<< <i>This whole thread is much ado about nothing. >>
You obviously don't understand the problem.
The bottom line is...
PSA is the industry's leading grading and authentication company.
Grading paper cutouts cheapens the brand. >>
Exactly right IMO. Been waiting for this answer. The slab brings a whole cache - or you would not care who you submit to. It is like some OTHER services. I'd not want my autographs in a slab who is known for passing problematic material, or my coins in something other than top 2 or 3 TPG. All you need do is look at prices realized to see there is a difference. There is a reason PCGS coins bring more. Maybe someone can explain how this is helping your collection of cards if thses things are NOT in the registry. Who benefits?
So let's see , if there was a Plaxico Burress master set , do we include the New York Times write up on his off the field issues ? Do we include the Pittsburgh Post Gazette's write up ? How about the Dundalk Eagle ? How about the ............ ?
Where does it end ? After all , just like all those Elvis collections or Beach Boys collections , I can here it now ---- " No players set is complete without ( ------------------- fill in the blank ---- ) newspaper write up with said athlete's personal news .
Just my centavo ---- Sonny
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
<< <i>So let's see , if there was a Plaxico Burress master set , do we include the New York Times write up on his off the field issues ? Do we include the Pittsburgh Post Gazette's write up ? How about the Dundalk Eagle ? How about the ............ ?
Where does it end ? After all , just like all those Elvis collections or Beach Boys collections , I can here it now ---- " No players set is complete without ( ------------------- fill in the blank ---- ) newspaper write up with said athlete's personal news .
Just my centavo ---- Sonny
------------------------- " In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell >>
Yes. Were I in the business, I would slab them ALL. But, I am not.
Do you own the Puffy Sticker pack? I remember bidding on that on ebay and losing and being very upset. I should have come stronger i guess, but in the end it looks like you would probably have won regardless, based on some pif the stuff i have seen you post.
if you ever decide to part with it, please give me a shot.
I collect Steve Garvey, Dodgers and signed cards. Collector since 1978.
If it can be graded and does not violate normal human ethical standards, then apparently it can be slabbed.
They have no moral high ground to stand on, and who cares because they live in a sports collectible world where ethics are fuzzy at best.
One poster that said it "cheapens the brand" has a point, but obviously that is a trade-off they are willing to make.
They are not so concerned with that given their massive market share, and obviously feel that the bottom line dollars on increased grading fees are worth losing some small percentage of grading fees by collectors that feel the brand is weakening. Remember that they only make money grading and authenticating. What a PSA-graded item sells for is not a huge concern as long as fees keep increasing. There really is not much down-side for them to grade as many things as they can.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
I have a vague recollection of buying that from a dealer who used to have a place in Norcross Georgia, outside Atlanta. Could be wrong
Dave---where are you in St Louis ? I was born in Webster, grew up in Parkview off Skinker, and Richmond Heights. Then lived in Manchester ( 141 and Big Bend), and Wildwood, Wild Horse Creek Road, before moving to Texas in 1995
If it can be graded and does not violate normal human ethical standards, then apparently it can be slabbed.
They have no moral high ground to stand on, and who cares because they live in a sports collectible world where ethics are fuzzy at best.
One poster that said it "cheapens the brand" has a point, but obviously that is a trade-off they are willing to make.
They are not so concerned with that given their massive market share, and obviously feel that the bottom line dollars on increased grading fees are worth losing some small percentage of grading fees by collectors that feel the brand is weakening. Remember that they only make money grading and authenticating. What a PSA-graded item sells for is not a huge concern as long as fees keep increasing. There really is not much down-side for them to grade as many things as they can.
I agree with all of this, and I'd probably slab even more than they do if it were my company.
I will say the arbitrary nature of what they decide to slab is incredibly frustrating when you're trying to get a particular card graded and they refuse to slab it. For instance, they will slab random cutouts like this, but I try and get some 83 Starliner Stickers slabbed (which are in Beckett and the Standard Catalog) and they come back no-holder. And then there's the whole Star basketball thing which they stick to their guns on when you can CLEARLY tell which are counterfeit and there is research out there saying which cards were printed post-production year. I just had a 92 Fleer basketball perforated Jordan from a magazine slabbed and PSA labeled it a regular 92 Fleer. How many 92 Fleer cards did you pull out of a pack that were perforated? And it's not a mislabel because they don't have a perforated magazine Jordan in the pop report.
