My theory on the cause of the Narrow Reeding found on some 2015 1/10th oz. gold eagles CONFIRMED!

CaptHenway · January 31, 2015 11:49PM

See this Coin World posting:

linky

The 2008-W 1/10th oz. gold Buffalo coins did use a Narrow Reeding. Still trying to verify if they are exactly the same or not.

TD

jmski52 · February 1, 2015 1:22AM

Could be an interesting variety. Tom, do you know where the Mint gets it's reeded collars? Their supplier may have had some existing stock left over from 2008.

The Gold Spouses all have fine reeding as well.

CaptHenway · February 1, 2015 1:35AM

I always thought that they made them theirselves, but it is possible that they farmed that out to a vendor at some point.

I know that decades ago they would take a dime collar that had worn out and enlarge the hole with a smooth edge and use it to make cents, and when that got too large enlarge it again and use it to make nickels, but I have no idea if that is still done with the more modern presses.

CaptHenway · February 1, 2015 6:46AM

Somebody pointed out to me that the first spouse gold coins have a fairly fine reeding as well. Perhaps the 24kt gold issues, as the first spouse and Buffalo coins are, need to be struck in finer collars lest the reeding be damaged during the ejection process.

TD

ms70 · February 1, 2015 7:07AM

Very interesting situation. Good article & theory. Who discovered the different reeding?

Timbuk3 · February 1, 2015 9:18AM

Good to know !!!

CaptHenway · February 1, 2015 8:44PM

<< Very interesting situation. Good article & theory. Who discovered the different reeding? >>

I don't know. NGC reported it to the media. Don't know who submitted them.

CaptHenway · February 2, 2015 12:00AM

I am now pretty sure these Narrow Reeding 2015 1/10 Eagles were struck from a 1/10 Buffalo collar. Since a collar is considered the "third die," wouldn't that make the 2015 Narrow Reeding coins Mules?

TD

Icollecteverything · February 2, 2015 2:28AM

That is quite a dramatic difference shown in the pic.

Tomthecoinguy · February 2, 2015 3:37AM

It will be interesting to see the relative rarity. Based on the mint comment about thousands of Narrow reeds being produced, it makes me think the narrow reeds may be much rarer. I also wonder if you buy a mint roll, if their could be a mix of each in the roll or if it is all one or the other. My guess is it would be a mix, if you are lucky enough to find a narrow reed at all.

CaptHenway · February 3, 2015 4:57AM

Still trying to get pictures of the one stacked atop the other to compare reeding.

CaptHenway · February 5, 2015 3:08AM

No luck on the pictures yet.

CyStater · February 5, 2015 3:19AM

Any premium on either variety?

brendanlam · February 17, 2015 1:08AM

Does anyone has update on this find?mintage?and rarity? I saw mcm sale a set for around $550.

Raufus · February 17, 2015 1:30AM

Some of these on Feebay. Better yet, MCM has them.

Significant premium on narrow variety.

I wonder how these will do over time.

I remember that in the early stages of the '08 w/Rev of '07 they were very cheap.

Feebay listing...

Addendum: WOW! MCM sold out of the 70 ERs in two hours.

CaptHenway · February 17, 2015 8:30AM

ttt

derryb · February 17, 2015 9:40AM

While both the buff and the AGE have the same diameter, there is a difference of .07 mm in thickness. Would this prevent the same collar from being used on both coins?

We may find a second mint is striking them as is the case with the ASE's that are all now being shipped with West Point straps.

Raufus · February 17, 2015 9:51AM

I'm surprised that there is not more interest in these. The 99 proofs w/unc finish did well as did the 08 w/rev of 07 ASEs. Not that they are the same of course but these are a different and likely relatively rare variety of a popular issue. The MCM 70s sold very quickly @ $400 - a significant premium. Why so little interest?

derryb · February 17, 2015 9:57AM

<< The MCM 70s sold very quickly @ $400 - a significant premium. Why so little interest? >>

Flippers jumped on most of 'em.

edited to add: MCM just sent an email, they have more being graded.

Raufus · February 17, 2015 10:03AM

I see that a 70ER sold on eBay for $749 and a 69 for $495. Those flippers seem to have done well.

Edited: The $749 coin sold in less than 3 hours.

jessewvu · February 17, 2015 10:04AM

think there are more sitting around at the mint right now? If so, do you think they will stop shipping to remove them from inventory?

Raufus · February 17, 2015 10:34AM

From the link at the top of the thread:

"There were several thousand of the variant produced."

I've not seen any addl info.

Raufus · February 17, 2015 10:35AM

Sorry, double post.

derryb · February 17, 2015 12:48PM

<< From the link at the top of the thread:

"There were several thousand of the variant produced."

I've not seen any addl info. >>

Depends on if only one "narrow" collar die was used and also on how many strikes per collar die. One would think a collar die can produce many more coins than can an obv. or rev. die.

