The First Spouse series must be the Mint's biggest Flop

Coinsponge

I cannot believe that it is almost October and the 2013 are not even on the schedule yet. Could they do anything to perk this series up?

TwoSides2aCoin

Instead of creating a monster, they're hiding a diamond in the rough.. and this will turn out to the loyalist's advantage, I'm sure.

derryb

Not as big a flop as presidential dollars.

RYK

There is a lot of competition for that title.

OPA

<< <i>Instead of creating a monster, they're hiding a diamond in the rough.. and this will turn out to the loyalist's advantage, I'm sure. >>



I do not collect the series, but I believe you "hit the nail on the head." Low mintage bullion product, although not popular at this time, some of the artistry ain't to shabby. (beats eagles that resemble vultures) It would not surprise me, that in time, some will equal or exceed the Jackie Robinson unc. in value.

coinsarefun

<< <i>There is a lot of competition for that title. >>






I agree

tincup

I just do not see a good future for them. while I understand the concept that since they are a lower mintage (comparatively), and are being ignored, the theory is that when they suddenly catch fire in the future they will then be big bucks.

Too large of a series, too expensive to accumulate and hold in the remote chance that this will happen. The money tied up in these, which cannot be used for other purposes, will not see a worthwhile increase even if they do miraculously catch hold some point in the future. At least in my mind for how much investment would be required.

The Liberty series are a different beast; and there may a few individual issues that may spark some increase like we have seen on the lowest mintage ones to date. Otherwise, I expect them to be slightly more than bullion. A modern version of the American Arts series. (there are actually a couple of those that do have a small premium).

But hey, I am no expert. And I do not play one on TV. And I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. So there you go!

BryceM

I am incredibly comfortable with my decision to sit out on this investment opportunity.

They would have done more business making these out of foil-covered chocolate.

Kove

Bigger flops come to mind, like Susan B. Anthony, 20c double dimes...the Mint doesn't make the coinage laws, they just implement them. The Mint's main fault may be the premium above bullion for these coins.

When the series started and the coins were only ~$410, this series showed some promise. The price of gold didn't cooperate. I stopped buying at Mary Todd Lincoln.

Mark

At the very start of the First Spouse series, the mint allowed people to subscribe to the series. Each coin had a mintage limit of 40,000 combined for the MS and PR versions. The subscriptions completely exhausted the mintage limit, so the mint unilaterally canceled everyone's subscription. I recall this cancellation because I had subscribed and was annoyed that the mint cancelled it. Of course, I expect a lot of the subscribers would have dropped out as the years progressed, but nonetheless I think some of the credit or blame for this series flopping can be laid at the mint's doorstep.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>Bigger flops come to mind, like Susan B. Anthony, 20c double dimes...the Mint doesn't make the coinage laws, they just implement them. The Mint's main fault may be the premium above bullion for these coins.

When the series started and the coins were only ~$410, this series showed some promise. The price of gold didn't cooperate. I stopped buying at Mary Todd Lincoln. >>



Yup

Congress mandated these.

Justlooking

<< <i>I cannot believe that it is almost October and the 2013 are not even on the schedule yet. Could they do anything to perk this series up? >>



Maybe add a presidential mistresses series?

nycounsel

<< <i> Maybe add a presidential mistresses series? >>



Are those milk spots on the obverse of my Lewinsky coin?

Coinosaurus

Justlooking - you can admit it, that was a total setup question

Personally, I blame you more than the NY counselor

Justlooking

I'm the greatest straight man in the business.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of Marilyn Monroe ... or James Buchanan's "friend" ...

You know, I once shook Bill Clinton's hand ... I wondered later ... never mind.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Maybe it looks like a flop right now, but a few years ago these were selling out in hours.

FullStrike

Does anyone give a hoot about any Franklin Mint issues that were low mintage?

I think these First Spouse slugs will generate the same level of enthusiasm as Franklin Mint currently does.

BillJones

Maybe there will be some lemmings who will rush in to buy these things someday because of the low mintages and possible melting of unwanted coins. I could see a big pitch to non-collectors who have money to burn. But ...

There are two major problems with this series as a collectable. First, it is expensive to collect and ties up a lot of money that many collectors would prefer to spend elsewhere. Second, it covers a lot of undeserving women of no historical importance who simply married well ... or in a couple of cases, not so well.

I have a huge interest in history which is one of the reasons why I am a collector, but I have no affinity for this series. I dipped my toe in and bought the Draped Bust piece when it was issued, but the coin did nothing for me. It was just a gold round so far as I was concerned. I sold it for a modest profit, mostly because of the price of gold bullion, and moved on.

