1877-CC Seated Liberty Half Dollar... XF40 or 45? Thoughts Sought! ***GRADE POSTED***

BustHalfBrian

I'm split between the two

It's going to grading soon. I'll make a note to post the grade here when it returns.

HighRelief

I would say closer to a 40 looking at the obverse.

The die crack on the reverse is a cool factor along with the infamous CC

410a

VF 35 to EF 40......

NumisOxide

Xf40 nice patina

ms70

40

fastfreddie

Nice and crusty 40? Reverse shield shows weakness IMO.

rhedden

I don't think it can go less than 40 by today's standards. I've submitted about 20 circ. Seated halves in the past year or two, all XF40 to MS61, so I have a decent feel for this series in XF-AU right now. I think this coin has solid 40 details based on my own results, but the surfaces are so choice for the grade that it might get bumped up. You also have to consider it's got fully struck head details, a big plus when looking for a 45. The only detractions are a couple of tiny pinscratches in the right obverse field and on Liberty's neck, which might make a grader say 40. In summary, I refuse to guess whether it makes 40 or 45, but it's a darn nice coin, and do let us know!

Boosibri

I'm also in the 40 camp. Nice coin.

Colorfulcoins

40...but a nice one

DUIGUY

<< <i>Xf40 nice patina >>

rec78

44.

There almost seems to be some sort of light graffiti or scratches on the right of the obverse near star 11. May not grade? I'm not sure if it will. It could go to 45 but I will give it a 40 due to the scratches. JMO. It is a very nice coin. Good luck with the grading.


Bob

coinkat

I suppose I am creating the 45 camp. This is a wonderful coin- very original with nice remaining luster that is muted by what remains on a coin after entering circulation.

Finding one like this is a difficult find. Enjoy it as it is - I hope it gets the grade it deserves

kaz

A beautiful example of circ silver. 40 for sure, maybe 45 on a good day.

amwldcoin

I'm going with 40 and a chance it 35's due to the minor scratches. I submitted a 76-CC awhile back that was way stronger than this coin with rich original toning. I thought it had a shot at AU but it came back 45!

GotTheBug

I'm sitting on the fence between 40 and 45 so I will go with 40. Love that nice gray color

crypto79

Closer to 35 then 45 but solidly a 40 that should sticker at that level.

jdimmick

solid 40, maybe just enough to get the 45 by chance

roadrunner

Enough luster and a nice look for it be an XF45 even if the eagles feathers could be a little stronger.

But I think it gets netted down to XF40 because of the light obv pin scratches.

crypto79

<< <i>Enough luster and a nice look for it be an XF45 even if the eagles feathers could be a little stronger.

But I think it gets netted down to XF40 because of the light obv pin scratches. >>



I think I have a different definition of luster then others on this board. I would be surprised if that coin retains more than 5-10% of it's original luster to include the protected areas.

coinkat

Crypto79

We can just agree to disagree on this one.

291fifth

A nice original 40.

ricko

40.....Cheers, RickO

UltraHighRelief

45

DennisH

40

BillJones

The coin is maxed out at EF-40. The devices and surfaces look too tired to grade any higher.

mr1931S

Call it 40 while you own it.Call it 45 when you want to sell it.

GeorgeKellogg

I'm going with XF40 -- although it may be a "in-between-er." I looked at the 40s and 45s in CoinFacts. This piece looks slightly better than some of the 40s, but not quite up to the 45s. In any case, this is a nice piece, with lots of contrast around the devices, and wouldn't look "silly" in a 45 holder. Congrats!

crypto79

<< <i>Crypto79

We can just agree to disagree on this one. >>



Sure but I guess the people who are splitting down the 40-45 level are applying modern market grading and old school technical wear based grading. That might NGC45 due to the companies different standards

While coins can be net graded up and down for different factors causing some exceptions, the baseline difference between xf40-au53 is the percentage of original mint surface remaining. Assuming a minimum of detail loss I want an XF45 to have north of 25% of luster, mint frost or remaining original surface textures (many require more). That coin looks to have very little left in the way of surface area that hasn't been rubbed off. Even if there is some gloss left or a glint in the tone in the deepest recesses, that just makes for a nice xf40.