I just think if they came out with clear guidelines as to what they would grade and why, it would leave us less confused. They could grade Joe Orlando's son's crayon drawings of Tom Brady and I really wouldn't care, just let us know so we're not flying blind. I can't tell you how much stuff I've bought under the assumption that they could get slabbed and end up out $$ when they come back no-holder.
The problem is it does not fit their own criteria for card grading. Which makes all their services questionable!
"Trading Card Grading" Trading cards of all genres, both sports and non-sports, can be submitted to PSA. Once the card graders have determined the card to be genuine, they are then asked to determine whether or not the card shows evidence of doctoring. Doctoring is best described as the attempt to enhance the condition of a card by altering the condition, such as re-coloring or trimming.
I wonder if one of the Ryans snuck through somehow and then the others got through......it is hard to imagine that PSA would slab that picture.....there are so many other things they could slab for starters like Star basketball, Exhibit cards from the other sports and some other obscure issues where it is hard to pinpoint all the information while 90% of it may be known......it will be interesting once a response is given.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
I got this picture from a 1955 New York Giants yearbook. If I cut it out cleanly, will PSA grade it? I would love to have a pop 1 on the Willie Mays registry that no one else has slabbed!!
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>I got this picture from a 1955 New York Giants yearbook. If I cut it out cleanly, will PSA grade it? I would love to have a pop 1 on the Willie Mays registry that no one else has slabbed!!
>>
send it in...looks GEM!
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps - uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
I think the most likely-case scenario is that is PSA keeps grading these cutouts they will not require them for any master sets; instead, they'll all be optional, like the disc proofs and what not from the '80s.
<< <i>Dave---where are you in St Louis ? I was born in Webster, grew up in Parkview off Skinker, and Richmond Heights. Then lived in Manchester ( 141 and Big Bend), and Wildwood, Wild Horse Creek Road, before moving to Texas in 1995 >>
I moved to the south end of Webster Groves, near Elm and Watson, about two years ago. Before that I lived in West St. Louis County in Ballwin and Chesterfield for almost 20 years.
My daughter's lived in Richmond Heights for the last five years.
Small world it is.
How is Texas? You've been there awhile now so you must like it.
Must be hard to be an Astros fan if you are one.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i>Cdnuts hit the nail on the head. I agree 100%. >>
Yes he's right. Clarification is called for, because right now it's really unclear what they're doing.
What's eligible for master registry sets needs to be clarified, and please explain why Star basketball and other sets cannot be graded while photos and clippings can.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i>The Ryan "card" that started this thread is a required part of the Nolan Ryan Master Set and without question should be removed and added as optional.
Kevin >>
Absolutely! +1
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>The Ryan "card" that started this thread is a required part of the Nolan Ryan Master Set and without question should be removed and added as optional.
Kevin >>
Absolutely! +1 >>
+2
And I'm not a player master registry set collector, either.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I don't really have a problem if their position is they will grade anything that fits in a slab... Just be consistent. Don't reject a card just because it's not in some publication and then decide to slab a news paper clipping...
<< <i>Dave---where are you in St Louis ? I was born in Webster, grew up in Parkview off Skinker, and Richmond Heights. Then lived in Manchester ( 141 and Big Bend), and Wildwood, Wild Horse Creek Road, before moving to Texas in 1995 >>
I moved to the south end of Webster Groves, near Elm and Watson, about two years ago. Before that I lived in West St. Louis County in Ballwin and Chesterfield for almost 20 years.
My daughter's lived in Richmond Heights for the last five years.
Small world it is.
How is Texas? You've been there awhile now so you must like it.
Must be hard to be an Astros fan if you are one. >>
Small world indeed! I grew up in Webster as well, right by Clark and Bompart.
