53 1909VDB MPL HOARD (UPDATE DISCUSSION)

SteveSteve Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭
edited January 8, 2017 5:30PM in PCGS Set Registry Forum
Anyone know the current status of this hoard or wish to comment about it?
Steve :)





I have updated this thread because a couple of members commented on it in the last couple of days. If you are NOT familiar with the subject, please read the entire thread. If you ARE familiar with the subject, please read the latest comments at the bottom of this thread. This is a story that needs to be resolved for the benefit of our hobby and for all Lincoln cent collectors. Steveimage



=====================================================



The owner of the 53 certified 1909VDB matte proof Lincoln cents has apparently hired Paul Schiemer to sell his complete collection as ONE LOT. An advertisement appears on page 29 of the November monthly issue of COIN WORLD showing pictures of the obverses and reverses of all the coins in their PCGS, NGC and the 1 ICG holders. Last month Coin World published an article about this collector and his hoard. I have not seen any other mentions of this in the numismatic press until this advertisement. Given the fact that only about 200 of these coins have been certified by all the grading services since 1986 and some of these certified coins have obviously been "cracked out" and resubmitted, I would think this collector is attempting to sell about 35% of ALL the certified coins that are known to exist. Given that the hobby generally will not accept an example of this coin if it is RAW or doesn't have the 3 key diagnostics for verification it will be interesting to see if anyone will buy this collection and if they will then make their purchase public. If any of the MPL experts here have any comments please let's hear them. Make an effort to see this color ad. While the pictures are small, maybe someone can "blow them up" with clarity. I sure can't.

Steveimage
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Comments

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭
    It would be very interesting (especially for those who have had prior experience in viewing, owning and evaluating 1909 VDB MPL cents) to have the opportunity to view (in hand, under good lighting, with no time limitations) all 53 coins in this LOT prior to the sale of same.

    Is it going to be a sale via private treaty with interested buyers submitting bids and the seller simply choosing whichever bid pleases him most, or is there going to be an auction of the LOT where interested bidders can compete with each other to place the high bid on the LOT?
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 12,064 ✭✭✭✭
    I personally think the owner is choosing a very bad way to sell these. They would bring much more sold separately over a long period of time.

    JMHO
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭
    Jon,
    Most knowledgeable collectors would agree with you. But this situation is UNIQUE. I believe the owner can't be asking more than $2 to $3 million for the whole collection. Don't you think that someone like Laura could (would) plop down that amount of money in order to get even more publicity for LEGEND and at the same time better legitimize the collection. If she took it, she is smart enough to sell most of the coins, (ie) PR64 & PR65 slowly over time at FAIR market prices. Let's see what happens.
    Steve image

    P.S. I really don't think the collection is currently worth as much as I put in the range above, but I do think this seller is eccentric enough to think he can get that amount. I also think someone like Laura is savy enough to look into the future, weigh everything, and make a good business decision for her company.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 12,064 ✭✭✭✭
    Steve,

    I really didn't look at it that way. You may be right.image
  • PQueuePQueue Posts: 554 ✭✭
    I'm not an MPL expert. I have never considered the '09VDB "rare", as many on this Forum do. This many examples of the key to the MPL set cannot be good for prices.
  • StoogeStooge Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭
    Knowing that Lincoln cent collectors go cookoo over these coins and that there is 35% of them here in 1 set, if I had unlimited funds, I would be all over this like red on a fire truck. I would do my best to cross the NGC and ICG over to PCGS and attempt to up-grade all of the Cents as I continually purchase every single specimen that hits the market.

    When you hoard something, you can set the prices if you obtain enough of them. The problem with this is anonymity. The cats IS as some have said, out of the bag, so hoarding them secretly has really taken a lot out of the bang for your buck. It might be worth just buying them all and selling slowly over time, say 1 every 3 months or so.

    Personally, I would have been buying up all of the Matte Proof Lincolns over a certain grade such as PR65, and instruct any agent I worked with to not mention my name at all.

    Wasn't there someone out there hoarding 1844 Dimes? Had dozens of them graded all grades by PCGS.


