Snagged A Few Special Items On National Day 1 PLUS A BUNCH OF BBCE BOOTH PHOTOS OF UNOPENED
70ToppsFanatic
Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭✭
Was disappointed I could not exhibit this year, but at least I could attend a few of the days and see friends (and find a little more to add to my collection).
Day 1 was not a huge day by volume for me. I only got 2 items (both at BBCE), but they were special for me:
1) 1970 Topps Cello Pack Series 6, PSA 9 with Mays on Top
You all know my obsession with the 1970 set, so the second I saw this one in Steve's case I knew it was going to be mine.
2) 1962 Topps Cello Pack Series 1, ungraded with Gil Hodges on Top
I've explained my personal connection to Gil in prior posts, so to see a 50+ year old unopened pack with Gil on top in Steve's case was
really an emotional moment for me.
And here are a few dozen shots of what the BBCE 2000 square ft. booth looked like (before things started being sold off like wildfire). ENJOY.
Day 1 was not a huge day by volume for me. I only got 2 items (both at BBCE), but they were special for me:
1) 1970 Topps Cello Pack Series 6, PSA 9 with Mays on Top
You all know my obsession with the 1970 set, so the second I saw this one in Steve's case I knew it was going to be mine.
2) 1962 Topps Cello Pack Series 1, ungraded with Gil Hodges on Top
I've explained my personal connection to Gil in prior posts, so to see a 50+ year old unopened pack with Gil on top in Steve's case was
really an emotional moment for me.
And here are a few dozen shots of what the BBCE 2000 square ft. booth looked like (before things started being sold off like wildfire). ENJOY.
Dave
0
Comments
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Nice pickups too!
Thanx for taking the time to share.
2K for a 79T wax box? A few years ago one could've had a box for around 300 bucks all day long.
<< <i>Wow Dave - compared to what's on his web - this is like nirvana!
Nice pickups too!
Thanx for taking the time to share.
2K for a 79T wax box? A few years ago one could've had a box for around 300 bucks all day long. >>
Mike, you can get 2 wax TRAYS for about $300 now....(and hopefully we will....LOL)
Dave
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Will BBCE add a lot of these items to their website when they return?
My guess is most if not all of that stuff will never make it back to the store
I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
Jeff
BBCE has posted 101 photos of their booth on their Facebook page. In case anyone hadn't noticed! Great stuff.
<< <i>I just LOVE this time of the year! Great pics, thank you!
Will BBCE add a lot of these items to their website when they return? >>
They have in past years. I'm already counting my change in the event that one of the 12 or so things I want make it back from national.
2600-3500
It really doesn't seem that long ago when I was buying both of these in the 250-350 range
Awesome! Totally jealous of you guys as I waste away in my office at work!
Also, thanks for sharing the pics!
Jeremy
<< <i>Question and by asking I don't mean to imply that what they are doing is the wrong way to do things but why does BBCE hang on to so much stuff and save it for the national? There has to be a reason other than ego (I hope). But it seems strange to keep some of that very pricy material in storage for X amount of months rather than getting that money X amount of months ago and putting it into new product and moving that cycle along quicker. >>
I wouldnt presume to speak for Steve, but The National is their biggest event of the year by far and as the premiere dealer for vintage unopened product, you want to have a wide and impressive array of product for the event.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
BBCE booth is consigned items, not inventory. I know some
consigners desire that their items be offered at the show.
Prices at the show tend to be a it stronger.
Dave
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Question and by asking I don't mean to imply that what they are doing is the wrong way to do things but why does BBCE hang on to so much stuff and save it for the national? There has to be a reason other than ego (I hope). But it seems strange to keep some of that very pricy material in storage for X amount of months rather than getting that money X amount of months ago and putting it into new product and moving that cycle along quicker. >>
I wouldnt presume to speak for Steve, but The National is their biggest event of the year by far and as the premiere dealer for vintage unopened product, you want to have a wide and impressive array of product for the event. >>
I think the challenge is getting the new product to cycle in. I seem to remember a comment somewhere by Reed several months back that they were already setting product aside for national. So that might be 6 months of cherry picking to get that kind of inventory.