<< <i>The Ryan "card" that started this thread is a required part of the Nolan Ryan Master Set and without question should be removed and added as optional.
Kevin >>
It may be in the master for now, but I'll bet it won't be in six months. Once a couple of guys complain-- and they will, I'm sure of it-- PSA will take these out.
Cool, so when will the Dennis Rodman Playgirl photos be added to my master set?
I think this is insane from a registry standpoint. Its a desperate attempt from a few pre 80s player collectors to breath life into stagnant registries.
1- should be slabbed as magazine/newspaper clipping.... they are all handcut and cataloging 100 years of media is an absolutely impossible task and none of this crap shpuld be cataloged... they cant even get cards slabbed right as it is.
2-nothing can be added to registries! also, they are technically authenticating this stuff so your telling me theyll be able to detect a high quality copy of a oddball yearbook or magazine photo?
Not only authenticating, but grading them as well - essentially a lot of stuff they may have never seen before. I remember back in the stone age, it was thought you had to see a a good many examples of an item to begin to determine what was exceptional. This is what I meant about jamming these things into a grade structure meant for a wholly different animal. I don't see how this can be done correctly.
"Under the PSA Autograph Grading service, a Babe Ruth signed photograph would receive one grade - a grade reflecting the condition of the autograph only. With all of the various objects that autographs can be found upon, it would be virtually impossible to assign a grade to each object."
Eric
Edit to add: And I was not happy when they started authenticating photographs as original/period restrike/reprint/later copy photo etc. I can count on one hand the number of folks I know who can regularly tell a true 1950 movie still from a restrike - in just the one field. They will be able to accurately authenticate and grade a photo of Ruth cut from...my small local paper?
<< <i>I don't really have a problem if their position is they will grade anything that fits in a slab... Just be consistent. Don't reject a card just because it's not in some publication and then decide to slab a news paper clipping... >>
It's not that they won't grade a card, it's that they're not going to spend the time to do the research to properly identify it. I can't really blame them for that aspect, either. I've spent hours and hours of research trying to identify a piece because I enjoy that part of the hobby. But I don't expect them to do that for every $15 submission, it's cost prohibitive. It makes more sense for them to send it back N9 and wait for someone else to do the legwork. What chaps my arse is when they occasionally just take the submitter's word for it and toss something in a slab that is incorrectly labeled. Once an issue is incorrectly labeled it's near impossible to go back and correct it, so they just go with what they did the first time (see numerous pre-war boxing issues for example).
But this all plays into the consistency criticism of many. If you're going to stonewall pieces due to lack of info... fine. But don't then slab something that has no research put into it because it screws with the collections of people that are trying to accurately identify pieces.
I agree that if a date, manufacturer, checklist can't be proven then it shouldn't be slabbed. In fact I think they are doing their job by rejecting cards that they can't catalogue with 100% accuracy. What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency.
<< <i>I agree that if a date, manufacturer, checklist can't be proven then it shouldn't be slabbed. In fact I think they are doing their job by rejecting cards that they can't catalogue with 100% accuracy. What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency. >>
+1
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
I am sure everyone wants to know PSA's stance on this. I have a bunch of old team yearbooks I can't wait to cut out all the pictures of players that are in there. This suddenly makes my old yearbooks with writing on the cover valuable again!! The sum of all the photos should exceed the value of the program!
<< <i>What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency. >>
Best post explaining how I feel. Thank you!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
<< <i>What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency. >>
<< <i>I agree that if a date, manufacturer, checklist can't be proven then it shouldn't be slabbed. In fact I think they are doing their job by rejecting cards that they can't catalogue with 100% accuracy. What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency. >>
I agree with you. I think my last sub was about 60-70% N9, maybe more. It was ridiculous. But I'd rather have them err on the side of caution then the opposite. But like you said, there's no consistency. I mean, there are cards slabbed 1921 that depict movie scenes from 1924. Obviously, they didn't have any proof that the cards were from 1921 (since they're obviously not) but they slabbed them anyway. To me, this is a bigger problem then them slabbing newspaper clippings.
