Why Do People Slab Coins With NGC?

Banemorth

I waffled back and forth about posting this thread but I am genuinely curious. I'm hoping we can have a nice discussion and not a "BECAUSE PCGS RULEZ" or "NGC SUXXX" thread. Let's try to stay friendly / civil without attacks

I understand you buy the coin and not the plastic. That's fine. But when I browse Heritage Auction Realized Prices almost always the PCGS slabbed coins go for higher. Often times I find the NGC specimen more appealing as well. So if PCGS graded coins bring a premium wouldn't it be a better investment to grade your coins with PCGS? Why would you want your coins to sell for less right off the bat?

The only reasons I can think of are that: 1. You have something against PCGS. 2. You feel NGC's grading standards aren't as high as PCGS and your coin might get a grade boost. (I am NOT saying this is the case. Just trying to think of reasons here.)

Since many people maintain a PCGS registry set and NGC coins aren't "allowed" you're also limiting your market by slabbing with NGC. (Since they accept both I believe.)

So what's the deal? Why would anyone slab their coins through NGC?

ricko

I buy coins from both groups... I like coins, and plastic is not part of the consideration. I do not sell coins, so profit is not a motive either. Cheers, RickO

Banemorth

<< <i>I buy coins from both groups... I like coins, and plastic is not part of the consideration. I do not sell coins, so profit is not a motive either. Cheers, RickO >>



Profit isn't a motive for me. I buy for myself but I can't take my coins with me to the grave. (Well I suppose I could but they wouldn't do me much good!) One day I will be selling and at that time I'd like to get the highest prices possible.

The question isn't whether you'd *buy* an NGC coin but if you were submitting a coin why you would choose NGC over PCGS.

dbcoin

NGC, to date, has a better rep with World Coins but that is changing
Maybe NGC charges less for bulk modern grading and thus the GoldMarts, HSN's, etc get better deals with NGC
NGC grades ancients, PCGS does not
otherwise, I agree with your premise.

LanceNewmanOCC

.
at the end of the day, people like choices.
.

OldEastside

Perhaps people think shorter Acronyms will result in shorter waiting periods

Steve

derryb

I collect American Gold Eagles. I do not like the way some of them tone in PCGS (or ICG) holders. I have not had any toning of AGEs in NGC holders.

Not my ebay listing, but a good example of why my AGEs go to NGC

My other reason for some modern series is that NGC is much closer and I get much quicker shipping time. This is important when flipping new mint releases. I also like the fact that there is no extra charge for the Early Releases label on qualifying coins.

I also use the services of PCGS for specific reasons. I think it is great that we have at least two reputable grading firms.

LindeDad

Asking that question over there would be a lot more appropriate.

Coin Finder

Some dealers when they quote a buy price to you based on "auction results" will use the NGC final sale number rather than the PCGS sale number which is usually higher. So, we might as well slab it with NGC since that is the price (less dealer margin) of course that will be quoted. Also, NGC can be more liberal with their grading on certain items which can result in a higher grade. This means we can get a good price for the coin selling to a dealer. The dealer will pay back of "auction results" to make their required margin which varies depending on the market for that product at that time.


NGC also has a faster turn around time. ALso if you are a member of the ANA you can submit without a club fee. PCGS Collectors Club is the best however, I have been a member since its inception and they offer quarterly free grades along with many other benefits etc... Some folks do not realize this.

Some folks do not like PCGS grading for certain series...SO they submit these coins to NGC.

People also with get a coin in a NGC holder in hopes that it will cross to a PCGS holder if it was not graded by PCGS in the first place.

Anyone else?

coinrollhunter

<< <i>I waffled back and forth about posting this thread but I am genuinely curious. I'm hoping we can have a nice discussion and not a "BECAUSE PCGS RULEZ" or "NGC SUXXX" thread. Let's try to stay friendly / civil without attacks

I understand you buy the coin and not the plastic. That's fine. But when I browse Heritage Auction Realized Prices almost always the PCGS slabbed coins go for higher. Often times I find the NGC specimen more appealing as well. So if PCGS graded coins bring a premium wouldn't it be a better investment to grade your coins with PCGS? Why would you want your coins to sell for less right off the bat?

The only reasons I can think of are that: 1. You have something against PCGS. 2. You feel NGC's grading standards aren't as high as PCGS and your coin might get a grade boost. (I am NOT saying this is the case. Just trying to think of reasons here.)

Since many people maintain a PCGS registry set and NGC coins aren't "allowed" you're also limiting your market by slabbing with NGC. (Since they accept both I believe.)

