You have no obligation whatsoever to inform a professional dealer of a coin that he has under listed. In your case, he was unaware of the 1914/13 for three coins. Obviously, he did not pay 1914/13 money for those coins either. So, in this case you would have been just cherrypicking a cherrypicker. The dealer in this case is a PIG and you should out him as such on this forum.
OINK >>
You are probably right about one thing. The dealer probably didn't pay up for the variety. But it would seem that he was not aware, so until after Type2 told him he was not a cherrypicker. Afterwards he probably went around telling everyone how great of a dealer he was that he got these 3 coins for a song which probably makes him a d***, but not a cherrypicker.
<<You are probably right about one thing. The dealer probably didn't pay up for the variety. But it would seem that he was not aware, so until after Type2 told him he was not a cherrypicker. Afterwards he probably went around telling everyone how great of a dealer he was that he got these 3 coins for a song which probably makes him a d***, but not a cherrypicker.
Yeah, you are right he was not consciously a cherrypicker. But he is an incompetent and unconscious dealer. Not the kind that you want to do business with nor trust.
A dealer with morals would grade the 1893-s and pay a fair price. If the dealer had doubts as to whether it was authentic, a contingency sale agreement could be made based on grade and authenticity.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>I see nothing wrong with cherrypicking. If you put in the time doing the research, why shouldn't you be able to use that knowledge to your advantage.
(I should note that I am referring to eBay listings, dealers inventories, etc.) >>
I completely agree. As a dealer, anyone is welcome to "cherrypick me", as long as they don't take up too much time at my table when I have customers who could use that seat. It's not different than someone buying an under graded coin (in their opinion) from your inventory, or buying a coin that they feel has some extra value due to its toning.
I should add that there is no such thing as cherrypicking a customer. If you are an expert on something and someone asks you "what will you give me?", or if they quote you a price which is absurdly low, any reputable dealer should pay them at least a low wholesale price. That's just good morals.
I am the one who spent hundreds of hours studying far beyond what any reference book has in it to ID coins. I am the one who built my own photo archives of different varieties and in Different die states to learn as much as I could as to how to recognize a given variety. I am the one who has more knowledge of certain coins and often referred to as the most knowledgeable person on a variety year or mint because of my finds.
So if your not willing to make this kind of effort - your loss.
Now the few dealers I respect - if i saw something they had and did not know it, I would point it out to them, and if it was a coin I wanted to buy, I know they would be more than generous in their offer.
WS
Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
IMO a rip is a rip. Whether someone ripped a collector or dealer makes no difference - somebody got a rip and somebody ended up giving away an item. I am not defending or condemning picking, it is what it is.
As posters here have pointed out there are opportunities out there to cherry pick and bragged about their exploits in this area. People need to do their homework on their material. I would have loved to see the expression on that dealers face he had dodged a rip, sort of like one getting a lucky bounce and recovering their own fumble. I would put it on the back table so fast too....no way that guy would get it.
Wow!!! What the OP describes is BS! Collectors have a huge uphill battle to begin with as far as finding nice coins that are not marked up to the gills. Anytime you can find a good deal or find a nice cherrypick, pay for it and kindly walk away.
<< <i>Does the dealer specifically tell the seller that his 93-S Morgan was only worth 30 bucks? If so, then just as I stated above that's not a cherrypick, it's fraud. Or, does he instead say, "You have 100 Morgan dollars--I'll pay $3000.00 for the lot."? If it's the second scenario, then yes, IMO, end of story. >>
New components seem to get layered into this scenario. Let's put it a different way.
You are a professional coin dealer with a brick and mortar shop. Your current buying price for circ Morgan dollars in any quantity is $20 each. A non-collector comes into your store and would like to sell 100 circ Morgan dollars that they legally own. You notice that one of the Morgans is an 1893-S that the dealer can sell immediately for $4000. You gather from your brief conversation with them that they are not knowledgable about coins. What do you do? >>
Probably explain that the 93-S is a high dollar coin currently selling at around 4K and offer either to buy it at around 3500 or to broker a sale for her...and then offer her around 2K for the rest. However, although that is what I personally would do I have no problem whatsoever with someone else offering a lot price including the 93-S.
By the same token, however, I would as a collector also explain to a dealer if he were selling a rare bust half die marriage at a common price--and have done just exactly that. In return, he usually called me for a first look anytime he bought a new collection. As it turned out, I've gotten many more great buys from my local dealer this way than I ever would have in a one time rip. Karma rules.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
The Dealer in OP's story is a dishonest douche. What's the point in making a deal if you're not going to abide by it? I'd buy a hundred dollar coin from him and hand him a $10 next time.
