<< <i>Someone please explain to me how this is different than grading a sheet cut card? At least the sheet cut card is a card. >>
I agree they are basically the same thing. I've always thought sheet cut cards should be graded with a qualifier of SC or "SHEET CUT" on the card. I think a qualifier would be the better way to go though. To me a card that was on a sheet and cut out perfectly is a really nice looking card and should be slabbed with a qualifier. The fact it didn't suffer through the same distribution and possible damage that a regular issue card did is what make the SC designation necessary. A sheet cut card is worthy of a slab, however, it should be valued and graded lower than a regular-issue counterpart.
I think PSA should slab nearly everything they are sent with the exception of magazine cuts there were never meant to be cards. I think they should just encapsulate and not authenticate or grade Broders because it opens a whole can of worms. People could just print up cards on their printers and get them graded. Encapsulating them is fine. Grading or authenticating them is not.
I think someone mentioned using the green label for Broders and unlicensed cards and I think that is a great idea. I asked PSA about that at one point, and was told they wouldn't do that though.
I tried finding the Sporting News that had that Ryan in it, and couldn't find it online for the life of me. I'm betting all these came from the same source. How they got PSA to recognize them as anything is beyond me. They must have provided some sort of documentation. Perhaps PSA made an exception because it was a "pre-rookie" of a very popular player and there was a demand for it. Perhaps the definition of a card isn't the same for all players. I think I would be hard-pressed to get a no name player photo from the same issue authenticated.
what's even more hilarious is the back newsprint showing through the paper, essentially distorting the very image which is being declared as part of an overall mint example. they do account for surface flaws, no?
any baseball card with this same print across the front surface would earn no better than a 5.
<< <i> My prediction is if PSA starting promoting the destroying of old publications, if indirectly by grading and registering the cutout pictures, there would be a widespread boycott of PSA/CU, including by many of their their current autograph, coin and comic book customers. Clearly, CU member comic book collectors won't be keen on old illustrated publications being cut up to satisfy the baseball card registry. >>
Don't stop there. I predict total anarchy with riots in the streets.
<< <i> My prediction is if PSA starting promoting the destroying of old publications, if indirectly by grading and registering the cutout pictures, there would be a widespread boycott of PSA/CU, including by many of their their current autograph, coin and comic book customers. Clearly, CU member comic book collectors won't be keen on old illustrated publications being cut up to satisfy the baseball card registry. >>
Don't stop there. I predict total anarchy with riots in the streets. >>
Det. Thorn: It's people. PSA green flips are made out of people. They're making our flips out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for flips. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!
Hatcher: I promise, Tiger. I promise. I'll tell the exchange.
Det. Thorn: You tell everybody. Listen to me, Hatcher. You've gotta tell them! PSA green flips are people! We've gotta stop them somehow!
OK, so the next logical step is to expand this cash crop. Can I send them a greeting card from 1975? It's one my wife has saved. It has a copy right date on the back. It's a beautiful card with a wonderful poem. And we also have a Mark McGwire ornament that came with official Hallmark paperwork. And then there are some Disney collectibles and some Precious Moments authenticity sheets. I would also like to see a registry for my Craftsman Tool cards. And my question still has not been answered; if I cut out a Mr Universe weight building ad from a 60's comic book, how do you determine the year (they ran the same ad, unchanged for many years in Marvel, DC, and other magazines such as MAD) and publication?
There just has to be a control to this madness and I suppose there will be an eventual standard, determined by the company or it's customers. Perhaps PSA will listen to the Pros and Cons to make a sound decision. Companies prosper and fail because of their business practices.
CURRENT PROJECTS IN WORK: To be honest, no direction, but... 1966-69 Topps EX+ 1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9 All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>Don't stop there. I predict total anarchy with riots in the streets. >>
Det. Thorn: It's people. PSA green flips are made out of people. They're making our flips out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for flips. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!
Hatcher: I promise, Tiger. I promise. I'll tell the exchange.
Det. Thorn: You tell everybody. Listen to me, Hatcher. You've gotta tell them! PSA green flips are people! We've gotta stop them somehow! >>
This book thinks you better get that info to the exchange!
