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What would you do?
genesis156
Posts: 42 ✭✭
Ok, I am new to the forum (first post). I have been reading the recent PCGS vs NGC thread and have a specific, related question that I'll throw out for advice.
I consider myself a collector/investor. As a kid I loved collecting coins and was always fascinated with Morgans. I recently got back into the game. I'm not really building a collection, I just like to buy coins in a certain price range that really appeal to me and I think have potential to increase in value. I like to think I have a minimum five year time horizon, but obviously circumstances can change. Eighty five percent of the coins I own are PCGS, fifteen percent NGC.
Earlier this year I bought (auction) a MS-67 DMPL Morgan in a NGC slab. Paid five figures for it. While I plan to hold it, I'm always thinking about exit strategies. I have "bought in" to the fact that PGCS is the holder of choice and usually stay away from NGC, but I loved this coin. I would like to get it into a PCGS slab but I don't think it will cross at 67 (If it would cross, someone a lot smarter than me would have bid much more than I did). If it crosses at 66+, I can live with that, but not at 66.
Would you:
1) Do nothing, leave it in the NGC holder till it's time to sell
2) Send it to PGCS with a stip to cross with a minimum 66+
3) Any other advice?
Thanks
I consider myself a collector/investor. As a kid I loved collecting coins and was always fascinated with Morgans. I recently got back into the game. I'm not really building a collection, I just like to buy coins in a certain price range that really appeal to me and I think have potential to increase in value. I like to think I have a minimum five year time horizon, but obviously circumstances can change. Eighty five percent of the coins I own are PCGS, fifteen percent NGC.
Earlier this year I bought (auction) a MS-67 DMPL Morgan in a NGC slab. Paid five figures for it. While I plan to hold it, I'm always thinking about exit strategies. I have "bought in" to the fact that PGCS is the holder of choice and usually stay away from NGC, but I loved this coin. I would like to get it into a PCGS slab but I don't think it will cross at 67 (If it would cross, someone a lot smarter than me would have bid much more than I did). If it crosses at 66+, I can live with that, but not at 66.
Would you:
1) Do nothing, leave it in the NGC holder till it's time to sell
2) Send it to PGCS with a stip to cross with a minimum 66+
3) Any other advice?
Thanks
genesis156
0
Comments
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Welcome to the forums!
If you could provide a date/mintmark and possibly some pictures. I'm certain you'll get useful advice, but it's impossible to weigh in without seeing the coin. If you want to cross at the same grade you can always put a minimum to cross. If it doesn't make it, it'll remain in it's original holder. You'll just be out fees and such.
2. What is the date/mm of the coin?
3. Any downgrade in a crossover will probably cost you money. Getting the DMPL from PCGS may be more difficult than the 66+ or 67.
<< <i> Paid five figures for it. >>
Out of my comfort zone and budget, but 2.
Ask for a crossover. If it doesn't
crossover at the same grade, PCGS
will return the coin in it's orginal
holder.
<< <i>Ok, I am new to the forum (first post). I have been reading the recent PCGS vs NGC thread and have a specific, related question that I'll throw out for advice.
I consider myself a collector/investor. As a kid I loved collecting coins and was always fascinated with Morgans. I recently got back into the game. I'm not really building a collection, I just like to buy coins in a certain price range that really appeal to me and I think have potential to increase in value. I like to think I have a minimum five year time horizon, but obviously circumstances can change. Eighty five percent of the coins I own are PCGS, fifteen percent NGC.
Earlier this year I bought (auction) a MS-67 DMPL Morgan in a NGC slab. Paid five figures for it. While I plan to hold it, I'm always thinking about exit strategies. I have "bought in" to the fact that PGCS is the holder of choice and usually stay away from NGC, but I loved this coin. I would like to get it into a PCGS slab but I don't think it will cross at 67 (If it would cross, someone a lot smarter than me would have bid much more than I did). If it crosses at 66+, I can live with that, but not at 66.
Would you:
1) Do nothing, leave it in the NGC holder till it's time to sell
2) Send it to PGCS with a stip to cross with a minimum 66+
3) Any other advice?
Thanks >>
Unless it was recently slabbed, if it could cross at PCGS it would have been done long ago. Option 2 if it will be about a wash value-wise. Or send it to CAC first.