But it's a tough job. I'm not sure I've seen a pre-war foreign album that had a manufactured date printed on it so, in many instances, the album is only good for eliminating an issue date floor -- meaning the cards or album mention an event that occurred so we know they weren't manufactured before that. In some instances, they provide period information that can help close a window (like mentioning someone is the current middleweight champ and they eventually became the heavyweight champ, etc) but that's if you're lucky. But once something gets incorrectly labeled we can forget about it getting corrected because they don't want to screw with the pop report.
If it can be graded and does not violate normal human ethical standards, then apparently it can be slabbed.
They have no moral high ground to stand on, and who cares because they live in a sports collectible world where ethics are fuzzy at best.
One poster that said it "cheapens the brand" has a point, but obviously that is a trade-off they are willing to make.
They are not so concerned with that given their massive market share, and obviously feel that the bottom line dollars on increased grading fees are worth losing some small percentage of grading fees by collectors that feel the brand is weakening. Remember that they only make money grading and authenticating. What a PSA-graded item sells for is not a huge concern as long as fees keep increasing. There really is not much down-side for them to grade as many things as they can.
I agree with all of this, and I'd probably slab even more than they do if it were my company.
I will say the arbitrary nature of what they decide to slab is incredibly frustrating when you're trying to get a particular card graded and they refuse to slab it. For instance, they will slab random cutouts like this, but I try and get some 83 Starliner Stickers slabbed (which are in Beckett and the Standard Catalog) and they come back no-holder. And then there's the whole Star basketball thing which they stick to their guns on when you can CLEARLY tell which are counterfeit and there is research out there saying which cards were printed post-production year. I just had a 92 Fleer basketball perforated Jordan from a magazine slabbed and PSA labeled it a regular 92 Fleer. How many 92 Fleer cards did you pull out of a pack that were perforated? And it's not a mislabel because they don't have a perforated magazine Jordan in the pop report.
I just think if they came out with clear guidelines as to what they would grade and why, it would leave us less confused. They could grade Joe Orlando's son's crayon drawings of Tom Brady and I really wouldn't care, just let us know so we're not flying blind. I can't tell you how much stuff I've bought under the assumption that they could get slabbed and end up out $$ when they come back no-holder.
Lee >>
I agree with cdnuts on the Star Basketball. Counterfeits can be spotted a mile away by Ray Charles. CLEAR and EASY tells. Makes no sense not to grade them...
Reggie.. I Agree with you about most vintage sets.. But the modern ones are pretty easy with dates ect.. Right on the album.. Is there any doubt about this one from 2009 for example Abril Gol Cards . This the last one that psa rejected my request to grade... But I have several other examples..
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>This whole thread is much ado about nothing. >>
You obviously don't understand the problem.
The bottom line is...
PSA is the industry's leading grading and authentication company.
Grading paper cutouts cheapens the brand. >>
Exactly right IMO. Been waiting for this answer. The slab brings a whole cache - or you would not care who you submit to.
It is like some OTHER services. I'd not want my autographs in a slab who is known for passing problematic material, or my coins in something other than top 2 or 3 TPG. All you need do is look at prices realized to see there is a difference. There is a reason PCGS coins bring more.
Maybe someone can explain how this is helping your collection of cards if thses things are NOT in the registry. Who benefits?
Eric
Where does it end ? After all , just like all those Elvis collections or Beach Boys collections , I can here it now ---- " No players set is complete without ( ------------------- fill in the blank ---- ) newspaper write up with said athlete's personal news .
Just my centavo ---- Sonny
<< <i>So let's see , if there was a Plaxico Burress master set , do we include the New York Times write up on his off the field issues ? Do we include the Pittsburgh Post Gazette's write up ? How about the Dundalk Eagle ? How about the ............ ?
Where does it end ? After all , just like all those Elvis collections or Beach Boys collections , I can here it now ---- " No players set is complete without ( ------------------- fill in the blank ---- ) newspaper write up with said athlete's personal news .
