Congrats Arod!
1985fan
Posts: 1,952 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
650 career homers. Mays up next at 660, and a good shot to pass the Babe at 714. Love him or hate him, you can't deny the talent!
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<< <i>He will never reach those milestones as he will not be playing after this season! >>
He'll see a 50 game suspension, nothing more, and I love it. Anything that sticks it to that clown Buddy Selig is amazing.
<< <i>Arod is the clown and he deserves to be banned from baseball with a lifetime suspension. >>
Based on what, exactly? Because you don't like him? Sorry, life doesn't work that way. MLB and the players agreed to a 50 game suspension for a first time offense, which this was. Buddy allowing his personal feelings to enter into it and attempting to impose a random number of games suspension is pathetic and ridiculous.
I would assume ARod was supposed to stop using the first time and his punishment, if any, was lessened because of his admission.
If you get caught/admit to breaking the rules the next time, you usually get prosecuted for the original offense as well.
I am betting on a 100 game suspension after his appeal is heard.
Don't really care anymore about him (or BUD what a joke ex-owner being commissioner), actually was a big ARod fan when he first came up.
Greed is not good.
1985 Topps football thread
1985 Topps Football Collectors
1985 topps football
New Entrant to 1985 Topps Football
<< <i>It appears that 1985fan is none other than our old friend, and multiple time CU banned member Axtell. Look at all the 1985 threads started by Axtell. Coincidence?
1985 Topps football thread
1985 Topps Football Collectors
1985 topps football
New Entrant to 1985 Topps Football >>
I pointed this out yesterday in the Astros #1 thread...I'm frankly surprised it took you guys this long to figure out who it was.
<< <i> Other than Canseco, no player has admitted use unless they were basically caught. >>
Caminiti, among others
He is getting suspended longer due to his conspiracy and bribery in the case, not just because of use.
In fact, MLB should stick by their guns and use that as just cause for a lifetime suspension for this clown.
Funny how a clown sticks up for another clown, lol.
It is correct that nobody likes him, because he has always been a liar and a jerk. Ever since he had that interview and said his contract wasn't about the money, he left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.
But he is still a .260 hitter 11HR guy at the core. How much a player with that .260 11HR ability should be celebrated is debatable and up to the person doing the celebrating.
<< <i>Arod has probably been a steroid user since high school, so no need to get too giddy about his 'achievements'. He still would have been a good baseball player without juicing, probably hitting .260 with 11 HR per year in MLB, which would still be quite an accomplishment for a male human being. So yes, most guys on this board would happy about hitting .260 with 11HR in MLB. >>
Obviously you don't understand how PEDs work. It didn't make him a power hitter, genetics and working out did. PEDs allow a player to recover from workout/injury/fatigue quicker. Suggesting that he would have been a .260 hitter with 11 HR is as ignorant as it is wrong.
<< <i>He is getting suspended longer due to his conspiracy and bribery in the case, not just because of use. >>
Then why wasn't Melky Cabrera suspended for longer than 50 games? He set up a fake website with fake products that contained the substances he was busted for, yet still received 50 games. Conspiracy and bribery in what? What inside information do you have that MLB doesn't?
<< <i>In fact, MLB should stick by their guns and use that as just cause for a lifetime suspension for this clown. >>
Again, based on what facts? Because YOU don't like him? Sorry, pal, but that's not how the system works.
<< <i>Funny how a clown sticks up for another clown, lol. >>
Not sticking up for anyone, simply applauding a tremendous achievement.
<< <i>It is correct that nobody likes him, because he has always been a liar and a jerk. Ever since he had that interview and said his contract wasn't about the money, he left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. >>
When he went to Texas, the Rangers actually *were* winning. That being said, how many players have come out and said they signed it for the money? You're going to say Arod was the *only* guy to do this? Your ignorance on sports business is truly staggering.
<< <i>But he is still a .260 hitter 11HR guy at the core. How much a player with that .260 11HR ability should be celebrated is debatable and up to the person doing the celebrating. >>
/shakes head
/walks away
Skin, I think Arod had enough talent as well as Bonds to have pretty good careers had they not used, but you could be right he might have been using since the 10th grade.
<< <i>People always give more negative attention to the big name players who get caught using, I seriously dont think anyone gives a crap that Melky Cabrera or Miguel Tejada used. Its the hypocrysy of life, people want Bonds and Arod to get a firing squad but dont care as much about the thousands of other users.
Skin, I think Arod had enough talent as well as Bonds to have pretty good careers had they not used, but you could be right he might have been using since the 10th grade. >>
Perk, I agree with you, but I like seeing Axtell getting all upset about it, lol. Highly probably Arod was on roids since high shool. He may not have been a .260 hitter with 11HR without roids...he may have squeezed out 17HR's
Bonds was great, even without PED's. I wouldn't lump him with Arod.
