Walter Breen's Encyclopedia of US Coins

Author1 · January 31, 2014 7:12AM

Does any one know where some one can buy this book with out paying hundreds of dollars? I've also heard people say that Breen made up some of the info in this book. Is that true? Is it trustworthy?

silvergoldnut · January 31, 2014 7:22AM

i got mine on e-bay about 5 years ago, and yes i might of over paid but it was one i could not do without. think i paid 149.00 . also of what i have read i see nothing that looks made up to me.

Sonorandesertrat · January 31, 2014 7:26AM

It is a remarkable book. I have two copies (one still in shrink-wrap, tob e used when the first one wears out). There are some errors, but the percentage is quite small. Every serious student of U.S. coins should own a copy, especially if interested in coinage prior to the Civil War.

rays · January 31, 2014 7:26AM

<< Does any one know where some one can buy this book with out paying hundreds of dollars? I've also heard people say that Breen made up some of the info in this book. Is that true? Is it trustworthy? >>

There is nothing else like that I am aware of in all of numismatics. I have also heard people claim he "made up some of the info" but I have never seen credible evidence of such. Mr. Breen spent considerable time examining the early mint records in the National Archives in the 1950s.

crypto79 · January 31, 2014 7:35AM

<< 

<< Does any one know where some one can buy this book with out paying hundreds of dollars? I've also heard people say that Breen made up some of the info in this book. Is that true? Is it trustworthy? >>

There is nothing else like that I am aware of in all of numismatics. I have also heard people claim he "made up some of the info" but I have never seen credible evidence of such. Mr. Breen spent considerable time examining the early mint records in the National Archives in the 1950s. >>

(Made up)might be a bit strong, "borrowed" other's work, redundant entries, omissions and assumptions are all in there. But in its entirety it is an equaled accomplishment in numismatics.

Now his attribution letters later in life the term (made up) might be too nice.

BillJones · January 31, 2014 7:36AM

<< 

<< Does any one know where some one can buy this book with out paying hundreds of dollars? I've also heard people say that Breen made up some of the info in this book. Is that true? Is it trustworthy? >>

There is nothing else like that I am aware of in all of numismatics. I have also heard people claim he "made up some of the info" but I have never seen credible evidence of such. Mr. Breen spent considerable time examining the early mint records in the National Archives in the 1950s. >>

His comment about how Robert Ball Hughes re-designed the Liberty Seated figure because of 19th century prudish attitudes was kind of silly, but by in large he got a lot of the historical facts right. He made some comments about rarity, which have proven not be true, but that is often the pattern. When an authority says something is rare, large numbers of collectors start looking for it, and sometimes more of them are discovered.

Breen's personal life was a mess, and the worst aspects deserve the condemnation they receive, but he was a major force in numismatics during his life and should be remembered for that. I hope that this thread will not degenerate into another anti-Breen frenzy. We most all know the facts and don't need to rehash them again.

MGLICKER · January 31, 2014 7:39AM

<< I hope that this thread will not degenerate into another anti-Breen frenzy. >>

I agree. I have no issue with those that use the resource.

I choose to pass.

AUandAG · January 31, 2014 7:57AM

about a dozen or so on Ebay at the moment. Well worth whatever you have to pay!

bob

EBAY

KeyLargoRareCoins · January 31, 2014 8:14AM

Breen, a member of NAMBLA,[4] was initially convicted of child molestation or lewd behavior in Atlantic City in 1954, resulting in a probationary sentence.[7][11] During science fiction fandom's "Breendoggle" of 1963-1964, Breen was banned from attending Pacificon II and briefly blackballed from the subculture's main amateur press association after allegations of further pedophilic acts (including the abuse of a 10 year old boy) surfaced.[11] Nevertheless, many prominent fans of the era (including John Boardman), perhaps unaware of Breen's prior conviction, dismissed the allegations as hearsay and "character assassination," and the scandal blew over.[12] Shortly thereafter, Breen married Bradley, who was cognizant of his behavior.[11] A further molestation conviction may have occurred in 1964.[7]
Breen was again arrested on child molestation charges in 1990. He accepted a plea bargain, which resulted in three years' probation.[13]
A year later, he was charged with eight felony counts of child molestation involving a 13-year-old boy.[13] Though diagnosed with liver cancer in 1992, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He died in prison in Chino, California on April 27, 1993.[14]

Thats about all I care to know about the famous author/scumbag

coindeuce · January 31, 2014 8:21AM

I advertised one on the BST forum in December. I still have it.