CaptHenway · February 17, 2015 11:02PM

<< 

<< From the link at the top of the thread:

"There were several thousand of the variant produced."

I've not seen any addl info. >>

Depends on if only one "narrow" collar die was used and also on how many strikes per collar die. One would think a collar die can produce many more coins than can an obv. or rev. die. >>

Agreed. IMHO they did not wear this collar out striking the Narrow Reeding coins, they noticed their error and stopped production. The question is when.

Overdate · February 17, 2015 11:17PM

<< Somebody pointed out to me that the first spouse gold coins have a fairly fine reeding as well. Perhaps the 24kt gold issues, as the first spouse and Buffalo coins are, need to be struck in finer collars lest the reeding be damaged during the ejection process.

TD >>

What about the 1 oz. Buffalos? Do they have the same reeding as the 1 oz. Gold Eagles? If not, a similar "variant" could show up on either type of coin.

brendanlam · February 17, 2015 11:19PM

Let assumed there is only one collar die, how many coins punch out before they replace it?

CaptHenway · February 17, 2015 11:41PM

<< 

<< Somebody pointed out to me that the first spouse gold coins have a fairly fine reeding as well. Perhaps the 24kt gold issues, as the first spouse and Buffalo coins are, need to be struck in finer collars lest the reeding be damaged during the ejection process.

TD >>

What about the 1 oz. Buffalos? Do they have the same reeding as the 1 oz. Gold Eagles? If not, a similar "variant" could show up on either type of coin. >>

I have already suggested that it could show up on all four sizes of gold eagles. Check all 2015 gold for narrow reeding.

derryb · February 17, 2015 11:46PM

<< IMHO they did not wear this collar out striking the Narrow Reeding coins, they noticed their error and stopped production. The question is when. >>

Per a mint spokesman in the OP's link: "Multiple collars were used to produce the 2015 tenth-ounce gold Eagles. The U.S. Mint does not consider the coin an error, just a variant. There were several thousand of the variant produced."
I'm with you, mint made a mistake in die selection but won't admit it.

derryb · February 17, 2015 11:54PM

<< Very interesting situation. Good article & theory. Who discovered the different reeding? >>

Apparently it was NGC graders

brendanlam · February 18, 2015 3:53AM

As is right now total graded is 1128, that is not a lot, but enough coins going around for profit. But I don't see any on eBay now.

Raufus · February 18, 2015 7:12AM

Two sold yesterday on Ebay for $700+ (can check exact sales price later).

One listed for $780 of so now.

brendanlam · February 18, 2015 7:19AM

Just got email from MCM more coins go on sale soon.

7over8 · February 18, 2015 8:46PM

Looks like one retailer capitalized on a so-called error/mule
However, the USM has already indicated this was not done by error, but rather
that several thousand of each reeding has been produced
This is unlike the 2008 R 2007 ASE's when they "in error" paired a 2007 reverse
With a 2008 obverse
Not an error, not a mule, and probably not even scarce in numbers
Would not waste my money on this one---there will always be flippers
who make good money on those who are unaware of the coins true
scarcity---by hyping it up.....I'm sure they also use the words RARE and WOW
In their fleabay listings too

derryb · February 18, 2015 10:12PM

Regardless of what the mint is currently saying, they made an error - they used the wrong die. It will demand a nice premium. 99 W uncircs. (actual mintage unknown) are stronger than ever. The two are similar in the fact that a wrong die was used. If it turns out that just the one wrong collar die was used, the narrow reeds will be sought after by collectors. If this is the case I see pricing on the narrow reeds eventually mirroring the $5 W uncirc.

Raufus · February 20, 2015 4:30AM

Almost upto $800 of Feebay. Not too shabby for a couple of days.

brendanlam · February 20, 2015 4:40AM

Anyone made an order with MCM and recieve it yet?

Raufus · February 20, 2015 4:57AM

<< Anyone made an order with MCM and recieve it yet? >>

My two 70s arrived today. Wish I'd have bought more. Shoulda, coulda, woulda....

brendanlam · February 20, 2015 5:37AM

<< 

<< Anyone made an order with MCM and recieve it yet? >>

My two 70s arrived today. Wish I'd have bought more. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.... >>

I called REP said not until next Friday, should order 70s, dumb me so cheap just order 2 69s

Raufus · February 20, 2015 5:49AM

<< 

<< 

<< Anyone made an order with MCM and recieve it yet? >>

My two 70s arrived today. Wish I'd have bought more. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.... >>

I called REP said not until next Friday, should order 70s, dumb me so cheap just order 2 69s >>

69s have still done very well.

Easy to kick ourselves now I suppose, but at the time it was not clear that these would do as well as they have - at least in the very short term. All who bought had to quickly decide to pay about 2x what the wide reed variety was going for on the assumption that these would be far rarer and appreciate. Those who bought did well, at least in the very short term but we could have just as easily lost. Thinking of selling one and keeping one so I'm covered to some extent either way. May loose some upside but will at least pay for the keeper in case they tank.