<< <i>Question and by asking I don't mean to imply that what they are doing is the wrong way to do things but why does BBCE hang on to so much stuff and save it for the national? There has to be a reason other than ego (I hope). But it seems strange to keep some of that very pricy material in storage for X amount of months rather than getting that money X amount of months ago and putting it into new product and moving that cycle along quicker. >>
I think the problem is finding new product, not needing the money to cycle in. Consider the storage cost as their advertising budget. An impressive display at National probably attracts new customers throughout the year from all over the country and further extends their reach beyond the Chicagoland area.
I understand they're well known on this forum and probably among hardcore unopened collectors elsewhere, but to be honest, I'd never heard of them until I joined this forum. I'm sure it's the same for many who are visiting the National for the first time.
and $24K for a 1971 series 2 box, WOW!!! that is 1k per. He is advertising buying them at 12K. I have 18 mint packs from a box I bought years ago, anyone want some at $600 per LOL
Current obsession, all things Topps 1969 - 1972
Jmaciu's Collection
<< <i>Any great card pics or are we just getting "clothes-on" shots
You crack me up. Here's a pic from the National I know you'll appreciate (I'm not there but someone I know sent this along)...
(And my 1.5 is still nicer front than the Herpolsheimer and Delgado!
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>Is that a 52 topps pack I see in one of the pics? >>
1954, I believe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is that a 52 topps pack I see in one of the pics? >>
1954, I believe. >>
Yes, 1954.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
That's a lota cardboard crack!
<< <i>Awesome 1970 cello!! I foresee a Willie Mays in the first group of 11 cards
and $24K for a 1971 series 2 box, WOW!!! that is 1k per. He is advertising buying them at 12K. I have 18 mint packs from a box I bought years ago, anyone want some at $600 per LOL >>
John, if your offer was for baseball, I'd be all over it!
congrats to Steve and all of those who are profiting from the current price trends. for those buying...well..
Anyone who was at the show know what grade this pack is????
<< <i>While it's cool stuff, I still SMH at the prices. Unopened is at completely ridiculous prices. That is not a slam at BBCE. That's my opinion of the unopened market in general. >>
+1 - while i understand how hard some of this is to find now, there's still got to be some connection to reality in terms of what's potentially housed in the packs.
at $750 a pack for 86-87 fleer basketball, there's literally no way to recoup your money unless you hit a jordan in every single pack.
oh sure if you want to argue that the PSA 10 MJ will pull in $10k, fine - but you dropped $30k on a box so you're going to need at least 2 of those PLUS how many other cards in 10s to just break even? think about this way, a PSA 10 SET probably runs somewhere $35-40K, so that's kind of the target area required to make these make any sense based on break.
obviously people aren't buying these sorts of things to break with any regularity, but I still contend the contents are eventually what have to matter
i also understand people are paying those prices right now and if you can get it you should, but we've all seen this before many times over - like most collecting trends, this one is eventually going to end very badly for a lot of people
sure wish i could have been there to see it, though - that display of theirs is unbelievable - how many people have just passed out and fallen down while looking at it, much less catching a deep enough breath to reach for the wallet?
have fun folks!
<< <i>
<< <i>While it's cool stuff, I still SMH at the prices. Unopened is at completely ridiculous prices. That is not a slam at BBCE. That's my opinion of the unopened market in general. >>
+1 - while i understand how hard some of this is to find now, there's still got to be some connection to reality in terms of what's potentially housed in the packs. >>
Bringing logic and reason into an unopened discussion never ends well in this crowd. I'll take two crisp 79T sets over a 79T wax tray all day, every day and twice on Sunday.
