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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2018 9:07AM

    Why the crypto crash is temporary

    "The total cryptocurrency market sits at around $500 billion. But the institutional funds need the market to hit $1 trillion before they can start investing heavily. And when that happens… most likely sometime this year… the crypto market will really take off. And the institutional money will first put their dollars to work in the cryptocurrencies that have the largest market capitalizations. That means investors should be looking closely at bitcoin, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, and Bitcoin Cash, to start."

    Disclaimer: I'm not a bitcoin fan but I am a fan of opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

    Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar

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    guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2018 9:13AM

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    How easy [or difficult] is it for a private person to accept bitcoin as payment? Is it possible to stop a payment at all?

    You have to have a Bitcoin wallet that you hold the private keys to (much like your bank account that you have the PIN to). You give that wallet address (which is public but doesn't identify you as the owner) to the party you want to send or receive payment from. The transaction is not reversible once it is written on the blockchain. There is something called "smart contracts" that you can deploy with certain coins that can be written into the transaction whereby certain criteria has to be met by both parties to complete the transaction.

    Edited to add: There are QRS codes associated with your different wallet addresses also. If paying in person, you can scan the code on someone's phone and type in the amount you want to send/receive and then do the transaction.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @guitarwes said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    How easy [or difficult] is it for a private person to accept bitcoin as payment? Is it possible to stop a payment at all?

    You have to have a Bitcoin wallet that you hold the private keys to (much like your bank account that you have the PIN to). You give that wallet address (which is public but doesn't identify you as the owner) to the party you want to send or receive payment from. The transaction is not reversible once it is written on the blockchain. There is something called "smart contracts" that you can deploy with certain coins that can be written into the transaction whereby certain criteria has to be met by both parties to complete the transaction.

    Edited to add: There are QRS codes associated with your different wallet addresses also. If paying in person, you can scan the code on someone's phone and type in the amount you want to send/receive and then do the transaction.

    How is the payment received converted into cash?

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    bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @guitarwes said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    There is something called "smart contracts" that you can deploy with certain coins that can be written into the transaction whereby certain criteria has to be met by both parties to complete the transaction.

    Edited to add: There are QRS codes associated with your different wallet addresses also. If paying in person, you can scan the code on someone's phone and type in the amount you want to send/receive and then do the transaction.

    If you were clueless about stuff like that could someone take bitcoin back from you after you delivered on your end?

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    guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭

    How is the payment received converted into cash?

    The only way you can convert it to fiat dollars right now is to 1) transfer it to your Coinbase or Gemini exchange account and sell for fiat or 2) find someone locally to pay you cash for your cryptocurrency.
    You could use the crypto to purchase on online platforms such as Overstock.com, Provident metals, APMEX, and many other that take crytpo payments.

    If you were clueless about stuff like that could someone take bitcoin back from you after you delivered on your end?

    No, if it's not a smart contract where both parties had a input on how the transaction and conditions should occur, transactions are irreversible. A direct transaction (not a smart contract) from me to you is irreversible.

    .

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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    ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @guitarwes said:
    How is the payment received converted into cash?

    The only way you can convert it to fiat dollars right now is to 1) transfer it to your Coinbase or Gemini exchange account and sell for fiat or 2) find someone locally to pay you cash for your cryptocurrency.
    You could use the crypto to purchase on online platforms such as Overstock.com, Provident metals, APMEX, and many other that take crytpo payments.

    If you were clueless about stuff like that could someone take bitcoin back from you after you delivered on your end?

    No, if it's not a smart contract where both parties had a input on how the transaction and conditions should occur, transactions are irreversible. A direct transaction (not a smart contract) from me to you is irreversible.

    .

    I can definitely see the benefits of crypto, however, I have been saying for years that government regulation will render much of the crypto market obsolete. The whole point of crypto was to be free of the current monetary system and governments and regulators won't allow that to happen...they want their piece of the pie too. China and South Korea have recently pumped the brakes on exchanges....the online way of converting crypto to $$$$. I bet you that a lot of the 2016/2017 run up was by: Russians, Venezuelans, North Koreans and others who are sanctioned by OFAC.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/criminal-activity-will-spur-government-intervention-and-kill-bitcoin.html

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    66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭

    @66Tbird said:
    I'm up and running a tiny 22MH/s@175watts mining Ethereum. It's $2.50 a day on spare parts. I should be able to use up to 450 watts/hour and not flip the meter back to paying for power. (I've got a big solar array). If I can underclock the miner, find more and mod the video cards bios's to dual mine for two different cyptos I should be able to pull $7.50/day for basically the effort in the learning curve. If I lived in cold weather I'd have a nice room heater too. But I'm in AZ (82° yesterday) so the miner will be in the shop till it's to hot to run.

    I finally got a used rx580 video card for cheap. Did the new thermal paste and Frankin-fan install. Fired up the bios editor and safely tweaked that puppy to 30Mhs. Added that to the de-tuned rx570 running at 19Mhs and it's an easy cheap $400 mining rig at 49Mhs using 200 watts. I've got another 200 watts to spare before I'd be paying all the fees the power company hits you with when you use more than you give.

