Probstein, whats going on lately?

Foo3112

I've been noticing that on a lot of your listings, you've been writing "CENTERED" even when its clearly not. Some could be questionable/subjective but this one... c'mon man. lol

"Centered" - I beg to differ

japhi

I think the card is skewed in the holder. Either way, PSA deemed it fairly well centered so your beef is misdirected.

Foo3112

This one is clearly not a case of the card being skewed in the holder. No angry beef here, just wondering why he puts the word centered on a lot of his listings when its not even close.

Tabe

<< <i>I think the card is skewed in the holder. Either way, PSA deemed it fairly well centered so your beef is misdirected. >>


His beef isn't misdirected. That card is not centered. It might me the criteria for a PSA 9 but it's definitely not "centered" and it's not definitely not "skewed in the holder".

Dpeck100

He may have not written that title. I know on many of the listings he has it is someone elses card(s) and they can write the title.

Foo3112

It wouldnt make sense for someone else to write the listing. If that were the case, then sellers would be sending in their PSA 5's and writing that the cards have 4 sharp corners and perfect centering all around (which PSA 5's dont of course). I havent dealt with him but from what I have heard from the people who have, the sellers dont get the choice of writing out there listings. Again, I cant say I'm 100% accurate because I've never dealt with him but I would like him to view this auction and hear his reasoning for this - and the thing is its not just this one.

Centered

Edit: Adding another card that isnt even close but yet the title list its "Centered". His words, not mine.

itzagoner

it has become the keyword of golden returns, much like "set break" ruled 2011 & 2012.

Baez578

<< <i>I think the card is skewed in the holder. Either way, PSA deemed it fairly well centered so your beef is misdirected. >>



Misdirected?? You clearly didn't look at the second picture. Look at the back of that card and tell me that's centered

Dpeck100

Here you go


Here is an example of a listing that Rick had nothing to do with the description. Check out the corners on these cards.

Foo3112

Okay, so now its confirmed that sellers can write their own inscriptions, but does that make Rick lose credibility? Especially when he writes "Centered" for a card that doesnt even come close to being centered? I just dont see why he could even allow this?

Example: If you had some cards in that set that were bent in half (and the pictures even showed it) but yet you wrote "no creases" in your descriptions, does that mean that Rick HAS to honor that because its what you told him to write?

ToppsFan

Foo3112,

I am curious, do you currently have any listings? As you've often times acted like the eBay listing police it would be interesting to see how you do things.

John

itzagoner

oh dang. now it's on.

ChiSoxCardboard

Interesting...I agree with those that feel this is a misleading description.

I don't know who writes the descriptions, but for what it's worth, I sifted through a high end set break Rick was doing a week or two ago, and the discretion applied to the descriptions seemed fair. Essentially, it seemed like he (or the seller, maybe) included the best qualitative descriptor they could about the card. If it was well-centered, then the term was "CENTERED" but if that wasn't the best quality about the card, then a different descriptor was used.

Could be that this one slipped through the cracks...you can usually expect a PSA 9 to be centered better than that!

Brad

Doublestriker

Obviously centering can be easily seen in most picture listings. This is much to do about nothing. If the listing was claiming sharp corners then you would have something here.

bishop

This makes me wonder if all those diners I see with signs that say "Good Food" might be exaggerating a little

Foo3112

John (if that is even your real name)

First I find it hard to believe that you are NOT an alt with only 29 post and a new account that was recently created last month. Yet, you seem like you observe many of my posts. I'm not sure what I have even written in the past (before June I’m sure) that would make you even think that I am an eBay policeman in the slightest way? I am simply just writing a legit question. Not sure why that seems so hard for you to comprehend?

Foo3112

If the listing was claiming sharp corners then you would have something here.

So since the listing says centered but the card isnt even close to being centered, I have nothing here then? Hows that any different that what you just wrote?

MiniDuff

At least it doesn't sell "well" centered :-)

telephoto1

Yawn. It says "centered", not "perfectly centered". I think if this is all you have to gripe about then life must be pretty good.

grote15

I don't believe consignors can write their own listings and just add any dexcription to the title. However, the listings are written by employees of Rick (their names appear on bottom of listing) and CENTERED is used quite often by them of late to describe graded cards.