Cherry picking is fine with Sellers who either "should know" what they have or don't care to scrutinize their stock. Similarly, if you buy a coin at auction where a room full of people had the chance to look at the coin offered and you end up the top bidder (regardless of the purchase price) I'm fine with that.
A few months back there was a Trade Dollar separated from it's owner on an E-Bay listing by someone who had no idea what they had (a BIN). Whether that Buyer ever did the right thing and "squared up" with the Seller or not, I don't know. That's not Cherry picking. It still sticks in my craw.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
Cherry picking is what keeps me interested in bust quarters. So many varieties, so many raw coins, so many dealers who don't take the time or effort to attribute. Makes going to a coin show way more fun for me. It also gives me something to do on eBay when I am bored
There were a number of stories about Morgan VAMs on this site that got cherrypicked on ebay, like the 88-O "scarface". Or the Ryder 6 Vermont copper that an antique dealer had his mind blown as it hit $30K in the last few seconds. Are there cases of monster rips where the buyers are obscenely wealthy and conscienceless rippers? How does the ripee feel once they hear about it? Any two people have a right to make contracts according to the law, if you make a contract to become an indentured slave it is null and void if challenged. Contracts require mutually aware individuals and are valid as long at there is no fraud involved. Personally I would contact the seller if I found that I ripped them and offer extra money, it would be good for business. If remains a matter of proportion and reasonableness, not of playing tricks and being indifferent to the consequences of our business decisions. Being totally frank and open with other honest collectors and dealers is good for the hobby, which should come before profits. Dealing with dishonest or unscrupulous people other ethical or business rules may apply.
I am a FAN of Cherrypicking. I have done it too many times to count. Knowledge is power! Dealers and auction houses should know what they are selling. If they have made the decision that it isn't worth it to know then I will celebrate.
Bought for $45. Sold for $1,750 at a GC auction that I started at $1 with no reserve. Top Pop by 7 points. Only Mint State Example Known. An okay toner as well.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>I know how I feel, I think it's ok but some think its wrong. How do you feel about it? This is why I started not telling sellers what I found. I went to a show in Long Beach and sat at a dealers table. I found 3 buffalos 1914/3 and I told him if I tell you something can I buy one of these coins at what you have them priced at? He says yes so I told him what i found and then he looks at them, turns and them put's them in back of him on a table and tells me they are not for sale. I told him we had a deal he looks at me and says they're not for sale. l got up said thanks and walked away. After that I never almost never tell any one what I picked off them. If i tell them most of the time thats what they are thinking he's picking me or if i dont tell them i'm a jerk for not telling them. I guess i will live with that lable as a cherrypicker. >>
You have no obligation whatsoever to inform a professional dealer of a coin that he has under listed. In your case, he was unaware of the 1914/13 for three coins. Obviously, he did not pay 1914/13 money for those coins either. So, in this case you would have been just cherrypicking a cherrypicker. The dealer in this case is a PIG and you should out him as such on this forum.
OINK >>
Yes-by all means out this dude so we can ALL go cherrypick the nice man!
<< <i>It is unethical to cherrypick a non collector who would have no chance of knowing what they have. In the case of dealers it can be a different story. If I have a good relationship with a dealer, I will tell him what he has, and if I need it I will work with him, and will hope that he will work with me. They almost always do work with me.
On the other hand there are some dealers who deserve what they get. If a dealer has tried to rip me off in the past, I feel no obligation to work with him. Worse yet, when I was younger, I would spot something I needed, tell the dealer about it, and then he would refuse to sell it to me or even refuse to negotiate a price with me even though that price was higher that his initial asking price. To me it's "open season" on dealers like that. They are just "takers" who don't give anything back to people who are honest with them. >>
I like this response very much and tend to follow this when buying coins. I have told non-collectors and non-dealers about coins they have marked wrong like a 1913 T2 as a T1 buffalo but dealers that have been around a long time or that have not dealt fairly with me or others I know are open game for me. This may be wrong to some but whatever as it works for me.
Cherrypicking is not a way to make money (at least with varieties.) I think if you averaged out the time spent looking V.S. the value of a cherrypicker's finds, he probably isn't making more than minimum wage. If a cherrypicker wants to spend countless hours looking for varieties, he's earned it.