Just my centavo ---- Sonny
-------------------------
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell >>
Yes. Were I in the business, I would slab them ALL. But, I am not.
Eric
Eric
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Do you own the Puffy Sticker pack? I remember bidding on that on ebay and losing and being very upset. I should have come stronger i guess, but in the end it looks like you would probably have won regardless, based on some pif the stuff i have seen you post.
if you ever decide to part with it, please give me a shot.
<< <i>Where does it end? >>
It doesn't. And it's a brilliant strategy.
If it can be graded and does not violate normal human ethical standards,
then apparently it can be slabbed.
They have no moral high ground to stand on, and who cares because
they live in a sports collectible world where ethics are fuzzy at best.
One poster that said it "cheapens the brand" has a point, but obviously that
is a trade-off they are willing to make.
They are not so concerned with that given their massive market share,
and obviously feel that the bottom line dollars on increased grading fees
are worth losing some small percentage of grading fees by collectors
that feel the brand is weakening. Remember that they only make money
grading and authenticating. What a PSA-graded item sells for is not a huge
concern as long as fees keep increasing. There really is not much
down-side for them to grade as many things as they can.
DaveB in St.Louis
Dave---where are you in St Louis ? I was born in Webster, grew up in Parkview off Skinker, and Richmond Heights. Then lived in Manchester ( 141 and Big Bend), and Wildwood, Wild Horse Creek Road, before moving to Texas in 1995
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
It doesn't. And it's a brilliant strategy.
If it can be graded and does not violate normal human ethical standards,
then apparently it can be slabbed.
They have no moral high ground to stand on, and who cares because
they live in a sports collectible world where ethics are fuzzy at best.
One poster that said it "cheapens the brand" has a point, but obviously that
is a trade-off they are willing to make.
They are not so concerned with that given their massive market share,
and obviously feel that the bottom line dollars on increased grading fees
are worth losing some small percentage of grading fees by collectors
that feel the brand is weakening. Remember that they only make money
grading and authenticating. What a PSA-graded item sells for is not a huge
concern as long as fees keep increasing. There really is not much
down-side for them to grade as many things as they can.
I agree with all of this, and I'd probably slab even more than they do if it were my company.
I will say the arbitrary nature of what they decide to slab is incredibly frustrating when you're trying to get a particular card graded and they refuse to slab it. For instance, they will slab random cutouts like this, but I try and get some 83 Starliner Stickers slabbed (which are in Beckett and the Standard Catalog) and they come back no-holder. And then there's the whole Star basketball thing which they stick to their guns on when you can CLEARLY tell which are counterfeit and there is research out there saying which cards were printed post-production year. I just had a 92 Fleer basketball perforated Jordan from a magazine slabbed and PSA labeled it a regular 92 Fleer. How many 92 Fleer cards did you pull out of a pack that were perforated? And it's not a mislabel because they don't have a perforated magazine Jordan in the pop report.
I just think if they came out with clear guidelines as to what they would grade and why, it would leave us less confused. They could grade Joe Orlando's son's crayon drawings of Tom Brady and I really wouldn't care, just let us know so we're not flying blind. I can't tell you how much stuff I've bought under the assumption that they could get slabbed and end up out $$ when they come back no-holder.
Lee
should we start a list...
Photostamps...
Proofs...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
"Trading Card Grading"
Trading cards of all genres, both sports and non-sports, can be submitted to PSA. Once the card graders have determined the card to be genuine, they are then asked to determine whether or not the card shows evidence of doctoring. Doctoring is best described as the attempt to enhance the condition of a card by altering the condition, such as re-coloring or trimming.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>I got this picture from a 1955 New York Giants yearbook. If I cut it out cleanly, will PSA grade it? I would love to have a pop 1 on the Willie Mays registry that no one else has slabbed!!
send it in...looks GEM!
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
1956 Pittsburgh Pirates Yearbook ROBERTO CLEMENTE Hand Cut - PSA 9 (MINT)
The Clemente collectors would fight to get their hands on that one!
<< <i>How about this one?!?! Even better!!