    Later, Paul.
  • My name is Paul Schiemer, and I am representing this collection in its sale.
    Felt it would be prudent to contribute details here regarding it.
    Just so y’all get it straight from the horse's mouth.

    I am NOT a coin collector. Definitely no numismatist either.
    I’ve been retired since 1991 and am doing this representation as a favor for a friend.
    He is the collector.

    I am not a "broker", nor a salesman, and there’s no ‘juice’ to be paid either.
    No fees apply- it’s a straight up, straight forward deal.
    This transaction will be accomplished directly with the owner or one of his legal representatives, on site.

    It is the entire lot of 53 coins at one time.
    I am taking offers on it.
    This isn’t an auction, but more of a ‘private treaty’ matter.

    Parties interested in acquiring the collection are free to contact me regarding it.
    Any and all offers are considered confidential.

    If there are questions, I am ready to field them.

    The layout of the advert appearing in "Coin World" was my doing, every bit of it.
    *It should be noted; due to the ‘real estate’ of the page [ie; its mere 93 square inches], and the sheer volume of coins to be displayed upon it (in obverse & reverse, with the coins still contained in their grading slabs) there would be no way to present the cents with any kind of clarity for judging their condition or quality- from the advert. It is just not possible.

    HOWEVER; if any one or another of the coins need to be seen in living color and brilliant detail, I have them available in large JPEG files which I am willing to share.
    All one need do is ask, and I will comply.

    To the issue of "anonymity"- it should have no bearing on the ultimate disposition of the collection.
    The collector wishes to be anonymous.

    Feel free to ask me any questions you wish.
    I am more than capable of prompt reply, and researching facts before posting.

    {reason for edit? Trimming the fat. NY Res. 2015}
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 11,818 ✭✭✭
    It would be nice to get one at a reasonable price. They've been so expensive. The really pretty ones should command a big premium I guess.
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭
    Nonikname.

    Thanks for the information. About 8 years ago I was involved in a similar transaction. I acted in the role you are playing. The subject matter was the s ale of about 80,000 records dating from the 19 30 ' s to the early 1980's. Solicited blind bids from multiple interested buyers. A very interesting process that turned out very well for the seller. Good luck.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Turn on your PM if you're interested in getting bids
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,453 ✭✭✭
    i'll say this
    how this got to be promoted is beyond me

    this sale shouldn't even come close to it's expectations

    goodluck to whomever buys it too
    economy is tough and you now have to find 53 buyers or your money is dead

    i see price level drop in the making

    Paul Schiemer
    saying your not a broker doesn't remove it as fact...fee based,free or pro bono...brokering a sale is brokering a sale
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • Comments- please allow.
    "Promoted"?
    I paid for an advertisement in "Coin World".
    . Steve saw it and began a thread here.
    . Others saw the thread and posted comments.

    I'd think it was obvious how it's getting 'promoted'.
    Thanks for helping. I don't care what you say, as long as the name is spelled right.

    *******
    Not sure if it's di rigueur here, but I do want to comment on something I discovered contained in this thread.

    First; I don't know any of y'all- but I respect each and every one of you.
    If you can't tell, I'm a total neophyte when it comes to coin collecting.

    Being here is like a Cub Scout pledge in a room full of Eagle Scouts (or Army Rangers even!)
    I know my place.


    {reason for edit? Trimming the fat. NY Res. 2015}






  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭
    I just saw Paul's comments and feel obligated to reply. I stated how I feel about this hoard in the two posts above in this thread. Paul has also made some nice comments about MY collection which I feel I should respond to. Of course, I obviously love my Lincoln proof cent collection and enjoy showing it in the Set Registry and linking it in all my posts. BUT, my collection, while important to me, does not have the status your friend collector has had by acquiring 53 of what I believe to be about 150 1909VDB MPL's certified by PCGS,NGC,ANACS and ICG over the years. RAW coin examples are generally NOT accepted by the hobby because they very likely lack key diagnostics supporting a Matte Proof Lincoln status.

