Thanks for posting this. I wonder if the numismatic press will cover this sad state of affairs in detail and what effect this will have on membership renewals. With great sadness, after 33 years as an ANA member, I won't be renewing my membership. I'll especially miss their magazine but I can't bring myself to continue to support such a dysfunctional and corrupt organization. >>
The link for the suit filing came from the Coin World web site, so I'm sure they will cover the proceedings. I'm as shocked by this as the rest of you, but I urge everyone not to give up on the ANA. It's the single largest force in our wonderful hobby and does a lot of good (in spite of its apparent dysfunction)--including putting on the best and largest coin show of the year. The benefits of membership are unparalleled in numismatics today.
<< <i>Corrupt organization with members lining their own pockets. Should be entirely dissolved and assets turned over to the Smithsonian. Cheers, RickO >>
Agree but it's not the members but rather it's the elected officers and their employees.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
All joking aside; Best of luck to Mr. Shepard. His willingness to track down the stolen coins is admirable, and his wrongful termination is simply criminal.
Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
Cover-ups are almost always worse than the original crime. From what I read, there's no way anyone knows how much was stolen in the thefts. I have visions of rare coins dumped in boxes and no one knows what they have.
It should be fairly easy to document some of the allegations, and if they are true those people should at least be suspended pending the investigation.
I would vote to ask the FBI to do it, two of the people are sort of charged with trying to interfere with their original investigation. It's one thing to write nastygrams, it's another to lie face-to-face to an FBI agent.
After this is sorted out, I would still fire everyone there and start over, it's the only way you know you got the bad guys. At least background check and polygraph everyone.
<< <i>If I was the new guy in charge, I'd fire everyone, audit and catalogue all the coins, and start over. >>
I agree with cataloguing all of the coins, and figuring out what coins might be missing.
But if you would fire everyone, who would do any of the work while you "start over"? And how would anyone know what work needed to be done, and how to do it?
Seems to me that firing everyone, when the majority of the people there probably are not involved in the problems raised, is not a wise thing to do.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Thanks for posting this. I wonder if the numismatic press will cover this sad state of affairs in detail and what effect this will have on membership renewals. With great sadness, after 33 years as an ANA member, I won't be renewing my membership. I'll especially miss their magazine but I can't bring myself to continue to support such a dysfunctional and corrupt organization. >>
I made the same decision last month...even without the info of the allegations in the OP's link, I did not like how I saw things being done. I will miss the magazine as well, but I couldn't support the org, in all good conscience. I still do like Walter and think he will be good for the org, but how good with such a large existing problem remains to be seen.
<< <i>The conduct alleged is egregious; however, I was not impressed by the quality of the complaint and am not particularly confident that it will survive in federal court in Chicago. I could see this case getting dismissed immediately or getting transferred to federal court in Colorado and then dismissed or thrown into Colorado state court if the RICO claim fails. >>
Bayard, why would they choose the Chicago federal court over one with jurisdiction over Colorado anyway? And what may likely be the result of a change in venue?
And what might a change from federal to state court mean as to the outcome?
<< <i>A negitive post about Nadia looks like it came from a man, but don't rule out that it maybe a female trying to discredit an other female for personal gain.
In FACT an email was sent out to everyone on Nadia's outlook email account, which points to someone at the ANA.
Unless one has FIRST hand account knowledge post like that one should be taken with a grain of salt.
In any case Nadia, I would stand by her at any time.
There are some not so nice people at the ANA that got away with dirt and now it is comming to the surface. >>
I read that stuff too, and first thing that came to my mind last night as I read it was "woman writing it" and "same person(s) writing multiple posts". The timing of the posts seems especially suspect. If she had the funds, she should hire a lawyer, subpoena the site to get the IPs and see if they trace to a certain known IP/range/business/person. Likely, they would.
I am really sad that it seems that many people who do wrong are able to hide behind corporations and companies....that people who knowingly do wrong to others are not held personally responsible when they are in a high level position. If they were, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to do wrong.
Not to get in the way of the official ANA "fire 'em all" party, but you guys do realize that this legal filing comes from a fired employee trying to earn a significant payoff, right? Could it be that 'some' of the claims are not accurate? As for the RICO part, I was unaware that private individuals could do this. Isn't RICO under the purveyance of a district attorney?
My read on all the claims and charges is a bit different than most of the previous posters. I can't help but be EXTREMELY skeptical of virtually everything in the legal filing. Of course, I still believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so that may be shading my reaction.
<< <i>Totally disagree. If the Smithsonian were in charge of the assets, we would probably never see any of these great coins again.
Do you mean to buy them on the Black Market? >>
No, I mean that the Smithsonian is likely to keep these treasures out of view in a dingy storeroom rather than display them so that the public can see them.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
They certainly need to find out what has been going on at the ANA. At the least, the organization has been very incompetent, at the worst, it is filled with corruption and organized theft.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
<< <i>Bayard, why would they choose the Chicago federal court over one with jurisdiction over Colorado anyway? And what may likely be the result of a change in venue?
