it's good to go. scanned immediately and correctly. although, I couldn't see my self dropping $36K on any '93 card. don't care who it is and I certainly wouldn't get caught up in the "retirement" hype. might not ever recoup your money until postmortem days.
<< <i>Unfortunately this is a fake card and this auction will be getting pulled today. >>
David, Are you serious about this statement? Assuming this is a real statement, how did you find this out? Additionally, if this is a true statement, does this not scare the crap out of anyone else? I would never have been able to tell that this card is fake.
Matt I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
Here are the front and back scans from the auction
[/URL] [/URL]
Here are the front and back scans of the same cert number that sold last year
[/URL] [/URL]
I notice two differences:
1. The security tab below the lower right corner of the flip appears to be "popped" on the Probstein auction 2. On the back of the flip, look at the alignment of the text "A Division of Collectors Universe". It appears to be aligned further right on the Probstein auction
apparently so. dpeck just text'd me and I say the same thing. real f'n scary. apparently in person and in hand it was easily noticeable. also, the very reason I never post pics of my cards unless the cert and the barcode are whited-out.
on the original fake flips you could scan the bar code and it would spit out a different cert than what was on the card. if they have got it down to where they are duplicating flips, barcodes and cert numbers, we might be seeing a turn in the tides....
Wow, powerful scans Curt, Thanks for sharing these. This makes me want to send my entire collection (all 31 cards to PSA and have them re-holdered. I really like that new holder!
Scary stuff above.
Matt I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
I was tipped off last night by board member ergoism who was looking to acquire the card.
The reason I asked to have the pics from VCP added was to see if anyone else could figure it out. I already knew it was bad when I asked Bob to check the barcode and that is surprising this scammer has gotten that figured out.
It is my understanding that in hand it wasn't hard to tell.
And just to be clear I would never make a comment on something like this without 100% proof.
I am literally shaking in my boots and seriously questioning if I will buy any more high dollar cards ever again without proof of a recent back up slip and/or some sort of pedigree.
I pray david's wrong, (solely, because my scanning method had/has saved me on 3 cards)....but I know he's not.
<< <i>It is my understanding that in hand it wasn't hard to tell. >>
If it wasn't hard to tell in hand, why was it up on EBAY? This is two recent auctions that have been put up only to be taken down. 39 Playball Ted Williams PSA 9
Matt I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
would like to hear an explanation of this one myself...
which route is it going to be:
"well, we run a billion auctions a year, some are bound to get by" "a first time consignor sent my staff the card, I was outta town" "same guy that sent me the plank card sent me this, so I knew it was legit"
<< <i>i doubt Rick gets an opportunity to approve every card. it makes me wonder knowing that someone else whom he employs could not identify a fake. >>
Why would Rick not look at the Jeter of all cards?
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>would like to hear an explanation of this one myself...
which route is it going to be:
"well, we run a billion auctions a year, some are bound to get by" "a first time consignor sent my staff the card, I was outta town" "same guy that sent me the plank card sent me this, so I knew it was legit" >>
Not to defend Probstein, but the card was pulled almost immediately. If I saw this card it would have fooled me.
I don't think Rick deserves any grief for this - he accepted a consignment, found evidence that the consignment might not be authentic and immediately pulled it. He did the same with a Magie error earlier this year.
I can think of at least three major auction houses who have let questionable auctions run even when presented similar evidence. I'm assuming Rick would pull in 3-4% on an auction like this, so it can't be easy letting go of $1,000. Good for Rick for doing the right thing.
<< <i>The Font is off on the flip. Didn't anyone else see that when first looking at it? >>
The spacing on the "Jeter" is off a little bit, but these guys have gotten pretty good at duplicating the font. It is definitely better than their first productions.
<< <i>i doubt Rick gets an opportunity to approve every card. it makes me wonder knowing that someone else whom he employs could not identify a fake. >>
Why would Rick not look at the Jeter of all cards? >>
Good point. Interesting last 7 days or so for two of the hobby's bigger sellers, albeit different products.