The difference between a dealer and a collector is that a dealer isn't cherrypicking, they're buying coins for "what they're worth", and are expected to treat customers fairly. Cherrypickers, on the other hand, are customers who look through a dealer's stock of coins being offered for sale, and find coins that are undervalued--the dealer is getting what the coin's are worth as coins without the variety, and are losing nothing but are in fact making money (presuming they paid wholesale for the coins they're selling for retail.) Cherrypickers might spend all day looking and find nothing (Is the dealer going to pay them for the time they wasted looking through his coins? I think not), or they might find 20 coins in a row. It doesn't matter since the dealer is selling the coin for what it's worth for him to sell it. If the dealer thought it was worth the money to search his inventory, why wouldn't he hire a cherrypicker to do that for him and pay him $10 an hour? Some dealers do, but most wouldn't find it worth the trouble. Cherrypickers are definitely not ripping anyone off.
<< <i>Cherrypicking is not a way to make money (at least with varieties.) I think if you averaged out the time spent looking V.S. the value of a cherrypicker's finds, he probably isn't making more than minimum wage. If a cherrypicker wants to spend countless hours looking for varieties, he's earned it.
The difference between a dealer and a collector is that a dealer isn't cherrypicking, they're buying coins for "what they're worth", and are expected to treat customers fairly. Cherrypickers, on the other hand, are customers who look through a dealer's stock of coins being offered for sale, and find coins that are undervalued--the dealer is getting what the coin's are worth as coins without the variety, and are losing nothing but are in fact making money (presuming they paid wholesale for the coins they're selling for retail.) Cherrypickers might spend all day looking and find nothing (Is the dealer going to pay them for the time they wasted looking through his coins? I think not), or they might find 20 coins in a row. It doesn't matter since the dealer is selling the coin for what it's worth for him to sell it. If the dealer thought it was worth the money to search his inventory, why wouldn't he hire a cherrypicker to do that for him and pay him $10 an hour? Some dealers do, but most wouldn't find it worth the trouble. Cherrypickers are definitely not ripping anyone off. >>
If you purchase it for the price marked it's yours. If you are the high bidder at auction it's yours. You may call it Cherrypicking but it's still yours. You don't go into a car dealership and offer more than sticker price
<< <i>If you purchase it for the price marked it's yours. If you are the high bidder at auction it's yours. You may call it Cherrypicking but it's still yours. You don't go into a car dealership and offer more than sticker price >>
I have paid more than sticker price for a car before but it was a limited edition. Hum how does that correlate to coins that are rare?
<< I would put it on the back table so fast too....no way that guy would get it.>>
So, Cougar, how much better are you than eBay buyers that retract their bids???????? Please tell us your real business name as you have outed yourself as a sympathetic dealer.
With what I collect, it is not possible to cherry pick. The coin is either nice for the grade, or it isn't The price is either reasonable, or it isn't.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
"Cherrypicking is not a way to make money (at least with varieties.) I think if you averaged out the time spent looking V.S. the value of a cherrypicker's finds, he probably isn't making more than minimum wage. If a cherrypicker wants to spend countless hours looking for varieties, he's earned it."
Maybe but it's FUN if you're finding things. Used to be much, much easier-I made some decent money at it as well as completing some very tough sets, like my complete set of Washington Quarter doubled dies in AU and Mint State-all the biggies. Gotta put up with all the really nasty dealers you're sure to encounter (like the one mentioned) but it was worth it IMO.
<< <i>Everyone cherrypicks, some by grade and some by variety or toning or whatever they like.
People at the supermarket don't close their eyes and randomly grab 5 apples out of fairness. They pick carefully to get what they want. That's how it works, the person before you probably picked what they liked best. >>
EXACTLY!!! PCGS,NGC,ANACS... they all "cherrypick" by grading a coin!
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We should put on a tag that says I'm a Cherrypicker and see how we get treated. That will be crazy to see... Any takers? Let's video it and put it on youtube.
Maybe I should have let this thread die, but here goes. I was in one of our local B&M yesterday always looking for nice coins. On the dealers counter was a blue box of recent returnees from PCGS. All of the coins were MS63. All of the coins were 1923 from an original roll that was sent in. First coin out of the box was a 1923 VAM 1C2. I have turned over gazillions of 1923's looking for one of these all to no avail. The die break is very heavy. Anyway I am on my way to FUN next week wherein I will get in attributed holder. Price paid was for a common 23. Dealer has told me in the past he doesn't care what I find and have at it. None of the other 23's suffered any of the anomalies.
I think it is a collectors duty to cherrypick a dealer. I wouldnt tell him directly what had just happened, but i might let the word leak out. Kinda like a matte proof Lincoln I cherried from a particular loud mouthed dealer in Upstate NY. It graded 65RB. I paid $12, down from the $12.75 he was asking.