Dpeck100

Someone who uses Rick to sell their cards PM'ed me a while back and asked what I thought of the titles they were using to sell some Wrestling All Stars.


He wrote them and submitted them to Rick and that is how they were listed.

grote15

<< <i>Someone who uses Rick to sell their cards PM'ed me a while back and asked what I thought of the titles they were using to sell some Wrestling All Stars.


He wrote them and submitted them to Rick and that is how they were listed. >>



That may be correct to an extent but I've seen CENTERED added to a wide range of cards over an extended period of time, so I think that in this case, it's just something the listers are using, unless all the consignors are asking for this to be added to the title.

Obviously, there should be some scrutiny here--a card that is graded with an OC qualifier should not bear the word CENTERED in the title regradless of what the consignor requests, and I'm sure Rick would agree with that, too.

Doublestriker

<< <i>If the listing was claiming sharp corners then you would have something here.

So since the listing says centered but the card isnt even close to being centered, I have nothing here then? Hows that any different that what you just wrote? >>



Well because you can easily see if a card is centered by the picture in the listing. This is not always the case with corners. Make sense?

ClockworkAngel

Yes, he is attracting watchers and yes it is misleading. But there is also a picture there to clearly show it is not well centered. Could be it slipped through the cracks, could be he's just trying to gain interest, but the most important questions is.....when will this forum officially be changed to www.allthingsprobstein.com?

Dpeck100

<< <i>

<< <i>Someone who uses Rick to sell their cards PM'ed me a while back and asked what I thought of the titles they were using to sell some Wrestling All Stars.


He wrote them and submitted them to Rick and that is how they were listed. >>



That may be correct to an extent but I've seen CENTERED added to a wide range of cards over an extended period of time, so I think that in this case, it's just something the listers are using, unless all the consignors are asking for this to be added to the title.

Obviously, there should be some scrutiny here--a card that is graded with an OC qualifier should not bear the word CENTERED in the title regradless of what the consignor requests, and I'm sure Rick would agree with that, too. >>





I agree there should be some scrutiny. My point was that perhaps Rick didn't add the word centered to the listing. Failure to supervise would be the issue rather then him trying to over hype a card.

Personally I don't feel the centering is that bad to start a thread over. If the card was 80/20 then we would have an issue. I know nothing about the general centering on this year but for some cards that are always 90/10 this might be tremendous centering.

grote15

Failure to supervise would be the issue rather then him trying to over hype a card.

I agree with this. I know Rick doesn't actually write the auction title listings and it seems to me that CENTERED has become the word en vogue for his listers to use in hopes of maximizing the return.

bigdcards

<< <i>At least it doesn't sell "well" centered :-) >>



+1 It's centered way high, but it is centered. : )


I'm not clear on the defenses. We have an implied accusation that foo probably does it too with no reason to say that. That's not actually not a defense. Then we have a claim that since the picture counters the title it's okay to mislead in the title. Then there is the glorious idea that it's not on him when someone else writes the title for a listing under his name. I can't imagine trying to get away with that excuse if someone working for me messed up. I'd get laughed right out of a job. That excuse is way worse than this little infraction and I'd be surprised if Rick truly felt no responsibility for his auctions.

This is so simple. The card is not centered and it's not honest to put it in the title. Rick is responsible for the auctions of the company that he put his name on. If you think it's a minor thing, then "yawn" is a perfectly reasonable comment. We have guys putting mint in titles for cards that would grade 4, so it is relative. But you can't reasonably defend it as an appropriate title.

As a much needed reminder, Rick is not a god. He's okay with that from what I can tell, maybe the cult here could be too.

Foo3112

With so many different points of views on this matter (which was already expected before creating this thread), I don’t think it’s really a bad thread. If this was anyone else's listing on here such as a forum member, there would have been complete pandemonium for a change in the title, but yet because its Probstein, there will be no pitchforks pointed towards the sky tonight. I do disagree with you Dpeck and say that centering is pretty horrible on that card. The back is OC. Actually, I’ve seen cards with a front that looks better than the back of that Clemente yet PSA still labels it as off center. But again, my complaint is not with PSA because it’s their grading scale. Me personally I could never feel comfortable or own on a 9 card like that or have one even at a cheaper price in my collection.