    Those four grading services have reported currently a total of 209 coins certified and after subtracting almost all ANACS and ICG coins by fairly assuming very, very few of those 23 and 6 still reside in their original holders, and then subtracting another 20 or so of NGC certified coins from their total of 56 and finally subtracting at least 10 to 20 of the PCGS certified total of 124 assuming crackouts and resubmissions you can easily see that the existing total of these coins INCLUDING your collector friend's 53 are about 150.

    I personally appreciate you posting here and providing your input. I sincerely hope that this collection DOES get sold to someone within our hobby who has a strong interest in this limited population and strives to offer the coins to many collectors who desire this coin for their collection. I'm sure there are enough choices available so that collectors of various means will be able to acquire one. If that happens, my position as #5 in the all time listing will probably drop. That won't bother me because I'm happy to own my PCGS PR61RB example.
    Steve image
  • Is the asking price a secret?
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,579 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Is the asking price a secret? >>



    I guess. I got a list of all the grades of the coins, but not what TPG's or a price for the grouping.
    Doug
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,579 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Is the asking price a secret? >>



    I guess. I got a list of all the grades of the coins, but not what TPG's or a price for the grouping.
    Doug
  • This COLLECTION is to be sold in its entirety.
    I am taking offers.
    There is NO 'asking price'.

    Anyone who follows this vertical interest (1909 VDBs) knows where the 'market value' is for them.
    >>>An approximate CMA is to be found on Page 3 here. Use that as your guide.



    Questions? contact me
    Need pix? contact me
    Want to buy the Collection? ditto

    {reason for edit? Trimming the fat. NY Res. 2015}
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,579 ✭✭✭
    No so hard friend. Especially with these you have to buy the coin, not the holder x 53 and try to predict what it is going to take to move those last 10 coins out of your inventory. Unless of course you find that special collector who will continue to hoard them. I'm not a dealer, so I don't know what they might be looking at doing.
    Doug
  • Point of order, if you will.

    I've re-read the RULES here, and there is a covenant which applies to pitching sales outside the FOR SALE/CLASSIFIED Forum.
    It is verboten.

    I am contributing here only to clear the air on the details of the offering- not, necessarily, 'pitching' the Collection.
    Thought it would be good if u'all heard it from the 'horse's mouth'.


    Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.
    Paul.


    {reason for edit? Trimming the fat. NY Res. 2015}
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭
    For the 80,000 records I helped the owner sell in bulk through blind bidding the group of interested buyers experienced consternation since they were operating in an uncertain environment. No one knew what the seller wanted as a sale price. The buyers were forced to come up with purchase offers on their own. There were low ball offers and there were amazingly high offers. The winning bidder was on a mission to acquire the records and bid much higher than the others.

    He won and did well when he resold the records into the market.

  • I think you might find you get more offers if you were to put out a range or the PCGS price guide total for all the coins. People tend to low ball when they don't know what the seller is asking. The number one rule of negotiation is the first person to name a number loses which is why it sounds like no number is being listed. Its a attempt to get buyers to negotiate against themselves.
  • [My comments just below are in response to the contribution shown directly above.]

    >>>Just cut the whole thing. No sense indulging the disembodied critics.<<<

    Want to make an offer on the COLLECTION- please contact me directly.



    {reason for edit? Trimming the fat. NY Res. 2015}
  • StoogeStooge Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭
    Hello Nonikname,

    I for one will not be bidding on your 53 Lincoln Cents from 1909, but I would be very interested in seeing you list them here for everyone to see. It wouldn't hurt at all I'm sure to view a list would it?

    Thanks...

    Later, Paul.


  • << <i>Hello Nonikname,

    I for one will not be bidding on your 53 Lincoln Cents from 1909, but I would be very interested in seeing you list them here for everyone to see. It wouldn't hurt at all I'm sure to view a list would it?

    Thanks... >>



    Cut out my feeble effort to answer this request.
    A better listing can be found on Page 3 here.

    {reason for edit? Trimming the fat. NY Res. 2015}
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,579 ✭✭✭
    Grade by TPG would be be more informative.
    Doug


  • << <i>Grade by TPG would be be more informative. >>



    Deleted my response. See Page 3.