I used to hang out a lot at a local coin store and I saw this happen time and time again. Someone brings in a bag of coins to sell and the owner goes thru them separating them out and comes across a rare better coin that is worth hundreds of dollars and makes a fair buy offer in my opinion and the deal walks out the door. The seller thinks he is getting hosed and decides to keep for a while and do research.
The dealer treats everything as common and gets the deal everytime. Go figure.
So just rip and go, explain nothing to no one.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
There were a few-a VERY few-honest, ethical dealers I wouldn't cherry. The rest? The nastier the better-if you could even get into their stock that is. You quickly avoid these guys or the ones that cause a scene at a show-it's a waste of time and bad for the blood pressure. I particularly enjoyed 'picking those who always overgraded/overpriced/mis-attributed imaginary die varieties. No shortage of those at most any show.
<< <i>I used to hang out a lot at a local coin store and I saw this happen time and time again. Someone brings in a bag of coins to sell and the owner goes thru them separating them out and comes across a rare better coin that is worth hundreds of dollars and makes a fair buy offer in my opinion and the deal walks out the door. The seller thinks he is getting hosed and decides to keep for a while and do research.
The dealer treats everything as common and gets the deal everytime. Go figure.
So just rip and go, explain nothing to no one. >>
When you have something that is apparently worth a lot more than you thought it was, it's only good business sense to get more than one opinion/offer about what it's true value is.
A friend of mine who's a top registry collector likes telling the story of another local bullion/coin dealer who treats dreck Morgans with disdain.
This collector recently paid the highest price ever for a particular VAM. The one he cherried from the bullion dealer he told me that he even said to him, "Hey, this is a VAM". The dealer said, "I don't care about them. It's bullion".
Well, in fact, Dave didn't care and Larry did. Larry paid nearly $40K for the same variety(upgrade recently), and sold his "cherry pick " (original cost $25) now slabbed, for over $5K.
Nobody got hurt in the posting of this information.
I see no need to tell a seller that I Cherrypicked them. Why make someone feel like they just got whooped? Chances are the seller is already pleased with the sale. Now why would I want to go and mess that up? That said, whenever any numismatist asks me to help them understand the potential value of a coin they own, I just tell them the truth. If I recognize their coin to be a rare variety, or a valuable rarity, I just tell them. When I am offered the opportunity to purchase a coin from a numismatic professional, I always assume that they have already had ample opportunity to examine the item and need no additional input from me.
<< <i> I told him we had a deal he looks at me and says they're not for sale. >>
You should have bought them both and then offered to sell one back to him explaining what they were. >>
I do what I say and hope that others do the same. When he said that we had a deal I did not think he would pull that one on me. But it's water under the bridge and made me the picker I am today. Just crazy how much money you can make doing this and if this guy would have just kept his word things may have been different with me. But Now I keep a zipped lip and buy what I see and do what I do. I tryed to help once and thats all it took. I know a lot of dealers are not like this and there word is good. But I never tryed it again.
This could have been a win win. I buy one or two at the price marked and show you what you have in you case that is worth more money. Now you get more for what you have and i'm happy that I got a good deal. There is so much to look for and I think that is why this is so big and dealers don't do it or do it much. It take a lot of time till you get it after that you can just see them sitting there and you need to make that choice if you want it or leave it there for the next picker. I let it sit so the next one "picker" get's a shot at it, I think it works better this way. But thats just me dumb Type2 Thinking.
<< <i>We should put on a tag that says I'm a Cherrypicker and see how we get treated. That will be crazy to see... Any takers? Let's video it and put it on youtube. >>
<< <i>We should put on a tag that says I'm a Cherrypicker and see how we get treated. That will be crazy to see... Any takers? Let's video it and put it on youtube. >>
>>
Yes. And also have him equipped with Google Glass , and a helmet mounted GoPro camera for a live satellite feed. .
<< <i>A friend of mine who's a top registry collector likes telling the story of another local bullion/coin dealer who treats dreck Morgans with disdain.
This collector recently paid the highest price ever for a particular VAM. The one he cherried from the bullion dealer he told me that he even said to him, "Hey, this is a VAM". The dealer said, "I don't care about them. It's bullion".
Well, in fact, Dave didn't care and Larry did. Larry paid nearly $40K for the same variety(upgrade recently), and sold his "cherry pick " (original cost $25) now slabbed, for over $5K.
Nobody got hurt in the posting of this information. >>
<< <i>When you have something that is apparently worth a lot more than you thought it was, it's only good business sense to get more than one opinion/offer about what it's true value is. >>
So if a picker tells me they just found three rare XYZ variety pieces in my box of widgets... it is then good business sense to withhold sale until I get other opinions/offers...good to know!
