<< <i>This situation for the seller is a good way for him to learn about coins >>
Nice spin, John!
It is only a lesson to him if someone reading the thread notifies him. In that case he will be barfing his baked beans.
It is fun to post our Ebay rips here (I have before), the other side is, an unknowing seller may find out that he lost a potential few hundred or in a couple of cases several thousand dollars on a listing.
An unfortunate (but fair I suppose), consequence of the internet era.
There are dealers I visit at every show because they have a tendency to undergrade or underprice, or know nothing about varieties. I cherrypick them for the coins they are selling, and I pay the price they ask. If I know more than them, that is their problem- they chose to put a price on the coins and sell them to me for that price. I post some of them here, and sometimes people say 'You Suck!'
To me this situation is exactly the same, and I don't see the ethical problem here. The seller listed the coin for a price. They clicked 'OK' on the prompt telling telling to make sure the coin is genuine. It was purchased for the price the seller asked. They didn't ask TDN what it was worth because they didn't know, and he didn't lowball them. This is an eBay cherrypick, and an awesome one. YOU SUCK, TDN.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
Lots of people surf through ebay raw coins searching for scarce varieties hoping for a rip. Often those coins get bid up to a fair market price by multiple searchers who identified the same unattributed coin. But what if someone wins one cheap. Is that person unethical?
What if you offer to sell you PQ coin to a dealer at a show, and even though you paid a premium for it the dealer whips out the gray sheet and offers a price back of bid fully intending to resell it at a big premium? Is he unethical? What if he buys the coin at gray sheet bid and then upgrades it? Is he unethical?
A great pick up at a surprisingly low Buy it Now price. I find it irrelevant if some on this forum seem to think that you a fiduciary responsibility to a seller on eBay. And you certainly don't owe a moral responsibility, either.
Many years ago we used to go to the bank to get rolls of coins which we would examine for keepers. If i had found a 1909-SVDB, I cannot imagine going to the banker and telling him he had a very valuable coin that was in the roll. Today, instead of going through bank rolls, we hunt down raw coins on eBay and roll the dice and hope they will straight grade. Is this not what coin collecting has been all about?
I find it refreshing that despite your great collection of Trade Dollars, you do not just acquire great coins at auction, but that you still have the same fun that you had hunting for coins for little more than face value (now melt value) many years ago. And to those socialists who castigate you for "not doing the right thing", they should spend their energy writing to Obama and praise him for not doing the right thing.
If Im looking at this correct, There was only one bid (TDN's) and anyone else could have bid as well.
Congrats on the nice score!
I remember TDN said during the Missouri Cabinet collection sale that he was able to buy a coin he wanted for something like half his max bid. Since he obviously ripped it from the Goldberg sale, its probably only fair for him to pay double his bid so that the goldbergs don't lose out on it. (gee whiz).
I think that's just damage from where the coin was placed on a rough surface (probably stone) to receive an obverse chopmark in that vicinity. Nice pick, TDN!
<< <i>I think that's just damage from where the coin was placed on a rough surface (probably stone) to receive an obverse chopmark in that vicinity. Nice pick, TDN! >>
KAZ is right, if you notice it is in the vicinity of the Obv chop but on the opposite side. Those spots just got reciprocal damage when the coin got hit, very common and allowed with grading.
<< <i>I think that's just damage from where the coin was placed on a rough surface (probably stone) to receive an obverse chopmark in that vicinity. Nice pick, TDN! >>
KAZ is right, if you notice it is in the vicinity of the Obv chop but on the opposite side. Those spots just got reciprocal damage when the coin got hit, very common and allowed with grading. >>
If that's true then, technically, its damaged right?
Not by the chopmark, but by the damage on the reverse.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
A great pick up at a surprisingly low Buy it Now price. I find it irrelevant if some on this forum seem to think that you a fiduciary responsibility to a seller on eBay. And you certainly don't owe a moral responsibility, either.
Many years ago we used to go to the bank to get rolls of coins which we would examine for keepers. If i had found a 1909-SVDB, I cannot imagine going to the banker and telling him he had a very valuable coin that was in the roll. Today, instead of going through bank rolls, we hunt down raw coins on eBay and roll the dice and hope they will straight grade. Is this not what coin collecting has been all about?
I find it refreshing that despite your great collection of Trade Dollars, you do not just acquire great coins at auction, but that you still have the same fun that you had hunting for coins for little more than face value (now melt value) many years ago. And to those socialists who castigate you for "not doing the right thing", they should spend their energy writing to Obama and praise him for not doing the right thing.
OINK >>
Good god almighty, this forum gets stupid sometimes.
The seller knows all about the coin and the thread now and is not one to cancel the order he is waiting to see if it grades because if it does not he missed out on 50 bucks big deal. Get ready as the seller is going to be listing some nice gold in PCGS slabs fresh from grading.
1. TDN still checks eBay. To me, that's cool. Too many really nice coins are owned by people who don't know squat and have no passion for collecting. 2. If I ever happen to leverage my knowledge to acquire something at less than full value, I will not post it here. 3. I can be a perfectly honest and ethical person and still incur the wrath of the two-bit popcorn gallery.
No one in numismatics wears more hats than the OP.
Very tough to please all the minions all the time or for that matter, some of the time.
A handful of members come under more scrutiny than the rest. TDN is one of those folks.
Nice score, but certainly a lightening rod issue for those that still believe in the tooth fairy.
For the few that think that TDN owes some extra money to the seller, I figure that GM owes me a rebate for the bailout, but I am not waiting by the mailbox!
<< <i>I think that's just damage from where the coin was placed on a rough surface (probably stone) to receive an obverse chopmark in that vicinity. Nice pick, TDN! >>
Thanks for the explanation, I was curious about those marks as well.
<< <i>IMHO, a chopmark represents entry to circulation then hence it can never be MS Im old school >>
I suppose if you took the word "uncirculated" literally you could believe that way but its obvious that they do not have literal meanings in todays world.
MS is a State of Preservation since "literally" EVERY coin with the exception of "Proof Set Coins" and "Uncirculated Set Coins" enters circulation in order for the collector to collect it.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>The seller knows all about the coin and the thread now and is not one to cancel the order he is waiting to see if it grades because if it does not he missed out on 50 bucks big deal. Get ready as the seller is going to be listing some nice gold in PCGS slabs fresh from grading. >>
Lostincoins you have kids, does the phrase nobody likes a tattle tale ring a bell. What does one hope to gain by A: showing the seller he left money on the table B: showing the forum you are the kind of guy to get in other people's business? I used to think you were naive but good natured & harmless. Consider this notice of reevaluation.
Bruce: Interesting education on the CM designation.
Does PCGS have a limit to how much post mintage activity both direct and indirect as evident in the denticle area, before they will switch from CM to genuine on the grade?
<< <i>Crypto79 I am not the one who told the seller about this thread. Someone who does not like TDN did because they felt that what TDN did was wrong. I have been in contact with the seller helping him determine pricing for some of his other coins and defusing the situation started by other members. Thank you for jumping to conclusions and being a jerk on the board instead of asking me about this in a PM. I would have gladly explained it all and how I have been encouraging this seller to get into collecting coins not just selling them for his old aunt whose husband died. Bringing my kids into your post is unacceptable, you are not their parent and have no right to say anything about them especially when you are talking out your A** because you do not have any information before you opened your mouth and made a completely inappropriate comment. Do not mention my kids in a thread again without first asking me before doing so. Before defaming my character in the manner you did contact me by PM first as you just make yourself look like an uninformed idiot posting as you did. I may have disagreed with you on occasion but I have never brought your family into any disparaging remarks as you have. How would you like it if I said " Your parents must be so glad to have a child like you who can not even find out what an answer is to a simple question before spouting the wrong answer and embarrassing the whole family"? Crypto never question my parenting skills when you have no idea what my parenting skills are, I am a fantastic father who cares for my children greatly, I go out of my way every day for them no matter how much pain I am in or how bad I feel I am their for them. My oldest son is 16yo and is autistic when you have daily experiance raising a son such as mine then you can comment other wise keep your mouth shut about my family. I do not care if this gets me banned as disparaging me or my family has no place on this board. >>
Holy over emotional, off topic & run-on thought projection Batman. Thanks for the life story, it has been at least a few days since you posted it.
We are going to have to agree disagree to disagree on our individual interpretation of your actions. I for one see no reason for you to reach out to the seller that you would have never known about had it not been for TDN's thread and to act like you didn't discuss the OPs auction is a farce. That is not even mentioning the facts that can be inferred by your statements
<< <i> I am not the one who told the seller about this thread. Someone who does not like TDN did because they felt that what TDN did was wrong >>
that you are snidely running around with your PM buddies either clouding or at the very least not dissuading them from being rats. All of that not even touching the statement
<< <i> I have been in contact with the seller helping him determine pricing for some of his other coins >>
Talk about the blind leading the blind, color me unimpressed with your philanthropy. I repeat my core point "Consider this notice of reevaluation"
As to your diatribe about the sanctity of kids; I would like to expose you to a new word [CONTEXT]. If you go back and read..... you will see that there was no tie in to the word (kids) other than that you have them, a fact you remind the board of ever other post it seems. I was simply using the set up as a justification to water down my original phrase to "tattle tale", the original I assure you was more to the point. Seeing that comprehension is in doubt, I would like to point out the phrase "naive but good natured & harmless" was watered down too. I simply point this out in the hopes you can take something form this for your future interactions with adults. As to how your thoughts and actions of any sort relate or effect me, they really have no impact or baring of any kind.
Congrats TDN on the Cherrypick, Its really sad to me that in the old days folks always loved a cherrypick. I will no Longer Post Any purchases from Ebay or Elsewhere as there are some on these boards who FEEL the need to contact sellers.
Any one that Starts a Thread about a Cherrypick on Ebay now has to worry that certain members think its okay to contact the sellers because they read the thread. Sorry to say I do not think thats right and it has taken the fun out of collecting and sharing info on these boards. Enjoy
Comments
<< <i>This situation for the seller is a good way for him to learn about coins >>
Nice spin, John!
It is only a lesson to him if someone reading the thread notifies him. In that case he will be barfing his baked beans.
It is fun to post our Ebay rips here (I have before), the other side is, an unknowing seller may find out that he lost a potential few hundred or in a couple of cases several thousand dollars on a listing.
An unfortunate (but fair I suppose), consequence of the internet era.
<< <i>what are the marks on the reverse .. looks like some id markings stamped onto reverse >>
Asian Merchants would stamp their mark to authenticate the American Trade Dollars.
Sort of like an early (and non removable) CAC sticker.
<< <i>
<< <i>So if TDN financially backs a Bakery would it automatically make him a Baker
I'm sure this was bought with his collector hat on as I doubt this will be resold. >>
Exactly. Right into my chopmark collection. And you are spot on about the baker part. That would make anyone who owns CLCT stock a coin dealer. >>
Sweet! I'm a coin dealer without having to do the hard work! Love it!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Fyi - raw, without professional pictures and grading, he really only left a few hundred on the table. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Did it show up yet? >>
Yes. It's as nice as the picture. Reverse on its own is MS64 CM. Obverse 63CM, shot 64.
Estimated value: $2,000 >>
Doesn't the problem with the reverse denticles around 4 o'clock cause an issue?
To me this situation is exactly the same, and I don't see the ethical problem here. The seller listed the coin for a price. They clicked 'OK' on the prompt telling telling to make sure the coin is genuine. It was purchased for the price the seller asked. They didn't ask TDN what it was worth because they didn't know, and he didn't lowball them. This is an eBay cherrypick, and an awesome one. YOU SUCK, TDN.
What if you offer to sell you PQ coin to a dealer at a show, and even though you paid a premium for it the dealer whips out the gray sheet and offers a price back of bid fully intending to resell it at a big premium? Is he unethical? What if he buys the coin at gray sheet bid and then upgrades it? Is he unethical?
It’s the coin game.
CG
<< <i>
<< <i>Fyi - raw, without professional pictures and grading, he really only left a few hundred on the table. >>
By the hundredth post, TDN will be losing money on this coin!
I find it cool that the dude who has spent millions on a coin is still buying them for 50 bucks on eBay! Finding a deal never gets old.
<< <i>
By the hundredth post, TDN will be losing money on this coin!
A great pick up at a surprisingly low Buy it Now price. I find it irrelevant if some on this forum seem to think that you a fiduciary responsibility to a seller on eBay. And you certainly don't owe a moral responsibility, either.
Many years ago we used to go to the bank to get rolls of coins which we would examine for keepers. If i had found a 1909-SVDB, I cannot imagine going to the banker and telling him he had a very valuable coin that was in the roll. Today, instead of going through bank rolls, we hunt down raw coins on eBay and roll the dice and hope they will straight grade. Is this not what coin collecting has been all about?
I find it refreshing that despite your great collection of Trade Dollars, you do not just acquire great coins at auction, but that you still have the same fun that you had hunting for coins for little more than face value (now melt value) many years ago. And to those socialists who castigate you for "not doing the right thing", they should spend their energy writing to Obama and praise him for not doing the right thing.
OINK
Sorry, it's just everytime I see the OINK sig...
AB
Congrats on the nice score!
I remember TDN said during the Missouri Cabinet collection sale that he was able to buy a coin he wanted for something like half his max bid. Since he obviously ripped it from the Goldberg sale, its probably only fair for him to pay double his bid so that the goldbergs don't lose out on it. (gee whiz).
<< <i>If Im looking at this correct, There was only one bid (TDN's) and anyone else could have bid as well. >>
It wasn't a bid, it was a Buy-it-Now. In theory, someone else could've snagged it, but it hadn't been up very long.
What's that on the Reverse? Missing Dentils??
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I think that's just damage from where the coin was placed on a rough surface (probably stone) to receive an obverse chopmark in that vicinity. Nice pick, TDN! >>
KAZ is right, if you notice it is in the vicinity of the Obv chop but on the opposite side. Those spots just got reciprocal damage when the coin got hit, very common and allowed with grading.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think that's just damage from where the coin was placed on a rough surface (probably stone) to receive an obverse chopmark in that vicinity. Nice pick, TDN! >>
KAZ is right, if you notice it is in the vicinity of the Obv chop but on the opposite side. Those spots just got reciprocal damage when the coin got hit, very common and allowed with grading. >>
If that's true then, technically, its damaged right?
Not by the chopmark, but by the damage on the reverse.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>TDN,
A great pick up at a surprisingly low Buy it Now price. I find it irrelevant if some on this forum seem to think that you a fiduciary responsibility to a seller on eBay. And you certainly don't owe a moral responsibility, either.
Many years ago we used to go to the bank to get rolls of coins which we would examine for keepers. If i had found a 1909-SVDB, I cannot imagine going to the banker and telling him he had a very valuable coin that was in the roll. Today, instead of going through bank rolls, we hunt down raw coins on eBay and roll the dice and hope they will straight grade. Is this not what coin collecting has been all about?
I find it refreshing that despite your great collection of Trade Dollars, you do not just acquire great coins at auction, but that you still have the same fun that you had hunting for coins for little more than face value (now melt value) many years ago. And to those socialists who castigate you for "not doing the right thing", they should spend their energy writing to Obama and praise him for not doing the right thing.
OINK >>
Good god almighty, this forum gets stupid sometimes.
<< <i>So I hope you are going to do the right thing and send a extra check back to this fellow.... he didnt know what he had and thats a rip >>
Really? If this was anyone other than TDN the thread wouldn't have gotten past post 6. Give me a break.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>So I hope you are going to do the right thing and send a extra check back to this fellow.... he didnt know what he had and thats a rip >>
when dealers can sometimes do the same ...
has any received a check from a dealer because the coin the dealer bought was worth much more than paid ?
But they didn't and lost a few bucks.
<< <i>has any received a check from a dealer because the coin the dealer bought was worth much more than paid >>
Actually, I have. Sold a small part of my collection to a B&M, went back a week later and he said he made a math error, handed me more cash.
1. TDN still checks eBay. To me, that's cool. Too many really nice coins are owned by people who don't know squat and have no passion for collecting.
2. If I ever happen to leverage my knowledge to acquire something at less than full value, I will not post it here.
3. I can be a perfectly honest and ethical person and still incur the wrath of the two-bit popcorn gallery.
Very tough to please all the minions all the time or for that matter, some of the time.
A handful of members come under more scrutiny than the rest. TDN is one of those folks.
Nice score, but certainly a lightening rod issue for those that still believe in the tooth fairy.
For the few that think that TDN owes some extra money to the seller, I figure that GM owes me a rebate for the bailout, but I am not waiting by the mailbox!
<< <i>I think that's just damage from where the coin was placed on a rough surface (probably stone) to receive an obverse chopmark in that vicinity. Nice pick, TDN! >>
Thanks for the explanation, I was curious about those marks as well.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Again.................if its damaged from the ChopMark should it grade?? >>
Yes. It doesn't receive a regular grade, it receives a chop marked grade. For instance, MS63CM
<< <i>Again.................if its damaged from the ChopMark should it grade?? >>
Absolutely.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>IMHO, a chopmark represents entry to circulation then hence it can never be MS Im old school >>
I agree with you on the MS designation.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>IMHO, a chopmark represents entry to circulation then hence it can never be MS Im old school >>
Pull a shiny quarter out of your pocket, send it in and see what grade it receives.
Again, a chop marked trade dollar does not receive an MS grade...it receives an MS CM grade. There's a difference
<< <i>IMHO, a chopmark represents entry to circulation then hence it can never be MS Im old school >>
I suppose if you took the word "uncirculated" literally you could believe that way but its obvious that they do not have literal meanings in todays world.
MS is a State of Preservation since "literally" EVERY coin with the exception of "Proof Set Coins" and "Uncirculated Set Coins" enters circulation in order for the collector to collect it.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Again.................if its damaged from the ChopMark should it grade?? >>
Yes. It doesn't receive a regular grade, it receives a chop marked grade. For instance, MS63CM >>
Thank You Bruce.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The seller knows all about the coin and the thread now and is not one to cancel the order he is waiting to see if it grades because if it does not he missed out on 50 bucks big deal. Get ready as the seller is going to be listing some nice gold in PCGS slabs fresh from grading. >>
Lostincoins
Does PCGS have a limit to how much post mintage activity both direct and indirect as evident in the denticle area, before they will switch from CM to genuine on the grade?
<< <i>Crypto79 I am not the one who told the seller about this thread. Someone who does not like TDN did because they felt that what TDN did was wrong. I have been in contact with the seller helping him determine pricing for some of his other coins and defusing the situation started by other members. Thank you for jumping to conclusions and being a jerk on the board instead of asking me about this in a PM. I would have gladly explained it all and how I have been encouraging this seller to get into collecting coins not just selling them for his old aunt whose husband died. Bringing my kids into your post is unacceptable, you are not their parent and have no right to say anything about them especially when you are talking out your A** because you do not have any information before you opened your mouth and made a completely inappropriate comment. Do not mention my kids in a thread again without first asking me before doing so. Before defaming my character in the manner you did contact me by PM first as you just make yourself look like an uninformed idiot posting as you did. I may have disagreed with you on occasion but I have never brought your family into any disparaging remarks as you have. How would you like it if I said " Your parents must be so glad to have a child like you who can not even find out what an answer is to a simple question before spouting the wrong answer and embarrassing the whole family"? Crypto never question my parenting skills when you have no idea what my parenting skills are, I am a fantastic father who cares for my children greatly, I go out of my way every day for them no matter how much pain I am in or how bad I feel I am their for them. My oldest son is 16yo and is autistic when you have daily experiance raising a son such as mine then you can comment other wise keep your mouth shut about my family. I do not care if this gets me banned as disparaging me or my family has no place on this board. >>
We are going to have to agree disagree to disagree on our individual interpretation of your actions. I for one see no reason for you to reach out to the seller that you would have never known about had it not been for TDN's thread and to act like you didn't discuss the OPs auction is a farce. That is not even mentioning the facts that can be inferred by your statements
<< <i> I am not the one who told the seller about this thread. Someone who does not like TDN did because they felt that what TDN did was wrong >>
that you are snidely running around with your PM buddies either clouding or at the very least not dissuading them from being rats. All of that not even touching the statement
<< <i> I have been in contact with the seller helping him determine pricing for some of his other coins >>
Talk about the blind leading the blind, color me unimpressed with your philanthropy. I repeat my core point "Consider this notice of reevaluation"
As to your diatribe about the sanctity of kids; I would like to expose you to a new word [CONTEXT].
If you go back and read..... you will see that there was no tie in to the word (kids) other than that you have them, a fact you remind the board of ever other post it seems. I was simply using the set up as a justification to water down my original phrase to "tattle tale", the original I assure you was more to the point. Seeing that comprehension is in doubt, I would like to point out the phrase "naive but good natured & harmless" was watered down too. I simply point this out in the hopes you can take something form this for your future interactions with adults. As to how your thoughts and actions of any sort relate or effect me, they really have no impact or baring of any kind.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>So cherrypicking is now wrong?
Congrats TDN on the Cherrypick, Its really sad to me that in the old days folks always loved a cherrypick. I will no Longer Post Any purchases from Ebay or Elsewhere as there are some on these boards who FEEL the need to contact sellers.
Any one that Starts a Thread about a Cherrypick on Ebay now has to worry that certain members think its okay to contact the sellers because they read the thread. Sorry to say I do not think thats right and it has taken the fun out of collecting and sharing info on these boards. Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.