<< <i>i doubt Rick gets an opportunity to approve every card. it makes me wonder knowing that someone else whom he employs could not identify a fake. >>
Why would Rick not look at the Jeter of all cards? >>
i think the better question to ask would be: When will Rick admit that he is incapable of fending off the dozens of cheaters, forgers, resealers, flip/font fakers & slab crackers?
it's not just this one card. for every card that DOES slip through, it's another notch in "their" belt. if one gets through, others follow.
the admission would require putting a greater amount of importance on qualifying each and every item that passes through Probstein123. that means hiring more people with more expertise in the field, which would ultimately cost more money and affect the bottom line.
it's business. and it always will be. never doubt that for a nanosecond.
What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere.
well from what was disclosed it was easy to tell in hand. coupled with that being said and if I owned said consignment shop and a card of this caliber crossed my desk, then I would be all over it. period. sure, you throw the 86 topps traded otis nixon psa 7 to sheila to post, but a $30K card....
and who's to say that it was rick who decided to pull it? I'm sure some other powers that be advised him to do so...
Looks like L/R centering is different too which is more noticeable on the back.
The bar code wouldn't be hard to fake as long as you have a scan of the legit one. Just a matter of copying the same line pattern. The counterfeiter did a good job on the fake flip.
Here is a legit flip by comparison:
He botched the spacing of 'JETER' and his '9' looks a little off. There are other subtle differences as well, but it would take a close inspection by anybody to catch this.
I'm assuming Rick would pull in 3-4% on an auction like this, so it can't be easy letting go of $1,000. Good for Rick for doing the right thing.
He did pull it off right away so props to Rick on that. Now is it one of those things were he would have NOT pulled it if it were not for DPECK's great detective work? (Of course who would admit that) but by simply looking at the card, everyone knew this thing was not a 10, so in hand should have been obvious one would think. But then again, its not up to Rick and his team to do detective work.
<< <i>I'm assuming Rick would pull in 3-4% on an auction like this, so it can't be easy letting go of $1,000. Good for Rick for doing the right thing.
He did pull it off right away so props to Rick on that. Now is it one of those things were he would have NOT pulled it if it were not for DPECK's great detective work? (Of course who would admit that) but by simply looking at the card, everyone knew this thing was not a 10, so in hand should have been obvious one would think. But then again, its not up to Rick and his team to do detective work. >>
I can't take any credit for the detective work.
Ergoism can be credited though. I asked him if it was okay to share with the board and he gave the okay.
<< <i>He did pull it off right away so props to Rick on that. Now is it one of those things were he would have NOT pulled it if it were not for DPECK's great detective work? (Of course who would admit that) but by simply looking at the card, everyone knew this thing was not a 10, so in hand should have been obvious one would think. But then again, its not up to Rick and his team to do detective work. >>
Of course the auction would have run. No one here would have imagined that it was a counterfeit slab. Over graded? Sure. But I never thought it was a constructed fake. An over graded card isn't a reason to reject a consignment. Who is Rick to disagree with PSA's grade? The ONLY reason people were suspect of the card was because members are (rightfully) critical of high grade cards that go through Probstein's auctions, but I do not think this is "obvious" at all.
The slab looks perfect (I have never seen a better looking fake slab).The flip looks perfectThe barcode scans
The only reason this was caught was because it looks more like a 9 than a 10. Is that for Rick to decide though? If I received a consignment and the grade was arbitrarily off by 1 grade, I'm not going to reject the consignment.
<< <i>i doubt Rick gets an opportunity to approve every card. it makes me wonder knowing that someone else whom he employs could not identify a fake. >>
His name is on the line, so he should start looking at high profile cards before he lists them.
I think JHS was referring to the card itself and not the flip. So my understanding is the card is actually a Jeter 8.5 which has been swapped into a psa 10 holder?
<< <i>The Font on DEREK JETER is off. Look at enough PSA Slabs, and it becomes instinct >>
Eric, I have to disagree with you on this. The font on this slab is in no way so far off that instinctually you would know this card was fake. You can look at PSA slabs until your blue in the face, but unless you put the slab from the known good auction, there is no way to tell the difference between these two slabs, based on this scan alone. I am going on blind faith that you can tell this card to be a fake in hand, but if this card were such an easy fake to spot, why have so many people commented on this card prior to this new information and aside from the card being a very poor PSA 10, no one questioned its authenticity.
