction prices realized from all major venues as well as private sales and Internet searches.
Not quite sure I understand the vehemence against the business model here. Isnt it the same as CAC? Making a market in self stickered inventory? I get that Mr Hagar may not have the same reputation in the industry as Mr Albanese, but that seems to be a different issue.
And all this for a meaningless sticker. Too bad a few will fall for it. I hope it's just a few.
Too damn many "stickers" out there these days. Wouldn't be necessary if more collectors would learn to grade for themselves and could tell if a slabbed coin was overgraded (or undergraded.) Those days are long gone I fear.
<< <i>I just have to put my two cents in on the buffalo nickel designation FSTL or "full split tail" It will never gain traction. Better get rid of it now and look for some other way to dress up the value of mint state buffalo nickels. As koyneqwest said strike designation makes more sense. I was in the mac ge website for buffalo nickels and there was an enormous premium associated with a 1916 doubled die obvers e in ms64buffalo nickel with an "FSTL" premium as opposed to the same one with no little sticky added. Where did this information/ pricing data come from? >>
All of the prices are based on pops. We do utilize other information as well (auction results, demand for that specific series, and current market conditions), however the prices are mostly based on the population reports, we call this "pop pricing".
<< <i>Not quite sure I understand the vehemence against the business model here. Isnt it the same as CAC? Making a market in self stickered inventory? I get that Mr Hagar may not have the same reputation in the industry as Mr Albanese, but that seems to be a different issue. >>
It's about stickering what you sell. Not a good business model. Stinks of non-independent grading. Opinions that are paid for are expected to be completely independent.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004. >>
That's why I mentioned it. Also, the US mint has in the past sold products and indicated that the coins in these sets were the first coins struck...The George Washington coin covers from 2007 for example had 50K sets, which the US mint claimed were the first struck off the dies. Now of course the last set made #50K wouldn't be first but in 2007 they did make this statement. >>
While PCGS owns "First Strike," they do not own "First Struck Coins."
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004. >>
That's why I mentioned it. Also, the US mint has in the past sold products and indicated that the coins in these sets were the first coins struck...The George Washington coin covers from 2007 for example had 50K sets, which the US mint claimed were the first struck off the dies. Now of course the last set made #50K wouldn't be first but in 2007 they did make this statement. >>
While PCGS owns "First Strike," they do not own "First Struck Coins." >>
You mean "A First Strike Coin". I see no difference in adding "A" and Coin".
Interesting thread. It kept popping up so I figured what the heck and read most of it. Quite a few humorous bits in here. Thanks for the entertainment.
Just think about all the money the US Mint could make it they did start selling REAL First Strike coins!!! As I have said so many times before, all of these silly strike designations need to be dropped for just one, FULL STRIKE! As an example, full head is nice on SLQs but it takes it to the stupid Realm when just below that and much more obvious you can have rivets missing from the shield.
As with anything, the marketplace will determine the value of something when proper no reserve auctions are run.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
THE PRICE OF A 1916 DOUBLED DIE OBVERSE BUFF NICKEL IN NGC MS64 IS WORHTH $260,000 WHILE THE SAME COIN WITH A MAC GE FSTL STICKIE WOULD GO FOR $350,000! WOW!! THE PRICE OF A 1916 DOUBLED DIE OBVERSE BUFF IN PCGS MS64 IS WORTH $250,000 WHILE SAME COIN WITH MAC GE FSTL STICKIE GOES FOR $350,000!!
SO WE ARE SAYING THAT ADDING A FIFTEEN DOLLARS MAC STICKER TO THIS INCREDIBLE RARITY WILL POTENTIALLY ADD FROM 90 TO 100K IN VALUE? ALL BECAUSE IT HAS A FULL TAIL? THIS MAY WELL BE THE TALE OF THE FOOL-TAIL! WHERE DID THESE PRICES COME FROM? THEY DO NOT APPEAR TO BE GROUNDED IN ANY OBJECTIVE REALITY THAT I AM AWARE OF. NOTICE THAT THE MS64 UNSTICKERED NGC MS64 COIN IS WORTH TEN GRAND MORE THAN SAME UNSTICKERED COIN IN PCGS MS64 AND AGAIN THIS IS PER YOUR WEBSITE.
PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
THE PRICE OF A 1916 DOUBLED DIE OBVERSE BUFF NICKEL IN NGC MS64 IS WORHTH $260,000 WHILE THE SAME COIN WITH A MAC GE FSTL STICKIE WOULD GO FOR $350,000! WOW!! THE PRICE OF A 1916 DOUBLED DIE OBVERSE BUFF IN PCGS MS64 IS WORTH $250,000 WHILE SAME COIN WITH MAC GE FSTL STICKIE GOES FOR $350,000!!
SO WE ARE SAYING THAT ADDING A FIFTEEN DOLLARS MAC STICKER TO THIS INCREDIBLE RARITY WILL POTENTIALLY ADD FROM 90 TO 100K IN VALUE? ALL BECAUSE IT HAS A FULL TAIL? THIS MAY WELL BE THE TALE OF THE FOOL-TAIL! WHERE DID THESE PRICES COME FROM? THEY DO NOT APPEAR TO BE GROUNDED IN ANY REALITY THAT I AM AWARE OF. NOTICE THAT THE MS64 UNSTICKERED NGC MS64 COIN IS WORTH TEN GRAND MORE THAN SAME UNSTICKERED COIN IN PCGS MS64 AND AGAIN THIS IS PER YOUR WEBSITE.
PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME. >>
I believe MAC price guide is JUST A GUIDE. I believe speaking to Mr. Hager I recall that MAC will buy their stickered coins at 60% of listed price guide value. So, on a $350,000 price guide with a sticker- MAC will buy that coin for $210,000.
perhaps the above DDO coin they might pay more, but that would be something to confirm with them first.
And asking whether a little sticker can add $100,000 in value the answer is many times over yes when it comes to a CAC stickered coin. when you are playing with coins that are multi hundred thousands of dollars- differences in price can easily be $100,000 or more for a stickered example vs a non stickered.
<< <i>where is link to his ebay stuff - curious >>
In my most recent issue of Coin World there was an ad listing ebay sales by item #, here is what I found for 6 that I took the time to look up:
#1) 1991-D ROOSEVELT DIME NGC MAC MS66 FT PQ SOLO FINEST THE ONLY KNOWN PIECE Item Number: 400913343024 400913343024 Seller: macabletrading Found No Feedback left or received bought by: l***e( 434 )
#2) 1991-D ROOSEVELT DIME PCGS MAC MS66 PQ SOLO FINEST REGISTRY POP-1 * Item Number: 361328561720 361328561720 Seller: macabletrading Found No Feedback left or received Listed in Ad as SOLD - Ended by Seller
#3) 1970-D KENNEDY HALF DOLLAR PCGS MAC MS67 PQ FINEST REGISTRY EXTREMELY RARE . Item Number: 231500162562 231500162562 Seller: collectibletrading Found No Feedback left or received bought by: g***r( 237 )
#4) 1969-D KENNEDY SILVER HALF DOLLAR NGC MAC MS67 FINEST REGISTRY RARE POP-8 * Item Number: 361236420057 361236420057 Seller: macabletrading Feedback left and received bought by: g***r( 237 )
#5) 1988 SILVER EAGLE 1-OZ DOLLAR NGC MAC MS-70 FINEST REGISTRY SPOTLESS * Item Number: 400880003776 400880003776 Seller: macabletrading Feedback left but none received bought by: s***a( 3 )
#6) 1950 10C PCGS MAC PR68 CAM Item Number: 331500084202 ITEM NOT FOUND
"And asking whether a little sticker can add $100,000 in value the answer is many times over yes when it comes to a CAC stickered coin. when you are playing with coins that are multi hundred thousands of dollars- differences in price can easily be $100,000 or more for a stickered example vs a non stickered."
But please notice I made NO MENTION of CACI. I am only referring to MAC stickered coins.
buffnixx
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
After some more due consideration I do think there is some merit to what MAC is doing. The market will of course determine the demand for each GE sticker available. But for the Buffalo Nickel I would predict almost no demand for the FSTL stickie. Would be best to nip this unfortunate designation and look for something else in the buffalo nickel series to key on. Strike would be the best area.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
1) Alan Hager -- founder 2) Eli Meisels -- President 3) Mike Rubin -- visionary.
The founder of a company comes first, so then he can hire a president or appoint himself if he wants to I guess. I have no idea what a visionary is, is that a position under the president? Maybe the visionary is where the financial backing comes from?
I would assume that MACGE1 is the president Eli Meisels.
I wish all three the best and as in any capitalistic endevour/adventure the market always determines the winners, whiners, and losers. buffnixx
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
It's been what, eight months or so since MACGE's launch.