Finally, some people who feel like I felt when I saw this! we need a response from the Mr. Orlando to clear this up. It does matter a great deal to those of us who collect on a large scale.
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Well this is exactly why grading a news paper is so frustrating. I just got this in response to a question I had about grading a 1995 Rugby card. The manufacturer and date are clearly on the card and I provided a scan of the checklist card. A quick google search will show that its a common manufacturer of rugby cards ect... Here is the response I got... It's the same crap I got when asked about the soccer set. Now I fully understand psa won't make a ton of money by grading these... But there has to be more consistency. If the criteria is based on expected volume then just say so so I don't waste my time.
"Unfortunately, the Research Department could not find these cards cataloged anywhere. PSA will not be able to grade these cards. I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact customer service."
BTW, does anyone know if these cutouts were recently catalogued? (like in Beckett or the Standard Catalog) I usually thought that PSA would only holder cards that were catalogued.
Okay, so I read through all the comments with equal parts of outrage, amusement and confusion. After some thought I believe the only logic by which the un-named party was able to convince PSA of the validity of this particular photo as worthy of both a slab (agnostic) and inclusion into the master set (incredulous) is that this photo is pre-rookie card. If this is true then the list of "faces in the crowd" seem to be a potential path by which a few of us can cash in. Also, IMO this strategy by PSA is quite shortsighted. They may make a few bucks now, but they demoralize dozens of potential collectors due to delegitimizing everyone's collection and demolishing any sense of permanent completion. Let me give you all a small example. Recently, PSA has included two "new" variations in the 1973 topps set consisting of two cards which have a small "gap" in their black border. Obvious this is just a print defect not a true variation as one can find border issues on many cards. Shortly after, 3 individuals decided to sell-off their collection. What is the purpose of building a set if every couple of years someone can now find any variant of a card and claim a new variation?
And at the same time they refuse to slab wrongbacks as variations. What is more of a TRUE variation, when a plate is not changed and cards have another players stats on the reverse or when a "goober" somehow gets on the plate and causes a small amount of ink to be missing?
Seems odd to me.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Does not seem to be a card to me or intended to be a card......
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
OK -- I'll amend my comment with a qualification or two.
They will grade anything that they feel comfortable grading and, most importantly, that money can be made grading.
I don't see how they can actually give these a numeric grade since they haven't published anything on their website regarding a grading scale. I would think that they just give it an AUTH instead but apparently not.
But what truly is a joke is that now we have guys destroying baseball guides for cut-outs and putting outrageous prices on them on eBAY. If somebody wants to pay $439 for one of these then P.T. Barnum was really understating his point.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
The 1966 Sporting News Nolan Ryan PSA 9 paper cutout in the Greg Bussineau auction now has 3 bids and is up to $750 ($625 plus the 20% buyer's premium).
<< <i>My idle guess is that it was just a one time deal, that PSA may or may not regret in hindsight, and they won't do it again. If so, I'll give them a pass. >>
You can't fault PSA for doing what they can do to make a buck.
I believe that these things are true though:
1) These should never be in a registry set 2) People that pay big dollars for these are true morons 3) Ghouls are desecrating old guides, newspapers and even books, harvesting anything they can to make a buck and that is a shame for collectors past and present of those items.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
Here's an interesting question, if the item simply had a dashed line all around it, would people feel like it was a "card" meant to be cut out even if there were no mention of it being cut out in the newspaper? Does it need some sort of dashed line and also an indication to cut it out or is a dashed line sufficient for it to be considered a "card"? What makes something a card in this case? Perhaps it really is just whether people want to consider it a card. Just like how people consider the 1990 Topps Frank Thomas NNOF an error when it is just a print variation that on a common card would be worthless. I guarantee if this were a common player, PSA never would have considered grading it. It is the player depicted that made this an issue.
It appears they have graded these on 2 different occasions given the differences in cert numbers.
They would not holder my naked picture of Lisa from my Senior yearbook. They said it was trimmed. They even doubted the authenticity......I told them "Believe me...it's real".
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I want to see the original Sporting News, minus the paper cutout put on Ebay! Talk about maximizing profits!