Arod conspired and bribed...MLB should stick by their guns, suspend him for life. Different than Melky. For his fans that don't like that treatment, that's what happens when you support a tool!
BTW Perk, if you run into Dempster in Boston, buy him a beer
<< <i>
<< <i>People always give more negative attention to the big name players who get caught using, I seriously dont think anyone gives a crap that Melky Cabrera or Miguel Tejada used. Its the hypocrysy of life, people want Bonds and Arod to get a firing squad but dont care as much about the thousands of other users.
Skin, I think Arod had enough talent as well as Bonds to have pretty good careers had they not used, but you could be right he might have been using since the 10th grade. >>
Perk, I agree with you, but I like seeing Axtell getting all upset about it, lol. Highly probably Arod was on roids since high shool. He may not have been a .260 hitter with 11HR without roids...he may have squeezed out 17HR's
Bonds was great, even without PED's. I wouldn't lump him with Arod.
Arod conspired and bribed...MLB should stick by their guns, suspend him for life. Different than Melky. For his fans that don't like that treatment, that's what happens when you support a tool!
BTW Perk, if you run into Dempster in Boston, buy him a beer
LOL I sure will!
<< <i>
<< <i>Obviously you don't understand how PEDs work. It didn't make him a power hitter, genetics and working out did.
<< <i> >>
I nominate this as the stupidest statement made anywhere by anyone sine the beginning of time.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i> Other than Canseco, no player has admitted use unless they were basically caught. >>
Caminiti, among others >>
Yes, but he had retired and was in recovery from drug use. My point was players don't admit to anything during their careers unless they know they are going to get caught and want to reduce the punishment. None that I know of anyway.
<< <i>
<< <i>Obviously you don't understand how PEDs work. It didn't make him a power hitter, genetics and working out did. >>
I nominate this as the stupidest statement made anywhere by anyone sine the beginning of time.
Joe >>
Safe to assume two things:
1) He does not participate in any athletic sports
2) He's never taken prescribed steroids, in which he could personally gauge any performance increase (or lack thereof).
Spewing. Diarrhea. Cha-cha-cha.
Thanks for the laughs today, fellas. Your willful ignorance makes me chuckle.
<< <i>It's comical to see how willfully ignorant people chose to be. Suggesting that PEDs alone, without good genes and working out, will make you into a hall of fame-caliber player is laughably insane. If all it took was to pop some pills or an injection to put up the types of numbers Arod has, then you'd see DOZENS of players doing it. The fact of the matter is that steroids/HGH/whatever alone doesn't take you from an average player to a superstar. Just like Bonds, Arod would have been a hall of famer without taking whatever he took. What they allowed him to do was reach all time number status.
Thanks for the laughs today, fellas. Your willful ignorance makes me chuckle. >>
Ignorance is bliss.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's comical to see how willfully ignorant people chose to be. Suggesting that PEDs alone, without good genes and working out, will make you into a hall of fame-caliber player is laughably insane. If all it took was to pop some pills or an injection to put up the types of numbers Arod has, then you'd see DOZENS of players doing it. The fact of the matter is that steroids/HGH/whatever alone doesn't take you from an average player to a superstar. Just like Bonds, Arod would have been a hall of famer without taking whatever he took. What they allowed him to do was reach all time number status.
Thanks for the laughs today, fellas. Your willful ignorance makes me chuckle. >>
Ignorance is bliss. >>
Then I'm sure you're happy as hell.
If you think that PED use alone gets you to these types of numbers, you truly are the living embodiment of blissful. If you're not blessed with the genes, and the ethic to still pursue your craft, you aren't going to put up HoF quality numbers. Anyone suggesting otherwise has NO clue what PEDs actually do for you.
<< <i>It's comical to see how willfully ignorant people chose to be. Suggesting that PEDs alone, without good genes and working out, will make you into a hall of fame-caliber player is laughably insane. If all it took was to pop some pills or an injection to put up the types of numbers Arod has, then you'd see DOZENS of players doing it. The fact of the matter is that steroids/HGH/whatever alone doesn't take you from an average player to a superstar. Just like Bonds, Arod would have been a hall of famer without taking whatever he took. What they allowed him to do was reach all time number status.
Thanks for the laughs today, fellas. Your willful ignorance makes me chuckle. >>
You just LOVE to make stuff up. No one has said just taking steroids will make a person a good or great ballplayer. Everyone else takes it for granted that ballplayers work out.