1956 Pittsburgh Pirates Yearbook ROBERTO CLEMENTE Hand Cut - PSA 9 (MINT)
The Clemente collectors would fight to get their hands on that one! >>
Yes! I'm pretty sure this would be a variation with the extra large "P" on his hat.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>Dave---where are you in St Louis ? I was born in Webster, grew up in Parkview off Skinker, and Richmond Heights. Then lived in Manchester ( 141 and Big Bend), and Wildwood, Wild Horse Creek Road, before moving to Texas in 1995 >>
I moved to the south end of Webster Groves, near Elm and Watson, about two years ago.
Before that I lived in West St. Louis County in Ballwin and Chesterfield for almost 20 years.
My daughter's lived in Richmond Heights for the last five years.
Small world it is.
How is Texas? You've been there awhile now so you must like it.
Must be hard to be an Astros fan if you are one.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>Cdnuts hit the nail on the head. I agree 100%. >>
Yes he's right. Clarification is called for, because right now it's really unclear
what they're doing.
What's eligible for master registry sets needs to be clarified, and please explain why
Star basketball and other sets cannot be graded while photos and clippings can.
DaveB in St.Louis
Kevin
<< <i>The Ryan "card" that started this thread is a required part of the Nolan Ryan Master Set and without question should be removed and added as optional.
Kevin >>
Absolutely! +1
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>
<< <i>The Ryan "card" that started this thread is a required part of the Nolan Ryan Master Set and without question should be removed and added as optional.
Kevin >>
Absolutely! +1 >>
+2
And I'm not a player master registry set collector, either.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>Dave---where are you in St Louis ? I was born in Webster, grew up in Parkview off Skinker, and Richmond Heights. Then lived in Manchester ( 141 and Big Bend), and Wildwood, Wild Horse Creek Road, before moving to Texas in 1995 >>
I moved to the south end of Webster Groves, near Elm and Watson, about two years ago.
Before that I lived in West St. Louis County in Ballwin and Chesterfield for almost 20 years.
My daughter's lived in Richmond Heights for the last five years.
Small world it is.
How is Texas? You've been there awhile now so you must like it.
Must be hard to be an Astros fan if you are one. >>
Small world indeed! I grew up in Webster as well, right by Clark and Bompart.
<< <i>The Ryan "card" that started this thread is a required part of the Nolan Ryan Master Set and without question should be removed and added as optional.
Kevin >>
It may be in the master for now, but I'll bet it won't be in six months. Once a couple of guys complain-- and they will, I'm sure of it-- PSA will take these out.
I think this is insane from a registry standpoint. Its a desperate attempt from a few pre 80s player collectors to breath life into stagnant registries.
1- should be slabbed as magazine/newspaper clipping.... they are all handcut and cataloging 100 years of media is an absolutely impossible task and none of this crap shpuld be cataloged... they cant even get cards slabbed right as it is.
2-nothing can be added to registries! also, they are technically authenticating this stuff so your telling me theyll be able to detect a high quality copy of a oddball yearbook or magazine photo?
Eric
Eric
Edit to add: And I was not happy when they started authenticating photographs as original/period restrike/reprint/later copy photo etc. I can count on one hand the number of folks I know who can regularly tell a true 1950 movie still from a restrike - in just the one field. They will be able to accurately authenticate and grade a photo of Ruth cut from...my small local paper?
<< <i>I don't really have a problem if their position is they will grade anything that fits in a slab... Just be consistent. Don't reject a card just because it's not in some publication and then decide to slab a news paper clipping... >>
It's not that they won't grade a card, it's that they're not going to spend the time to do the research to properly identify it. I can't really blame them for that aspect, either. I've spent hours and hours of research trying to identify a piece because I enjoy that part of the hobby. But I don't expect them to do that for every $15 submission, it's cost prohibitive. It makes more sense for them to send it back N9 and wait for someone else to do the legwork. What chaps my arse is when they occasionally just take the submitter's word for it and toss something in a slab that is incorrectly labeled. Once an issue is incorrectly labeled it's near impossible to go back and correct it, so they just go with what they did the first time (see numerous pre-war boxing issues for example).