So what's the deal? Why would anyone slab their coins through NGC? >>



This is a bizarre post to me. If somebody eats turkey, do they have something against ducks/ostrich/chicken? Maybe the person believes NGC holders give the best presentation of his/her coin. Maybe they feel that getting it in an NGC slab will end up bringing them a higher price for their coin than if they sent it to PCGS (different grade/attribution/authenticity/preservation decision). Lay off the kool aid.

djdilliodon

I buy coins not plastic so when shopping ill buy a coin in any holder as long as I like it and it meets MY standards. I use NGC personally for submissions only because of the series collect. I collect franklins and I feel they are tougher with the FBL designation as they take into account both sets of lines. NGC is also cheaper for what submit so for me its a win win.

Banemorth

<< <i>Asking that question over there would be a lot more appropriate. >>



I never created an account over there and I figured this would not be a well received "first post."

Banemorth

<< <i>This is a bizarre post to me. If somebody eats turkey, do they have something against ducks/ostrich/chicken? Maybe the person believes NGC holders give the best presentation of his/her coin. Maybe they feel that getting it in an NGC slab will end up bringing them a higher price for their coin than if they sent it to PCGS (different grade/attribution/authenticity/preservation decision). Lay off the kool aid. >>



Sorry you don't like it. I was honestly looking for thoughts and opinions and have been very happy with a lot of the responses I've gotten.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>.
at the end of the day, people like choices.
. >>


I think this is the primary reason.

crypto79

NGC has a different standard than PCGS, good dealers know aprox which coins will get what and where. When the coin has been turn down repeated by pcgs or it has little technical wear but weak luster, it often makes money sense for the dealer to try NGC. A NGC 53 will often bring more than the PCGS xf45 the same coin would bring.

That isn't saying NGCs standard is inferior and there are places NGC is tougher, it's just there are places the are looser too and dealers take advantage.

I know plenty of collectors who will buy nice coins in NGC plastic, i do not know many retail dealer that will. Wholesale dealer will but only at a discount and crossover factored in unless the coin is absolutely stunning.

TwoKopeiki

<< <i>This is a bizarre post to me. If somebody eats turkey, do they have something against ducks/ostrich/chicken? >>



I think a more accurate comparison would be comparing one frozen turkey packaging company vs the other. Why buy Buterball over Empire? Same birds go into the packaging.

Banemorth

Thanks dbcoin. I knew PCGS was just getting into world coins. Great points.

I didn't even think about the bulk submission angle. Very possible. I figure that's why they use ANACS so much as well.


Lance - competition is always good. Forces both companies to keep getting better.


OldEastside - You never know haha.


derryb - I never knew that regarding coins turning on the holders. I assume all the plastics used were inert. Modern flipping makes a ton of sense too the way you put it.


thebigeng - That makes sense. Any time I've sold I use the BST or Ebay so I don't usually run into the dealer problem but I absolutely am sure they quote NGC prices frequently. I wasn't aware their turn around times were quicker. The things you learn!


djdilliodon - Thanks! Seems like the FB, FH, FBL etc. can be iffy sometimes. Have you seen that NGC is better with all of those designations?

PerryHall

<< <i>I buy coins from both groups... I like coins, and plastic is not part of the consideration. I do not sell coins, so profit is not a motive either. Cheers, RickO >>



Same here. I buy coins that are already slabbed and nice, attractive, properly graded, and desirable coins come in both grading service slabs.

Banemorth

Thanks crypto79. That's what I figured the big reason would be, whether it is accurate or not. I've learned a bunch from other posters though as well

Banemorth

<< <i>

<< <i>I buy coins from both groups... I like coins, and plastic is not part of the consideration. I do not sell coins, so profit is not a motive either. Cheers, RickO >>



Same here. I buy coins that are already slabbed and nice, attractive, properly graded, and desirable coins come in both grading service slabs. >>



Absolutely! Like I said my question is why slab them with NGC in the first place if they tend to bring less at auction than their PCGS counterparts. I just felt it was counter productive but I've been shown there's more than a couple reasons to go that route

Dennis88

While I mainly submit world coins these days 95% goes to NGC...why? Prices are the same for the majority of the coins I send in, and I get my coins back with NGC's value for $19 just as fast as I do with PCGS's $40 rates...also, I'm still not too happy with PCGS's requirement that ALL world coins pre 1965 have to go secureplus...it's just extra money and with long turnaround times it's just not worth it for me.

As for US coins, I tend to go PCGS, just because I like them more when it comes to US coins and prices do tend to be a bit higher. But there are certainly situations where a coin goes to NGC instead.

Dennis

rays

For early US coins, slabbing by NGC can be a (n indirect) way of getting a coin in a PCGS (non-genuine) holder via crossover when straight raw PCGS submission has been unsuccessful.

phnatacc

- Long standing relationships are often the case.

- Modern series are more often sent to NGC because they have, over time, built more uniform grading sets (think: ASE, AGE, Modern $1 Commems, etc...). People build them in NGC sets because they are often overpriced and or unavailable in PCGS plastic.