Matt I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
<< <i>What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere. >>
<< <i>Eric, I have to disagree with you on this. The font on this slab is in no way so far off that instinctually you would know this card was fake. You can look at PSA slabs until your blue in the face, but unless you put the slab from the known good auction, there is no way to tell the difference between these two slabs, based on this scan alone. I am going on blind faith that you can tell this card to be a fake in hand, but if this card were such an easy fake to spot, why have so many people commented on this card prior to this new information and aside from the card being a very poor PSA 10, no one questioned its authenticity. >>
The card isn't even a fake! It's a real card cracked out of a PSA 8, 8.5 or 9 slab. If the only way to determine this slab to be fake was to compare this card with a scan of the original, why are we giving Rick such a hard time?
<< <i>What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere. >>
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. >>
What do you think should happen to it?
As much as we'd like to see the card destroyed, I really doubt Rick has the authority to do this. Legally, he probably has to return it.
I changed my original post early in the thread. In it I said that I thought it was a trimmed card and could not believe it was slabbed. The "catch" in the blue field on the reverse is very common on cards they choose not to slab. It is also arguably narrower than other psa slabbed Jeters.
Additionally, myself and quite a few others here have had personally pack pulled Jeters rejected.
Call me immensely relieved that this card was not something that slipped by PSA.
<< <i>What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere. >>
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. >>
What do you think should happen to it?
As much as we'd like to see the card destroyed, I really doubt Rick has the authority to do this. Legally, he probably has to return it. >>
<< <i>What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere. >>
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. >>
What do you think should happen to it?
As much as we'd like to see the card destroyed, I really doubt Rick has the authority to do this. Legally, he probably has to return it. >>
Personally, I think it should be turned over to the FBI along with the consignee's info. They've taken an interest in sports collectibles forgeries in the past and I'm sure could track down the source of this.
If it's not removed from circulations somehow, we're just going to see more of these and they're obviously getting scary good at faking the slabs.
I think it mighta been sent to psa and I doubt very seriously they will be returning it. pretty sure that's what happened to the plank card as well.
and to whoever said they could spot easily the font was off, I'm gonna go w. the rest of the board and call bs. that was one d@mn good (fake) flip, period.
and if the card was as easily noticeable in hand that it was a crack/reinsert etc, then yes rick should be held accountable. I'm no expert, but I can tell the fake holders or even a cracked real holder w/ even the best glue job.
the quality of the flip and the barcode scanning legit are my main concerns
Baez578
Posts: 967 ✭✭✭
Comments
With so few sales of these does anyone have any info on this card from VCP. Pictures, sale date and price etc.
Use your reader on this cert.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
vcp prices:
12/22/13 eBay $32,500.00
12/20/13 Memory Lane $33,842.40
6/15/13 eBay $36,500.00
5/20/12 SCP Auctions $24,450.00
1/28/11 eBay $19,999.00
is better than this one---ouch!!!!!!!!
Pretty wild that it was able to pass your bar code reader Bob.
<< <i>Unfortunately this is a fake card and this auction will be getting pulled today. >>
David, Are you serious about this statement? Assuming this is a real statement, how did you find this out? Additionally, if this is a true statement, does this not scare the crap out of anyone else? I would never have been able to tell that this card is fake.
I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
Here are the front and back scans of the same cert number that sold last year
I notice two differences:
1. The security tab below the lower right corner of the flip appears to be "popped" on the Probstein auction
2. On the back of the flip, look at the alignment of the text "A Division of Collectors Universe". It appears to be aligned further right on the Probstein auction
Hopefully PSA allows this thread to remain.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
on the original fake flips you could scan the bar code and it would spit out a different cert than what was on the card. if they have got it down to where they are duplicating flips, barcodes and cert numbers, we might be seeing a turn in the tides....
Scary stuff above.
I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
The reason I asked to have the pics from VCP added was to see if anyone else could figure it out. I already knew it was bad when I asked Bob to check the barcode and that is surprising this scammer has gotten that figured out.
It is my understanding that in hand it wasn't hard to tell.
And just to be clear I would never make a comment on something like this without 100% proof.
I pray david's wrong, (solely, because my scanning method had/has saved me on 3 cards)....but I know he's not.
Somewhere, Wes Spece is smiling.
<< <i>Looks like the auction has been taken down.
Somewhere, Wes Spece is smiling. >>
Somewhere, the consignor of that Jeter isn't....
