Do Copper Coins in Slabs Graded RED Darken Over Time?

winesteven

How concerned should I be in buying copper coins in slabs graded RED? Do they darken over time? Will they become RB (Red Brown)? Are there any precautions I should take in purchasing and in storing? Thank you.

mdwoods

There is always a chance they will turn. Keeping them in a low humidity environment will help. Some coins seem to be very stable in older holders.

brg5658

Yes. Most copper will mellow with age. The rate of change is highly dependent on storage conditions (humidity, temperature, etc). Also, keep away from places like gun safes that may contain sulfur compounds or HVACs.

Intercept shield storage materials will provide some protection, but your best bet is to keep your copper in a dark, dry, temperature controlled area.

It is possible for really old copper to still be quite red if it is stored carefully.

johnny9434

yes in due time. like it was said keep it in a low humidity area best wishes

telephoto1

The short answer is, yes. Virtually all copper can and likely will gradually change color or darken to varying degrees at some point. Even metal impurities can cause color change/spotting/etc. regardless of the environment in which the coin is stored.

illini420

Probably yes. But whether it turns in 10 years, 100 years or 1000 years is not clear and likely depends a good deal on how you handle and care for the coins, even in the slabs.

There's plenty of bright red copper that is 100-200 years old out there, so there's no reason to think your bright red copper will turn brown anytime soon if it is well cared for.

lkeigwin

No, not necessarily. There are thousands of red copper coins, more than a hundred years old, many in very old holders, that are still have their mint red color.

Proper storage is certainly important. I keep my most valuable ones in Intercept boxes in a climate-controlled vault.
Lance.

Wolf359

PCGS withdrew their guarantees on copper color years ago, because copper does turn.

rhedden

Coins that were dipped some time before grading are the ones most likely to turn splotchy brown in the slab. Unfortunately, some people are so good at dipping and recoloring copper that the grading services miss one here and there.

lkeigwin

<< <i>PCGS withdrew their guarantees on copper color years ago, because copper does turn. >>

Well let's say that PCGS tightened their color guarantee because copper can turn, and their guarantee exposure was too great. Their guarantee still exists for coins graded before 2010 that have not been resold since then.

Again, red copper can remain red longer than any of us will live. But there's no denying that copper is more unstable than silver and gold.
Lance.

Unknown

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giantsfan20

Was wondering the statement by Scott Travers in the Coin collectors survival manual "Sell you cent collection if you live in FL because of temperature. He claims that they may turn black spots has anybody had that or other problems with copper type coins thier? Is that statement accurate or just being overly dramatic with that type of statement.

ricko

I lived in Florida for five years.... had no problem with copper coins loose, in albums or slabs..... of course, I did have humidity control in the house. Cheers, RickO

Timbuk3

I have a 1908 IHC graded PCGS MS-67RD OGH.
Guess what ? It's no longer red. Not even RB !!!

Type2

I had some Red's in 2x2's pulled them out and put in flips sent them off to are host came back red br happened offten so most of my copper go's in for express grading now. But yes they do turn but alot slower.

telephoto1

Back in the day it used to be that copper dealers and collectors avoided shows in Florida, Louisiana due to humidity issues where raw inventory in particular would start spotting not long after returning from the show. Better humidity control at venues and better holders/slabs tend to ameliorate this problem now, but there are still some with trepidation over making a copper purchase in said areas.

Kudbegud

OK, color change is inevitable but the time frame is unknown.
Another question: since the slab are sonically sealed aren't they air tight? Temperature would still be a factor but humidity should not be if the slab is indeed sealed.

AMRC

Yes. It is just a matter of when.

ajaan

It's my understanding that slabs are not air tight.

BigMoose

winesteven, welcome to the Boards. PM sent.