    Here the profitability calcumalater :)
    https://cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/eth?HashingPower=49&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=270&CostPerkWh=0&MiningPoolFee=1

    I may make it sound easy but it's a learning curve of research. Then when it works it's a real rush that makes me want more. Been running 19Mhs for a while now and have 30 some bucks in ETH but that's going to change quickly at this new rate. I'll ROI in 10 weeks and it's gravy from there. Plus I still have nice gaming video cards that always have good resale. Back to ebay, and craigslist for another cheap card. I'll like to do 80Mhs. Got a feeling it's not going to end.

    Need something designed and 3D printed?
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    hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I may make it sound easy but it's a learning curve of research.

    For those of us who don't have a clue what you are saying, it doesn't sound very easy :)

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    guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018 7:22AM

    @66Tbird said:

    Got a feeling it's not going to end.

    It's like an addiction, but at least this one pays you. :#:#:#
    My buddy can't get away from buying one ASIC miner after another.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Has anyone's house evet burned down from doing this?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good question, I would assume yes :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    Has anyone's house evet burned down from doing this?

    The miner itself bursting into flames probably not because modern components have thermal cutoffs or throttling built in. But the plug to the wall is problematic and we've all seen that one plug with the burned connector thingy in our lifetimes. The rig pictured above draws the limit of a standard breaker circuit and there are a few outlets on one circuit, so you watch for that. Good power cords (heavy duty 12ga) are preferred because they do get warm.

    Need something designed and 3D printed?
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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's why every circuit is protected by an overcurrent breaker with properly sized wiring. The danger lies in the size of the wire between the wall outlet and the mining rig. Too much current through too small a wire and poof.

    Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar

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    guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭

    Looks to be an interesting weekend into monday for BTC and other cryptos. Futures expired without much chaos. Charts are flagging out and prices are pressure squeezing in a steady range. Blow off or take off? You all probably know by now where my $$$ is.
    I predict a big 3rd wave up here shortly to upper $20K/lower $30K. Hold on.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @guitarwes said:
    Looks to be an interesting weekend into monday for BTC and other cryptos. Futures expired without much chaos. Charts are flagging out and prices are pressure squeezing in a steady range. Blow off or take off? You all probably know by now where my $$$ is.
    I predict a big 3rd wave up here shortly to upper $20K/lower $30K. Hold on.

    This is what gives technical analysis a bad rap.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018 9:28PM

    QE gave TA a bad rap. It sent it to the stone age.

    Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar

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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2018 7:42AM

    @derryb said:
    QE gave TA a bad rap. It sent it to the stone age.

    QE has nothing to do with TA. QE did however give the gold bugs a bad rap.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What did you buy with your bitcoin ?

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    8998.00 right now, dropping fast lately.

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    ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭

    @asheland said:
    8998.00 right now, dropping fast lately.

    OH DON'T WORRY IT'S GOING TO 100K BY THE END OF THE YEAR.

    :D

    image
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    66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    What did you buy with your bitcoin ?

    Who were you asking?

    Need something designed and 3D printed?
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018 12:20PM

    @asheland said:
    8998.00 right now, dropping fast lately.

    But I thought the charts said it was waving a flag or something. Maybe it was surrendrring?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭

    A million comedians out of work and you're trying to be funny.
    The price did go up >$1500 when it broke the upper line. Check for yourself big guy.

    I added to my stack today on the dip. When you're looking down hunting Easter eggs I'll be looking up at the candles on the charts going up. Gimme a few weeks and get back with me.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where are those silver threads from late 2011?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm.

    image
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @66Tbird said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    What did you buy with your bitcoin ?

    Who were you asking?

    Anyone who has used the digital currency to purchase goods / or services ?

  • Options
    66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @66Tbird said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    What did you buy with your bitcoin ?

    Who were you asking?

    Anyone who has used the digital currency to purchase goods / or services ?

    For me it was a stack of silver 10 ozer's

    Need something designed and 3D printed?
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My $500 in bitcoin ( an experiment with real money ) is currently valued at $236.

    I would not recommend experimenting with real money.

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    66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    My $500 in bitcoin ( an experiment with real money ) is currently valued at $236.

    I would not recommend experimenting with real money.

    That is why I mined them. The hardware has the value too which would easy the pain of a loss. My little $400 Ethereum rig is quietly chugging along at $5/day for a few weeks now. At least I think it's going.... yep it is.

    Need something designed and 3D printed?
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My son has 10 million coins on his Madden NFL 2017.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I keep telling myself , “ it’s all in the mined “.

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2018 10:50PM

    Major Banks Ban Buying Bitcoin With Your Credit Card

    Not that I condone borrowing money to invest, but I find it ironic that the banks issuing credit cards can gamble with my money, but I can't gamble with theirs?

    Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .
    SPLUNGE!!!!!!!
    .