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>It is my understanding that in hand it wasn't hard to tell. >>
If it wasn't hard to tell in hand, why was it up on EBAY? This is two recent auctions that have been put up only to be taken down. 39 Playball Ted Williams PSA 9
I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
From what I've see, Probstein will put up anything that comes his way. More money for him. And everything is apparently "centered".
<< <i>Damn, slipped by Probstein as well.
That is scary!
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
which route is it going to be:
"well, we run a billion auctions a year, some are bound to get by"
"a first time consignor sent my staff the card, I was outta town"
"same guy that sent me the plank card sent me this, so I knew it was legit"
<< <i>i doubt Rick gets an opportunity to approve every card. it makes me wonder knowing that someone else whom he employs could not identify a fake. >>
Why would Rick not look at the Jeter of all cards?
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
<< <i>would like to hear an explanation of this one myself...
which route is it going to be:
"well, we run a billion auctions a year, some are bound to get by"
"a first time consignor sent my staff the card, I was outta town"
"same guy that sent me the plank card sent me this, so I knew it was legit" >>
Not to defend Probstein, but the card was pulled almost immediately. If I saw this card it would have fooled me.
I don't think Rick deserves any grief for this - he accepted a consignment, found evidence that the consignment might not be authentic and immediately pulled it. He did the same with a Magie error earlier this year.
I can think of at least three major auction houses who have let questionable auctions run even when presented similar evidence. I'm assuming Rick would pull in 3-4% on an auction like this, so it can't be easy letting go of $1,000. Good for Rick for doing the right thing.
On a side note, forgeries are getting scary good.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>The Font is off on the flip. Didn't anyone else see that when first looking at it? >>
The spacing on the "Jeter" is off a little bit, but these guys have gotten pretty good at duplicating the font. It is definitely better than their first productions.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>
<< <i>i doubt Rick gets an opportunity to approve every card. it makes me wonder knowing that someone else whom he employs could not identify a fake. >>
Why would Rick not look at the Jeter of all cards? >>
Good point. Interesting last 7 days or so for two of the hobby's bigger sellers, albeit different products.
<< <i>
<< <i>i doubt Rick gets an opportunity to approve every card. it makes me wonder knowing that someone else whom he employs could not identify a fake. >>
Why would Rick not look at the Jeter of all cards? >>
i think the better question to ask would be: When will Rick admit that he is incapable of fending off the dozens of cheaters, forgers, resealers, flip/font fakers & slab crackers?
it's not just this one card. for every card that DOES slip through, it's another notch in "their" belt. if one gets through, others follow.
the admission would require putting a greater amount of importance on qualifying each and every item that passes through Probstein123. that means hiring more people with more expertise in the field, which would ultimately cost more money and affect the bottom line.
it's business. and it always will be. never doubt that for a nanosecond.
and who's to say that it was rick who decided to pull it? I'm sure some other powers that be advised him to do so...
The bar code wouldn't be hard to fake as long as you have a scan of the legit one. Just a matter of copying the same line pattern. The counterfeiter did a good job on the fake flip.
Here is a legit flip by comparison:
He botched the spacing of 'JETER' and his '9' looks a little off. There are other subtle differences as well, but it would take a close inspection by anybody to catch this.
He did pull it off right away so props to Rick on that. Now is it one of those things were he would have NOT pulled it if it were not for DPECK's great detective work? (Of course who would admit that) but by simply looking at the card, everyone knew this thing was not a 10, so in hand should have been obvious one would think. But then again, its not up to Rick and his team to do detective work.
<< <i>I'm assuming Rick would pull in 3-4% on an auction like this, so it can't be easy letting go of $1,000. Good for Rick for doing the right thing.
He did pull it off right away so props to Rick on that. Now is it one of those things were he would have NOT pulled it if it were not for DPECK's great detective work? (Of course who would admit that) but by simply looking at the card, everyone knew this thing was not a 10, so in hand should have been obvious one would think. But then again, its not up to Rick and his team to do detective work. >>
I can't take any credit for the detective work.
Ergoism can be credited though. I asked him if it was okay to share with the board and he gave the okay.