LindeDad

<< <i>OK, color change is inevitable but the time frame is unknown.
Another question: since the slab are sonically sealed aren't they air tight? Temperature would still be a factor but humidity should not be if the slab is indeed sealed. >>



Break one and you will find they are only partially sealed.

illini420

The slabs are certainly NOT air tight. I don't think we would want them to be air tight either. If they were, there would still be air trapped inside the slab with the coin. When temperature and/or pressure changed significantly (like if you went on an airplane or shipped them from a hot place to a cold place), you might have some condensation on the inside of the slab if it were totally sealed. Wouldn't make for good coin viewing if your slab was fogged up on the inside and it would also not be good for the coin. Can't really do a vacuum inside the slab either as that is much easier said than done and you would likely need to make the slabs out of glass to do it effectively.

WaterSport

OK - everyone is talking here seems to have no experience with copper turning so let me add my story for what it is worth.

I bought 80% Of my Lincoln collection between 2002 and 2006. At that time I was living in a 5th floor condominium just outside San Juan, Puerto Rico. The Condo faced the ocean as it was on the beach.We ran air conditioners only at night, during the summer. The rest of the time the balcony doors and windows in the 2 bedrooms that faced the ocean were open. The Front door had a wrought iron gate. Thus the front door to the hall was open and the gate locked all day long and some evenings for ventilation. To top it all off, I was across the highway from the tarmac of the airport. About every other week I had to clean the white tile floors because the combination of jet A fuel and salt spray would make the floor slippery and your bare feet sooty. Likewise I had to wash down the back of my dresser, nightstand, and inside the closet about every three months with a bleach solution to remove the mildew that grew is this humid environment.

My slabs were NOT in PCGS boxes. They were in Eagle notebooks - stacked in the closet. The metal parts of the three ring binders rusted by the time I left and thats why I switched to boxes.NONE of my coins turned during or since that time. We hear time and again about this and yes, even PCGS all not guarantee copper from turning, but my point is that it happens far and few between to be concerned about - at least from my experience.

WS

Dave99B

Yes, they will, albeit very slowly, depending on conditions. But what the heck, collect what you love!

Dave

magikbilly

<< <i>The slabs are certainly NOT air tight. I don't think we would want them to be air tight either. If they were, there would still be air trapped inside the slab with the coin. When temperature and/or pressure changed significantly (like if you went on an airplane or shipped them from a hot place to a cold place), you might have some condensation on the inside of the slab if it were totally sealed. Wouldn't make for good coin viewing if your slab was fogged up on the inside and it would also not be good for the coin. Can't really do a vacuum inside the slab either as that is much easier said than done and you would likely need to make the slabs out of glass to do it effectively. >>




This.

Not sure why so many still think the are airtight?

Eric

TwoSides2aCoin

The reality is we wanted to use "RED" to describe it's FRESH look. Unfortunately , over time, FRESH means something else. RB becomes the new "fresh" because of the grade, not the color.. Essentially a really dark red goes orange and that's when it (man's tongue) drips with lust….er , Um desire for really dark red
… And if it changes, it's good. Change is good. When a cent sells for $10,000.00 because of it's "look" instead of it's designation, color is just an added benefit. But this is a "simpleton" thinking. Grade is everything. Color is secondary. Change is imminent. RED will darken, over time. My personal opinion is , given enough time, copper will turn green. And some, "with envy".

Elcontador

The only RD copper I have is an IHC in PC 5 RD. It's in an OGH, I bought it in 1998, and it looks exactly the same sixteen years later. If it's RD and not in an OGH, I won't buy it.

WildIdea

I just buy them 65 BN to start with and not worry about it

BillJones

I have found slabs to be surprisingly good for preserving red on copper. As others have said storing the coins in a dark, humidity controlled environment at a constant temperature are key factors.

One thing that is as key is that you start with a coin that has ORIGINAL RED. Coins that have been processed quite often revert to their brown coin within a few months to a year. The reason is that the surface that was protecting them was stripped leaving virgin metal that is very prone to toning. Sometimes it is hard to tell if a red coin is original or processed. That's why I look for coins in old slabs. If it has been stable for a decade or more, chances are it will be stable in the future if you store it properly. Buying a red copper coin in a new slab can be risky.

Walkerguy21D

I apologize for not reading all the posts in this thread, but just wanted to add I saw a couple late date
large cents in rattler holders at the Summer FUN show yesterday that were graded Red, and were still glowing red -
guessing they haven't changed color in all the years since they were slabbed.