ColonelJessup · January 31, 2014 8:22AM

There is a copy in the Grading Room.

Author1 · January 31, 2014 9:01AM

<< Breen, a member of NAMBLA,[4] was initially convicted of child molestation or lewd behavior in Atlantic City in 1954, resulting in a probationary sentence.[7][11] During science fiction fandom's "Breendoggle" of 1963-1964, Breen was banned from attending Pacificon II and briefly blackballed from the subculture's main amateur press association after allegations of further pedophilic acts (including the abuse of a 10 year old boy) surfaced.[11] Nevertheless, many prominent fans of the era (including John Boardman), perhaps unaware of Breen's prior conviction, dismissed the allegations as hearsay and "character assassination," and the scandal blew over.[12] Shortly thereafter, Breen married Bradley, who was cognizant of his behavior.[11] A further molestation conviction may have occurred in 1964.[7]
Breen was again arrested on child molestation charges in 1990. He accepted a plea bargain, which resulted in three years' probation.[13]
A year later, he was charged with eight felony counts of child molestation involving a 13-year-old boy.[13] Though diagnosed with liver cancer in 1992, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He died in prison in Chino, California on April 27, 1993.[14]

Thats about all I care to know about the famous author/scumbag >>

Is it really necessary to bring this when it comes to his work on coins?

Author1 · January 31, 2014 9:03AM

Why wouldn't a publisher put it back in print if people are paying over $200 per copy for the book? I've been searching for his Cal Gold book too as it seems that one is even harder to find.

astrorat · January 31, 2014 9:07AM

Wasn't the book available online at no charge at one time in the past few years?

TwoSides2aCoin · January 31, 2014 9:09AM

There are opinions that may have proven to be wrong in areas of the book, but overall, it is comprehensive enough that I trust it for referencing. That's what I use it for and I like that it's the easiest one to pick out (recognize) , of the books on the shelf; with the exception of the Red Book.

TahoeDale · January 31, 2014 9:26AM

If you want information about all the series you are interested in, buy it and don't fret about the cost.

For the first several years after I started collecting rare coins, I must have used it almost daily. It is truly
an encyclopedia of knowledge.

PerryHall · January 31, 2014 9:33AM

Wouldn't it be great if the experts in each series updated this book?

LanceNewmanOCC · January 31, 2014 9:37AM

<< Wouldn't it be great if the experts in each series updated this book? >>

supplements would be welcome on my numismatic shelf.
.

Boosibri · January 31, 2014 9:41AM

I don't own the book but I should... Is much covered in gold post 1834 and Seated?

LochNESS · January 31, 2014 9:44AM

My dad has loved his copy since the day it arrived [onto his shelf] twenty years ago. He always loves to show it to me when I visit his office. I've never used it, but recognize its significance and would expect most Litesiders to own a copy if they choose to have a personal library. Mine is mostly filled with darkside material, plus a smattering of auction catalogs, red books and ANA Numismatist for good measure.

KeyLargoRareCoins · January 31, 2014 9:44AM

<< 

<< Breen, a member of NAMBLA,[4] was initially convicted of child molestation or lewd behavior in Atlantic City in 1954, resulting in a probationary sentence.[7][11] During science fiction fandom's "Breendoggle" of 1963-1964, Breen was banned from attending Pacificon II and briefly blackballed from the subculture's main amateur press association after allegations of further pedophilic acts (including the abuse of a 10 year old boy) surfaced.[11] Nevertheless, many prominent fans of the era (including John Boardman), perhaps unaware of Breen's prior conviction, dismissed the allegations as hearsay and "character assassination," and the scandal blew over.[12] Shortly thereafter, Breen married Bradley, who was cognizant of his behavior.[11] A further molestation conviction may have occurred in 1964.[7]
Breen was again arrested on child molestation charges in 1990. He accepted a plea bargain, which resulted in three years' probation.[13]
A year later, he was charged with eight felony counts of child molestation involving a 13-year-old boy.[13] Though diagnosed with liver cancer in 1992, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He died in prison in Chino, California on April 27, 1993.[14]

Thats about all I care to know about the famous author/scumbag >>

Is it really necessary to bring this when it comes to his work on coins? >>

Yes it is as i wont support anything that has to do with tha disgusting pedifile

georgiacop50 · January 31, 2014 9:51AM

Under $100 ... so far...

kranky · January 31, 2014 9:55AM

Quite a few have sold on ebay for around $100, some a little less, some a little more.

coindeuce · January 31, 2014 10:03AM

To bibliophiles, the condition is critical to value. I can see a well handled copy(maybe even with annotations) selling for < $100. A near Mint to Mint copy should easily bring $125+.