And what might a change from federal to state court mean as to the outcome? >>
In addition to the alleged nexus, Chicago may have been chosen for Mr. Shepard's convenience. The federal courthouse is within walking distance of Harlan J. Berk, which I believe is his employer.
Change of venue likely means less expense for the defendants and more expense for the plaintiff. If the case is dismissed and must be refiled in Colorado state court, the statute of limitations may become a factor, i.e., plaintiff might lose on a technicality and not get a decision on the merits. I don't know the Colorado statutes of limitations.
P.S. None of my posts are legal advice and do not establish an attorney client relationship. I have no inside knowledge regarding this case. I realize that this board is probably intelligent enough to understand that without me mentioning it.
<< <i>Not to get in the way of the official ANA "fire 'em all" party, but you guys do realize that this legal filing comes from a fired employee trying to earn a significant payoff, right? Could it be that 'some' of the claims are not accurate? As for the RICO part, I was unaware that private individuals could do this. Isn't RICO under the purveyance of a district attorney?
My read on all the claims and charges is a bit different than most of the previous posters. I can't help but be EXTREMELY skeptical of virtually everything in the legal filing. Of course, I still believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so that may be shading my reaction. >>
When one files a lawsuit like that, if the claims/assertions turn out to be false isn't one setting themself/themselves up for a libel suit?
<< <i>Bayard, why would they choose the Chicago federal court over one with jurisdiction over Colorado anyway? And what may likely be the result of a change in venue?
And what might a change from federal to state court mean as to the outcome? >>
In addition to the alleged nexus, Chicago may have been chosen for Mr. Shepard's convenience. The federal courthouse is within walking distance of Harlan J. Berk, which I believe is his employer.
Change of venue likely means less expense for the defendants and more expense for the plaintiff. If the case is dismissed and must be refiled in Colorado state court, the statute of limitations may become a factor, i.e., plaintiff might lose on a technicality and not get a decision on the merits. I don't know the Colorado statutes of limitations.
P.S. None of my posts are legal advice and do not establish an attorney client relationship. I have no inside knowledge regarding this case. I realize that this board is probably intelligent enough to understand that without me mentioning it. >>
He left Harlan Berk and has been setting up under Simco for the past several shows.
You could fire everyone and bring in one of the specialty accounting/consulting firms to run it while it is re-staffed. You could let people stay and require that they pass a polygraph on knowledge of the thefts (at least). If in CO you can't require it of an existing employee...then fire everyone and offer their jobs back contingent on passing a polygraph. Yes I know they aren't 100% accurate, but at least it's something and would be a step towards cleaning this mess up. I really hope Laura wins her seat and someone asks her to cover up misdeeds....that will be worth the price of membership alone.
I think the source of the problem is in moving power from the ED to the board after Cipoletti was fired. Larry and Jeff both tried to do things and were slapped back by a power-hungry Board.
Larry wanted to restore museum losses and Jeff wanted to build the web site.
<< <i>The ANA needs to move its headquarters to Illinois. It would no longer appear dysfunctional in relation to the politicians running this state (sigh). >>
<< <i>I think the source of the problem is in moving power from the ED to the board after Cipoletti was fired. Larry and Jeff both tried to do things and were slapped back by a power-hungry Board.
Larry wanted to restore museum losses and Jeff wanted to build the web site. >>
I get a sense of a power hungry board too. A very inept one at that much less the allegations made in the lawsuit.
On the other hand I find it a little hard to believe there was a conspiracy of 5 employed/director persons associated with the ANA targeted against one person ( Larry Shepard).
That seems an uphill battle for Larry to prove.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Not to get in the way of the official ANA "fire 'em all" party, but you guys do realize that this legal filing comes from a fired employee trying to earn a significant payoff, right? Could it be that 'some' of the claims are not accurate? As for the RICO part, I was unaware that private individuals could do this. Isn't RICO under the purveyance of a district attorney?
My read on all the claims and charges is a bit different than most of the previous posters. I can't help but be EXTREMELY skeptical of virtually everything in the legal filing. Of course, I still believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so that may be shading my reaction. >>
When one files a lawsuit like that, if the claims/assertions turn out to be false isn't one setting themself/themselves up for a libel suit? >>
I was in a rinki dink lawsuit and the other side said some pretty nasty unture stuff, i wanted the judge to admonish the attorney that filed it. No dice. You have quite a bit of freedom when you make filings i suppose.
There are 2 sides to every story and even if 50 percent is untrue overall it does not look good. Looking at what has happened the last 6 or so years there is problems galore at the ANA. This is not a isolated case of 1 fired employee.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>I think the source of the problem is in moving power from the ED to the board after Cipoletti was fired. Larry and Jeff both tried to do things and were slapped back by a power-hungry Board.