I understand the argument re sets vs unopened but the comparison is apples and oranges. The inherent value in unopened is inextricably linked to the packaging itself, the state of packs in their unopened state. Why are Star Wars toys in blister packs worth much more than the figure itself even in mint condition? Because of the scarcity of finding that figure in its original state. There's a special magical allure in unopened product that will always appeal to colectors but not all collectors are drawn to that and that's fine, too. The hobby is big enough for all kinds of collectors, even that shiny modern crap.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Bounce- it is very clear that you think unopened is a bad investment and a bad purchase. I have no idea what you collect but I could say the exact same thing about your collection. Your position is logical when speaking about cracking unopened and is completely valid but most of the stuff you are talking about is not being cracked. Some of these boxes from 1975 and newer are being opened for pack breaks but more collectors are picking up boxes to hold for their private collections. I am not sure how you think unopened is any different than graded cards or set building. You have said you think it is going to end badly for those who purchase/collect unopened. I believe that every market will correct itself but things will have to go really wrong for a collapse which you predict. A collapse in the unopened market would not be a good thing for anyone in sportscard market. They are all tied together so we all will lose. >>
i don't know that i agree with much of what you said here, so i'll go ahead and be more specific
i'm not saying that unopened is a bad purchase, there are still some justifiable buys out there for sure and some unopened that i think actually does have good appreciation potential in light of what seems to be going on now. i even get the hundred bucks a pack type of stuff, because it's not enough money quite to discourage the occasional purchase. but for the higher end items, and i'm specifically picking on 86/87 fleer here but i could easily find others, i think it could be very problematic down the road. $750 for a pack is generally outside the budget the majority of collectors especially when you consider the alternative of what it could buy. it won't even require a crash necessarily, liquidity sometimes just dries up - happens all the time. the high end wax is like high end cars or real estate or whatever - there's a small market that can afford it and they sometimes drive prices - until they don't or they're ready to sell.
i get that most of these aren't getting cracked, what i'm challenging is whether there will be a big enough and sustainable enough market of people who just want to look at these things. yes there's some, but i don't know that there's enough for the long term. how many of us could realistically throw down $20-30k for a box of cards? that market is very small in the grand scheme of things, and let's say that a case or two of 86/87 fleer DOES appear magically one day - you think the $30k is gonna hold? i say no freaking way it will - just 1 case of it could cut those box prices by 20% or more easily, because if there's 1 then there might be another, and another, and so on.
i think graded cards, particularly from the 60s and back and especially HOF RCs is a MUCH different thing than what we're talking about here. new collectors start into graded sets and RC collections every single day, and there's high quality stuff still available at readily affordable prices, especially if you're willing to be patient. we've seen the buy the card threads here, but i'd tell you even just buying the number can still be good. you don't have to mortgage your house to put something together in that realm. to do a series of unopened wax though, just reaching back into the mid 70s, is tens of thousands of dollars now.
and while i do agree that the boxes and the cards are linked together, i think my point survives - there has to be some likelihood of a break even pricing, even if it's unlikely. impossible is what it's become, though, so if you think these unopened prices are really more accurate, then i would suggest you should buy the heck out of the high grade commons and sets from these things because they will absolutely have to trend up if the current trend persists. it won't be as fast, but it will have to happen otherwise they'll be disconnected.
if they're disconnected, which market do you think will correct first, unopened or singles? you know what my vote is.
The box I am completely baffled by is the 75-76 WHA. $30k. Even though it may be the only one of its kind, you would think that there should be some relationship to the break-up value. Even if every card graded a PSA 10, would you be able to recoup $30k plus grading fees? I just don't know if there is s wealthy WHA fan that would be willing to pay that amount just to be able to say they have an unopened box. In comparison, they have the 85-86 OPC box at $4k and a Lemieux PSA 10 just sold for $5k on Ebay.
Thank you for posting the pics. I hope you're having a great time.
End of hockey forum post.
I believe the run up on unopened (late 60's to early 80's) is based upon the maturation of the kids of that era and:
1) Their increased disposable income;
2) Their increased demand for nostalgia and the associated excitement of feeling like a kid again;
3) The fact that they most likely have the cards in their collection already;
4) Unopened, particularly the boxes, are visually appealing;and
5) The unopened provides the additional excitement of re-living the entire experience from seeing them in the store to opening them.
That was on the demand side. The supply side is obviously scarce as a significant portion of what had remained unopened has probably been opened since the advent of grading and the desirability of high grade copies has grown over the last two decades.
The only other thing I can say is that the photos provided by members on this site (on so many different threads) are incredible card porn. I thank all of you for your contributions.