MrHalfDime · January 31, 2014 10:03AM

Like most respondents here, I am able to separate the two sides of Walter Breen, and very much respect his knowledge of United States numismatics. As one stated earlier in this thread, Walter spent countless hours researching original Mint records and the National archives to acquire the vast knowledge represented in his encyclopedia. To be sure, there are some exaggerations, even hyperbole and speculation in some areas, particularly as it relates to the relative rarity of some varieties, but as one respondent stated, this is to be expected as collectors sought to find additional examples. The only real shortcoming of the encyclopedia, to my mind, is the poor quality of the binding, which is almost always found split, with pages falling out. I would encourage you to locate a copy, bite the bullet, and pull the trigger on it. You will not regret it.

DaveG · January 31, 2014 10:07AM

I have also heard people claim he "made up some of the info" but I have never seen credible evidence of such. Mr. Breen spent considerable time examining the early mint records in the National Archives in the 1950s.

While I can't speak to other aspects of this otherwise impressive book, here's something that Breen clearly got very wrong:

On page 400, when discussing the "Arrows Omitted" (1856-1866) design of the Seated half dollar, he says, "[M.F.] Bonzano[, MD, Melter and Refiner of the New Orleans Mint] remained on duty [after the mint was taken over by the CSA] as a Union spy, transmitting secret reports to the Union Treasury, and almost certainly acting on secret orders to delay, minimize, or if possible sabotage any further coinage of gold and silver for the CSA. "We assume that his oath of allegiance to the CSA was done with his fingers crossed behind his back, or else in the manner of Euripides: 'My tongue an oath took, by my heart's unsworn' " (Breen {1977}, p. 239)."

Later, on page 665, he says that Dr. Bonzano "generously offered to stand guard" when the mint was closed on April 30, 1861, and did so until Union troops arrived [in April 1862].

However, in a letter dated November 4, 1887 and reprinted in the Annual Report of the Director of the Mint for the Fiscal Year ending June 30, 1887 (which was usually printed late in the calendar year, which allows for the seeming discrepancy in dates), Dr. Bonzano discusses what happened at the New Orleans Mint in early 1861. He says: "On my return to this city [New Orleans], June 7, 1862, after an absence, at the North, of eleven months, I took charge of the mint as special agent of the Treasury Department. . ."

It seems very clear to me that Dr. Bonzano did not stay in New Orleans after the mint closed, but left the city and returned when the Union troops did. I leave open whether Breen also libels Dr. Bonzano in describing the oath he took.

By the way, the contents of the Breen book were on line at one time a few years ago, but the person who put them on-line was persuaded to remove them (presumably by the current copyright holder).

Author1 · January 31, 2014 10:14AM

<< 

<< 

<< Breen, a member of NAMBLA,[4] was initially convicted of child molestation or lewd behavior in Atlantic City in 1954, resulting in a probationary sentence.[7][11] During science fiction fandom's "Breendoggle" of 1963-1964, Breen was banned from attending Pacificon II and briefly blackballed from the subculture's main amateur press association after allegations of further pedophilic acts (including the abuse of a 10 year old boy) surfaced.[11] Nevertheless, many prominent fans of the era (including John Boardman), perhaps unaware of Breen's prior conviction, dismissed the allegations as hearsay and "character assassination," and the scandal blew over.[12] Shortly thereafter, Breen married Bradley, who was cognizant of his behavior.[11] A further molestation conviction may have occurred in 1964.[7]
Breen was again arrested on child molestation charges in 1990. He accepted a plea bargain, which resulted in three years' probation.[13]
A year later, he was charged with eight felony counts of child molestation involving a 13-year-old boy.[13] Though diagnosed with liver cancer in 1992, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He died in prison in Chino, California on April 27, 1993.[14]

Thats about all I care to know about the famous author/scumbag >>

Is it really necessary to bring this when it comes to his work on coins? >>

Yes it is as i wont support anything that has to do with tha disgusting pedifile >>

Butt he is dead so you aren't supporting anything.

Rampage · January 31, 2014 10:18AM

I will sell you my copy for $125, which if what I paid for it at Books-a-million. It is at my folk's house down south, but I will be visiting there next month. Let me know if you want it and I will bring it back with me.