Larry wanted to restore museum losses and Jeff wanted to build the web site. >>
I think you got half of it right.
The other half is that both men had person(s) under them that also wanted the job, and had expressed an interest in it in the past.
Controlling board over you, employees who want your job under you. Not a recipe for success.
Both firings happened under Tom "The Terminator" Hollinbeck. Larry, 2 hours after becoming President and Jeff 6 Months before leaving office. I like Tom but find it telling in some way. Was this his intended leadership style?
Larry Shepherd's lawsuit can only be read as one version of the events surrounding his termination pending a full hearing of all sides in a courtroom. There are a few elements of his lawsuit, however, that read too much like elements of Jeff Shevlin's termination and that should give all ANA members pause. The ANA has too long a history of doing good for collectors and collecting (as well as a long history of craziness, in fighting, rigged elections, etc) for the organization to be dismissed without a fight. The first act of the new board should be to launch an independent investigation into the management of the ANA including staffing issues, board activities, board-staff interactions, non-elected board members and their interactions with staff and board and management issues, etc. Scott Barman has proposed that the review should mandate a public document reporting to the ANA membership with a confidential document dealing with specific personnel issues if needed. Lawyers report to the board and serve at the direction of the board. Their advice is needed and should be heeded, but a board majority sets the direction for the board, not the attorney.
Unfortunately, these issues were given renewed life after Jeff was terminated and that was after board candidates had declared and filed their position statements. Fortunately, Jeff's termination happened before the New Orleans candidate forum and several of us (I am a board candidate) had the opportunity to state our positions and commit to reviewing ANA operations if we are elected and have the necessary five votes. There is a risk with Shepherd's lawsuit, but if that is the case, the risk is there because of actions already taken by staff and board members. If there are problems and we choose to remain silent, then the ANA will not be in a position to restore its reputation and position in the collecting community. If any of the allegations are true, then the board must make changes in the management and staffing at headquarters. But, that can only be done with a public explanation based on an independent evaluation of organization management and concrete recommendations to correct problems that might be exposed.
Yes, we need a thorough review of the museum collection (and library, also a significant resource) and we need to solicit the opinions of members and non-members alike, but these will do little good if the basic management structure is dysfunctional. It will take some time, but it needs to start August 17.
Anything less than an open review of the issues raised by the repeated turnover in Executive Directors can only result in the continued slow decline in the organization's membership and prestige.
I think this is a well-pleaded complaint. And I think it will survive to trial if not settled. I also think, from a review of her resume, that the plaintiff's lawyer is highly competent, but I would expect nothing less from Mr. Shepherd.
However, that doesn't mean that all of the claims will survive to trial. I do agree with Bayard that the RICO claim may be dismissed and the case may end up in Colorado state court. Federal courts don't really like to hear primarily state court actions that have a federal jurisdiction "hook." It is also interesting to me that the complaint alleges that most of the wrongful actions took place in Illinois. I didn't know that and, if true, it could provide plaintiff with a tactical advantage of an Illinois venue. However, it does "feel" like it belongs in a Colorado state court. But this will play out in time.
The one part of this dispute that has always perplexed me is the allegation of improper conduct by Mr. Shepard with another employee. Having handled plaintiff's employment cases for 15 years or so now, I have never encountered a case where an employer acted so swiftly and decisively against a senior manager for alleged improper conduct with a subordinate. In every instance I am aware of, the employer protected the senior manager, and sought to protect the company from exposure to action by the less senior employee. There are so many alternatives available to a company other than firing its senior management, that I was astounded when I heard about it. In this case, that leads me to suspect that the alleged wrongdoing by Mr. Shepherd in this regard is either not true, or, if true, had little to do with the firing. Either that or you have some pretty up-tight people in Colorado Springs. I have no personal knowledge of any of this but that part of the case makes no sense to me.
So, putting the alleged improper relationship stuff aside, you have comments about bid-rigging and a story of theft and mismanagement of a very valuable museum collection. Bid-rigging is very hard to prove and we already know the ANA mismanaged its museum collection which resulted in hundreds of thousand of dollars in losses. Juicy stuff! So unless Mr. Sirna and the ANA have Mr. Shepherd on bid-rigging, I like Mr. Shepherd's case, which is all the more reason that the ANA should have moved more carefully in deciding to fire him. And now the ANA is embroiled in yet another lawsuit, it will be "forced" by these allegations to do a full-scale investigation of its museum thefts, if it hasn't already, and it has lost the trust of many of its members. I am a life-member of the ANA and do not plan on quitting, but it does make you wonder what they were thinking.
The above are just my thoughts on the allegations, with no actual knowledge of the facts. So, if I offended anyone I apologize.
Obviously, there is very little I can say about pending ANA litigation, but two facts I will clear up:
1) The suit was moved from Cook County Circuit Court to the United States District Court for Northern District of Illinois at the request of the ANA's lawyers. The two reasons I have been given for doing so is that Federal courts require a higher level of legal expertise than State courts and that they are more likely to dismiss cases, before trial, on motions for summary judgement.
