Home› U.S. Coin Forum

Do you view obviously dipped coins as "problem" coins?

291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
My own view on this has shifted somewhat in the past few years. I used to be more tolerant of AU and better coins that had obviously been dipped. Today I view them as "problem" coins to be avoided. Perhaps I have just seen one too many Seated or Barber Half, among others, that is obviously dipped.

What is your feeling on this?
All glory is fleeting.

Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know if I see them as problem coins but I still avoid them.
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,281 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The operative term is "obviously dipped," which to me = impaired surfaces which = problem.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can deal with a AU58 twentieth century issue that's been dipped but not dipped out.

    I'll also make an exception on a mint error since each is unique and the error community dips them to showcase the mint error.

    Other then the examples mentioned above I have no desire to purchase anything dipped.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I prefer original or "original now" coins, but I don't reject them out of hand.

    All you are going to do with these attitudes is encourage the coin doctors. If you want everything toned, that's what you are going to get an a lot of coins will be ruined in the process. The same thing was true years ago when most collectors wanted "white coins."

    Here is an "original now" (sort of) coin. PCGS graded it PR-64, Cameo. It's be best I've been able to find in what has turned out to be a very difficult date, the 1875-P Twenty Cent Piece. It looks better in person.

    imageimage

    I know you and I would like them all to be like this, but sometimes that's not possible.

    imageimage

    And there is this one, which totally original, but it has the spot (there are smaller ones also) which I am convinced is of mint origins. I suppose it's a reject, but it has original surfaces.

    imageimage

    And finally there is this 1795 dollar, which has been dipped many years ago, but I find pleasing to the eye.

    image
    image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,569 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Emphatically...Yes.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Des PCGS slab dipped coins? Does CAC sticker some of these slabbed coins? If the answer is yes, then dipped coins can be market acceptable.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,569 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Des PCGS slab dipped coins? Does CAC sticker some of these slabbed coins? If the answer is yes, then dipped coins can be market acceptable. >>


    How does that answer the OP's question?

    They may be "market acceptable", but they are still problem coins in my opinion.

    In other words, "market acceptable" does not mean "MidLifeCrisis acceptable".
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If not dipped out, no I don't see them as a "problem." Will I avoid many of them? Yes, but I did recently buy a 20th century coin in PC AU-58 CAC that has amazing luster and more luster than a PC 66+ CAC I have that I like quite a bit.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    So long as there is still luster showing, I do not consider dipped coins as problem coins. I will not pay as much for a dipped coin as I will for a nicely toned coin. Ugly toning and dipped is often a tossup for me.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780 ✭
    Obviously? Yes.

    Eric
  • gypsyleagypsylea Posts: 193 ✭✭
    Obviously dipped to me means probably recently dipped and that means a coin that is, IMHO, at increased risk of turning. That is a problem, though all things considered I might take the risk.
    Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    A lustrous 20th century dipped white MS coin is acceptable to me, depending on the luster quality. A dipped Franklin half, for example, looks like your standard modern silver coin. To a lesser extent, but still acceptable is an obviously dipped Standing Liberty quarter. On the other hand, a blast white Liberty Seated or Bust silver coin looks odd and out of place.

    I use the word "acceptable" which is a far cry from "preferable", but I wouldn't go so far as to call them "problem" coins.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>On the other hand, a blast white Liberty Seated or Bust silver coin looks odd and out of place. >>



    image They look like Gallery Mint creations.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's no single answer for me, and it varies mainly depending on age and grade.

    Dipping always bothers me at lower grades, especially below AU, and I avoid them.
    It doesn't bother me when MS Morgan and Peace dollars are dipped, but I hate the way just about everything else looks.
    If the first two numbers in the date are 17 or less I won't even pick it up, no matter what the grade.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭
    An "obviously" dipped coin is a coin which should have never been dipped and as such represents a problem coin.

    A coin which can be proven that it has been dipped may not always be a problem coin.

    Coins in general are only problem coins if a potential buyer see's them as such.

    For example, to me, the 1992-S Silver Proof DDO Kennedy that Caleb Clough has in his Proof Kennedy Collection is a "problem coin" for me in that I didn't find it and I can't afford it. Therefore, my problem.

    Some other 1992-S Silver Proof Kennedy, dipped or not, isn't a problem coin (for me).