TomB · January 31, 2014 12:34PM

I've owned my copy for over twenty years, but in the last fifteen years I have likely used it less than a dozen times total. I have a more extensive numismatic library than most and I think there are better sources out there for most of the information. Personally, I would not suggest purchasing this book. As for Breen perhaps making things up, I wrote a thread years ago about his assertions regarding the Washington quarter design selection process and all available evidence that I have ever seen points to his making up the story of how this unfolded.

ambro51 · January 31, 2014 12:50PM

Many times a question comes up on this forum about something and I'm able to go to Breen and contribute valuable information. It's weakness is vast coverage of coins Breen found interesting...page upon page of French Colonies....but maybe one page on Roosevelt dimes. It's NOT a book for everybody. The binding is weak and the book is heavy. Never buy a used one off eBay without asking if it has been dropped and the binding damaged. I took the dust jacket off my copy and made on old school style shopping bag paper cover. Worth the money if you aren't glued to the Net. This is pre net info.

CBJesse · January 31, 2014 12:50PM

I have a copy as well, and while it is an excellent reference in many areas, I do not use more than twice a month, mainly because I have a fairly extensive library in the area I collect and they cover the material in greater depth, as is to be expected with a book that endeavors to cover the full spectrum of US coinage.

That being said, it serves it purpose well, as a fairly in depth reference for all US series and if I could only keep or afford one book, it would most likely be this one.

Coinosaurus · January 31, 2014 12:55PM

The book is indispensable for numismatic researchers and writers. Even if some of the information is occasionally bad, most of the time it gets you pointed in the right direction or gives you an angle you hadn't thought of. No one other single book is even close.

howards · January 31, 2014 1:47PM

<< Wouldn't it be great if the experts in each series updated this book? >>

IMO, that's not feasible. The expert info on most series is enough to fill a book of its own.

Several specialized books on individual series are available and excellent. Breen's book, due to its breadth, cannot cover each individual series in sufficient detail.

OldIndianNutKase · January 31, 2014 2:43PM

<<Is it really necessary to bring this when it comes to his work on coins? >>

If Breen was the only scumbag that contributed to our society, to our collective knowledge base and had a dark side........ Brings to mind a few politicians and priests, that whose contributions remain revered today.

OINK

MGLICKER · January 31, 2014 2:59PM

<< <<Is it really necessary to bring this when it comes to his work on coins? >>

If Breen was the only scumbag that contributed to our society, to our collective knowledge base and had a dark side........ Brings to mind a few politicians and priests, that whose contributions remain revered today.

OINK >>

The opinions are legitimate. Wonder if Dahmer on Dimes or Bundy on Barbers volumes would be well received?

OldIndianNutKase · January 31, 2014 3:14PM

<<The opinions are legitimate. Wonder if Dahmer on Dimes or Bundy on Barbers volumes would be well received?>>

I think that we can accept the information and discredit the author at the same time. Both sides of a coin do not necessarily grade the same.

KeyLargoRareCoins · January 31, 2014 3:40PM

<< 

<< <<Is it really necessary to bring this when it comes to his work on coins? >>

If Breen was the only scumbag that contributed to our society, to our collective knowledge base and had a dark side........ Brings to mind a few politicians and priests, that whose contributions remain revered today.

OINK >>

The opinions are legitimate. Wonder if Dahmer on Dimes or Bundy on Barbers volumes would be well received? >>

Well said sir.
I agree that there was allot of information published by breen however as stated some information may or may not be true. I personally wont have anything to do with anything that he did and choose to get my information elsewhere as imo there are better resources to get the information. Now all may not be in one book however I will spend the extra cash and purchase my info else where

TwoSides2aCoin · January 31, 2014 3:56PM

magikbilly · January 31, 2014 6:05PM

I think if we looked very closely at many people we hold in high regard we might be surprised (not to that sick degree!). Was it Andy Wyeth who said he'd rather not meet his idol Longfellow or whoever because it would inevitably be a let down? The people I know who knew Joan Crawford say she was a fragile creature, but if Mommie Dearest were true, would Mildred Pierce any less of a great film? I guess I can separate the work from the mans stupendous flaws and heinous, terrible crimes. To discard his work, whatever the value, would serve no practical purpose. It exists. Many do reference or mention if frequently regardless of its dubious "aura". Just my .02.