2) The suit was filed in Illinois, not Colorado, because that is where Larry chose to file it. The complaint states it was done because some of the actions took place in Cook County (Rosemont).
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>... it has lost the trust of many of its members..... >>
Other than the uproar on this Forum. much of which is from non-members of the ANA, and not necessarily, despite the Forum-centric world-view, because we are meta-symbolic of the entire sense of American numismatics, what is your definition of many? Are ANA membership renewals down? If so, any correlation established? Until demonstrated otherwise I'll consider this statement rhetorical rather than factual.
While some of the level of discourse is informed and rational, much of it can be characterized as ill-informed gossip and personal peevishness. In the Shevlin case (which not-so-coincidently co-serves as the nexus of this controversy) some Forum members here have, despite the quotation of relevant ANA By-Laws specifically forbidding this, continued to insist they are entitled to know who and what votes were cast in the Shevlin case.
The "power-hungry" ANA Board has a clearly-defined responsibility to RULE. They set the priorities for the Executive Director and judge the degree to which he might satisfy their directives.
And I still know nothing. Just like the rest of you. Virtually the rest is
Obviously, I consider any response to this post to be, as is this post itself, as is this and others threads about ANA Executive Directors, more
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I deny any allegations of wrongdoing by me written within this suit. They are false and defamatory. Though I am not surprised as it was the reason I quit (though I did, in fact, come back to the ANA several times as requested). Shepherd went as far as to claim that I had produced false evidence (in Yeager's own handwriting!) in the weeks before I left. Shepherd and Sirna had the entire Museum staff wanting to leave when I left.
Mr. Shepherds claim that the ANA's struggling financial position and the museum thefts had anything to do with each other are completely false. The collection is not, and has never been, considered an asset. If it was the ANA would no longer be considered a non-profit.
The ANA quickly applied for, and received, an insurance payment for the coins stolen by Mr. Yeager (well before it was publicly known). They used those funds to pay for a new security system (instead of setting them aside as a fund to replace the missing coins).
His claim that he was responsible for locating many of the missing objects (at least before I left) is laughable. The museum staff, which he barely ever met with, did 99.9% of the work. Also the claim that he deserves accolades pertaining to the investigation is complete rubbish.
In fact I am the one that discovered the thefts and discovered that Yeager was the perpetrator. None of this mess would have happened had I not wanted to see the museums 1792 Half Disme and then Doug Mudd and I discovered that it was no longer in the building.
There is much more "dirt" yet to be realized and it looks like it will all come out.
I would LOVE to go through this with all of you as, I am sure, it would be quite entertaining.
However... it looks like I need to contact a lawyer! And yes, I am pissed off.
Because to Err is Human. I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading. Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
<< <i>I deny any allegations of wrongdoing by me (Robin Sisler) written within this suit. They are false and defamatory. Though I am not surprised as it was the reason I quit (though I did, in fact, come back to the ANA several times as requested). Shepherd went as far as to claim that I had produced false evidence (in Yeager's own handwriting!) in the weeks before I left. Shepherd and Sirna had the entire Museum staff wanting to leave when I left.
Mr. Shepherds claim that the ANA's struggling financial position and the museum thefts had anything to do with each other are completely false. The collection is not, and has never been, considered an asset. If it was the ANA would no longer be considered a non-profit.
The ANA quickly applied for, and received, an insurance payment for the coins stolen by Mr. Yeager (well before it was publicly known). They used those funds to pay for a new security system (instead of setting them aside as a fund to replace the missing coins).
His claim that he was responsible for locating many of the missing objects (at least before I left) is laughable. The museum staff, which he barely ever met with, did 99.9% of the work. Also the claim that he deserves accolades pertaining to the investigation is complete rubbish.
In fact I am the one that discovered the thefts and discovered that Yeager was the perpetrator. None of this mess would have happened had I not wanted to see the museums 1792 Half Disme and then Doug Mudd and I discovered that it was no longer in the building.
There is much more "dirt" yet to be realized and it looks like it will all come out.
I would LOVE to go through this with all of you as, I am sure, it would be quite entertaining.
However... it looks like I need to contact a lawyer! And yes, I am pissed off. >>
Thanks for sharing details. It's important to get both sides of the story.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
deny any allegations of wrongdoing by me (Robin Sisler) written within this suit. They are false and defamatory. Though I am not surprised as it was the reason I quit...
As I said before, if I was the new guy in charge, I'd fire EVERYONE and start over. Get someone from one of the big 4 firms to audit the entire collection and run operations.
He said, she said. As far as I am concerned, I would never do any business with any of you in the future.
If I was you, I get a really good lawyer, take out all the equity in my house if need be, get my affairs in order, and prepare to be away for 10-20. It's going to get ugly. You might want to subpoena emails from the ANA if you think they would back up your case before they disappear like the donated coins did.