CaptHenway · February 20, 2015 6:15AM

I see what people are selling them at. What are people buying them at?

Raufus · February 20, 2015 6:37AM

<< I see what people are selling them at. What are people buying them at? >>

Three 70ERs sold on the 18th for $620, $640 and $710.

Last one reported on Feebay sold yesterday for $785

$785

derryb · February 20, 2015 6:40AM

<< I see what people are selling them at. What are people buying them at? >>

To date ebay Narrow Reed sales:
(1) MS 69: 495.00
(5) MS 70: 620.00, 640.00, 695.00, 710.00, 785.00
(2) raw: 233.00, 312.00

Note that the "Wide Reed" addition to the label of the "normal" coin is bringing $200 on the 69's and $229-249 on the 70's.

CaptHenway · February 20, 2015 6:48AM

I mean, what are the people selling them at these prices buying them back at?

Raufus · February 20, 2015 6:59AM

<< I mean, what are the people selling them at these prices buying them back at? >>

These are ebay sales. No idea what - nor even if - these sellers would buy back for.

Raufus · February 20, 2015 7:04AM

<< 

<< I see what people are selling them at. What are people buying them at? >>

To date ebay Narrow Reed sales:
(1) MS 69: 495.00
(5) MS 70: 620.00, 640.00, 695.00, 710.00, 785.00
(2) raw: 233.00, 312.00

Note that the "Wide Reed" addition to the label of the "normal" coin is bringing $200 on the 69's and $229-249 on the 70's. >>

Interesting re: "Wide Reed" addition. Looks like a well spent $15 for that designation.

7over8 · February 21, 2015 6:46AM

<< Regardless of what the mint is currently saying, they made an error - they used the wrong die. It will demand a nice premium. 99 W uncircs. (actual mintage unknown) are stronger than ever. The two are similar in the fact that a wrong die was used. If it turns out that just the one wrong collar die was used, the narrow reeds will be sought after by collectors. If this is the case I see pricing on the narrow reeds eventually mirroring the $5 W uncirc. >>

You are assuming they made an error. You are assuming they used the wrong collar.

They have STATED that they produced several thousand of each type. They did not say they used the narrow reed collar in error. Who knows, it may be a transition year, they may use narrow reeds going forward....

This is NOT like the 1999 "W", where proof dies were used in error. This is NOT like the 2008 reverse 2007 where the wrong reverse die was used. Both were admittedly errors by the USM.

Not this one guys - now if they only made a few hundred......maybe you have some rarity that some may want to acquire. But several thousand...........not worth twice the wide reed.

Raufus · February 21, 2015 7:25AM

This is great...

$10K RARE First five serial numbers!!!

It looks like this seller does not understand what the "001 - 005" on his certs actually means.

He did get 5/5 70s on the first five coins in his submission though. Lucked out on that.

7over8 · February 21, 2015 7:34AM

you would have to be absolutely nuts to pay anywhere near his price.

value? $1500 max. and thats being generous at $300 a coin.

derryb · February 21, 2015 7:40AM

<< 

<< Regardless of what the mint is currently saying, they made an error - they used the wrong die. It will demand a nice premium. 99 W uncircs. (actual mintage unknown) are stronger than ever. The two are similar in the fact that a wrong die was used. If it turns out that just the one wrong collar die was used, the narrow reeds will be sought after by collectors. If this is the case I see pricing on the narrow reeds eventually mirroring the $5 W uncirc. >>

You are assuming they made an error. You are assuming they used the wrong collar.

They have STATED that they produced several thousand of each type. They did not say they used the narrow reed collar in error. Who knows, it may be a transition year, they may use narrow reeds going forward....

This is NOT like the 1999 "W", where proof dies were used in error. This is NOT like the 2008 reverse 2007 where the wrong reverse die was used. Both were admittedly errors by the USM.

Not this one guys - now if they only made a few hundred......maybe you have some rarity that some may want to acquire. But several thousand...........not worth twice the wide reed. >>

They used a different die than what they have been using since they created the $5 AGE in 1986. Most likely they used a 2008 (only year) $5 gold buffalo collar die on a run of $5 gold eagles. Mint made an error in die selection just as they did with the 1999-W AGE and the 2008 ASE. Mint spokesman will be corrected on what he released. Note that the 1999 W error is estimated in the thousands as well as the 2009 ASE. Mintage of all three errors is probably the same as the life of the die used.

Raufus · February 21, 2015 7:42AM

I think that the seller simply does not understand that the 001-005 just means the first five coins of his submission not the first 5 graded.

Wonder if any clueless buyers will bite.

My theory on the cause of the Narrow Reeding found on some 2015 1/10th oz. gold eagles CONFIRMED!

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