I just would like to hear Ricks thoughts on how this process works and why this one says "centered" when it’s more like 70/30 and the back is 95/5. I think that’s reasonable.

Mapleleaf

I think that when you are listing a lot of cards (and Probstein does list a tremendous amount of cards), some key words can get carried over in the title and not be taken out when they should be.

Personally, the word "centered" means suspected sheet cut on a long run of PSA 9's but that's because I collect OPC hockey.

RonBurgundy

Before you hang Rick in effigy - wait, maybe you already have - consider the possibility that his employee edited an old listing with "CENTERED" in the listing, & didn't take it out. It could be - just maybe - an honest mistake, not some nefarious plot that is often assumed here.

olb31

<< <i>Before you hang Rick in effigy - wait, maybe you already have - consider the possibility that his employee edited an old listing with "CENTERED" in the listing, & didn't take it out. It could be - just maybe - an honest mistake, not some nefarious plot that is often assumed here. >>



Ron quit writing sensibly please, you are ruining the thread.

Bosox1976

<< <i> Ron quit writing sensibly please, you are ruining the thread. >>

CollectorAtWork

I thought I saw in some cases where small sellers are setting up "stores" within Rick's store on ebay. Not exactly sure how this works, but maybe they are getting probstein's name recognition, but manage the ebay listings themselves including writing up the descriptions. For example, look at this signature line on this listing in n54's BST: Link

Time4aGansett

When you own a company you are responsible for everything that goes on concerning it.
No company is perfect. However, the more the same incidents happen with no solution, the more integrity is questioned.
For the record I don't buy or sell with Probstein.

swartz1

wow - another thread...

japhi

The card must be pretty well centered, it's in a 9 holder

hammered

That Clemente is a good example of how lax PSA used to be relative to today.
No way that gets a 9 these days with those obvious and distracting printing flaws.

pdub1819

<< <i>The card must be pretty well centered, it's in a 9 holder >>



I agree. IF PSA deemed it a straight 9, then he is not lying in the title when he wrote CENTERED.

Just my 2 cents.

PDUB

maddux69

I personally think that this is not the forum to scrutinize Rick and his business practices, as that should be communicated with him if you see a problem. Such statements against his practices could demean his business and should remain private until he is given the opportunity to address it. Who knows who may see this thread and may decide not to bid on an item in his auctions based solely on the opinions expressed here.

Foo3112

I hear what your saying Maddux but Probstein does advertise a fair amount on these same boards so I feel its open game to ask questions. I don't see anything wrong with questioning something openly. We are simply having a discussion. Some agree, some don't but I assure this is well on topic and it would take a lot more than this tread to throw his credibility out the window. As you mentioned, its only opinions. Also, I'm pretty sure gets waaaaay more business outside of these boards from a lot of eBay members who don't even know these forums exist so I doubt this will even place a dent on his business nor am I preaching people to stop purchasing from him or anyone. If you like a card and you want to place a bid, go for it because at the end of the day, you're the one whose going to to pay for it and have it in your collection, not anyone else.

This is my point - If this listing belonged to a regular Joe on here, would you still feel the same and stand up for that seller? Why do others here feel like he Probstein is entitled to a free pass when any other another seller would get ridiculed? I'm pretty sure most would then agree that the heading is listed incorrectly. Just because it doesn't say OC doesn't mean its centered either. Heck, one person on here thought it was skewed in the holder as they put it.

bigdcards

<< <i>I personally think that this is not the forum to scrutinize Rick and his business practices, as that should be communicated with him if you see a problem. Such statements against his practices could demean his business and should remain private until he is given the opportunity to address it. Who knows who may see this thread and may decide not to bid on an item in his auctions based solely on the opinions expressed here. >>



So are all the threads that point to sellers negatively bad? If not, why are those ok an not these. 4SC, dougout sportscard, ect, get scrutinized and I've never seen you put this in those threads. (sorry if you do and I just missed it) But what's the difference with Rick.

Updated sig line....

maddux69

Foo, I understand what you are saying, the use of being centered is an issue. I am not standing up for Rick by any means, just for what I feel is right. Someone should be able to defend themselves or get the opportunity to rectify the problem before people start piling on. There have been numerous times where he has been bashed unknowingly and the forum has only heard one side. Do a search for Probstein and I am sure you will not be surprised by the results. I recall a situation where Rick was bashed on here and as soon as he got wind of the situation, he fixed it right away. So why not bring it to his attention and let him fix it without all the negative attention?

maddux69

For the record, I have yet to consign with Rick. When I have consigned items, it has been with PWCC.