- Certain denominations have seen grading standards relax and become more strict within both NGC and PCGS. As an example, in my personal experience, Buffalo nickels slabbed by NGC in the range of 7-10 years ago were very strictly graded in comparison to PCGS. Today, it is my opinion that they are closer to parity. Another example would be, about a year ago NGC after being less strict for years on Morgan dollars began to grade Morgans closer to parity with PCGS standards.

I slab through both companies. A 1952 superbird would go to PCGS. A bulk order of modern commemoratives would go to NGC. A CBH might go to either company depending on originality, grade, rarity and population reports. And so it goes, on and on. Personally I'd love to see either ANACS or ICG bring back photocerts. That would tip them back to being marketable enough to give me a third option.

Banemorth

Denniss88 that makes perfect sense. PCGS's fees are way up there and it would certainly make sense to go the cheaper route on moderns.


rays I've seen a few people mention that now which I had never even realized was a thing before. The things you learn.


Fantastic reply phnatacc. I don't do anything in the way of moderns so I guess that's another reason my train of thought never went that way. It would be very cool to have a third company as a dark horse

Wabbit2313

If I am ticked at a grade PCGS gave me, I'll send it to NGC to make sure I am the one who was wrong. Sometimes I was right, sometimes not. It has happened that the NGC grade was even lower yet by the way.

3 Blind Mice, See How They Run..................

earlycoins

While some of the differences come down to fact, much is based upon perception.

If one looks at auction results on important coins, the general trend seems to be that a MS 65 P coin, might end up priced the same as an N 66.

For those desiring to have higher number in the registry lottery, N coins will, in many cases, receive a higher N grade than a P grade.

If one is selling, there have been numerous situations via which a nice N 67 is sent to P with the willingness toward ending up with a P 66 or 66+,
possibly making the coin more sale-able, especially if it gains a CAC seal of approval.

I do my best to only purchase P coins. I have a comfort level with PCGS. If I see a nice N, I have no problem purchasing it, but understand that P
coins are for whatever reason, looked upon with a bit more respect.

If one compares charts -- pick one -- Barber Proofs -- and does a direct comparison N to P, it will be found that many more 68s seem to have
been graded by N, and far fewer by P. My personal perspective, which really doesn't come into play here, is that an N 68 proof, may be
equivalent to a P 66+ or 67, and that an Ultra-cameo may correspond to a lessor cameo grade N to P.

I presume that the only way to really find out where things stand, is to send a dozen reasonably rare coins to one vendor, crack them
out, send them to another, and report the grades from each. An interesting experiment. And something that I bet dealers have learned
long ago.

BryceM

Wow. Touchy subject.

Well, why do people use PCs and Macs? In some areas, they're roughly equal, for some uses PCs are clearly superior, and in others Macs are clearly superior. People who use mostly applications that run well on Macs will assume that Macs are always better than PCs. People who use primarily applications that run better on PCs will call the Mac people crazy, uninformed, or second-class citizens.

If you go to an apple forum and start a thread titled "Why do people buy PCs?", you'll likely get a one-sided answer.

At the end of the day, PCGS and NGC are both reputable companies and they both employ world-class graders. The competition fosters innovation, consistency, and fair pricing. It is enormously healthy for both companies and the result is that the landscape of the hobby is a better place.

Remember the days when IBM propped up a failing Apple? Why would they do that?

IrishMikey

I know of several dealers that will lay out 20 to 30 raw coins from a recent deal, sort
them by grading service, and predict the grades they will receive. Sometimes they
predict what all 3 services will call a given coin, sometimes they only give the service
that gives them the highest grade.

Over the years I have found that these dealers are amazingly accurate, missing the
occasional coin, but overall hitting 90% or more. Obviously this type of accuracy is due
to lots of experience.

As long as an NGC or ANACS 65 sells for more than a PCGS 64+, then these types of
coins will continue to head to Florida or Colorado. If all 3 services will grade the coin
65, then the preference of the eventual customer comes into play.

As with many things, it is all about money.

rays

<< <i>Remember the days when IBM propped up a failing Apple? Why would they do that? >>



The PPC chips (pre-Intel) CPUs for Macs were made by AIM, a consortium of Apple, IBM and Motorola.

Banemorth

I just want to thank everyone that has posted so far. Everyone has been very fair, impartial, and civil. I've enjoyed it very much

Walkerguy21D

I had two reasons when I submitted my raw walkers to NGC some years back - one, the NGC registry allowed coins from both services (and I already had some of both), and two, at the time, you could do a direct submission to NGC if you were an ANA member. So at a FUN show, I
filled out my ANA membership, got my card and my free magnifier, then walked over to the NGC table, had a nice conversation with David Lange, and dropped off my walkers. As the Church Lady used to say - "how conveeenient!"