<< <i>When you have something that is apparently worth a lot more than you thought it was, it's only good business sense to get more than one opinion/offer about what it's true value is. >>
So if a picker tells me they just found three rare XYZ variety pieces in my box of widgets... it is then good business sense to withhold sale until I get other opinions/offers...good to know! >>
In the post to which I responded the dealer made a cash offer for a coin thereby putting a value on it. The seller has the choice to accept the offer or shop it around. To me it would make sense to get another offer. The tales of sellers refusing to sell once they find out that they have something valuable suggests those sellers feel the same way.
If the picker told you that those XYZ variety pieces were worth more than you were asking would you check them out? What if he told you that they were worth a thousand times more than your asking price. What would your good business sense tell you then? Of course the utilization of good business sense is entirely optional. Apparently the dealer in the OP thought it was good business sense to do so. I doubt his action/s as described cost him much business.
It's up to you to analyze each transaction and apply your business sense accordingly.
<< <i>We should put on a tag that says I'm a Cherrypicker and see how we get treated. That will be crazy to see... Any takers? Let's video it and put it on youtube. >>
>>
I think that the Cherry-Picked tag could bring a lot of people into a dealers B&M.....LOL
Buying on a guess, being wrong, then returning the item is bad form.
Just because there may be a return policy it doesn't mean you should attempt to rob a person, then if it turns out they are broke, hit them up for free cab fare to get back home.
Buying on a guess, being wrong, then returning the item is bad form.
Just because there may be a return policy it doesn't mean you should attempt to rob a person, then if it turns out they are broke, hit them up for free cab fare to get back home. >>
I didn't think this thread was about returning items that a CP misjudged, altho with eBay's somewhat generous return policy it's always a real possibility. Then again it's not much different from buying bullion and then returning it when the spot market tanks.
I don't return any coins I pick, When I first started picking I bought a lot of coins that where not Very good cherrys and keept every one of them. After that I could see the good Cherry's from the bad one's, It's all good.
Comments
<< <i>
You have no obligation whatsoever to inform a professional dealer of a coin that he has under listed. In your case, he was unaware of the 1914/13 for three coins. Obviously, he did not pay 1914/13 money for those coins either. So, in this case you would have been just cherrypicking a cherrypicker. The dealer in this case is a PIG and you should out him as such on this forum.
OINK >>
You are probably right about one thing. The dealer probably didn't pay up for the variety. But it would seem that he was not aware, so until after Type2 told him he was not a cherrypicker. Afterwards he probably went around telling everyone how great of a dealer he was that he got these 3 coins for a song which probably makes him a d***, but not a cherrypicker.
My Ebay Store
Yeah, you are right he was not consciously a cherrypicker. But he is an incompetent and unconscious dealer. Not the kind that you want to do business with nor trust.
OINK
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>I see nothing wrong with cherrypicking. If you put in the time doing the research, why shouldn't you be able to use that knowledge to your advantage.
(I should note that I am referring to eBay listings, dealers inventories, etc.) >>
I completely agree. As a dealer, anyone is welcome to "cherrypick me", as long as they don't take up too much time at my table when I have customers who could use that seat. It's not different than someone buying an under graded coin (in their opinion) from your inventory, or buying a coin that they feel has some extra value due to its toning.
I should add that there is no such thing as cherrypicking a customer. If you are an expert on something and someone asks you "what will you give me?", or if they quote you a price which is absurdly low, any reputable dealer should pay them at least a low wholesale price. That's just good morals.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I am the one who spent hundreds of hours studying far beyond what any reference book has in it to ID coins.
I am the one who built my own photo archives of different varieties and in Different die states to learn as much as I could as to how to recognize a given variety.
I am the one who has more knowledge of certain coins and often referred to as the most knowledgeable person on a variety year or mint because of my finds.
So if your not willing to make this kind of effort - your loss.
Now the few dealers I respect - if i saw something they had and did not know it, I would point it out to them, and if it was a coin I wanted to buy, I know they would be more than generous in their offer.
WS
As posters here have pointed out there are opportunities out there to cherry pick and bragged about their exploits in this area. People need to do their homework on their material. I would have loved to see the expression on that dealers face he had dodged a rip, sort of like one getting a lucky bounce and recovering their own fumble. I would put it on the back table so fast too....no way that guy would get it.