WillieBoyd2

It will be interesting to see the sales reports when the Jacqueline Kennedy coin comes out.

fishcooker

Agreed. It's kind of odd having a coin that commemorates someone who didn't do anything.

ricko

This series was a flop even before it was issued...so many people (at the announcement) just said "What?".... Totally ridiculous concept and likely a move to satisfy some fringe group. Cheers, RickO

2manycoins2fewfunds

They should have made it a modern Stella series with $4 coins and .4 ounces gold

291fifth

There is a melting pot in their future.

They are "made for collector" ultra-modern NCLT bullion junk. Their only redeeming value is their bullion content.

GritsMan

<< <i>Does anyone give a hoot about any Franklin Mint issues that were low mintage?

I think these First Spouse slugs will generate the same level of enthusiasm as Franklin Mint currently does. >>



Actually, some people do give a hoot about FM issues and to me, they are a lot more interesting. Much lower mintages, for one thing, and a lot of mystery about how many of the issues actually came into being, what the arrangements were with foreign governments, and so forth. Someone really needs to write a research-intensive book about the FM issues, because I think there are a lot of interesting stories there. That said, I do not actively collect First Spouse or FM.

ianrussell

Didn't Buffett say to buy companies when they are unpopular?

The key is that they become popular one day. I still like the Spouse series, mostly because of the low mintages and I think at some time in the future, people will want to put together sets of them.

I dislike that the Mint is cramming them into a two month period to issue 10 coins (5 proof and 5 unc). Seems like the Mint would sell more coins if they were issued every 10 weeks throughout the year...I know I would buy more if they were spread out.

- Ian

mikeyg

I just bought a few here and there,mostly the non spouse reverses.I may buy all of the 2013 unc. to see what happens.

Baley

my interest in the series began and ended with Jefferson's liberty

BillJones

The low mintages do not mean everything to me. There are some common coins that I like better than some rarities. If these things had not been issued by the U.S. Government, no one would EVER care about them. As it is the Government is starting to tread on thin ice with its coinage programs because it has issued WAY too many coins. Collectors just can't keep up with all of this stuff, mentally or financially. Look what happened to the stamp hobby in the face of all the excess stuff the Post Office has issued through the years. Much of it sells for less than face value as discount postage.

DeepCoin

One of the key problems for this series is also why most people made money on them. The price of gold was less than half what it is now when the series began. A four hundred dollar coin was a stretch at that point, then the combination of the recession and associated run up in gold prices killed the market for these coins. Coin collecting is always about disposable income for the collector and those two issues contributed vastly to the low demand for these products now.

Of course uninspired design and poor marketing do not help either. I had considered doing the sub set of Liberty, but the price kept me away as I suspect many others.

pf70collector

The low mintage ones are volatile. Though the series is coming to an end soon. I am afraid they will become forgettable like the State Quarter Series when that ended. The values of the graded ones took a nose dive when the state quarter series ended especially the PF 70 Silver Quarters, though the Business Strike MS69s might hold some promise.

Cougar1978

With their low mintages it may be a neat set to complete. Perhaps the series will gain momentum sometime in the future. I remember the book "Silver Dollar Fortune Telling." An investment book on First Spouse market sleepers anyone?

7over8

They will basically be doomed to be the "American Arts" medallions of the 2000's

Coinsponge

<< <i>They will basically be doomed to be the "American Arts" medallions of the 2000's >>




Ouch. At least they have low mintages. That has got to count for something.

dpoole

Contrarians sometimes win. Don't always, but sometimes.

I collect the series. Gold's gold, so there's a bottom floor.

Overdate

<< <i>It will be interesting to see the sales reports when the Jacqueline Kennedy coin comes out. >>


I expect that the release of coins depicting more modern and well-known first spouses will revive interest in the entire series. Low mintages such as the unc. Lucretia Garfield at 2,167 should also attract some attention.

kiyote

I actually thought the Cather US gold art medal looked really good...

kiyote

Does the mint even have to strike any this year? Can they skip a year like the 2009 silver eagles?

wondercoin

"Didn't Buffett say to buy companies when they are unpopular?
The key is that they become popular one day. I still like the Spouse series, mostly because of the low mintages and I think at some time in the future, people will want to put together sets of them.
I dislike that the Mint is cramming them into a two month period to issue 10 coins (5 proof and 5 unc). Seems like the Mint would sell more coins if they were issued every 10 weeks throughout the year...I know I would buy more if they were spread out.
- Ian"


Ian: I believe you are referring to this statement from Buffet... “Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful”― Warren Buffett