I'll try to make it simple so you can follow, but you already made up your mind, so it probably is a waste of time.
Anabolic steroids or synthetic Testosterone greatly increase muscle mass when taken in conjunction with exercise, especially weight training. This was proven when Dianabol helped bodybuilders as far back as 1959. It also "heals" or helps the muscle recover faster from a workout, so you can work out some more.
The same drug when given to the 1963 San Diego Chargers by their new Strength Coach Alvin Roy.
"For the duration of the 1963 training camp, Roy tried to make sure every player took one pill with each of his three meals. The dosage was consistent with what competitive weightlifters were taking at the time, but far short of the massive amounts some modern abusers ingest. "
"For more than 40 years, the story of the 1963 Chargers has been as follows: They endured a comically hellish training camp, romped through the American Football League regular season behind a legendary offensive line, enjoyed the glorious play of wide receiver Lance Alworth, and won the AFL championship 51-10 over the Boston Patriots."
No one has claimed that a person with no hand eye co-ordination or athletic ability would become superstars by simply using steroids. Good athletes become better and great ones like Bonds and Rodriguez become monsters. By the way both Bonds and Rodriguez were known as big time "gym rats" who worked out like mad.
Please try to educate yourself by actually reading some articles instead of living inside your own head. Must be lonely in there.
Football players of course PEDs are going to make a difference. Why you chose to bring up a completely different sport with completely different physical requirements into the conversation proves just how desperate you are to pick a fight with me.
<< <i>If PEDs is all it took to put up all time greats (which was the point being made) >>
That's your problem, axtell. When you spew so much diarrhea all over the place, you forget which toilet you were aiming for. This was one of your many spews, and I quote:
<< <i>Obviously you don't understand how PEDs work. It didn't make him a power hitter, genetics and working out did. PEDs allow a player to recover from workout/injury/fatigue quicker. >>
The people who claim that get their 'education' from Wikipedia and the only time their heart rate increases is because they're forced to walk up stairs due to the elevator being broken. It's unequivocally wrong and you have zero clue as to what you're talking about. Period.
But please, don't let that stop you. Keep talking out of your rear for the whole world to see because it's free entertainment and absolutely hysterical.
What a hysterical is your blinding disdain for someone clouding your ability to make a point. What's hysterical is your dislike for a player so distorts your view that you cannot possibly see straight.
Maybe next time you want to speak on a sports topic you'll actually do that instead of attacking the person making the point. Maybe then you'll have a shred of integrity. Until then? You're nothing but a troll contributing absolutely NOTHING to the discussion.
Speaking of, you know what's the worst rule violation? Creating new aliases after their previous one got bammed. You're on number 3 or 4, right?
When you claim the only time my heart rate accelerates is when I take the stairs, that's a personal attack. I can't count the number of times in these posts you've attacked me personally, because honestly I don't care enough about you to do so. What I do find abhorrent is your unending bile simply because you have a different opinion than I do. Suggesting that one cannot talk about PED use without having played sports or taken them is as ignorant a statement as I've ever read here - and that's saying something.
From here on out, stown, I simply won't respond to you. It's clear to me know that you are only interested in a fight, with someone you don't know over topics you don't care about. I simply don't have the desire to engage in this waste of time anymore.
<< <i>Joe, you work so hard to make up an argument out of nothing it's not even funny. If PEDs is all it took to put up all time greats (which was the point being made) then everyone would be doing it. Fact of the matter is players like Arod were blessed genetically and worked at their craft incredibly hard. Comparing FOOTBALL players to BASEBALL players is as idiotic an argument as you've ever made - and that's saying something.
Football players of course PEDs are going to make a difference. Why you chose to bring up a completely different sport with completely different physical requirements into the conversation proves just how desperate you are to pick a fight with me. >>
I am trying NOT to pick a fight, you simply are here to irritate others. Actually it does spice things up a bit.
So I was right again, you are either too stupid to understand the fundamental FACT that steroids IN ADDITION TO WEIGHT TRAINING makes all athletes STRONGER, or you as you have done in all your different aliASSes, just like to stir the pot and annoy people.
You seem to like to take a stance on a subject contrary to a post and then use a sad pathetic way of arguing in an attempt to make your "opponent" angry and frustrated. Also no matter how many times you are proven wrong, you refuse to accept facts, you simply ignore the facts, then you just take something said by the other poster, and spin the debate in a different direction. Something many children are good at. I also noticed you seldom if ever are willing to just "let it go" and move on. You sir are the best..........or the worst.
I would be amazed if at any time you EVER conceded, even partially, that anyone with a contrary view here was right and you were wrong. It must be nice to always be the smartest person in the room.