Chris' Complete Lincoln Variety Set 1909-date
<< <i>
<< <i>Does the dealer specifically tell the seller that his 93-S Morgan was only worth 30 bucks? If so, then just as I stated above that's not a cherrypick, it's fraud. Or, does he instead say, "You have 100 Morgan dollars--I'll pay $3000.00 for the lot."? If it's the second scenario, then yes, IMO, end of story. >>
New components seem to get layered into this scenario. Let's put it a different way.
You are a professional coin dealer with a brick and mortar shop.
Your current buying price for circ Morgan dollars in any quantity is $20 each.
A non-collector comes into your store and would like to sell 100 circ Morgan dollars that they legally own.
You notice that one of the Morgans is an 1893-S that the dealer can sell immediately for $4000.
You gather from your brief conversation with them that they are not knowledgable about coins.
What do you do? >>
Probably explain that the 93-S is a high dollar coin currently selling at around 4K and offer either to buy it at around 3500 or to broker a sale for her...and then offer her around 2K for the rest. However, although that is what I personally would do I have no problem whatsoever with someone else offering a lot price including the 93-S.
By the same token, however, I would as a collector also explain to a dealer if he were selling a rare bust half die marriage at a common price--and have done just exactly that. In return, he usually called me for a first look anytime he bought a new collection. As it turned out, I've gotten many more great buys from my local dealer this way than I ever would have in a one time rip. Karma rules.
Cherry picking is fine with Sellers who either "should know" what they have or don't care to scrutinize their stock. Similarly, if you buy a coin at auction where a room full of people had the chance to look at the coin offered and you end up the top bidder (regardless of the purchase price) I'm fine with that.
A few months back there was a Trade Dollar separated from it's owner on an E-Bay listing by someone who had no idea what they had (a BIN). Whether that Buyer ever did the right thing and "squared up" with the Seller or not, I don't know. That's not Cherry picking. It still sticks in my craw.
Bought for $45.
Sold for $1,750 at a GC auction that I started at $1 with no reserve.
Top Pop by 7 points.
Only Mint State Example Known.
An okay toner as well.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>
<< <i>I know how I feel, I think it's ok but some think its wrong. How do you feel about it? This is why I started not telling sellers what I found. I went to a show in Long Beach and sat at a dealers table. I found 3 buffalos 1914/3 and I told him if I tell you something can I buy one of these coins at what you have them priced at? He says yes so I told him what i found and then he looks at them, turns and them put's them in back of him on a table and tells me they are not for sale. I told him we had a deal he looks at me and says they're not for sale. l got up said thanks and walked away. After that I never almost never tell any one what I picked off them. If i tell them most of the time thats what they are thinking he's picking me or if i dont tell them i'm a jerk for not telling them. I guess i will live with that lable as a cherrypicker. >>
You have no obligation whatsoever to inform a professional dealer of a coin that he has under listed. In your case, he was unaware of the 1914/13 for three coins. Obviously, he did not pay 1914/13 money for those coins either. So, in this case you would have been just cherrypicking a cherrypicker. The dealer in this case is a PIG and you should out him as such on this forum.
OINK >>
Yes-by all means out this dude so we can ALL go cherrypick the nice man!
<< <i>It is unethical to cherrypick a non collector who would have no chance of knowing what they have. In the case of dealers it can be a different story. If I have a good relationship with a dealer, I will tell him what he has, and if I need it I will work with him, and will hope that he will work with me. They almost always do work with me.
On the other hand there are some dealers who deserve what they get. If a dealer has tried to rip me off in the past, I feel no obligation to work with him. Worse yet, when I was younger, I would spot something I needed, tell the dealer about it, and then he would refuse to sell it to me or even refuse to negotiate a price with me even though that price was higher that his initial asking price. To me it's "open season" on dealers like that. They are just "takers" who don't give anything back to people who are honest with them. >>
I like this response very much and tend to follow this when buying coins. I have told non-collectors and non-dealers about coins they have marked wrong like a 1913 T2 as a T1 buffalo but dealers that have been around a long time or that have not dealt fairly with me or others I know are open game for me. This may be wrong to some but whatever as it works for me.
The difference between a dealer and a collector is that a dealer isn't cherrypicking, they're buying coins for "what they're worth", and are expected to treat customers fairly. Cherrypickers, on the other hand, are customers who look through a dealer's stock of coins being offered for sale, and find coins that are undervalued--the dealer is getting what the coin's are worth as coins without the variety, and are losing nothing but are in fact making money (presuming they paid wholesale for the coins they're selling for retail.) Cherrypickers might spend all day looking and find nothing (Is the dealer going to pay them for the time they wasted looking through his coins? I think not), or they might find 20 coins in a row. It doesn't matter since the dealer is selling the coin for what it's worth for him to sell it. If the dealer thought it was worth the money to search his inventory, why wouldn't he hire a cherrypicker to do that for him and pay him $10 an hour? Some dealers do, but most wouldn't find it worth the trouble. Cherrypickers are definitely not ripping anyone off.