<< <i>Not to get in the way of the official ANA "fire 'em all" party, but you guys do realize that this legal filing comes from a fired employee trying to earn a significant payoff, right? Could it be that 'some' of the claims are not accurate? As for the RICO part, I was unaware that private individuals could do this. Isn't RICO under the purveyance of a district attorney?
My read on all the claims and charges is a bit different than most of the previous posters. I can't help but be EXTREMELY skeptical of virtually everything in the legal filing. Of course, I still believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so that may be shading my reaction. >>
When one files a lawsuit like that, if the claims/assertions turn out to be false isn't one setting themself/themselves up for a libel suit? >>
I was in a rinki dink lawsuit and the other side said some pretty nasty unture stuff, i wanted the judge to admonish the attorney that filed it. No dice. You have quite a bit of freedom when you make filings i suppose.
There are 2 sides to every story and even if 50 percent is untrue overall it does not look good. Looking at what has happened the last 6 or so years there is problems galore at the ANA. This is not a isolated case of 1 fired employee. >>
Well i have always said there are at least 3 sides to any story,perception is my side your side and the truth generally lies somewhere in between.Just my thoughts on the matter,lots of grey area!
Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!
Private citizens can file a suit based on RICO. Here's a link to a story on one we filed years ago against the Detroit Police Department, it's a good read, we won both criminal trials (they set him up twice):
<< <i>As I said before, if I was the new guy in charge, I'd fire EVERYONE and start over. Get someone from one of the big 4 firms to audit the entire collection and run operations. >>
As if the ANA didn't have a rough enough time fund raising, who would want to contribute a dime with all this money is going to "outside consultants" and so little going toward the mission?
Larry Shepherd's tenure as Executive Director was plagued by inappropriate activities secretly conducted by board members and disgruntled staff. The same types of inappropriate behavior, secretive discussions and non-based allegations continued to occur during my tenure as Executive Director as well as they did during the tenures of numerous Executive Directors that preceded Larry Shepherd.
Larry Shepherd's tenure as Executive Director was plagued by inappropriate activities secretly conducted by board members and disgruntled staff. The same types of inappropriate behavior, secretive discussions and non-based allegations continued to occur during my tenure as Executive Director as well as they did during the tenures of numerous Executive Directors that preceded Larry Shepherd. >>
It's sad that such a once great organization has sunk so low.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Larry Shepherd's tenure as Executive Director was plagued by inappropriate activities secretly conducted by board members and disgruntled staff. The same types of inappropriate behavior, secretive discussions and non-based allegations continued to occur during my tenure as Executive Director as well as they did during the tenures of numerous Executive Directors that preceded Larry Shepherd. >>
Go Laura. Sounds like they deserve what they gonna get....
The entire body of the ANA needs to be dismantled. Hiring another new Exec Dir. is not the solution to the problems that exist . Yes, there are some very good folks on the board, but they are few and are out numbered by those who are nothing short of simply a self-serving body. It's evident to me that those few good members cannot or will not clean their house, so we must help them by not renewing a membership until the whole house is cleaned and build upon a new foundation.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow ...
At least one recent poster here on this forum is branded a thief,
and the rug is pulled back to expose all the alleged dirt:
Larry Shepherd lawsuit against the ANA, revised filing text >>
Thanks for posting this. I wonder if the numismatic press will cover this sad state of affairs in detail and what effect this will have on membership renewals. With great sadness, after 33 years as an ANA member, I won't be renewing my membership. I'll especially miss their magazine but I can't bring myself to continue to support such a dysfunctional and corrupt organization.
The link for the suit filing came from the Coin World web site, so I'm sure they will cover the proceedings. I'm as shocked by this as the rest of you, but I urge everyone not to give up on the ANA. It's the single largest force in our wonderful hobby and does a lot of good (in spite of its apparent dysfunction)--including putting on the best and largest coin show of the year. The benefits of membership are unparalleled in numismatics today.
I will stay an A.N.A. member.
Brian
<< <i>Corrupt organization with members lining their own pockets. Should be entirely dissolved and assets turned over to the Smithsonian. Cheers, RickO >>
Agree but it's not the members but rather it's the elected officers and their employees.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
All joking aside; Best of luck to Mr. Shepard. His willingness to track down the stolen coins is admirable, and his wrongful termination is simply criminal.
<< <i>Should be entirely dissolved and assets turned over to the Smithsonian. >>
Totally disagree. If the Smithsonian were in charge of the assets, we would probably never see any of these great coins again.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
It should be fairly easy to document some of the allegations, and if they are true those people should at least be suspended pending the investigation.
I would vote to ask the FBI to do it, two of the people are sort of charged with trying to interfere with their original investigation. It's one thing to write nastygrams, it's another to lie face-to-face to an FBI agent.