<< <i>LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I want to see the original Sporting News, minus the paper cutout put on Ebay! Talk about maximizing profits! >>
Comments
<< <i>Someone please explain to me how this is different than grading a sheet cut card? At least the sheet cut card is a card. >>
One is hard card stock, the other is thin newspaper stock. That is basically the difference - the weight of the paper.
<< <i>Someone please explain to me how this is different than grading a sheet cut card? At least the sheet cut card is a card. >>
I agree they are basically the same thing. I've always thought sheet cut cards should be graded with a qualifier of SC or "SHEET CUT" on the card. I think a qualifier would be the better way to go though. To me a card that was on a sheet and cut out perfectly is a really nice looking card and should be slabbed with a qualifier. The fact it didn't suffer through the same distribution and possible damage that a regular issue card did is what make the SC designation necessary. A sheet cut card is worthy of a slab, however, it should be valued and graded lower than a regular-issue counterpart.
I think PSA should slab nearly everything they are sent with the exception of magazine cuts there were never meant to be cards. I think they should just encapsulate and not authenticate or grade Broders because it opens a whole can of worms. People could just print up cards on their printers and get them graded. Encapsulating them is fine. Grading or authenticating them is not.
Kevin
Kevin
3 of the top 6 Nolan Ryan Master Sets on the Registry have this 1966 Sporting News paper cutout registered.
<< <i>I'm betting all these came from the same source. >>
Possibly. But it appears to be 2 different subs.
These are the cert #'s for the 5 1966 Sporting News Nolan Ryan paper cutouts graded PSA 9.
21778597 (The Friday Collection on the Registry, pictured below)
21724780
21724781
21724782 (Greg Bussineau Auction, pictured in the first post of this thread)
21724783
any baseball card with this same print across the front surface would earn no better than a 5.
saucywombat@hotmail.com
<< <i>I'm betting all these came from the same source. >>
You would win that bet.
<< <i> My prediction is if PSA starting promoting the destroying of old publications, if indirectly by grading and registering the cutout pictures, there would be a widespread boycott of PSA/CU, including by many of their their current autograph, coin and comic book customers. Clearly, CU member comic book collectors won't be keen on old illustrated publications being cut up to satisfy the baseball card registry. >>
Don't stop there. I predict total anarchy with riots in the streets.
<< <i>
<< <i> My prediction is if PSA starting promoting the destroying of old publications, if indirectly by grading and registering the cutout pictures, there would be a widespread boycott of PSA/CU, including by many of their their current autograph, coin and comic book customers. Clearly, CU member comic book collectors won't be keen on old illustrated publications being cut up to satisfy the baseball card registry. >>
Don't stop there. I predict total anarchy with riots in the streets. >>
Det. Thorn: It's people. PSA green flips are made out of people. They're making our flips out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for flips. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!
Hatcher: I promise, Tiger. I promise. I'll tell the exchange.
Det. Thorn: You tell everybody. Listen to me, Hatcher. You've gotta tell them! PSA green flips are people! We've gotta stop them somehow!
There just has to be a control to this madness and I suppose there will be an eventual standard, determined by the company or it's customers. Perhaps PSA will listen to the Pros and Cons to make a sound decision. Companies prosper and fail because of their business practices.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>Don't stop there. I predict total anarchy with riots in the streets. >>
Det. Thorn: It's people. PSA green flips are made out of people. They're making our flips out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for flips. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!
Hatcher: I promise, Tiger. I promise. I'll tell the exchange.
Det. Thorn: You tell everybody. Listen to me, Hatcher. You've gotta tell them! PSA green flips are people! We've gotta stop them somehow! >>
This book thinks you better get that info to the exchange!
I'm going home - Sol
<< <i>Quite a conundrum for Mike Perez collectors
LOL! This one needs more love.
<< <i>
<< <i>Quite a conundrum for Mike Perez collectors
LOL! This one needs more love.
Or for Falcone collectors (this is my favorite baseball card of all time...so much ridiculousness going on)
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
"Unfortunately, the Research Department could not find these cards cataloged anywhere. PSA will not be able to grade these cards. I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact customer service."