CDsNuts

Wes Walker

grote15

<< <i>Wes Walker >>



I remember Wesley Walker--one of the better wideouts in Jets' history..

psychump

<< <i>Wes Walker >>



Thank you for posting this. I have stopped my bidding on this card because it could almost just about maybe probably was not gem mint.

psychump

<< <i>With so many different points of views on this matter (which was already expected before creating this thread), I don’t think it’s really a bad thread. If this was anyone else's listing on here such as a forum member, there would have been complete pandemonium for a change in the title, but yet because its Probstein, there will be no pitchforks pointed towards the sky tonight. I do disagree with you Dpeck and say that centering is pretty horrible on that card. The back is OC. Actually, I’ve seen cards with a front that looks better than the back of that Clemente yet PSA still labels it as off center. But again, my complaint is not with PSA because it’s their grading scale. Me personally I could never feel comfortable or own on a 9 card like that or have one even at a cheaper price in my collection.

I just would like to hear Ricks thoughts on how this process works and why this one says "centered" when it’s more like 70/30 and the back is 95/5. I think that’s reasonable. >>



"Centering is pretty horrible"- Wrong. Overwrought response.
"My complaint is not with PSA because..." - Wrong. If PSA had graded it an 8 or so there would be no thread.

Foo3112

"Centering is pretty horrible"- Wrong. Overwrought response.
"My complaint is not with PSA because..." - Wrong. If PSA had graded it an 8 or so there would be no thread.

I really think you have no idea what this thread is even about.

Its about a card that is listed as centered which is being used as its main selling point when its not really centered the way the listing is intended to be used as. If this card was graded a 7 or 6 and the listing also said centered but the card really was at about a 70/30 then I would point it out and create a thread if I were in the mood to do so. The grade has no play into this. The reason why this one in particular caught my eye even more so was because of the back. It seems like there's more of a copy and paste type of habit that they are falling into.

elsnorto

<< <i>Updated sig line....
-------------------------
Rick Probstein is not a god.
>>



Thou shalt not worship false consigners.

Snorto~

elsnorto

Don't let the Rick fan boys get to you, Foo.

For some reason he is a polarizing figure... some will defend him no matter what, while others will attack him every chance they get.

Your point is spot on. Centering is subjective, but when I see "centered" in a listing, I expect to see a (near) perfectly centered card. As some would tell it, as long as a card didn't come back with an OC or MC designation, you could call the card centered.

But, yeah, I suspect this was an oversight by one of Rick's minions while cutting and pasting a previous listing to modify for the next, and they simply forgot to remove "centered" from the title. You'll notice someone's name near the bottom of every Probstein listing to identify the minion responsible. Rick ,typically at least, isn't the one listing cards.

But someone nailed it earlier, that Rick is ultimately responsible for listings under his account. I'm sure if you e-mailed them, they would correct the title to remove "centered".

That said, no one should be too surprised with listing inaccuracies given the number of listings they do and the fact they spend more time and space hawking their services than they do the item itself.

Snorto~

thehallmark

The card is centered. To some, it is well centered. To some, not so well centered. Surely if Ebay decides they want to create rules around the use of the word "centered" in auction titles, they are free to do so. Until then, there is no arbiter to pass law on the parameters of the word "centered" so the utter chaos in Ebay auction titles will continue.

There are a hundred different ways to react to an auction that uses a word in the title one feels is misleading. Some people just disregard the title and opt to look at the picture to gain more information before deciding whether or not to evaluate the centering of a card. Some people get annoyed for a fraction of an instant, and then move along and never think about it again. Some people decide the seller uses misleading words and no longer participate in that seller's auctions. As is your pattern, Foo, you don't ever rise above it or opt out. You choose to complain about a seller in a public forum hoping to rally others to your cause to justify the time you spend thinking about how unjustly you've been treated. You've even gotten better at using folksy words and "lol"s in order to try and make your protesting seem less negative. This reaction of yours speaks volumes about you but I'm not sure the forum is gaining much new insight into Rick here.