<< <i>Cherrypicking is not a way to make money (at least with varieties.) I think if you averaged out the time spent looking V.S. the value of a cherrypicker's finds, he probably isn't making more than minimum wage. If a cherrypicker wants to spend countless hours looking for varieties, he's earned it.
The difference between a dealer and a collector is that a dealer isn't cherrypicking, they're buying coins for "what they're worth", and are expected to treat customers fairly. Cherrypickers, on the other hand, are customers who look through a dealer's stock of coins being offered for sale, and find coins that are undervalued--the dealer is getting what the coin's are worth as coins without the variety, and are losing nothing but are in fact making money (presuming they paid wholesale for the coins they're selling for retail.) Cherrypickers might spend all day looking and find nothing (Is the dealer going to pay them for the time they wasted looking through his coins? I think not), or they might find 20 coins in a row. It doesn't matter since the dealer is selling the coin for what it's worth for him to sell it. If the dealer thought it was worth the money to search his inventory, why wouldn't he hire a cherrypicker to do that for him and pay him $10 an hour? Some dealers do, but most wouldn't find it worth the trouble. Cherrypickers are definitely not ripping anyone off. >>
Great post
Lafayette Grading Set
<< <i>If you purchase it for the price marked it's yours. If you are the high bidder at auction it's yours. You may call it Cherrypicking but it's still yours. You don't go into a car dealership and offer more than sticker price
I have paid more than sticker price for a car before but it was a limited edition. Hum how does that correlate to coins that are rare?
So, Cougar, how much better are you than eBay buyers that retract their bids???????? Please tell us your real business name as you have outed yourself as a sympathetic dealer.
OINK
The price is either reasonable, or it isn't.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Maybe but it's FUN if you're finding things. Used to be much, much easier-I made some decent money at it as well as completing some very tough sets, like my complete set of Washington Quarter doubled dies in AU and Mint State-all the biggies. Gotta put up with all the really nasty dealers you're sure to encounter (like the one mentioned) but it was worth it IMO.
<< <i>Everyone cherrypicks, some by grade and some by variety or toning or whatever they like.
People at the supermarket don't close their eyes and randomly grab 5 apples out of fairness. They pick carefully to get what they want.
That's how it works, the person before you probably picked what they liked best. >>
EXACTLY!!! PCGS,NGC,ANACS... they all "cherrypick" by grading a coin!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Hoard the keys.
Maybe I should have let this thread die, but here goes. I was in one of our local B&M yesterday always looking for nice coins. On the dealers counter was a blue box
of recent returnees from PCGS. All of the coins were MS63. All of the coins were 1923 from an original roll that was sent in. First coin out of the box was a 1923 VAM 1C2. I have turned over gazillions of 1923's looking for one of these all to no avail. The die break is very heavy. Anyway I am on my way to FUN next week wherein I will get in attributed holder. Price paid was for a common 23. Dealer has told me in the past he doesn't care what I find and have at it. None of the other 23's suffered any of the anomalies.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The dealer treats everything as common and gets the deal everytime. Go figure.
So just rip and go, explain nothing to no one.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
No shortage of those at most any show.
<< <i>I used to hang out a lot at a local coin store and I saw this happen time and time again. Someone brings in a bag of coins to sell and the owner goes thru them separating them out and comes across a rare better coin that is worth hundreds of dollars and makes a fair buy offer in my opinion and the deal walks out the door. The seller thinks he is getting hosed and decides to keep for a while and do research.
The dealer treats everything as common and gets the deal everytime. Go figure.
So just rip and go, explain nothing to no one. >>
When you have something that is apparently worth a lot more than you thought it was, it's only good business sense to get more than one opinion/offer about what it's true value is.
This collector recently paid the highest price ever for a particular VAM. The one he cherried from the bullion dealer he told me that he even said to him, "Hey, this is a VAM". The dealer said, "I don't care about them. It's bullion".
Well, in fact, Dave didn't care and Larry did. Larry paid nearly $40K for the same variety(upgrade recently), and sold his "cherry pick " (original cost $25) now slabbed, for over $5K.
Nobody got hurt in the posting of this information.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Why make someone feel like they just got whooped?
Chances are the seller is already pleased with the sale.
Now why would I want to go and mess that up?