Lou Gehrig Master Set
Non-Registry Collection
Game Used Cards Collection
After some thought I believe the only logic by which the un-named party was able to convince PSA of the validity of this particular photo as worthy of both a slab (agnostic) and inclusion into the master set (incredulous) is that this photo is pre-rookie card. If this is true then the list of "faces in the crowd" seem to be a potential path by which a few of us can cash in.
Also, IMO this strategy by PSA is quite shortsighted. They may make a few bucks now, but they demoralize dozens of potential collectors due to delegitimizing everyone's collection and demolishing any sense of permanent completion.
Let me give you all a small example. Recently, PSA has included two "new" variations in the 1973 topps set consisting of two cards which have a small "gap" in their black border. Obvious this is just a print defect not a true variation as one can find border issues on many cards. Shortly after, 3 individuals decided to sell-off their collection. What is the purpose of building a set if every couple of years someone can now find any variant of a card and claim a new variation?
Seems odd to me.
1926 Spalding Champions Babe Ruth
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>This appears to be another example of a paper cutout from an old Spalding guide.
1926 Spalding Champions Babe Ruth >>
That's a mechanical error.
They will grade ANYTHING.
DaveB in St.Louis
jbox
<< <i>What a joke.
They will grade ANYTHING. >>
Not true.. They won't grade the following sets I asked about even though I provided albums and/or checklist for each set that clearly dated the set.
1978 Figurita Crack Mundial
1995 DYNAMIC MARKETING
2009 Abril Gol Cards
<< <i>
<< <i>What a joke.
They will grade ANYTHING. >>
Not true.. They won't grade the following sets I asked about even though I provided albums and/or checklist for each set that clearly dated the set.
1978 Figurita Crack Mundial
1995 DYNAMIC MARKETING
2009 Abril Gol Cards >>
I doubt it makes much difference to PSA, but Figurita is not part of the manufacturer or set name on the 78s.
They will grade anything that they feel comfortable grading and, most importantly,
that money can be made grading.
I don't see how they can actually give these a numeric grade since they haven't published
anything on their website regarding a grading scale. I would think that they just give it an AUTH
instead but apparently not.
But what truly is a joke is that now we have guys destroying baseball guides for cut-outs
and putting outrageous prices on them on eBAY. If somebody wants to pay $439 for one of
these then P.T. Barnum was really understating his point.
DaveB in St.Louis
Eric
<< <i>http://www.gregbussineauauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=8659# >>
The 1966 Sporting News Nolan Ryan PSA 9 paper cutout in the Greg Bussineau auction now has 3 bids and is up to $750 ($625 plus the 20% buyer's premium).
<< <i>Multiple people doing something stupid doesn't make it less stupid. In fact, if it raises the price it makes it more stupid. >>
+1
This is a disturbing trend. I really hate to see the dumbing down of the collector community.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>My idle guess is that it was just a one time deal, that PSA may or may not regret in hindsight, and they won't do it again. If so, I'll give them a pass. >>
You can't fault PSA for doing what they can do to make a buck.
I believe that these things are true though:
1) These should never be in a registry set
2) People that pay big dollars for these are true morons
3) Ghouls are desecrating old guides, newspapers and even books,
harvesting anything they can to make a buck and that is a shame
for collectors past and present of those items.
DaveB in St.Louis
It appears they have graded these on 2 different occasions given the differences in cert numbers.
Kevin
Current listing (opening bid is $900.00 with a BIN of $1,170.00)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201008700417?orig_cvip=true
Previous listing (opening bid was $1,000.00 with a BIN of $1,300.00)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201005446310?orig_cvip=true
....but they grade a newspaper clipping. Smh.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
First why PSA would grade this .. this is from a newspaper right ?
Second why someone would pay that much
Third why someone would pay that much to flip it for a profit on eBay
And it sold for $1,170.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201012634337?orig_cvip=true
<< <i>I guess the buyer was the smart one. Nice flip.
I guess so!
<< <i>LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I want to see the original Sporting News, minus the paper cutout put on Ebay! Talk about maximizing profits! >>
Here you go.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)