I checked Ebay today and 97% of all MAC coins listed there are offered by seller macabletrading.
The remaining 3% of MAC coins are offered by 2 or 3 sellers.
And if you search completed auctions, the numbers are not that impressive.
This is hardly indicative of a successful venture at this point.
But, being curious, I decided to give them a try and sent some coins to be considered for stickering.
The good news first:
The turn- around time was very good and I got stickers on all the coins I submitted.
BUT:
I was quite dismayed with the manner in which the coins (with ~ $9000 value, according to MACGE's price guide) were mailed back to me:
A small flat rate box was sent sig. confirmation not Registered.
But the really troubling part: Whomever packed the coins for mailing did not even bother to peel the backing paper off of the self-adhesive flap that serves to securely close the small flat rate mailer.
Instead, they just taped the flap closed with a single strip of clear cellophane packaging tape.
As such, this was a package just begging to be tampered with. It was with great trepidation that I opened the box and found that all was well.
But I can't imagine MacGe's insurer would readily pay out on a claim if they knew how carelessly the coins were being sent out.
I can not see how this will help the industry, collectors. I sure can't see how this is any different than what has been done before. I suppose there are others, that can add as much as other sticker folks, but how many do we really need? I wish them all the luck in the venture but I have my doubts.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Well, I'm late to this thread, but since I now have history with our newest friend MACge, I thought I would share and see what kind of response I may get from him. I'm actually expecting nothing, but lets see.
On July 12th, Macabletrading listed a nice 1996-D MS68FB PCGS Roosevelt Dime for $159.00 w/free shipping. I hit the B.I.N. and bought the coin and didn't pay for it, knowing that coin was worth $850 and there was a possibility that this was an error. It took about 2 hours if memory serves and the eBay auction was cancelled with no explanation at all. The coin was promptly relisted with a corrected (Very bloated) B.I.N. of $1,895.00. I didn't get any sort of response from this company what so ever as to why my auction was cancelled. I really thought I would get an Email with some sort of "Well we are very sorry for the mix up and we would like to offer you the coin first blah blah blah" Nothing! Now who does that and is suppose to run a decent company?????????
I had to send them an Email and ask about the coin....here are the 2 Emails:
Dear macabletrading,
I would like to know why you cancelled this auction please?
Thank you very much.
Paul.
- ms69fb
Dear ms69fb,
There was an error in the listing price of $1895.00 and not $159.00
- macabletrading
If you still want to sell the coin instead of letting it collect dust sitting on eBay for the next 5 years let me know, because ask around...Roosies are about dead, and there are about 3 of us that actually collect these, but you won't be selling it at $1,395 or whatever you have it at now.
Comments
I respectfully disagree. A pretty darn good "comp" coin is probably the 1973-P Nickel in PCGS-MS67 that fetched about $644 at auction back in 2008. "Registry chasers" generally seek PCGS graded FS coins, not non-FS coins. On top of that, nickel prices have dropped sharply over the past few years and selling that 1975-P at a price of $520 seems fair all the way around. I would have no problem with the PCGS Price Guide pricing that coin at $500-$550 in the MS67 grade. IMHO, some of the "$200" or so prices on these pop 1 or pop 2 modern Jeffs in MS67 non FS steppers are simply conservative opening prices after the coins get slabbed for the first or second time. Personally, I think these type of coins (especially from the 1970's) should be closer to $500 retail in the Guide. I am sure it only helps an MS67 Jeff to be identified as a "4 stepper" as, in theory, such a coin could possibly get an MS67 grade with 1 or 2 steps.
By the way, I recently sold (for a customer) the only 1975-P Jefferson Nickel grading PCGS-MS67FS (pop 1 at the time). I offered the coin first on the Registry forum and suggested the coin was quite possibly undergraded at MS67FS in my offering/discussions with a couple board members. There were no takers and I then sent the coin to Heritage (at no reserve at the request of the customer) where it fetched about $2,000. The coin then promptly reappeared in another Heritage sale as the pop 1/0 PCGS-MS67+FS where it fetched about $2,800. I thought the buyer of the pop 1/0 MS67+FS got a real bargain at $2,800. I would be quite surprised if a coin was located in the next three to five years that graded higher than that pop 1/0 MS67+FS.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
https://www.omnicoin.com/collection/colind?page=1&sort=sort&sale=1&country=0
<< <i>If there is a market for these premium (but not designated) strikes, I would be very happy!