Steroids work on Baseball players, Football players and the rest when those athletes work out with weights.
The point was, baseball players don't just get bigger by simply taking steroids, they work out as well. This was proven by the example of not how it made football players better football players, but that they have strength coaches (here it is don't miss it) that have them lift weights in conjunction with taking steroids.
Here's another fact you are probably unaware of; bodybuilders (the first people to use steroids to improve their physiques) LIFT WEIGHTS and they work hard and (the best ones) are genetically gifted as well.
Do you get it YET?
Baseball players don't just take a few steroids and go out and hit 50-70 home runs, they work out, and are gifted to begin with. That's why the best of the best (Arod/Bonds) become so much better.
No one here has said (as you have repeatedly claimed they have) that baseball players that take steroids get better without also working out and having talent and ability.
Still don't understand the POINT? Please reread the above sentence, read it as many times as you need. That is the point.
Please feel free to take something out of my last post (or just make something up) that doesn't pertain to the point and spin the debate in another direction.
<< <i>He still would have been a good baseball player without juicing, probably hitting .260 with 11 HR per year in MLB >>
This is where the entire topic of PEDs affecting player use came from. I'm sorry you weren't following along but this comment is what started the entire discussion about PED use affecting performance came from.
<< <i>From here on out, stown, I simply won't respond to you. >>
DEAL!
And from here on out, axtell, I'll continue to point out your constant factually incorrect history revisions and deliberate misleading statements with the only intent to incorrectly validate a so-called 'point'.
BTW - I was informed this is now your fourth, at a minimum, alias and the other three were perma-bammed. It was unsolicited and I trust his/her insight.
<< <i>
<< <i>He still would have been a good baseball player without juicing, probably hitting .260 with 11 HR per year in MLB >>
This is where the entire topic of PEDs affecting player use came from. I'm sorry you weren't following along but this comment is what started the entire discussion about PED use affecting performance came from. >>
Where does it say he didn't work out as well as take steroids?
My point, which you continue to ignore, is that no one said Arod, or anyone else in MLB, got great results without also working out and having talent to start with.
Skins post and opinion cannot be supported unless we know when ARod started using, it's just his guess. He may be correct, we will probably never know until ARod comes out with his tell all book. My thoughts are that he started in Texas when his HR totals jumped from the low 40's to the low 50's.
The point I am making and you are ignoring is that you say that it was claimed on this thread that just taking steroids would make someone a superstar without having talent and working out. I don't see where that was ever said or implied.
<< <i>
Where does it say he didn't work out as well as take steroids? >>
The statement stands as it is: that if everything were the same, that he'd be a substandard hitter if it weren't for PEDs. The work ethic, the diet, everything would be the same, as skin didn't qualify his statement.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Where does it say he didn't work out as well as take steroids? >>
The statement stands as it is: that if everything were the same, that he'd be a substandard hitter if it weren't for PEDs. The work ethic, the diet, everything would be the same, as skin didn't qualify his statement. >>
First of all it doesn't say that, secondly everyone who follows baseball KNOWS ARod works out a LOT, that would be the same he still worked out a lot. Without the steroids, even with his natural talent and working out he's not going to be as good as he was in his prime with the help of steroids.
I am not going to say .260 with 11 HR, he might have done much better than that. I would in fact dispute the prediction that he would have been "substandard". I would say not as good as with steroids. In Arod's case he hit 150+ home runs in the three year stretch at Texas, his numbers dropped a bit and then he hit 50+ with the Yankees one year. That sure seems to match what he has admitted to, use with the Rangers and then some use while with the Yankees
Most of the record breaking players in the last decade have been good/great players who did (or are accused of doing) steroids. Bonds, McGuire, Arod, Sosa, these guys all lifted weights and did steroids and their HR totals soared. As soon as they got caught they either were ready to retire or their numbers dropped.
Edited to add Skin2 said he would have been a "good" player, you substituted "substandard" just another example of how you like to twist what others have said.
Have you read Canseco's book? Here's the story from the horses mouth. It tells how he decided that with the help of steroids he became a better ballplayer.
<< <i>
First of all it doesn't say that, secondly everyone who follows baseball KNOWS ARod works out a LOT, that would be the same he still worked out a lot. Without the steroids, even with his natural talent and working out he's not going to be as good as he was in his prime with the help of steroids. >>
But what skin said was without steroids, he goes from all time great to .260/11 HR hitter. That's what he said, and I refuted the idea that steroids alone isn't taking a hitter with those numbers to the ones Arod achieved. Why is this even being debated?