After this is sorted out, I would still fire everyone there and start over, it's the only way you know you got the bad guys. At least background check and polygraph everyone.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
<< <i>If I was the new guy in charge, I'd fire everyone, audit and catalogue all the coins, and start over. >>
I agree with cataloguing all of the coins, and figuring out what coins might be missing.
But if you would fire everyone, who would do any of the work while you "start over"? And how would anyone know what work needed to be done, and how to do it?
Seems to me that firing everyone, when the majority of the people there probably are not involved in the problems raised, is not a wise thing to do.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Do you mean to buy them on the Black Market?
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow ...
At least one recent poster here on this forum is branded a thief,
and the rug is pulled back to expose all the alleged dirt:
Larry Shepherd lawsuit against the ANA, revised filing text >>
Thanks for posting this. I wonder if the numismatic press will cover this sad state of affairs in detail and what effect this will have on membership renewals. With great sadness, after 33 years as an ANA member, I won't be renewing my membership. I'll especially miss their magazine but I can't bring myself to continue to support such a dysfunctional and corrupt organization.
I made the same decision last month...even without the info of the allegations in the OP's link, I did not like how I saw things being done.
I will miss the magazine as well, but I couldn't support the org, in all good conscience. I still do like Walter and think he will be good for the org, but how good with such a large existing problem remains to be seen.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>The conduct alleged is egregious; however, I was not impressed by the quality of the complaint and am not particularly confident that it will survive in federal court in Chicago. I could see this case getting dismissed immediately or getting transferred to federal court in Colorado and then dismissed or thrown into Colorado state court if the RICO claim fails. >>
Bayard, why would they choose the Chicago federal court over one with jurisdiction over Colorado anyway? And what may likely be the result of a change in venue?
And what might a change from federal to state court mean as to the outcome?
<< <i>A negitive post about Nadia looks like it came from a man, but don't rule out that it maybe a female trying to discredit an other female for personal gain.
In FACT an email was sent out to everyone on Nadia's outlook email account, which points to someone at the ANA.
Unless one has FIRST hand account knowledge post like that one should be taken with a grain of salt.
In any case Nadia, I would stand by her at any time.
There are some not so nice people at the ANA that got away with dirt and now it is comming to the surface. >>
I read that stuff too, and first thing that came to my mind last night as I read it was "woman writing it" and "same person(s) writing multiple posts". The timing of the posts seems especially suspect.
If she had the funds, she should hire a lawyer, subpoena the site to get the IPs and see if they trace to a certain known IP/range/business/person. Likely, they would.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I am really sad that it seems that many people who do wrong are able to hide behind corporations and companies....that people who knowingly do wrong to others are not held personally responsible when they are in a high level position. If they were, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to do wrong.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
legal filing comes from a fired employee trying to earn a significant payoff, right? Could it be
that 'some' of the claims are not accurate? As for the RICO part, I was unaware that private
individuals could do this. Isn't RICO under the purveyance of a district attorney?
My read on all the claims and charges is a bit different than most of the previous posters. I
can't help but be EXTREMELY skeptical of virtually everything in the legal filing. Of course, I
still believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so that may be shading my reaction.
<< <i>Totally disagree. If the Smithsonian were in charge of the assets, we would probably never see any of these great coins again.
Do you mean to buy them on the Black Market? >>
No, I mean that the Smithsonian is likely to keep these treasures out of view in a dingy storeroom rather than display them so that the public can see them.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
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The Reeded Edge
<< <i>Bayard, why would they choose the Chicago federal court over one with jurisdiction over Colorado anyway? And what may likely be the result of a change in venue?
And what might a change from federal to state court mean as to the outcome? >>
In addition to the alleged nexus, Chicago may have been chosen for Mr. Shepard's convenience. The federal courthouse is within walking distance of Harlan J. Berk, which I believe is his employer.
Change of venue likely means less expense for the defendants and more expense for the plaintiff. If the case is dismissed and must be refiled in Colorado state court, the statute of limitations may become a factor, i.e., plaintiff might lose on a technicality and not get a decision on the merits. I don't know the Colorado statutes of limitations.
P.S. None of my posts are legal advice and do not establish an attorney client relationship. I have no inside knowledge regarding this case. I realize that this board is probably intelligent enough to understand that without me mentioning it.
<< <i>Not to get in the way of the official ANA "fire 'em all" party, but you guys do realize that this
legal filing comes from a fired employee trying to earn a significant payoff, right? Could it be
that 'some' of the claims are not accurate? As for the RICO part, I was unaware that private
individuals could do this. Isn't RICO under the purveyance of a district attorney?
My read on all the claims and charges is a bit different than most of the previous posters. I
can't help but be EXTREMELY skeptical of virtually everything in the legal filing. Of course, I
still believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so that may be shading my reaction. >>
When one files a lawsuit like that, if the claims/assertions turn out to be false isn't one setting themself/themselves up for a libel suit?