I have 7 1963-D nickels in MS64. I went through an original canvas bag of 4000 coins and sent the best ones hoping for FS designations (as a 64FS is a $1000 coin). However, I was 0-7.
The nickels are 99% of the way to FS and I'm honestly shocked that ALL of them are not FS. Perhaps with a different Date/MM combination they would have been more generous.
Anyway, MACGE, please let me know if you'd be interested. What do you think these should be worth?
Here's an example:
As to the value, a good place to start would be our price guide. I would suggest that you sign up with us as a dealer, send the coins into us, and if they get the designation we'll make you an offer.
My YouTube Channel
<< <i>MS grading of large cents was introduced by Marshall Sheldon >>
<< <i>As to the value, a good place to start would be our price guide. I would suggest that you sign up with us as a dealer, send the coins into us, and if they get the designation we'll make you an offer. >>
I seem to recall another, earlier, TPGS, that used to have dealers send in a lot, grade them, and, I had heard, would trade costs for coins as some point....gave an incentive to grade coins low and get them cheap.
That TPGS is no longer around even though the principal is.
Certainly hope that there are processes and rules in place to prevent any potential ethical violation, such as the one above, from happening.......
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>As to the value, a good place to start would be our price guide. I would suggest that you sign up with us as a dealer, send the coins into us, and if they get the designation we'll make you an offer. >>
I seem to recall another, earlier, TPGS, that used to have dealers send in a lot, grade them, and, I had heard, would trade costs for coins as some point....gave an incentive to grade coins low and get them cheap.
That TPGS is no longer around even though the principal is.
Certainly hope that there are processes and rules in place to prevent any potential ethical violation, such as the one above, from happening....... >>
Mac-GE is the company doing the grading and placing the stickers on the coins. MAC Exchange is the wholesale trading side, two different companies with two different sets of people running them.
Seems like a conflict of interest if there's any common ownership.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Mac-GE is the company doing the grading and placing the stickers on the coins. MAC Exchange is the wholesale trading side, two different companies with two different sets of people running them.
Seems like a conflict of interest if there's any common ownership. >>
Almost like deja-vu a decade, or more, ago.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I was just rereading this thread and noticed this glaring misunderstanding:
<< <i>Now Franklins can get a 90% FBL sticker. I've gotta wonder: is it really wise to quantify a detail so precisely? CAC, for example -- which is clearly the inspiration for this effort -- accepts coins in the middle and top-thirds for the grade. (And they don't do designations, as I understand.) >>
CAC absolutely DOES do designations! If a slab says FBL on it CAC will not sticker it (no matter how nice for the numerical grade) if CAC does not feel the coin is FBL by CAC FBL standards.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off.....
LINK
<< <i>I just spat coffee at my LCD screen after seeing FSBK stood for Full Split Beak
It does! Here's the full MACge Grade Enhancement Guide. It's interesting that Split Beak is SB and Full Split Beak is FSBK with an added K.
<< <i>"First strike" is a U.S. Mint term.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
This is from the US Mint:
<< <i>The United States Mint has not designated any coins or products as "first strikes" >>
<< <i>"First strike" is a U.S. Mint term.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004.
<< <i>
<< <i>"First strike" is a U.S. Mint term.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004. >>
That's why I mentioned it. Also, the US mint has in the past sold products and indicated that the coins in these sets were the first coins struck...The George Washington coin covers from 2007 for example had 50K sets, which the US mint claimed were the first struck off the dies. Now of course the last set made #50K wouldn't be first but in 2007 they did make this statement.
<< <i>
<< <i>"First strike" is a U.S. Mint term.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004. >>
I would assume that ANACS had considered this and has a response in mind. I wonder if they plan on challenging the trademark or if they have another response in mind?
<< <i> I would assume that ANACS had considered this and has a response in mind. I wonder if they plan on challenging the trademark or if they have another response in mind? >>
That would be my guess. My first thought was," I wonder if it would be held up in court since it is a fairly generic term." And I wonder if PCGS meant trademark rather than copyright (which would make sense)? No disrespect meant to our host.
<< <i>
<< <i>If there is a market for these premium (but not designated) strikes, I would be very happy!
I have 7 1963-D nickels in MS64. I went through an original canvas bag of 4000 coins and sent the best ones hoping for FS designations (as a 64FS is a $1000 coin). However, I was 0-7.