I agree with Ian that the spouse series may become popular in the years and, possibly, decades ahead. It would not surprise me at all if someday a wealthy collector or two asked their dealer(s) of choice to buy them a complete set of gold spouse either with govt packaging or in 70 grade holders (with 'First Strike too - who knows for sure). I think it would be less likely that they would want to buy a 69 grade set, but that might all depend upon the price differential at the time between the two grades. When that day comes, finding a complete set might not be all that easy (and I suspect we will be talking about a "solid six figure" transaction at that point). I recently did a "big" dealer a favor and supplied them with one of the older spouse coins in 70 grade so they could complete a set (to date). I understand they went through an exhaustive (unsuccessful) search to locate the coin before I pulled it for them out of my holdings as a favor. If, and when, a complete set trades hands down the road, it might be big news at the time with a headline such as "Complete Gold spouse collection in "Perfect" 70 PCGS grade trades hands In Private Treaty Deal For An Astounding "$$$$$$ !!" There may well be someone that reads that and decides they want a set too. And, then it all begins. The "unpopular" suddenly becomes popular. The U.S. Mint's "biggest flop" becomes one of the hottest modern collections. Anyone else feeling this "fantasy"?

As always, just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

CoinMaster1229

<< <i>The low mintage ones are volatile. Though the series is coming to an end soon. I am afraid they will become forgettable like the State Quarter Series when that ended. The values of the graded ones took a nose dive when the state quarter series ended especially the PF 70 Silver Quarters, though the Business Strike MS69s might hold some promise. >>



This series is never coming to an end. When the mint covers all the dead spouses, every 4 or five years when another spouse dies they will issue the next coin in the series.
to keep a full set you will have to keep buying. then the early low mintage ones will not be easy to find.

Bullsitter

I'll be long gone by the time the Hillary Clinton coin comes along........................thank goodness...

WingedLiberty1957

How to create a Mint Flop

1. pick an awful subject matter (who cares about the spouses of presidents ... ho hum ... yawn) Sarah Polk?, Julia Tyler?, are you kidding me?
2. create ugly and uninspired designs (save for the obverses of the liberty subset) ... these are just doggy coins
3. use a precious metal that is expensive and has a high entry barrier (just too expensive to 99.9% of collectors to want to collect the whole series)
4. for some reason these coins seem to spot easily (red spots for some reason) ... makes me want to stay away.

I think the ONLY reason these can even sell a few thousand is there are a few people trying to luck into holding the lowest mintage coin ...
trouble is with each passing year, the mintages seem to get lower and lower.

this series is nothing more than ugly bullion (just try to sell one to a coin dealer)

s4ny

As an unpopular coin, they might be very collectible in the future. (or not)

PerryHall

<< <i>As an unpopular coin, they might be very collectible in the future. (or not) >>



Yup. Many mint flops become future highly coveted collectables. The 20 cent coin is an example.

rec78

<< <i>

<< <i>As an unpopular coin, they might be very collectible in the future. (or not) >>



Yup. Many mint flops become future highly coveted collectables. The 20 cent coin is an example. >>



The 20 cent coin was actually used as a coin. The NCLT issues do not circulate or become worn. I do not collect any NCLT issues so it does not matter to me. Bullion is bullion and that is all the value that these will ever have--Kinda like the gold medals that were issued. I do not see these ever catching on. Someone has mentioned the Franklyn mint issues and this is exactly what these are like. I predict that in a few years that the first spouse series, with few exception, will trade at bullion level or just a small fraction above.

The mint has had many flops. I don't know which is the biggest. Trade Dollars, IKe dollars, SBA dollars, two cent pieces, and three cent silvers come immediately to mind. Along with a host of NCLT issues.
Bob

ElKevvo

There are some nice ones...I really like the generic ones (Liberty etc.). As far as collectible items, yes there are many scarcer ones. But the number of coins in the series combined with the price put it out of reach of most collectors. Also there are many of them that are not overly attractive...they look more like medals that coins even NCLT. I think this will also limit the number of folks interested in the series. They'll be a good type coin for many collections but that is about it IMO.

K

wondercoin

"trouble is with each passing year, the mintages get lower and lower."

Actually, it is beginning to look like possibly most, if not all, of the 2012 Mint State coins will sport HIGHER mintages than some of the 2011 Mint State coins.

Wondercoin

Icollecteverything

<< <i>Agreed. It's kind of odd having a coin that commemorates someone who didn't do anything. >>



Oooh boy, you are lucky there are not many females on here!

There is one important thing that they all did.........

shorecoll

They can't do the mistresses, the Kennedy series alone would be 500 coins.

CoinMaster1229

First Spouses for sale next month at the mint! no prices yet.

PerryHall

Anyone mention the 1943 zinc plated steel cents? They sure didn't hold up in circulation and, when new, people would mistake them for dimes because of their silver color.