    {reason for edit? Trimming the fat. NY Res. 2015}
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,579 ✭✭✭
    Like this:

    1- PCGS PR67RB+
    1- ICG PR67RD
    1- PCGS PR66RD
    5- PCGS PR66RB
    4- NGC PR66RD
    Doug
  • Are they all in PCGS holders?
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭
    Paul,
    Here's my problem. The owner is selling 53 1909VDB Matte Proof Lincoln cents. Your ad in Coin World clearly shows 54 slabs. (ie) coins encapsulated in plastic holders by various third party grading (TPG) services. Your listing above shows a total of 54 grades and color designations. So obviously you are showing and reporting on one coin that is a duplicate. Can you please tell us which coin is the duplicate? To answer Doug's question (DMWJR) I see 11 coins that appear to be in Numismatic Guarantee Corporation (NGC) holders, 1 coin in Independent Coin Grading holder (ICG) and 42 coins in Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) holders. My guess is that the owner is selling 41 coins in the PCGS holder. Correct? I DO wish you and the owner the best in completing a transaction that will benefit the hobby for the future, but I do believe it is important to correct the record regarding exactly what duplicate coin is showing in the ad. Thank you.
    Steve image
  • Thanks for the input.

    Yes, 54 slabs are shown in the advert.
    A count of 54 is presented in the list I've provided on this page in the thread.

    But, only 53 are "VDB" (y'all can't see it in the advert, of course- too small.)

    Line 5 in the Graded 65 group, third from left- is NOT a "VDB" [it is in a PCGS slab].

    This changes the numbering scheme depicting the Gradings shown earlier.
    So, line three in my list on this page in the thread ("24- 65 = 4 red, 19 red brown, 1 brown") should read 23- 65 = 4 red, 18 red brown, 1 brown.

    Effectively, nothing changes in the COUNT - it's remains at 53 "VDB" cents.
    Forgive the clerical error of inclusion of the non-VDB.
    I'd explain how it happened, but it's not really relevant in the final analysis.

    {Keeping it simple}

    {reason for edit? Trimming the fat. NY Res. 2015}
  • Hey, for what its worth- the "non VDB" is graded at 65 (PCGS).



  • << <i>Paul, my so called 'eagle eye' says that non VDB is NOT "on Line 4 in the Graded 65 group, second from left." I believe it is "on Line 5 in the Graded 65 group, third from left" and I believe it is a 1909 Lincoln Matte Proof cent. (Non VDB). Correct? Steveimage >>



    There ya go folks- PROOF POSITIVE, Steve has eagle eyes (probably still in his 20's!, whereas I'm heading over the HILL… )

    I'll make the correction in my initial CORRECTION, and blame it on --- oh hell, myself!

    Thanks to Steve, we are GOOD TO GO now.

    Line 5 in Graded 65 is the interloper (non VDB).
    I'm chuckling a bit, mia culpa all over the place!

    You're my hero, friend!!
    Paul.
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,579 ✭✭✭
    Any news on a sale?
    Doug
  • Will the sale and terms be made public? I love to know how it works out for you.
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭
    One of the interesting aspects of our hobby is that many of us seem to respect a "quiet period" when a major potential sale MAY take place in the hobby. In October, COIN WORLD published an article in which the owner of 53 Matte Proof Lincoln cents stated he owned this hoard and was interested in selling ALL 53 coins as a package. The following month, in November, Paul Schiemer, stating he was a "friend" of the owner, took out a full page ad in COIN WORLD in which he showed pictures of all the coins and requested to be contacted about a possible sale of these coins. Mr. Schiemer has also communicated in this thread as "NONIKNAME". Other than the above, I am unaware of any other comment or communication about this subject appearing in the numismatic or hobby media in the past two plus months.

    I guess I, and probably others who read this may wonder WHY we haven't heard anything. Certainly, SOMEBODY knows something about what is happening. But we, as good hobbyists are willing to remain silent during this "quiet period" to await word from those "in the know". We can conjecture and "hope" this hoard remains within the hobby. It REALLY represents 35% of all the legitimate 1909VDB MPL's out there.
    If anyone cares to further comment on this subject, I'm sure there are plenty of us who will enjoy hearing what you have to say. Steveimage
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,579 ✭✭✭
    Paul?
    Doug
  • StoogeStooge Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭
    Nonikname,

    I'm thinking to myself that you really have no interest in selling these 53/54 or what have you beautiful 1909 V.D.B. MPL's.