That said, whenever any numismatist asks me to help them understand the potential value of a coin they own, I just tell them the truth. If I recognize their coin to be a rare variety, or a valuable rarity, I just tell them.
When I am offered the opportunity to purchase a coin from a numismatic professional, I always assume that they have already had ample opportunity to examine the item and need no additional input from me.
<< <i> I told him we had a deal he looks at me and says they're not for sale. >>
You should have bought them both and then offered to sell one back to him explaining what they were.
<< <i>
<< <i> I told him we had a deal he looks at me and says they're not for sale. >>
You should have bought them both and then offered to sell one back to him explaining what they were. >>
I do what I say and hope that others do the same. When he said that we had a deal I did not think he would pull that one on me. But it's water under the bridge and made me the picker I am today. Just crazy how much money you can make doing this and if this guy would have just kept his word things may have been different with me. But Now I keep a zipped lip and buy what I see and do what I do. I tryed to help once and thats all it took. I know a lot of dealers are not like this and there word is good. But I never tryed it again.
This could have been a win win. I buy one or two at the price marked and show you what you have in you case that is worth more money. Now you get more for what you have and i'm happy that I got a good deal. There is so much to look for and I think that is why this is so big and dealers don't do it or do it much. It take a lot of time till you get it after that you can just see them sitting there and you need to make that choice if you want it or leave it there for the next picker. I let it sit so the next one "picker" get's a shot at it, I think it works better this way. But thats just me dumb Type2 Thinking.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>We should put on a tag that says I'm a Cherrypicker and see how we get treated. That will be crazy to see... Any takers? Let's video it and put it on youtube. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>We should put on a tag that says I'm a Cherrypicker and see how we get treated. That will be crazy to see... Any takers? Let's video it and put it on youtube. >>
Yes. And also have him equipped with Google Glass , and a helmet mounted GoPro camera for a live satellite feed. .
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>A friend of mine who's a top registry collector likes telling the story of another local bullion/coin dealer who treats dreck Morgans with disdain.
This collector recently paid the highest price ever for a particular VAM. The one he cherried from the bullion dealer he told me that he even said to him, "Hey, this is a VAM". The dealer said, "I don't care about them. It's bullion".
Well, in fact, Dave didn't care and Larry did. Larry paid nearly $40K for the same variety(upgrade recently), and sold his "cherry pick " (original cost $25) now slabbed, for over $5K.
Nobody got hurt in the posting of this information. >>
Larry's ok.
<< <i>When you have something that is apparently worth a lot more than you thought it was, it's only good business sense to get more than one opinion/offer about what it's true value is. >>
So if a picker tells me they just found three rare XYZ variety pieces in my box of widgets... it is then good business sense to withhold sale until I get other opinions/offers...good to know!
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>When you have something that is apparently worth a lot more than you thought it was, it's only good business sense to get more than one opinion/offer about what it's true value is. >>
So if a picker tells me they just found three rare XYZ variety pieces in my box of widgets... it is then good business sense to withhold sale until I get other opinions/offers...good to know! >>
In the post to which I responded the dealer made a cash offer for a coin thereby putting a value on it. The seller has the choice to accept the offer or shop it around. To me it would make sense to get another offer. The tales of sellers refusing to sell once they find out that they have something valuable suggests those sellers feel the same way.
If the picker told you that those XYZ variety pieces were worth more than you were asking would you check them out? What if he told you that they were worth a thousand times more than your asking price. What would your good business sense tell you then? Of course the utilization of good business sense is entirely optional. Apparently the dealer in the OP thought it was good business sense to do so. I doubt his action/s as described cost him much business.
It's up to you to analyze each transaction and apply your business sense accordingly.
<< <i>
<< <i>We should put on a tag that says I'm a Cherrypicker and see how we get treated. That will be crazy to see... Any takers? Let's video it and put it on youtube. >>
I think that the Cherry-Picked tag could bring a lot of people into a dealers B&M.....LOL
OINK
Buying on a guess, being wrong, then returning the item is bad form.
Just because there may be a return policy it doesn't mean you should attempt to rob a person, then if it turns out they are broke, hit them up for free cab fare to get back home.
<< <i>I feel the picker should keep the duds.
Buying on a guess, being wrong, then returning the item is bad form.
Just because there may be a return policy it doesn't mean you should attempt to rob a person, then if it turns out they are broke, hit them up for free cab fare to get back home. >>
I didn't think this thread was about returning items that a CP misjudged, altho with eBay's somewhat generous return policy it's always a real possibility. Then again it's not much different from buying bullion and then returning it when the spot market tanks.
Hoard the keys.