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For the price of bitcoin to be going down, does someone have to be taking the money out? Who’s taking money out, and where is that money going? It’s not going into stocks.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    For the price of bitcoin to be going down, does someone have to be taking the money out? Who’s taking money out, and where is that money going? It’s not going into stocks.

    Shaking out emotional weak hands that are cutting their losses with the recent drop. With what they've cashed out, they're probably just holding USD now until they see some stabilization somewhere.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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    66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    For the price of bitcoin to be going down, does someone have to be taking the money out? Who’s taking money out, and where is that money going? It’s not going into stocks.

    I'd imagine the big miners are cashing out of BTC. There are huge mining farms churning profit into equipment and the moment crypto starts to fall they re-evaluate and move from one coin into another. All the while keep a keen eye on the re-sale value of the miners (high-end video gaming cards).

    Even the Ethereum I mine has fallen 30% in three days. But, its algorithm has a correcting factor built in that deals with the ''difficulty factor'' somehow so it has shown to be less susceptible to major swings profitability wise.

    Need something designed and 3D printed?
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2018 12:04PM

    @jmski52 said:
    For the price of bitcoin to be going down, does someone have to be taking the money out?

    No

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No

    Then how is the price being driven down? I don't understand that one!

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    No

    Then how is the price being driven down? I don't understand that one!

    Suppose you have 9 people bidding for something between a price of 95 and 100, and one person bidding 50. The first 9 folks decide they dont want to bid anymore and leave the table. The next bid is therefore 50. The price just fell 50% and not a single trade was made.

    Folks think there must always be heaving selling to drive prices lower, when usually it is a dearth of buyers that cause lower prices. Think silver in 2011.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,862 ✭✭✭✭✭

    CNN Money: "Bitcoin briefly falls below $6,000 ahead of Senate hearing"

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/06/investing/bitcoin-price-drop-february/index.html

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What that tells me is that there was a dearth of buyers at an artificially high price. Surely there are millions of participants in the bitcoin market now, and that being the case, the price ought to be fairly liquid, but you're saying it is not. (Unless of course, everyone already knows that it's a Ponzi, which they do.) One big game of "chicken".

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    What that tells me is that there was a dearth of buyers at an artificially high price. Surely there are millions of participants in the bitcoin market now, and that being the case, the price ought to be fairly liquid, but you're saying it is not. (Unless of course, everyone already knows that it's a Ponzi, which they do.) One big game of "chicken".

    First you have to rid yourself of this notion of "artificial". There is nothing artificial about the price that was paid. That price is true. You may not agree with the reasons that led to that price, but it is not an artificial price.

    Of course there are millions of participants, I tried to keep it simple. Everyone has a price at which they are willing to pay and that price changes continuously. Eventually there becomes an inequilibrium. Markets are dynamic. Just because I am willing pay 10,000 today doesn't mean I'll pay that tomorrow. I haven't left the market, but I'm adusting my willingness to participate.

    The price of bitcoin is liquid, just at a lower level.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2018 2:48PM

    Bitcoin's $20,000 bubble mania peak of Mid December that valued the crypto currency at $320 billion has long since been left in the dust as Bitcoin has crashed well below $10,000, wiping out $170 billion of the value of participants holdings. All whilst the crypto coin gamblers obsessed by all things block chain have largely remained in a state of denial, focused on bitcoin soaring to over $50,000 despite its real inverse trend trajectory as tends to happen at the end of market manias.Yikes is the mania over

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

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    renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Huh, back over 10,000. ;-)

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    dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The cryptos do seem to have calmed down and stabilized a good deal, at least as compared with last fall.

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    guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭

    It's crickets in here when BTC is rising......(chirp chirp). BTC almost up 100% since the bottom less than 2 weeks ago.

    LTC has been on a pretty good tear also. <---- This is gonna be a huge winner this year. Thinking 5:1 parity with BTC.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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    66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭

    I'm still keeping the house warm on with my 400W/hr frankenminer making Ethereum. Not hard here west of Phx,AZ. Check my stats twice a day to make sure its all up to speed. Can't get the hashing power (computations per second) that I should with the video cards I have so I've been pharting around with that overclocking thing. Starting to think it maybe my usb 1.0 bus used on two of the three cards. I'll swap a strong card into the pci-e vid slot and test. It's crap like that you either love or hate. The success is worth the challenge for me. Plus I'm a tad smarter when I'm done. I'll make it look neater when I get it setup perfect and don't need the heat.

    Now, the bitcoin wallet and the inability to move funds is/has been an on going issue/challenge for me. During this bitcoin crash I figured I'd convert my tiny .0453 btc into some other atl coin and catch a bigger bounce back up. But just transferring to the Binance exchange is not happening. Something in the blockchain that needs to be downloading on the computer is off and I'm trying my best to repair before I download that 147Gb again with my lame-ass dsl connection.

    Just thought I'd vent an update since btc has lost 60% in two months. It just doesn't seem to take much to break the system.

    Need something designed and 3D printed?
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    hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're speaking a foreign language there buddy :)

This discussion has been closed.