    You are making things quite difficult for yourself on these boards which your somewhat secretive actions and your descriptive statements that Data from StarTrek would need to decipher.
    What you fail to realize is the fact that you have several, lets me put it this way...."Well off, and quite successful, eager MPL collectors" that have either "read" this thread, or even posted in this thread. I myself have been a member of these wonderful boards for over 13 years and I can tell you with a certainty that there are any of a number of Gentleman and/or Ladies that could easily reach into their billfold, grab a pen, and write you a very pleasing check for your lovely Lincolns'.
    My goal is not to be condescending to you my friend, but to assist in my very little way in seeing a spectacular deal go through whether it be in public or private. So my advice to you whether you decide to take it wholeheartedly, or wisk me away like a pesky nat, is to do this:

    List the Lincolns' according to Third Party Grading (TPG) ie:

    ANACS:

    PR62
    PR63BN
    PR64RD

    NGC:

    PR62
    PR63BN
    PR64RD

    PCGS:

    PR66
    PR66BN
    PR66RD

    and so on....

    Also I would use a scanner or a very nice camera and take some photos....some that you have taken or look up the Cert #'s for the Truviews for the PCGS Lincolns'. If you want, send me the cert #'s in a PM and I will look them up for you and I will use www.Photobucket.com if I need to assist you in that way. I will send you my E-mail addy and you can E-mail me the pictures and I will take them from there.

    As far as the pricing, somehow you are going to have to leak out a low/HI and give everyone else a range to work with.

    If you have any other questions, feel free to leave me a PM, or post here. Thanks again and good luck with the sale.

    Later, Paul.
  • PQueuePQueue Posts: 554 ✭✭
    RE: ...I can tell you with a certainty that there are any of a number of Gentleman and/or Ladies that could easily reach into their billfold, grab a pen, and write you a very pleasing check for your lovely Lincolns'.

    Hello Stooge,
    I do not believe that there are "any number" of people here that can easily write a check for this grouping of 53 PR VDB's. Of the few that could, I suspect that most do not want 53 Matte VDBs. I doubt the buyer will emerge from this Forum. Many collectors here are curious, few, if any, are real prospective buyers.
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭
    Paul G. & PQ,
    I don't think Paul S. has denied ANY potential buyer of these coins the opportunity or the ability to get ALL the pertinent details of each of the 53 MPL's involved. I agree that there are a number of members here who have read this thread and have the ability, if they so choose, to buy this collection. Note the name of poster #11 on THIS thread.

    Since I own one of the approximately 150 TPG 1909VDB MPL's, I have a specific interest in how these coins get dispersed. I made the effort to get copies of the October and November issues of COIN WORLD where most details and visuals about this collection was described in the article and the ad. THIS thread also includes most of these details including the fact that the collection contains 41 PCGS graded coins, 11 NGC graded coins and 1 ICG graded coin. I realize that most of us here are more curious about what happens to the coins, and I continue to find it very unusual that no other numismatic source has chosen to comment on this subject.

    So I will close with this request to Paul Schiemer (nonikname). Below I am quoting the final two paragraphs of your post on this thread of November 17th. In the second sentence of the first paragraph you stated that offers would remain under consideration until the end of the month. (November). Can you please provide an update as to whether or not the collection is still for sale? Thank you. Steveimage




    << <i>The "COIN WORLD" advert has met with great results.
    Offers have been tendered, and shall remain under consideration until the end of the month (EOM.)
    I have tried to be responsive to any and all inquiry, and do hope everyone appreciates the alacrity.

    Feel free to contact me directly with any and all offers to purchase the Collection.
    Requests for further details and images are quickly responded to.
    Thanks, Paul. >>

  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,107 ✭✭✭
    Maybe we can form a 1909 VDB buyers syndicate. Get a group of individuals who would want at least one of the coins, figure out a value per coin and submit the total. We could then divide the coins up between the buyers syndicate members.

    We need the list of the coins, itemized with grade, grading service, serial numbers and a good image.