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<< <i>
<< <i>Bayard, why would they choose the Chicago federal court over one with jurisdiction over Colorado anyway? And what may likely be the result of a change in venue?
And what might a change from federal to state court mean as to the outcome? >>
In addition to the alleged nexus, Chicago may have been chosen for Mr. Shepard's convenience. The federal courthouse is within walking distance of Harlan J. Berk, which I believe is his employer.
Change of venue likely means less expense for the defendants and more expense for the plaintiff. If the case is dismissed and must be refiled in Colorado state court, the statute of limitations may become a factor, i.e., plaintiff might lose on a technicality and not get a decision on the merits. I don't know the Colorado statutes of limitations.
P.S. None of my posts are legal advice and do not establish an attorney client relationship. I have no inside knowledge regarding this case. I realize that this board is probably intelligent enough to understand that without me mentioning it. >>
He left Harlan Berk and has been setting up under Simco for the past several shows.
Larry wanted to restore museum losses and Jeff wanted to build the web site.
<< <i>The ANA needs to move its headquarters to Illinois. It would no longer appear dysfunctional in relation to the politicians running this state (sigh). >>
<< <i>I think the source of the problem is in moving power from the ED to the board after Cipoletti was fired. Larry and Jeff both tried to do things and were slapped back by a power-hungry Board.
Larry wanted to restore museum losses and Jeff wanted to build the web site. >>
I get a sense of a power hungry board too. A very inept one at that much less the allegations made in the lawsuit.
On the other hand I find it a little hard to believe there was a conspiracy of 5 employed/director persons associated with the ANA targeted against one person ( Larry Shepard).
That seems an uphill battle for Larry to prove.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>Not to get in the way of the official ANA "fire 'em all" party, but you guys do realize that this
legal filing comes from a fired employee trying to earn a significant payoff, right? Could it be
that 'some' of the claims are not accurate? As for the RICO part, I was unaware that private
individuals could do this. Isn't RICO under the purveyance of a district attorney?
My read on all the claims and charges is a bit different than most of the previous posters. I
can't help but be EXTREMELY skeptical of virtually everything in the legal filing. Of course, I
still believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so that may be shading my reaction. >>
When one files a lawsuit like that, if the claims/assertions turn out to be false isn't one setting themself/themselves up for a libel suit? >>
I was in a rinki dink lawsuit and the other side said some pretty nasty unture stuff, i wanted the judge to admonish the attorney that filed it. No dice. You have quite a bit of freedom when you make filings i suppose.
There are 2 sides to every story and even if 50 percent is untrue overall it does not look good. Looking at what has happened the last 6 or so years there is problems galore at the ANA. This is not a isolated case of 1 fired employee.
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working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>I think the source of the problem is in moving power from the ED to the board after Cipoletti was fired. Larry and Jeff both tried to do things and were slapped back by a power-hungry Board.
Larry wanted to restore museum losses and Jeff wanted to build the web site. >>
I think you got half of it right.
The other half is that both men had person(s) under them that also wanted the job, and had expressed an interest in it in the past.
Controlling board over you, employees who want your job under you. Not a recipe for success.
Unfortunately, these issues were given renewed life after Jeff was terminated and that was after board candidates had declared and filed their position statements. Fortunately, Jeff's termination happened before the New Orleans candidate forum and several of us (I am a board candidate) had the opportunity to state our positions and commit to reviewing ANA operations if we are elected and have the necessary five votes. There is a risk with Shepherd's lawsuit, but if that is the case, the risk is there because of actions already taken by staff and board members. If there are problems and we choose to remain silent, then the ANA will not be in a position to restore its reputation and position in the collecting community. If any of the allegations are true, then the board must make changes in the management and staffing at headquarters. But, that can only be done with a public explanation based on an independent evaluation of organization management and concrete recommendations to correct problems that might be exposed.
Yes, we need a thorough review of the museum collection (and library, also a significant resource) and we need to solicit the opinions of members and non-members alike, but these will do little good if the basic management structure is dysfunctional. It will take some time, but it needs to start August 17.
Anything less than an open review of the issues raised by the repeated turnover in Executive Directors can only result in the continued slow decline in the organization's membership and prestige.
However, that doesn't mean that all of the claims will survive to trial. I do agree with Bayard that the RICO claim may be dismissed and the case may end up in Colorado state court. Federal courts don't really like to hear primarily state court actions that have a federal jurisdiction "hook." It is also interesting to me that the complaint alleges that most of the wrongful actions took place in Illinois. I didn't know that and, if true, it could provide plaintiff with a tactical advantage of an Illinois venue. However, it does "feel" like it belongs in a Colorado state court. But this will play out in time.