If you think about it, the AU grades are just more or less descriptors to define how much of the original skin has not been rubbed off as really very little detail loss is allowed. The lower AU range allows a little detail loss but when it starts to look like a worn AU that is what a xf45 is. The gap to 40 is the rest of the fields get rubbed, toned or aged off. Leaving a coin with most of the major details save a few flat spots and or no mint surfaces remaining.

Once the xf40 level has been reached it all becomes about detail loss and eye appeal as those grades assume no measurable mint surface left intact.

coinkat

Just a couple of quick comments in connection with this coin, the status of luster and surface impairment and the strike.

This coin has decent luster that remains in protected areas. If we look at the draped areas, the stars and even in the fields have the remains of die flow lines. The actual reflectivity is muted- now, if some one enhanced the coin, then the reflectivity would change the opinion that this coin has insufficient luster for an EF45 grade. And if that enhancement were done, it would look horrible...

Lets talk about the strike and the remaining detail- obverse first. The shield looks bold as does the hairline of Liberty's head. There is significant detail in the draped area with luster present. The minor scratch is off set by the originality of the coin.

The reverse is the bigger question and challenge. There is a pattern of wear that creates doubt as to whether 45 is viable. However, there is a die crack which begs questions as to the status of the die itself and whether the strike left a little to be desired in terms of the loss of details at the high points of the eagle. So while there is a pattern of wear, that wear will be exaggerated if the strike was weak. I think the reverse can be explained as a weak strike- especially if the luster in the protected areas of the feathers is considered.

I suppose the better question is... How many 1877-cc Seated Halfs that are in either a 40 or 45 holder have this look? i suspect the answer is somewhere under 30%

LogPotato

Here is amwldcoin's CC:

roadrunner

I'd put the luster on the OP's coin at 10-15%....plenty for an XF45. Most XF40's these days don't have ANY luster.

Reminds me of an AU58 1803 half dime I owned back around 2004. That coin had about 10-15% luster, cleaned surfaces, significant digs and scratches, and a strike to kill for. It looked unc on wear but the luster had been
stripped off over the years from multiple cleanings. That coin was resubmitted by a major retailer where it came back MS62. A pretty lofty grade for 10-15% luster and being cleaned to boot. We're not asking for the moon on
an XF45 seated half.

crypto79

<< <i>I'd put the luster on the OP's coin at 10-15%....plenty for an XF45. Most XF40's these days don't have ANY luster.

Reminds me of an AU58 1803 half dime I owned back around 2004. That coin had about 10-15% luster, cleaned surfaces, significant digs and scratches, and a strike to kill for. It looked unc on wear but the luster had been
stripped off over the years from multiple cleanings. That coin was resubmitted by a major retailer where it came back MS62. A pretty lofty grade for 10-15% luster and being cleaned to boot. We're not asking for the moon on
an XF45 seated half. >>



Fair enough but the UNC rage plays by a different set of rules as well. I am pretty sure we are saying the same thing and just putting our flag in slightly different spots in the ground. I look forward to the results .

SethChandler

What a great looking coin! The story that it could tell. How long do you think it circuited for? 3 years? 5?

I'd go with a 45, but I think 3 out of 4 times, they call it a 40. Also, gotta take into acct the scratches around 2 o'clock. If they are a little troublesome in person, then a gentle net to 40 for sure.

If it was dipped blast white, it might even get a 50. But please do not do that.

Here are a few random XF - AU CC halves from Coinfacts...I think you will appreciate your coin even more. Enjoy It!
Seth


AU50





XF45


XF40



XF40

joebb21

45 technical.

scratches/grafitti

BustHalfBrian

One of the few grades from this submission that I'm happy with.

Thanks for playing!

coinkat

Congrats- I was hoping this one would get a 45...

AMRC

Nice. I was thinking it was a 40.

Manorcourtman

Nice job Brian!

ms70

I said 40. At least I was within 5 points.

crypto79

Bahhhnifninhad submitted it it would have 40. Congrats glad I was wrong

BustHalfBrian

<< <i>Bahhhnifninhad submitted it it would have 40. Congrats glad I was wrong >>



I got lucky on this one. You should have seen the rest of the submission...