    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,651 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kinda funny you asked. A gentleman came to me with 19 Morgan dollars yesterday after I was closed. I met him outside the shop. We talked for a few minutes , and as I went through the coins one by one, I pulled out 4 of them. He said, "you like those ? " I said, " ha, Not… these are all previously dipped. see how they turned gun metal blueish grey ? " He says, "yeah, I guess they're not new like I thought ". I said, that's kind of a problem with numismatists (shiny things ), and most discerning collectors don't really like that look because it will never look normal again." image He said, "Oh, I see what you mean, now".

    The others were nasty , dirty and grimy. He wanted cash , and I didn't have it on me. I had to go to the refinery today to cover a check and get cash, but he didn't come back. Tales from the "stripped".

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    I think the "nice" coins are those that have not been dipped coins and still have luster and eye appeal -- those who haven't turned dark or mottled with the indication there might be surface damage beneath. I have always read threads like these with interest because this remains, for me, an unsettled issue. I think the notion of TPG helps segregate those coins that are market-acceptable based on their willingness to offer guarantee from those which are not. However, it is still the case that we collectors must decide what is worth saving and what is collectible. I don't hold the view that dipped coins must be smelted.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It depends.....

    18th century Bust material - Yikes. Stay away.

    Morgans, Mercs, Walkers, & Peace dollars - These poor things get dipped routinely. High-grade, original-looking coins aren't generally favored, even by many so-called advanced collectors. If you stick to originality here, be prepared for disappointment at sale time. If you want to be a dealer in these and only sell "original" coins, prepare to not sell much.....
  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eventually this question will be definitively answered, and hopefully everyone knows what way it will go. For those who don't, the answer is that obviously-dipped coins are not going to be in favor. They are not worth as much as "original' or even "questionable" surfaces coins now, and will be worth less in the future when so-called "market acceptable" tips away from the direction of accepting these problem coins. It is inevitable.
    PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:

    http://macrocoins.com
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,894 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So long as there is still luster showing, I do not consider dipped coins as problem coins. I will not pay as much for a dipped coin as I will for a nicely toned coin. Ugly toning and dipped is often a tossup for me. >>

    I like this answer best, I think.

    "Obviously dipped" sounds very negative...who wants a flat, white, lifeless coin? But I have also seen remarkably flashy early coins that have tremendous eye appeal. Thinking of some of Don Willis' Premium Collection from years ago. Obviously dipped. But unimpaired and not "problem" coins, IMO.
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    I consider all dipped or otherwise doctored coins to be of the problem variety.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>yes to me they are a problem coin. >>




    image
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭
    "obviously dipped" coins are a serious problem in my eyes.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't know if I see them as problem coins but I still avoid them. >>



    I'm not sure I see hungry, rabid wolverines as dangerous, but I still avoid them too!
    PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:

    http://macrocoins.com
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Those that say they view dipped coins as problem coins......I look forward to seeing your new purchases that have been obviously dipped with secondary toning. imageimage
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's been dipped and I don't care image

    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭
    If they have luster like the coin Broadstruck just posted I don't think of them as a problem.
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭


    I once dropped a coin in the dip jar and it took a minute or more to get it out because I didn't want to put my hand in and grab it.


    It didn't look "dipped out" particularly . To get that "dipped out" look how long does it need to stay in? image


    Is multiple short dippings worse than a long dunk?
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,894 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, it was dipped. I like it nonetheless.
    Lance.

    imageimage
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It's been dipped and I don't care image

    image >>


    Wow, I wouldn't care either!
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,432 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since there is no coin which I HAVE to have, I believe in being very critical in selecting a coin to acquire. In no situation that I recall was the right example a coin with obvious dipping.

    Latin American Collection

  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,552 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you refuse to buy AU and above dipped 18th and non-Morgan 19th century silver then you are not going to be able to buy many coins...it's that simple. Such coins were basically unsalable during the mid to later decades of the 20th century until they had been dipped white. Dealers did this as a "while you wait" service when you asked. (and often, even when you didn't ask)

    At a MINIMUM, 90 percent of the "original" bust and seat material shown on here has been dipped at least once and then retoned. As Bill Jones referred to above..."Original now" is about the best one can expect.
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • TomBTomB Posts: 22,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, but I do not require others to view them the same way.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would change the term "obviously dipped" to "dipped and stripped." I'd say a good 90% of MS 65 and better SLQs I have seen were dipped. Imo, this dipping did not reduce the eye appeal of said coins. However, I have seen MS 65 Trade and Seated $s which were dipped and stripped, which I would not want in my collection at any price.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Yeah, it was dipped. I like it nonetheless.
    Lance.

    imageimage >>



    Beautiful coin Lance.
    But.....with that blue on the dentils, if I sent that coin in to PCGS 5,000 times I would get it into 5,000 different Genuine holders.
    Sad but true.

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,412 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you refuse to buy AU and above dipped 18th and non-Morgan 19th century silver then you are not going to be able to buy many coins...it's that simple. Such coins were basically unsalable during the mid to later decades of the 20th century until they had been dipped white. Dealers did this as a "while you wait" service when you asked. (and often, even when you didn't ask)

    At a MINIMUM, 90 percent of the "original" bust and seat material shown on here has been dipped at least once and then retoned. As Bill Jones referred to above..."Original now" is about the best one can expect. >>



    So how many here can look at a coin and tell that it was dipped?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd say a good 90% of MS 65 and better SLQs I have seen were dipped. Imo, this dipping did not reduce the eye appeal of said coins. >>



    image

    Dipping on high end SLQ's is done as it visually blends the stacking or roll line seen running from ankle or shin to thigh, since a coin only has a minute to make a good impression during third party grading. Maybe not 90% but a very high percentage of all MS67 SLQ's I've viewed on the browse floor or at auction lot viewing have made a trip into a jar of dip.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If you refuse to buy AU and above dipped 18th and non-Morgan 19th century silver then you are not going to be able to buy many coins...it's that simple. Such coins were basically unsalable during the mid to later decades of the 20th century until they had been dipped white. Dealers did this as a "while you wait" service when you asked. (and often, even when you didn't ask)

    At a MINIMUM, 90 percent of the "original" bust and seat material shown on here has been dipped at least once and then retoned. As Bill Jones referred to above..."Original now" is about the best one can expect. >>



    So how many here can look at a coin and tell that it was dipped? >>



    Good question. I think I can at this point, but I am by no means an expert. Mark Feld taught me a lot about this issue. He would review coins for me at auction and say something like "dipped once but still lustrous and nice" or "dipped one too many times-pass." The 1824/various 50 c is a piece that to me has likely been dipped but is so nice that I would be proud to have it in my collection. The 1929 quarter is a just a bit too white for my taste and if it were a normal coin, I would pass. As an error, however, I think it has lots of appeal.

    Tom

  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So how many here can look at a coin and tell that it was dipped? >>



    It's actually not all that difficult, but there are many categories the post-dipped coins fall into. Most important is getting experience with known original coins to see what a coin is supposed to look like.
    PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:

    http://macrocoins.com
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>So how many here can look at a coin and tell that it was dipped? >>



    It's actually not all that difficult, but there are many categories the post-dipped coins fall into. Most important is getting experience with known original coins to see what a coin is supposed to look like. >>


    It can sometimes be extremely difficult or impossible to tell.
    If a coin were dipped once, maybe twenty years ago, and then allowed to gradually re-tone, most experts wouldn't know what to say. It really depends on the original surface of the coin and the success of the dipping procedure.
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,710 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>So how many here can look at a coin and tell that it was dipped? >>



    It's actually not all that difficult, but there are many categories the post-dipped coins fall into. Most important is getting experience with known original coins to see what a coin is supposed to look like. >>


    It can sometimes be extremely difficult or impossible to tell.
    If a coin were dipped once, maybe twenty years ago, and then allowed to gradually re-tone, most experts wouldn't know what to say. It really depends on the original surface of the coin and the success of the dipping procedure. >>



    This. You can have a layer of sulfur oxide on a silver coin, which when properly dipped, would disappear and the coin would look original. I've seen this done.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • JJSingletonJJSingleton Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is a dipped coin a problem coin for me? Yes.

    Is a dipped coin a problem coin in the market place? Not hardly. In fact the TPGs encourage the behavior to increase submissions and the two majors now dip coins for in some cases huge dollars. What a shame it is.

    Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia

    Findley Ridge Collection
    About Findley Ridge

  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>So how many here can look at a coin and tell that it was dipped? >>



    It's actually not all that difficult, but there are many categories the post-dipped coins fall into. Most important is getting experience with known original coins to see what a coin is supposed to look like. >>


    It can sometimes be extremely difficult or impossible to tell.
    If a coin were dipped once, maybe twenty years ago, and then allowed to gradually re-tone, most experts wouldn't know what to say. It really depends on the original surface of the coin and the success of the dipping procedure. >>



    It's not nearly as difficult, nor as inconsistent, as you're making it out to be.
    PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:

    http://macrocoins.com

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Format
SpoilerCodeQuote
Heading 2Heading 1
Emoji
:):D:(;):/:o:s:p:'(:|B):#:*<3o:)>:)
Url
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Home • U.S. Coin ForumComment As ...