#1 - based on the fact that I don't do well with hypothetical futures
...I consider myself a collector/investor. As a kid I loved collecting coins and was always fascinated with Morgans. I recently got back into the game...
Would you:
1) Do nothing, leave it in the NGC holder till it's time to sell
2) Send it to PGCS with a stip to cross with a minimum 66+
3) Any other advice?
Rethink your future "game plan".
Maybe you can require the DMPL as well as 66+ min?
All I really wanted to say was
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
PCGS is running a Special till September on crossovers…submit the coin to cross at current grade and if it does not cross then you will not be charged the fee, it will only cost you shipping. Why not
Erik
Profit is made on the buy side 99% of the time (this is why dealers rarely pay retail) which is hard for collector to manage without special market knowledge which most people new or freshly back in the hobby do not posses. You can make money on the sell side but it often takes a long hold to wait out appreciation or adding value such as a sticker, better grade or a better holder (or better look but that is a different conversation).
You must find a niche on how to add value if you have any investment hopes. It does not sound like you are ready honestly to be swimming in those waters quite yet.
As a collector it is much more simple: buy what you like how you like it but be prepared to pay up for maxed out product if that is your preference. If looking for value you much learn to grade and look for opportunity for value left on the table and not subpar product that is sold at a discount.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Thanks
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Can you ask for + grade on a crossover? In this case cross at 66+ or better. I assumed the answer was no
Thanks
MJ >>
Actually I am pretty sure I can as long as it is a lower grade than the holder it's in.
Can't wait till I learn how reply (see above), post pics, and links.
The coin in question is an 1884-cc.
Thanks again
Secondly, 84-CC in PCGS guide says (which I do not trust) says $30k. Heritage sold a PCGS for MS67DMPL for $20,700 in '09 and sold a NCG MS67 DMPL for $16,500 in '14.
Then, as Glick pointed out, and if you crack and submit to PCGS and lose the DMPL, even at 67PL it's guide price is $7500. I found no auction records to support that but I didn't really dig deep. Additional records for PCGS coins in 66+PL and DMPL are ~$2,000.
In my opinion based on this, a $21k on a potential for a $5k gain or worst case $2,500 on the downside for a $14k loss. For me - too much risk for a potential $4k gain.
But like they say, sometimes you've got to roll the dice.
<< <i>Submit it as is in the NGC holder.
Ask for a crossover. If it doesn't
crossover at the same grade, PCGS
will return the coin in it's orginal
holder. >>
<< <i>Yeah, I don't think I want to crack it out. It sounds like pcgs is really squirrelly on the dmpl designation. If anything, may send it in to see if it would possibly cross. By the way, what's the 3/0 you mentioned? >>
What that refers to is population numbers for the grades. 3/0 means that NGC has graded 3 MS67DMPL with 0 finer. PCGS is also 3/0 at that level. It is a very tough grade to obtain.
<< <i>Number 4, take the logical path that is backed up by the real world grade of the coin. Keep in mind you a few crack outs are sometimes needed to get what you want. If it is marginal (for grade) sell in NGC holder and reinvest.
Profit is made on the buy side 99% of the time (this is why dealers rarely pay retail) which is hard for collector to manage without special market knowledge which most people new or freshly back in the hobby do not posses. You can make money on the sell side but it often takes a long hold to wait out appreciation or adding value such as a sticker, better grade or a better holder (or better look but that is a different conversation).
You must find a niche on how to add value if you have any investment hopes. It does not sound like you are ready honestly to be swimming in those waters quite yet.
As a collector it is much more simple: buy what you like how you like it but be prepared to pay up for maxed out product if that is your preference. If looking for value you much learn to grade and look for opportunity for value left on the table and not subpar product that is sold at a discount. >>
This is good advice
Latin American Collection
if its in a older generation ngc holder, id leave it be
<< <i>What would you do?
Would you:
1) Do nothing, leave it in the NGC holder till it's time to sell
2) Send it to PGCS with a stip to cross with a minimum 66+
3) Any other advice? >>
I'd start by posting some pictures of the coin
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
The CDN CMI shows PCGS at 82.73% vs 82.70% for NGC. That is not any kind of difference to justify a downgrade no matter what kind of BS some guy on the bourse gives you. Don't let yourself get ripped on the "its in the wrong holder" ploy.