The nickels are 99% of the way to FS and I'm honestly shocked that ALL of them are not FS. Perhaps with a different Date/MM combination they would have been more generous.
Anyway, MACGE, please let me know if you'd be interested. What do you think these should be worth?
Here's an example:
As to the value, a good place to start would be our price guide. I would suggest that you sign up with us as a dealer, send the coins into us, and if they get the designation we'll make you an offer. >>
This coin does not have all the details needed to make it a highly valued collector coin. It would suit a beginner's collection on a low 2 figure budget, $10-$12. The nonexistent details of the windows tells you right away the working dies were heavily worn when this coin was struck. With little details in the dies, the metal finally reaching the steps. I would save your money and buy other coins with it. They have certified a 1953-S that also has a weak strike. It is not a highly valued collector coin either.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
For the almost FS nickels, I'm hoping that people start to look for them or the stickers gain wider acceptance.
I was in the mac ge website for buffalo nickels and there was an enormous premium associated with a 1916 doubled die obvers e in ms64 buffalo nickel with an "FSTL" premium as opposed to the same one with no little MAC sticky added. Where did this information/ pricing data come from?
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
<< <i>Where did this information/ pricing data come from? >>
It must be from an intense analytical process that takes mintage and condition rarity, along with auction prices realized from all major venues as well as private sales and Internet searches.
Or it could just be made up
Too damn many "stickers" out there these days. Wouldn't be necessary if more collectors would learn to grade for themselves and could tell if a slabbed coin was overgraded (or undergraded.) Those days are long gone I fear.
<< <i>I just have to put my two cents in on the buffalo nickel designation FSTL or "full split tail" It will never gain traction. Better get rid of it now and look for some other way to dress up the value of mint state buffalo nickels. As koyneqwest said strike designation makes more sense.
I was in the mac ge website for buffalo nickels and there was an enormous premium associated with a 1916 doubled die obvers e in ms64buffalo nickel with an "FSTL" premium as opposed to the same one with no little sticky added. Where did this information/ pricing data come from? >>
All of the prices are based on pops. We do utilize other information as well (auction results, demand for that specific series, and current market conditions), however the prices are mostly based on the population reports, we call this "pop pricing".
<< <i>Not quite sure I understand the vehemence against the business model here. Isnt it the same as CAC? Making a market in self stickered inventory? I get that Mr Hagar may not have the same reputation in the industry as Mr Albanese, but that seems to be a different issue. >>
It's about stickering what you sell. Not a good business model. Stinks of non-independent grading. Opinions that are paid for are expected to be completely independent.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"First strike" is a U.S. Mint term.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004. >>
That's why I mentioned it. Also, the US mint has in the past sold products and indicated that the coins in these sets were the first coins struck...The George Washington coin covers from 2007 for example had 50K sets, which the US mint claimed were the first struck off the dies. Now of course the last set made #50K wouldn't be first but in 2007 they did make this statement. >>
While PCGS owns "First Strike," they do not own "First Struck Coins."
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"First strike" is a U.S. Mint term.
I beg to differ. First Strike is a term developed by PCGS. PCGS owns a copyright on 'First Strike'.
That is all. Signing off..... >>
ANACS might get in hot water for using this. PCGS does own trademark #3074869 for "First Strike" for "coin grading and authentication services", registered on April 22, 2004. >>
That's why I mentioned it. Also, the US mint has in the past sold products and indicated that the coins in these sets were the first coins struck...The George Washington coin covers from 2007 for example had 50K sets, which the US mint claimed were the first struck off the dies. Now of course the last set made #50K wouldn't be first but in 2007 they did make this statement. >>
While PCGS owns "First Strike," they do not own "First Struck Coins." >>
You mean "A First Strike Coin". I see no difference in adding "A" and Coin".
Quite a few humorous bits in here. Thanks for the entertainment.
Just think about all the money the US Mint could make it they did start selling REAL First Strike coins!!!
As I have said so many times before, all of these silly strike designations need to be dropped for
just one, FULL STRIKE! As an example, full head is nice on SLQs but it takes it to the stupid
Realm when just below that and much more obvious you can have rivets missing from the shield.
As with anything, the marketplace will determine the value of something when proper no reserve auctions are run.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
THE FOLLOWING PRICES ARE FROM YOUR WEBSITE.
THE PRICE OF A 1916 DOUBLED DIE OBVERSE BUFF NICKEL IN NGC MS64 IS WORHTH $260,000 WHILE THE SAME COIN WITH A MAC GE FSTL STICKIE WOULD GO FOR $350,000! WOW!!