<< <i>He did pull it off right away so props to Rick on that. Now is it one of those things were he would have NOT pulled it if it were not for DPECK's great detective work? (Of course who would admit that) but by simply looking at the card, everyone knew this thing was not a 10, so in hand should have been obvious one would think. But then again, its not up to Rick and his team to do detective work. >>
Of course the auction would have run. No one here would have imagined that it was a counterfeit slab. Over graded? Sure. But I never thought it was a constructed fake. An over graded card isn't a reason to reject a consignment. Who is Rick to disagree with PSA's grade? The ONLY reason people were suspect of the card was because members are (rightfully) critical of high grade cards that go through Probstein's auctions, but I do not think this is "obvious" at all.
The slab looks perfect (I have never seen a better looking fake slab).The flip looks perfectThe barcode scans
The only reason this was caught was because it looks more like a 9 than a 10. Is that for Rick to decide though? If I received a consignment and the grade was arbitrarily off by 1 grade, I'm not going to reject the consignment."Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>i doubt Rick gets an opportunity to approve every card. it makes me wonder knowing that someone else whom he employs could not identify a fake. >>
His name is on the line, so he should start looking at high profile cards before he lists them.
<< <i>His name is on the line, so he should start looking at high profile cards before he lists them. >>
If he reviewed the card in person, what are the tell tale signs this is a fake? Other than it's slightly over graded.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>
<< <i>His name is on the line, so he should start looking at high profile cards before he lists them. >>
If he reviewed the card in person, what are the tell tale signs this is a fake? Other than it's slightly over graded. >>
The Font on DEREK JETER is off. Look at enough PSA Slabs, and it becomes instinct
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
<< <i>The Font on DEREK JETER is off. Look at enough PSA Slabs, and it becomes instinct >>
Eric, I have to disagree with you on this. The font on this slab is in no way so far off that instinctually you would know this card was fake. You can look at PSA slabs until your blue in the face, but unless you put the slab from the known good auction, there is no way to tell the difference between these two slabs, based on this scan alone. I am going on blind faith that you can tell this card to be a fake in hand, but if this card were such an easy fake to spot, why have so many people commented on this card prior to this new information and aside from the card being a very poor PSA 10, no one questioned its authenticity.
I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
<< <i>What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere. >>
I'd like to know the answer to this as well.
<< <i>Eric, I have to disagree with you on this. The font on this slab is in no way so far off that instinctually you would know this card was fake. You can look at PSA slabs until your blue in the face, but unless you put the slab from the known good auction, there is no way to tell the difference between these two slabs, based on this scan alone. I am going on blind faith that you can tell this card to be a fake in hand, but if this card were such an easy fake to spot, why have so many people commented on this card prior to this new information and aside from the card being a very poor PSA 10, no one questioned its authenticity. >>
The card isn't even a fake! It's a real card cracked out of a PSA 8, 8.5 or 9 slab. If the only way to determine this slab to be fake was to compare this card with a scan of the original, why are we giving Rick such a hard time?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>
<< <i>What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere. >>
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. >>
What do you think should happen to it?
As much as we'd like to see the card destroyed, I really doubt Rick has the authority to do this. Legally, he probably has to return it.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
Additionally, myself and quite a few others here have had personally pack pulled Jeters rejected.
Call me immensely relieved that this card was not something that slipped by PSA.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere. >>
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. >>
What do you think should happen to it?
As much as we'd like to see the card destroyed, I really doubt Rick has the authority to do this. Legally, he probably has to return it. >>
I don't know what the procedure should be.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What happens to this card now that the auction is pulled? I would hope it gets destroyed, but suspect it just gets sent back to the consignee to try again elsewhere. >>
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. >>
What do you think should happen to it?
As much as we'd like to see the card destroyed, I really doubt Rick has the authority to do this. Legally, he probably has to return it. >>
Personally, I think it should be turned over to the FBI along with the consignee's info. They've taken an interest in sports collectibles forgeries in the past and I'm sure could track down the source of this.
If it's not removed from circulations somehow, we're just going to see more of these and they're obviously getting scary good at faking the slabs.
Lee
and to whoever said they could spot easily the font was off, I'm gonna go w. the rest of the board and call bs. that was one d@mn good (fake) flip, period.
and if the card was as easily noticeable in hand that it was a crack/reinsert etc, then yes rick should be held accountable. I'm no expert, but I can tell the fake holders or even a cracked real holder w/ even the best glue job.
the quality of the flip and the barcode scanning legit are my main concerns