Eric - you like my new icon? I have been showcasing all sorts of different collectibles there ever day or two :-D This is a really rare one and a novel process too - text in German describing the event. Cyanotypes are making a resurgence among "home photographers" and artists. It is fairly simple and rather permanent. The blue is pthalocanynine - blueprint ink.

keets · January 31, 2014 9:15PM

despite its flaws, if I was left with only one Numismatic book that I could use as a reference it would be the Encyclopedia. I wonder two things: 1). has any other Numismatic book received the scrutiny this one has?? 2). with the focus always directed at the "negative" aspects of the book, how much substantiated fact does it contain which was new with its publication and pushed the Hobby forward??

dollarsandcents · January 31, 2014 10:11PM

<< despite its flaws, if I was left with only one Numismatic book that I could use as a reference it would be the Encyclopedia. I wonder two things: 1). has any other Numismatic book received the scrutiny this one has?? 2). with the focus always directed at the "negative" aspects of the book, how much substantiated fact does it contain which was new with its publication and pushed the Hobby forward?? >>

Fantastic questions!

WildIdea · February 1, 2014 12:29AM

<< Wouldn't it be great if the experts in each series updated this book? >>

Ask Kevin Flynn. He's wading through each series with the help of specialist dealers attempting this as we speak.

PerryHall · February 1, 2014 1:32AM

<< 

<< Wouldn't it be great if the experts in each series updated this book? >>

Ask Kevin Flynn. He's wading through each series with the help of specialist dealers attempting this as we speak. >>

Great news!

johnny9434 · February 1, 2014 1:47AM

i got mine about 9 years ago. i paid under a $100 for it at that time. if i remember right it was off of amazon if youd like to check that out as well. best wishes

Shamika · February 1, 2014 3:00AM

I found a NM copy with dust jacket at a used book store for $65. In hindsight I should have haggled for a better price.

Despite what you may think of Breen personally, the book is a monumental work and a great start to a numismatic library. The fact that the going rate is north of $100 says a lot.

shorecoll · February 1, 2014 3:11AM

A near-new copy, in my opinion, has a wholesale value of about $125, so if you find one for that or less you are doing well. "Retail", again in my opinion, is about $200. Condition is key and the binding is fragile...if you think grading varies for coins, books are worse. There are some printings that are less fragile, but I don't remember which. Sometimes you'll see a flurry on eBay, sometimes you don't see any. FYI, I have a spare available as well.

Tibor · February 1, 2014 3:13AM

Breen was the ultimate researcher in numismatics. His personal life was horrid to say the least. He was
known to embellish the truth more than once. The overall knowledge that you will gain from his writings
will last a life time. Sheldon who wrote Penny Whimsy stole or replaced countless coins in the ANS
collection yet his book is still the leading source for knowledge when it comes to early large cents.
His grading system is still used today with some modifications. The cost of knowledge from a good book
or reference is priceless.

Treashunt · February 1, 2014 8:32PM

I have frequently read that Breen never met a fact that he couldn't make up.

That said, I found that the worst part of the book was his reference to various varieties as 'rare'.

Ignore that and the book is good

ambro51 · February 1, 2014 9:34PM

I've met Kevin Flynn and will say possibly he IS the man to "update" the concept of Breens Encyclopedia. Not that he personally has the vast experience and mental powers of Breen, but he does have the ability to "use" acknowledged experts to amplify his writing.

LochNESS · February 2, 2014 6:22PM

We enjoy movies starring drug addicts, some who died of overdose.
We enjoy music played by convicted rapists, drug dealers, drug addicts, etc. The first charge is perhaps the most appropriate to this thread and true in multiple cases, most notably Tupac.
We enjoy sports feats achieved by athletes who use drugs, beat their wives and loved ones, commit vehicular homicide (and in some cases regular homicide), and worse.
We enjoy books written by people like Breen.

We do this for many reasons: (1) we are ignorant of the crimes; (2) we only care about the art, not the human being who created it; (3) society tells us it's OK for the artist to sacrifice and destroy themselves and others surrounding them if the product is great art.

MICHAELDIXON · February 2, 2014 9:10PM

I bought mine in 1988 whenever it was first published. For the time, it was the best we had. For those who were not around at the time, you probably would not understand, because of all the reference material that has been published in the last 26 years. I would still recommend one for every numismatic library, since it has valuable information which is still relevant.

As BillJones wrote: He made some comments about rarity, which have proven not be true, but that is often the pattern. When an authority says something is rare, large numbers of collectors start looking for it, and sometimes more of them are discovered. This is very true, and we must remember it was at the beginning of the internet era and most individuals didn't have access to the net. There wasn't the plethora of information available as there is now, which we can verify at the click of a mouse. Breen's book was published from decades of first hand research. Now, with all the information available on the internet, updating the book wouldn't take long. I am surprised nobody has undertaken the task.

Walter Breen's Encyclopedia of US Coins

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