THE PRICE OF A 1916 DOUBLED DIE OBVERSE BUFF IN PCGS MS64 IS WORTH $250,000 WHILE SAME COIN WITH MAC GE FSTL STICKIE GOES FOR $350,000!!
SO WE ARE SAYING THAT ADDING A FIFTEEN DOLLARS MAC STICKER TO THIS INCREDIBLE RARITY WILL POTENTIALLY ADD FROM 90 TO 100K IN VALUE? ALL BECAUSE IT
HAS A FULL TAIL? THIS MAY WELL BE THE TALE OF THE FOOL-TAIL!
WHERE DID THESE PRICES COME FROM?
THEY DO NOT APPEAR TO BE GROUNDED IN ANY OBJECTIVE REALITY THAT I AM AWARE OF.
NOTICE THAT THE MS64 UNSTICKERED NGC MS64 COIN IS WORTH TEN GRAND MORE THAN SAME UNSTICKERED COIN IN PCGS MS64 AND AGAIN THIS IS PER YOUR WEBSITE.
PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
<< <i>to MACGE1
THE FOLLOWING PRICES ARE FROM YOUR WEBSITE.
THE PRICE OF A 1916 DOUBLED DIE OBVERSE BUFF NICKEL IN NGC MS64 IS WORHTH $260,000 WHILE THE SAME COIN WITH A MAC GE FSTL STICKIE WOULD GO FOR $350,000! WOW!!
THE PRICE OF A 1916 DOUBLED DIE OBVERSE BUFF IN PCGS MS64 IS WORTH $250,000 WHILE SAME COIN WITH MAC GE FSTL STICKIE GOES FOR $350,000!!
SO WE ARE SAYING THAT ADDING A FIFTEEN DOLLARS MAC STICKER TO THIS INCREDIBLE RARITY WILL POTENTIALLY ADD FROM 90 TO 100K IN VALUE? ALL BECAUSE IT
HAS A FULL TAIL? THIS MAY WELL BE THE TALE OF THE FOOL-TAIL!
WHERE DID THESE PRICES COME FROM?
THEY DO NOT APPEAR TO BE GROUNDED IN ANY REALITY THAT I AM AWARE OF.
NOTICE THAT THE MS64 UNSTICKERED NGC MS64 COIN IS WORTH TEN GRAND MORE THAN SAME UNSTICKERED COIN IN PCGS MS64 AND AGAIN THIS IS PER YOUR WEBSITE.
PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME. >>
I believe MAC price guide is JUST A GUIDE. I believe speaking to Mr. Hager I recall that MAC will buy their stickered coins at 60% of listed price guide value.
So, on a $350,000 price guide with a sticker- MAC will buy that coin for $210,000.
perhaps the above DDO coin they might pay more, but that would be something to confirm with them first.
And asking whether a little sticker can add $100,000 in value the answer is many times over yes when it comes to a CAC stickered coin.
when you are playing with coins that are multi hundred thousands of dollars- differences in price can easily be $100,000 or more for a stickered example vs a non stickered.
<< <i>where is link to his ebay stuff - curious >>
In my most recent issue of Coin World there was an ad listing ebay sales by item #, here is what I found for 6 that I took the time to look up:
#1) 1991-D ROOSEVELT DIME NGC MAC MS66 FT PQ SOLO FINEST THE ONLY KNOWN PIECE
Item Number: 400913343024 400913343024
Seller: macabletrading
Found No Feedback left or received
bought by: l***e( 434 )
#2) 1991-D ROOSEVELT DIME PCGS MAC MS66 PQ SOLO FINEST REGISTRY POP-1 *
Item Number: 361328561720 361328561720
Seller: macabletrading
Found No Feedback left or received
Listed in Ad as SOLD - Ended by Seller
#3) 1970-D KENNEDY HALF DOLLAR PCGS MAC MS67 PQ FINEST REGISTRY EXTREMELY RARE .