Banemorth

Haha Wabbit nothing wrong with sticking to your guns!!!


earlycoins that's a very well written explanation. Thank you!


I dunno BryceM I don't think I've gotten a one-sided answer! You should give the community more credit!


IrishMikey I believe it. Hard to imagine that level of experience. I don't do anywhere near enough submissions to get there (I don't buy enough raw!)

TwoSides2aCoin

As a matter of record, I can find more reasons to use the service , every day... as well I may. Some items PCGS doesn't deal with, too. Likewise, the same reasons apply to why the use of ANACS.

dbcoin

I think it is only a matter of time before PCGS starts moving into every realm that NGC does now and PCGS does not. Such as Ancients and more medals and tokens. PCGS is moving hard and fast into World Coins with 3 foreign offices now as opposed to NGC's 1. Higher profits at PCGS enable it to do this. From a long term perspective, NGC should be worried.

RYK

I am a true-blue PCGS homer, and two of the three coins that came home with me yesterday were in NGC holders. Imagine that!

I buy coins in all holders (and raw), but I keep and enjoy coins in PCGS holders. I prefer the holder design, use the registry to track and organize the collection, and wish to support CU for providing the forum and other collector-friendly resources.

DennisH

Personally, all but two of the submissions I have ever made to NGC were for GSA Morgans that I didn't want broken out. One of the others was a foreign coin that was just slightly too big to fit into a PCGS holder. The last was a coin that PCGS and I didn't agree about on the grade, even after a couple of regrade trys. But NGC agreed the first time.

AnkurJ

Many people have coins slabbed by NGC in hopes of a higher grade. This is where gradeflation exists in the hobby. Both tpgs do it, whether consciously or unconsciously.

I no longer submit to either so it makes no difference to me.

jdimmick

Here is my take:

For my personal collection its 100% PCGS. That does not mean I would not consider buying an NGC coin for my collection, and if so I would soon re-holder at PCGS.

For the business: I use NGC a lot for generic gold, silver $, and general coins, turn around times are much faster and process is quick and simple. For rarer coins, and or coins where there is a significance price difference (registry) of what holder its in, I send them to PCGS.

Elcontador

I bought a roll of RD 56 D Lincoln cents around 1979 and recently decided to get them graded and sell them. I was under the impression that most were MS 66.

The price spread between these coins in MS 66 in PC & NGC holders was minimal. But, I could get a better price and faster turnaround by sending them to NGC with the proviso to only grade those coins which they considered to be MS 66 or better. I also had an instant buyer for these coins when they came back from NGC.

31 graded. I made $6 per coin.

lcoopie

because they are a first rate coin grading company

PerryHall

Which grading service has the better grade guarantee for Mint State copper coins with the RD designation?

weresteve

<< <i>While I mainly submit world coins these days 95% goes to NGC...why? Prices are the same for the majority of the coins I send in, and I get my coins back with NGC's value for $19 just as fast as I do with PCGS's $40 rates...also, I'm still not too happy with PCGS's requirement that ALL world coins pre 1965 have to go Secure Plus...it's just extra money and with long turnaround times it's just not worth it for me. >>



Were it not for a couple of PCGS registry sets that I am currently working on, this pretty much reflects how I feel. As the submission costs have increased the quality of service at PCGS has decreased. Also, while I have not tried the new "conservation" service, I have used NCS on a few occasions and have been very pleased with the results ... in most cases removing haze, dirt and other residue left on coins from years of improper storage.

halfhunter

Maybe it's because they have the



HH

coinkat

It all depends on the coin

Manorcourtman

<< <i>NGC is faster, cheaper and more business like in my recent experience. The PCGS holders are better aesthetically, but I don't see that much difference in auction records of many of the coins I deal in; ie under $2000 o so. >>



^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^

philographer

Similar to the special oversize holder PCGS uses to encapsulate GSA Hoard silver dollars, they should create a holder that encapsulates NGC holders. Then you can have a PCGS/NGC coin--and all would be well in the numismatic world...

Banemorth

<< <i>Similar to the special oversize holder PCGS uses to encapsulate GSA Hoard silver dollars, they should create a holder that encapsulates NGC holders. Then you can have a PCGS/NGC coin--and all would be well in the numismatic world... >>



What would be better... a PCGS slab inside an NGC slab or an NGC slab inside a PCGS slab?

OldEastside

<< <i>

<< <i> >>

What would be better... a PCGS slab inside an NGC slab or an NGC slab inside a PCGS slab? >>




I can't find any auction records

Steve

hchcoin

When I used to be a member of the ANA, I used NGC because I could submit coins with an ANA submission account.

halfhunter

Not sure if this is still the case, but a few years ago anyone having an e-Bay account could submit free to NGC.

HH