    Here is what we have so far:

    PR62RD PCGS Only one graded HA 1/05:5501 $5,750
    PR63RD #1 PCGS Pop 3, with a 63+RD. HA 5/10:309 $18,400
    PR63RD #2 PCGS
    PR64RD NGC
    PR64RB #1 PCGS
    PR64RB #2 PCGS
    PR64RB #3 PCGS
    PR64RB #4 PCGS
    PR64RB #5 PCGS
    PR64RB #6 PCGS
    PR64RB #7 PCGS
    PR64RB #8 PCGS
    PR64RB #9 PCGS
    PR64RB #10 PCGS
    PR64RB #11 PCGS
    PR64RB #12 PCGS
    PR64BN #1 PCGS
    PR64BN #2 PCGS
    PR65RD #1 PCGS
    PR65RD #2 NGC
    PR65RD #3 PCGS
    PR65RD #4 NGC
    PR65RB #1 PCGS
    PR65RB #2 PCGS
    PR65RB #3 PCGS
    PR65RB #4 PCGS
    PR65RB #5 PCGS
    PR65RB #6 PCGS
    PR65RB #7 NGC
    PR65RB #8 PCGS
    PR65RB #9 PCGS
    PR65RB #10 PCGS
    PR65RB #11 PCGS
    PR65RB #12 NGC
    PR65RB #13 PCGS
    PR65RB #14 PCGS
    PR65RB #15 NGC
    PR65RB #16 PCGS
    PR65RB #17 PCGS
    PR65RB #18 PCGS
    PR65BN NGC
    PR66RD #1 PCGS
    PR66RD #2 NGC
    PR66RD #3 NGC
    PR66RD #4 NGC
    PR66RB #1 PCGS
    PR66RB #2 NGC
    PR66RB #3 PCGS
    PR66RB #4 PCGS
    PR66RB #5 PCGS
    PR66RB #6 PCGS
    PR67RD ICG
    PR67+RB #1 PCGS CAC-Gold 8/14:5536 $258,500
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe we can form a 1909 VDB buyers syndicate. Get a group of individuals who would want at least one of the coins, figure out a value per coin and submit the total. We could then divide the coins up between the buyers syndicate members.

    We need the list of the coins, itemized with grade, grading service, serial numbers and a good image.

    Here is what we have so far:

    --------- NGC ***

    PR62RD-----------$11,000
    PR63RD #1-------$23,500
    PR63RD #2-------$23,500
    PR64RD-----------$23,500 ***
    PR64RB #1-------$29,000
    PR64RB #2-------$29,000
    PR64RB #3-------$29,000
    PR64RB #4-------$29,000
    PR64RB #5-------$29,000
    PR64RB #6-------$29,000
    PR64RB #7-------$29,000
    PR64RB #8-------$29,000
    PR64RB #9-------$29,000
    PR64RB #10------$29,000
    PR64RB #11------$29,000
    PR64RB #12------$29,000
    PR64BN #1-------$23,500
    PR64BN #2-------$23,500
    PR65RD #1-------$55,000
    PR65RD #2 ------$48,500 ***
    PR65RD #3-------$55,000
    PR65RD #4-------$48,500 ***
    PR65RB #1-------$40,000
    PR65RB #2-------$40,000
    PR65RB #3-------$40,000
    PR65RB #4-------$40,000
    PR65RB #5-------$40,000
    PR65RB #6-------$40,000
    PR65RB #7-------$29,000***
    PR65RB #8-------$40,000
    PR65RB #9-------$40,000
    PR65RB #10------$40,000
    PR65RB #11------$40,000
    PR65RB #12------$29,000***
    PR65RB #13------$40,000
    PR65RB #14------$40,000
    PR65RB #15------$29,000***
    PR65RB #16------$40,000
    PR65RB #17------$40,000
    PR65RB #18------$40,000
    PR65BN ----------$23,500***
    PR66RD #1-------$90,000
    PR66RD #2-------$55,000***
    PR66RD #3-------$55,000***
    PR66RD #4-------$55,000***
    PR66RB #1-------$69,000
    PR66RB #2-------$40,000***
    PR66RB #3-------$69,000
    PR66RB #4-------$69,000
    PR66RB #5-------$69,000
    PR66RB #6-------$69,000
    PR67RD ---------$150,000 ICG- Walter Childs Collection (Pedigree to US Mint)
    PR67+RB--------$225,000 #1 PCGS CAC-Gold >>

    John Story Jenks Collection & most recent Jonathan Watkins/McCullagh Collection



    Thanks, Rick, The 11 NGC coins are identified by ***, and the ICG coin is the PR67RD. The other 41 coins are PCGS.