Item Number: 231500162562 231500162562
Seller: collectibletrading
Found No Feedback left or received
bought by: g***r( 237 )
#4) 1969-D KENNEDY SILVER HALF DOLLAR NGC MAC MS67 FINEST REGISTRY RARE POP-8 *
Item Number: 361236420057 361236420057
Seller: macabletrading
Feedback left and received
bought by: g***r( 237 )
#5) 1988 SILVER EAGLE 1-OZ DOLLAR NGC MAC MS-70 FINEST REGISTRY SPOTLESS *
Item Number: 400880003776 400880003776
Seller: macabletrading
Feedback left but none received
bought by: s***a( 3 )
#6) 1950 10C PCGS MAC PR68 CAM
Item Number: 331500084202
ITEM NOT FOUND
Seller: macabletrading
Seller: collectibletrading
both of the above sellers in Sanford, Florida
Edited to linkify item #'s
<< <i> I believe speaking to Mr. Hager I recall that MAC will buy their stickered coins at 60% of listed price guide value. >>
I would dearly like to see this in writing on thee MacGE website.
Instead of "hearsay".
This. Just another marketing scheme. <<<
+ 1
All of these stickers are just opinions of opinions..........come on people.....I for one can tell a nice coin when I see one.
I just hope collectors don't fall for this hype!
"And asking whether a little sticker can add $100,000 in value the answer is many times over yes when it comes to a CAC stickered coin.
when you are playing with coins that are multi hundred thousands of dollars- differences in price can easily be $100,000 or more for a stickered example vs a non stickered."
But please notice I made NO MENTION of CACI. I am only referring to MAC stickered coins.
buffnixx
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Would be best to nip this unfortunate designation and look for something else in the buffalo nickel series to key on. Strike would be the best area.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
1) Alan Hager -- founder
2) Eli Meisels -- President
3) Mike Rubin -- visionary.
The founder of a company comes first, so then he can hire a president or appoint himself if he wants to I guess.
I have no idea what a visionary is, is that a position under the president?
Maybe the visionary is where the financial backing comes from?
I would assume that MACGE1 is the president Eli Meisels.
I wish all three the best and as in any capitalistic endevour/adventure the market always determines the winners, whiners, and losers.
buffnixx
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I checked Ebay today and 97% of all MAC coins listed there are offered by seller macabletrading.
The remaining 3% of MAC coins are offered by 2 or 3 sellers.
And if you search completed auctions, the numbers are not that impressive.
This is hardly indicative of a successful venture at this point.
But, being curious, I decided to give them a try and sent some coins to be considered for stickering.
The good news first:
The turn- around time was very good and I got stickers on all the coins I submitted.
BUT:
I was quite dismayed with the manner in which the coins (with ~ $9000 value, according to MACGE's price guide) were mailed back to me:
A small flat rate box was sent sig. confirmation not Registered.
But the really troubling part: Whomever packed the coins for mailing did not even bother to peel the backing paper off of the self-adhesive flap that serves to securely close the small flat rate mailer.
Instead, they just taped the flap closed with a single strip of clear cellophane packaging tape.
As such, this was a package just begging to be tampered with. It was with great trepidation that I opened the box and found that all was well.
But I can't imagine MacGe's insurer would readily pay out on a claim if they knew how carelessly the coins were being sent out.
I suppose there are others, that can add as much as other sticker folks, but how many do we really need? I wish them all the luck in the venture but I have my doubts.
Something about the daughter's lawyer turning her against him and so he served her with eviction papers - sad, either way you see it.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
On July 12th, Macabletrading listed a nice 1996-D MS68FB PCGS Roosevelt Dime for $159.00 w/free shipping. I hit the B.I.N. and bought the coin and didn't pay for it, knowing that coin was worth $850 and there was a possibility that this was an error. It took about 2 hours if memory serves and the eBay auction was cancelled with no explanation at all. The coin was promptly relisted with a corrected (Very bloated) B.I.N. of $1,895.00. I didn't get any sort of response from this company what so ever as to why my auction was cancelled. I really thought I would get an Email with some sort of "Well we are very sorry for the mix up and we would like to offer you the coin first blah blah blah" Nothing! Now who does that and is suppose to run a decent company?????????
I had to send them an Email and ask about the coin....here are the 2 Emails:
Dear macabletrading,
I would like to know why you cancelled this auction please?
Thank you very much.
Paul.
- ms69fb
Dear ms69fb,
There was an error in the listing price of $1895.00 and not $159.00
- macabletrading
If you still want to sell the coin instead of letting it collect dust sitting on eBay for the next 5 years let me know, because ask around...Roosies are about dead, and there are about 3 of us that actually collect these, but you won't be selling it at $1,395 or whatever you have it at now.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>FWIW this has been one of the best popcorn threads!
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!