But this all plays into the consistency criticism of many. If you're going to stonewall pieces due to lack of info... fine. But don't then slab something that has no research put into it because it screws with the collections of people that are trying to accurately identify pieces.
Then again, it's just sportscards.
<< <i>Then again, it's just sportscards >>
Or newspaper clippings.
<< <i>I agree that if a date, manufacturer, checklist can't be proven then it shouldn't be slabbed. In fact I think they are doing their job by rejecting cards that they can't catalogue with 100% accuracy. What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency. >>
+1
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency. >>
Best post explaining how I feel. Thank you!
<< <i>What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency. >>
+2
<< <i>I agree that if a date, manufacturer, checklist can't be proven then it shouldn't be slabbed. In fact I think they are doing their job by rejecting cards that they can't catalogue with 100% accuracy. What chaps my arse is when you provide all that information and back it up with scans of albums or advertisements that proves the year, make ect... And you get some lazy lazy response like sorry we can't grade these at this time... And then you see a news paper clipping slabbed and graded. There is no consistency. >>
I agree with you. I think my last sub was about 60-70% N9, maybe more. It was ridiculous. But I'd rather have them err on the side of caution then the opposite. But like you said, there's no consistency. I mean, there are cards slabbed 1921 that depict movie scenes from 1924. Obviously, they didn't have any proof that the cards were from 1921 (since they're obviously not) but they slabbed them anyway. To me, this is a bigger problem then them slabbing newspaper clippings.
But it's a tough job. I'm not sure I've seen a pre-war foreign album that had a manufactured date printed on it so, in many instances, the album is only good for eliminating an issue date floor -- meaning the cards or album mention an event that occurred so we know they weren't manufactured before that. In some instances, they provide period information that can help close a window (like mentioning someone is the current middleweight champ and they eventually became the heavyweight champ, etc) but that's if you're lucky. But once something gets incorrectly labeled we can forget about it getting corrected because they don't want to screw with the pop report.
<< <i><< Where does it end? >>
It doesn't. And it's a brilliant strategy.
If it can be graded and does not violate normal human ethical standards,
then apparently it can be slabbed.
They have no moral high ground to stand on, and who cares because
they live in a sports collectible world where ethics are fuzzy at best.
One poster that said it "cheapens the brand" has a point, but obviously that
is a trade-off they are willing to make.
They are not so concerned with that given their massive market share,
and obviously feel that the bottom line dollars on increased grading fees
are worth losing some small percentage of grading fees by collectors
that feel the brand is weakening. Remember that they only make money
grading and authenticating. What a PSA-graded item sells for is not a huge
concern as long as fees keep increasing. There really is not much
down-side for them to grade as many things as they can.
I agree with all of this, and I'd probably slab even more than they do if it were my company.
I will say the arbitrary nature of what they decide to slab is incredibly frustrating when you're trying to get a particular card graded and they refuse to slab it. For instance, they will slab random cutouts like this, but I try and get some 83 Starliner Stickers slabbed (which are in Beckett and the Standard Catalog) and they come back no-holder. And then there's the whole Star basketball thing which they stick to their guns on when you can CLEARLY tell which are counterfeit and there is research out there saying which cards were printed post-production year. I just had a 92 Fleer basketball perforated Jordan from a magazine slabbed and PSA labeled it a regular 92 Fleer. How many 92 Fleer cards did you pull out of a pack that were perforated? And it's not a mislabel because they don't have a perforated magazine Jordan in the pop report.
I just think if they came out with clear guidelines as to what they would grade and why, it would leave us less confused. They could grade Joe Orlando's son's crayon drawings of Tom Brady and I really wouldn't care, just let us know so we're not flying blind. I can't tell you how much stuff I've bought under the assumption that they could get slabbed and end up out $$ when they come back no-holder.
Lee >>
I agree with cdnuts on the Star Basketball. Counterfeits can be spotted a mile away by Ray Charles. CLEAR and EASY tells. Makes no sense not to grade them...