I was going to look up what the bluesheet gives on it for both but you neglected to include date and MM (you need to include this). I would be curious what the NGC price is vs the PCGS price if I knew Date / MM.
Hint: Many dealers price their PCGS / NGC coins the same and I know of two major CW / NN advertisers who do. Consequently I see no reason whatsoever for me to price mine differently (it at the same part of the grade range) either and the CDN CMI confirms this (obviously pieces at different parts of the grade range I will price differently).
Suit yourself, its your money your hobby and I completely understand if you want in one holder or another. I am just saying how I would handle it.
Update: If its an 1884-CC NGC 67 DMPL the NGC price guide says $27 K. No way you want to get this downgraded as it would be huge hit on market value. You want to play the crossover game to win, not lose. Also don't let somebody browbeat you into their low offer "based on auction records." These I regard as wholesale at best. This is what someone liquidated the coin for / blew it out. If it were mine (and I felt it was very nice for the grade) would put it out in my case at a show priced at $29,995 (let them talk me down to $27,000 cash). If they want to trade, would take 14 Generic MS65 Saints at CDN Bid which is 2000 each, total $28000, a super deal for them.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>I would not cross it for any less than its NGC Grade. I do not play the crossover game to lose.
The CDN CMI shows PCGS at 82.73% vs 82.70% for NGC. That is not any kind of difference to justify a downgrade no matter what kind of BS some guy on the bourse gives you. Don't let yourself get ripped on the "its in the wrong holder" ploy.
I was going to look up what the bluesheet gives on it for both but you neglected to include date and MM (you need to include this). I would be curious what the NGC price is vs the PCGS price if I knew Date / MM.
Hint: Many dealers price their PCGS / NGC coins the same and I know of two major CW / NN advertisers who do. Consequently I see no reason whatsoever for me to price mine differently (it at the same part of the grade range) either and the CDN CMI confirms this (obviously pieces at different parts of the grade range I will price differently).
Suit yourself, its your money your hobby and I completely understand if you want in one holder or another. I am just saying how I would handle it.
Update: If its an 1884-CC NGC 67 DMPL the NGC price guide says $27 K. No way you want to get this downgraded as it would be huge hit on market value. You want to play the crossover game to win, not lose. Also don't let somebody browbeat you into their low offer "based on auction records." These I regard as wholesale at best. This is what someone liquidated the coin for / blew it out. If it were mine (and I felt it was very nice for the grade) would put it out in my case at a show priced at $29,995 (let them talk me down to $27,000 cash). If they want to trade, would take 14 Generic MS65 Saints at CDN Bid which is 2000 each, total $28000, a super deal for them. >>
The part about "play the crack out game to win" is solid enough advice but the rest is suspect and overly optimistic IMO. While it might happen, I am pretty sure I have never met the person in the industry who would trade 14 generic saints in 65 for a condition "rarity" common as dirt coin in NGC plastic when the price chart drops off like the grand cannon in the under grade. I believe you are over hyping the mans liquidity posture by speaking form a prospective of what you (a dealer) would hypothetical do if you had the coin in retail inventory, knowing most likely that isn't the type of coin you would seek out. The auction records you dismiss are most likely what it took to get a cash offer for such a coin and more relevant to the OP in all likelihood.
Lance.
Also would recommend the OP not be buying 5 figure coins after "getting back in" to the coin game. High risk behavior.
Here's my toned 84 CC. Good luck to you!!
Elcontodor, What's the PM function?
Cracking is generally a better bet. But for toned coins and conditional rarities where the spread is great, it's a big gamble.
Enabling PM's (private messages) can be done by editing your profile. Easy.
Lance.
<< <i>Can you ask for + grade on a crossover? In this case cross at 66+ or better. I assumed the answer was no >>
I have done so on several occasions, and in the majority of cases the coin has come back in the lower grade with a plus.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Five or ten years down the road, who knows what the grading market will be? One thing you learn about markets is that they are not often stable.
There is no way that coin is going to cross 67DM. I am afraid you are buried in that coin, for more than 5 years. I hope I am wrong, but 66 would be a good grade based on PCGS standards today. Here is the large image. Or the Heritage auction for really big images HERE: