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New PCGS holograms peeling off

nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭✭
The new holograms have some sort of slit in them in the corners and along the sides. When peeling price stickers off the back of the holders, I'm finding it's very easy to catch a nail in one of those slits and then partially tearing the hologram off. Is anyone else having this issue, or am I just being too clumsy?

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Comments

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The new holograms have some sort of slit in them in the corners and along the sides. When peeling price stickers off the back of the holders, I'm finding it's very easy to catch a nail in one of those slits and then partially tearing the hologram off. Is anyone else having this issue, or am I just being too clumsy? >>


    The hologram is on the out side?
    Your buying from some place where they put a price sticker right over the hologram? Sheesh! How sloppy is that.

  • nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The hologram is on the out side?
    Your buying from some place where they put a price sticker right over the hologram? Sheesh! How sloppy is that. >>



    Yes, the hologram is on the outside. There's no place for us or other dealers to put our price stickers except over the hologram.
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I had one pull off with the sticker. I don't think I caught a nail, I think it just stuck to the label.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems like it should be easily fixable.

    "There are no called strikes in coin collecting."--Henry David Thoreau RYK
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Never understood the logic behind putting them on the outside of the slab. >>



    would there be any concerns about long-term internal contamination since the top/bottom inside are possible open-connected or are they actually fully separated on the inside?
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • They had just figured it out before this generation of holograms when they started putting them inside the holder. These new DuPont labels peel easier than ever, and even scratch off from my experiences. I'm not sure what inclined them to put them on the outside of the holder again.
    Specialist in Lincoln Cents, Toned Type, and Slab enthusiast.
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭
    I noticed the same problem!! I've bought 2 newly graded coins in the past two weeks that had corners torn off the new hologram. The slits are easily caught on things!
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This sounds like a problem.... Cheers, RickO
  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cranium rectum inversion mode?

  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭
    Have you notified PCGS yet?
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well that sucks. Shops like Heritage always cover the hologram with a sticky label. Many others too.
    Lance.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    for those that are coming completely off ..... are any coming off whole and otherwise unscathed ??

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • JaLPJaLP Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    MsMorrisine,
    I think you are implying that the stickers might be removed from a real slab and placed on a counterfeit slap if they can be removed intact.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    JaLP
    While each has its own serial number, I am indeed wondering how easy it is to reuse holos from cracked slabs.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    I find it hard to believe that PCGS overlooked this peeling off problem. They are well aware Heritage always places a large lot sticker over the hologram area. Hope we are not going back to the problems we had with the early fat NGC holograms peeling off.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭
    Here's one I recently rec'd with label issues:

    image
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,868 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Here's one I recently rec'd with label issues:

    image >>



    image
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Heritage Labels are so sticky, they are probably stronger than the highly touted and heavily advertised Flex Seal spray stuff!!

    This is scary stuff. If those Heritage labels hit the new PCGS holograms we could see a massive peel off problem!
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't get panicked just yet.


    Wait for more field reports.


    If they are only peeling apart as designed, then it is just an education issue with sellers and auction houses.


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • USMoneyloverUSMoneylover Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    I've had 20 or 30 of the new slabs in my hands since Jan. and noticed 4 or 5 had a peeling problem...I had one on a freshly graded coin straight from the PCGS box that had a small tear and was pushed back down. This will be changed in the near future I bet.
    Finest Coins and Relics
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I presume (sibling of assume) the slabs are stored as inventory in blue boxes?

    Put the inventory labels wrapped over the top of the slab.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Seems like it should go under the plastic if our hosts don't want it to peel off, yes? I don't get why it's on top.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭


    << <i>I presume (sibling of assume) the slabs are stored as inventory in blue boxes?

    Put the inventory labels wrapped over the top of the slab. >>

    I would think it's quite likely that inventory is stored in cardboard slab boxes. If so, the slabs would be in contact with each other and the labels would get scuffed up and start to peel and stick to each other pretty quickly if the labels were wrapped over the top of the slabs.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I presume (sibling of assume) the slabs are stored as inventory in blue boxes?

    Put the inventory labels wrapped over the top of the slab. >>

    I would think it's quite likely that inventory is stored in cardboard slab boxes. If so, the slabs would be in contact with each other and the labels would get scuffed up and start to peel and stick to each other pretty quickly if the labels were wrapped over the top of the slabs. >>




    yeah and presume makes a pres out of u and me!


    mash em down tight? points for trying?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭


    << <i>mash em down tight? points for trying? >>

    I think even so, the labels would get ratty and torn rather quickly. Packing to fly to shows and such, space is at a premium and I don't suppose most dealers have the luxury of using boxes with dividers between the slabs like the blue plastic PCGS boxes have.

    edited to add... some people complain when stickers are too hard to remove.
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Just got to thinking. Maybe this thread is an early April Fools thread. Sure hope so.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • I received a group of coins from PCGS, sent them off to CAC same day. Two had folded edges on Hologram already when I finally looked at them after return from CAC.

    Conclusion - Even in normal handling by numismatic experts, these holograms are doomed. I wonder what they will be like in a year, 5 years.

    These outside holograms are a fail.
  • BanemorthBanemorth Posts: 986 ✭✭✭
    I just don't get why you'd do something you know doesn't work.

    image
    Justin From Jersey

    Successful Transactions With: JoeLewis, Mkman123, Harry779, Grote15, gdavis70, Kryptonitecomics
  • georgiacop50georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭
    Even more mysterious is why none of PCGS's principals have chimed in...
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    At this years' FUN luncheon, where DW introduced the new hologram, we were told they include both overt and covert anti-counterfeiting measures. Don spoke of some of the overt ones as attendees watched a slide show presentation. He would not go into the covert aspects (for good reasons, we assumed).

    I wonder if some of the covert anti-counterfeiting measures require the sticker on the outside of the slab, in order for them to work. I cannot imagine PCGS overlooked the obvious advantages of holograms within the holder. There must be valid reasons beyond "it's just easier this way". A lot of time and money were spent on these.
    Lance.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hopefully the PCGS leadership will see this thread and address this issue.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i would imagine they are working as designed - tamper proof. Prevents removal from a genuine slab and reapplying to a counterfeit slab. Hologram feature is probably not viewable when inside the slab. Dealers need to be educated not to apply a sticker over them.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Slab collectors better acquire an example before the fix is in.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,617 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I wonder if some of the covert anti-counterfeiting measures require the sticker on the outside of the slab, in order for them to work. I cannot imagine PCGS overlooked the obvious advantages of holograms within the holder. There must be valid reasons beyond "it's just easier this way". A lot of time and money were spent on these.
    Lance. >>


    Having it on the inside, stuck to the tag, would make it easy to extract both a usable tag and usable hologram label from a single slab, reusing them together on a fake.
  • It might work if label is attach inside the plastic, however label has to be modified with sticky side being in the hologram side.
    jetblack740il

    ==================================

    Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure the slab manufacturer already received a phone call about faulty adhesion before this thread aired. Placing the hologram inside might lead to chemical reaction if adhesive is used, unless they could redesign the slab with a interior pocket to freely hold the hologram?
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,071 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm sure the slab manufacturer already received a phone call about faulty adhesion before this thread aired. Placing the hologram inside might lead to chemical reaction if adhesive is used, unless they could redesign the slab with a interior pocket to freely hold the hologram? >>


    Would not PCGS want the hologram to self destruct in any attempt to remove it? Otherwise it could be peeled and placed on a counterfeit slab. I believe it is working as designed.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Would not PCGS want the hologram to self destruct in any attempt to remove it? Otherwise it could be peeled and placed on a counterfeit slab. I believe it is working as designed. >>



    I haven't read the announcement but are you saying the collaboration with DuPont was to deliberately design a hologram quite like peanut brittle?
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • UncleJoeUncleJoe Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Would not PCGS want the hologram to self destruct in any attempt to remove it? Otherwise it could be peeled and placed on a counterfeit slab. I believe it is working as designed. >>



    I haven't read the announcement but are you saying the collaboration with DuPont was to deliberately design a hologram quite like peanut brittle? >>




    This is not unusual. There are many decals produced this way. One example are parking labels. They are designed to be stuck on the outside of a car window and will break apart if you try to remove it to prevent it from being stolen and used on another vehicle.

    Joe.
  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, if we assume that the holo stickers were designed to break apart if tampered with, what then? Will there be a new "re-hologram" service? I mean, the whole security "improvement" of the new holo sticker is lost if the sticker is just a remnant or completely gone - you're basically left with a slab that is probably less secure (or more easily counterfeited) than an old slab with the old holo embedded within. Something ain't right, or we aren't getting the whole story on the stickers...
  • dbcoindbcoin Posts: 2,200 ✭✭
    yet another "we are smart and PCGS is dumb" thread. You guys need to find a better, more fun, less stressful hobby.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,971 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So, if we assume that the holo stickers were designed to break apart if tampered with, what then? Will there be a new "re-hologram" service? I mean, the whole security "improvement" of the new holo sticker is lost if the sticker is just a remnant or completely gone - you're basically left with a slab that is probably less secure (or more easily counterfeited) than an old slab with the old holo embedded within. Something ain't right, or we aren't getting the whole story on the stickers... >>



    Yep, pretty much defeats the purpose of the special hologram if it can be so easily compromised. Unless there are some unknown issues, it needs to be inside the slab.
  • BarberFanaticBarberFanatic Posts: 671 ✭✭✭✭
    Don't worry everyone. I'm sure you'll be able to pay even more money for a "fixed" version of the new slab at some point in the near future! LOL!
    My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
  • nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭✭
    I do think the hologram should become destroyed if anyone tries to peel it off. The issue is with how easily they are peeling off. Perhaps if they just got rid of those slits in the hologram.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dealers need to be educated not to apply a sticker over them. >>



    The upcoming "sticker resistant" slab technology will remedy this! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does a hologram have to be extremely fragile to be tamper proof? Are the tamper proof holograms on NGC slabs fragile?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dealers need to be educated not to apply a sticker over them. >>



    The problem is there's nowhere else to put the stickers. Either they go on the top of the slab on the back (over any holograms), or they go over the coin. Obviously, the latter is not an option. And price stickers are necessary, so the only solution is to improve the hologram.

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