    I've now added RETAIL pricing based on the PCGS current price guide. I've used one grade value LOWER for each of the 11 NGC coins. Of course, this number has no relevance to reality because RETAIL pricing represents the amount the SELLER would like to receive for the coins he wants to sell. And, the PCGS Price Guide values coins in the same grade with the same color designation at the same price. Obviously, each coin is different and commands a price based on its individual qualities. With that said, I'll save everyone the trouble of adding up the 53 coins by stating the price this calculation comes up with is $2,409.000.

    Steve image
  • StoogeStooge Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭


    << <i>RE: ...I can tell you with a certainty that there are any of a number of Gentleman and/or Ladies that could easily reach into their billfold, grab a pen, and write you a very pleasing check for your lovely Lincolns'.

    Hello Stooge,
    I do not believe that there are "any number" of people here that can easily write a check for this grouping of 53 PR VDB's. Of the few that could, I suspect that most do not want 53 Matte VDBs. I doubt the buyer will emerge from this Forum. Many collectors here are curious, few, if any, are real prospective buyers. >>

    PQueue,

    You do bring up some very valid points, one being that there are not many people that would want 53 PR VDB's, but you are not speaking about any PR coin. You are referring to one of the biggest dates in the entire Cent catalogue and the hottest Date/MM/variety of all of the MPL's. Steve will agree with me on this when I say that this forum has been a "Hotbed" of activity regarding MPL's for years. At one point the prices on all of the dates were very volatile and sky rocketing for quite a while. I'm sure that there are some "Collectors" out there that have seen the CoinWorld issues, and may have seen this thread, but I can assure you that there are also a dealer or 2 that are going over their own numbers trying to figure out if it is a safe bet to buy 53 of them at the same time to somewhat corner the market on this tiny hoard, try and set a price, maybe, just maybe add a few more if they come to light and/or sell sparingly say 1-2 every 3 months to make a nice profit.

    There are more Millionaires in this Country then there has ever been, coming up on something like 7+ million of them and they are looking to spend their money on the unusual, unique, and something that no-one else has, and I can guarantee you, no-one else has (53) 1909 VDB MPL's sitting around.

    There is an ICG PR67RD and a beautiful PCGS CAC PR67+RB, and I wouldn't doubt that someone would buy the lot, just to get one of those 2 coins and dump the rest, but again that is JMHO.

    Later, Paul.
  • StoogeStooge Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭
    I was on CoinWorld's web site on an unrelated article, and decided to see if they had an article regarding the 53 MPL's. Here is the article if someone had missed it:

    Specialist assembles collection of 53 Proof 1909 Lincoln, V.D.B. cents

    Later, Paul.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am a buyer for a PR65RB in a rattler
  • Apologies for not paying better attention to this thread. I've been kinda busy of late.

    As to the question of EOM and the status of this Collection - it is still available.

    Appreciate the kind attention to making the list itemized with grade & grading service.
    It appears to be both correct and concise. Thank you.

    BE IT KNOWN:
    We are NOT trying to change the way things are done in the numismatist world.
    This is the way we are doing this deal.



    QUITE SIMPLY:
    Here they are. Want to buy them?; contact me directly (email, phone, or -lastly- here in a private email.)

    I can say this about the people I've met in the process; each and every one of them is enthusiastic about the hobby, helpful and congenial.
    Thank you for the warm and sincere greeting I've received.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    $500k cash
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭
    Jump back SIX posts in THIS thread. I've added some PCGS pricing guide numbers to Rick Snow's layout of the 53 1909VDB MPL hoard. Steveimage
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You might be a bit low at $2,409. image
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