<< <i>I am not going to say .260 with 11 HR, he might have done much better than that. >>
Might have? Seriously? If .260 hitters with no power could take steroids and get to .320/50, wouldn't there be a landslide of guys doing just that?
<< <i>I would in fact dispute the prediction that he would have been "substandard". I would say not as good as with steroids. In Arod's case he hit 150+ home runs in the three year stretch at Texas, his numbers dropped a bit and then he hit 50+ with the Yankees one year. That sure seems to match what he has admitted to, use with the Rangers and then some use while with the Yankees. >>
Wouldn't the ballpark he played in be a factor as well? It's well known that Arlington is a bandbox, and the hot summers there only add to the power numbers hit there. I'm not saying he didn't take anything, but you have to factor in ballpark bias.
<< <i>Most of the record breaking players in the last decade have been good/great players who did (or are accused of doing) steroids. Bonds, McGuire, Arod, Sosa, these guys all lifted weights and did steroids and their HR totals soared. As soon as they got caught they either were ready to retire or their numbers dropped. >>
In addition they stopped playing because they got old. Each of those guys' steroid accusations and admitted use came well after their primes, so its literally impossible to compare their numbers on and off steroids.
<< <i>Have you read Canseco's book? Here's the story from the horses mouth. It tells how he decided that with the help of steroids he became a better ballplayer. >>
Yes, I've read it. What you and others are failing to admit is that steroid use alone doesn't make you an all time great, which has been my point of contention all along. Some schlub isn't going to be able to take steroids and magically, consistently hit 40+ bombs a year, which is what skin alluded to in his post. That is *all* I am refuting.
You, on the other hand insist that people are claiming he got better by taking steroids and doing nothing else. You still haven't shown an example. Skin didn't say anything about ARod working out. The way I see it he meant it , was without steroids his performance drops even if he is a "good" ballplayer and works out.
In his first three years in New York, he averaged 39 HRs then in 2007 he jumped to 54, did they bring in the fences that year? It looks suspicious and ARod ADMITTED to using in Texas AND for a time in New York. It doesn't matter what you say about his time in Texas, he admitted to it.
You have still failed to show where anyone in this thread says baseball players get dramatic improvement through the use of steroids with out a work out program, because no one said it.
<< <i>So what AROD cards do you all have that you want to sell? >>
Have to feel sorry for the fans that spent big money on his cards, at least early on.
Alex may cash in but money cannot buy you fame and one thing is absolutely certain. All of Alex's statistics will forever come with an *. It may not be indicated in the record books but the fans, which are all that matters, know and will never, ever forget.
Oh well.
<< <i>It's such a shame we'll never know the true extent of Alex's natural ability. He lied about never taking PEDs, then lied about stopping, lied to investigators, bribed people to suppress evidence, and even solicited business for the drug dealer. Dude has lost all credibility and now he can only pray to get off on a technicality. It's happened before, look at Braun, but at least Ryan is on the right path going forward.
Alex may cash in but money cannot buy you fame and one thing is absolutely certain. All of Alex's statistics will forever come with an *. It may not be indicated in the record books but the fans, which are all that matters, know and will never, ever forget.
Oh well. >>
I agree, also lets not forget about Bonds. Just a few years ago these two guys were being considered as possibly the best two baseball players of all time. At least one book I have ranks Barry as #1.
It's also sad that so many of these juicers are passing guys like my favorite, Harmon Killebrew on the all-time lists. As the new cheaters pass the real heroes of the game, I hope they realize that the money will some day be gone but their dishonesty will forever hurt the National Pastime and them selves.
the other people have clearly stated they have a different perspective and any
sensible person would know that Skip was being sarcastic.
<< <i>"As the new cheaters" ... Finally a true statement ... They all cheated in their own way >>
You nailed it. Players have been cheating for as long as they've been playing. Saying players from the years past are innocent of this is so naive.
<< <i>
BTW - I was informed this is now your fourth, at a minimum, alias and the other three were perma-bammed. It was unsolicited and I trust we know who insight.
>>
<< <i>I agree, also lets not forget about Bonds. >>
Absolutely. In hindsight, Bonds getting allegedly blacklisted from the MLB was probably the best thing to happen for him going forward. Got a slap on the wrist from the DOJ (the "I didn't know what that was" defense was genius) and disappeared out of the public spotlight.
On the other hand, you have Alex who continues to selfishly thumb his nose at MLB despite having a 150-game suspension hanging over his head. It's obvious the Yankees don't like him personally but are willing to accept him as a teammate, even though he's a narcissist. Just like a cousin that marries a complete schmuck; you don't like him and hope he goes away soon but, kin is kin and you just bite your tongue until then.