The one part of this dispute that has always perplexed me is the allegation of improper conduct by Mr. Shepard with another employee. Having handled plaintiff's employment cases for 15 years or so now, I have never encountered a case where an employer acted so swiftly and decisively against a senior manager for alleged improper conduct with a subordinate. In every instance I am aware of, the employer protected the senior manager, and sought to protect the company from exposure to action by the less senior employee. There are so many alternatives available to a company other than firing its senior management, that I was astounded when I heard about it. In this case, that leads me to suspect that the alleged wrongdoing by Mr. Shepherd in this regard is either not true, or, if true, had little to do with the firing. Either that or you have some pretty up-tight people in Colorado Springs. I have no personal knowledge of any of this but that part of the case makes no sense to me.
So, putting the alleged improper relationship stuff aside, you have comments about bid-rigging and a story of theft and mismanagement of a very valuable museum collection. Bid-rigging is very hard to prove and we already know the ANA mismanaged its museum collection which resulted in hundreds of thousand of dollars in losses. Juicy stuff! So unless Mr. Sirna and the ANA have Mr. Shepherd on bid-rigging, I like Mr. Shepherd's case, which is all the more reason that the ANA should have moved more carefully in deciding to fire him. And now the ANA is embroiled in yet another lawsuit, it will be "forced" by these allegations to do a full-scale investigation of its museum thefts, if it hasn't already, and it has lost the trust of many of its members. I am a life-member of the ANA and do not plan on quitting, but it does make you wonder what they were thinking.
The above are just my thoughts on the allegations, with no actual knowledge of the facts. So, if I offended anyone I apologize.
Tom
1) The suit was moved from Cook County Circuit Court to the United States District Court for Northern District of Illinois at the request of the ANA's lawyers. The two reasons I have been given for doing so is that Federal courts require a higher level of legal expertise than State courts and that they are more likely to dismiss cases, before trial, on motions for summary judgement.
2) The suit was filed in Illinois, not Colorado, because that is where Larry chose to file it. The complaint states it was done because some of the actions took place in Cook County (Rosemont).
Greg
<< <i>... it has lost the trust of many of its members..... >>
Other than the uproar on this Forum. much of which is from non-members of the ANA, and not necessarily, despite the Forum-centric world-view, because we are meta-symbolic of the entire sense of American numismatics, what is your definition of many? Are ANA membership renewals down? If so, any correlation established? Until demonstrated otherwise I'll consider this statement rhetorical rather than factual.
While some of the level of discourse is informed and rational, much of it can be characterized as ill-informed gossip and personal peevishness. In the Shevlin case (which not-so-coincidently co-serves as the nexus of this controversy) some Forum members here have, despite the quotation of relevant ANA By-Laws specifically forbidding this, continued to insist they are entitled to know who and what votes were cast in the Shevlin case.
The "power-hungry" ANA Board has a clearly-defined responsibility to RULE. They set the priorities for the Executive Director and judge the degree to which he might satisfy their directives.
And I still know nothing. Just like the rest of you. Virtually the rest is
Obviously, I consider any response to this post to be, as is this post itself, as is this and others threads about ANA Executive Directors, more
They are false and defamatory. Though I am not surprised as it was the reason I quit (though I did, in fact, come back to the ANA several times as requested). Shepherd went as far as to claim that I had produced false evidence (in Yeager's own handwriting!) in the weeks before I left. Shepherd and Sirna had the entire Museum staff wanting to leave when I left.
Mr. Shepherds claim that the ANA's struggling financial position and the museum thefts had anything to do with each other are completely false. The collection is not, and has never been, considered an asset. If it was the ANA would no longer be considered a non-profit.
The ANA quickly applied for, and received, an insurance payment for the coins stolen by Mr. Yeager (well before it was publicly known). They used those funds to pay for a new security system (instead of setting them aside as a fund to replace the missing coins).
His claim that he was responsible for locating many of the missing objects (at least before I left) is laughable. The museum staff, which he barely ever met with, did 99.9% of the work.
Also the claim that he deserves accolades pertaining to the investigation is complete rubbish.
In fact I am the one that discovered the thefts and discovered that Yeager was the perpetrator. None of this mess would have happened had I not wanted to see the museums 1792 Half Disme and then Doug Mudd and I discovered that it was no longer in the building.
There is much more "dirt" yet to be realized and it looks like it will all come out.
I would LOVE to go through this with all of you as, I am sure, it would be quite entertaining.
However...
it looks like I need to contact a lawyer! And yes, I am pissed off.
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
<< <i>I deny any allegations of wrongdoing by me (Robin Sisler) written within this suit.
They are false and defamatory. Though I am not surprised as it was the reason I quit (though I did, in fact, come back to the ANA several times as requested). Shepherd went as far as to claim that I had produced false evidence (in Yeager's own handwriting!) in the weeks before I left. Shepherd and Sirna had the entire Museum staff wanting to leave when I left.
Mr. Shepherds claim that the ANA's struggling financial position and the museum thefts had anything to do with each other are completely false. The collection is not, and has never been, considered an asset. If it was the ANA would no longer be considered a non-profit.
The ANA quickly applied for, and received, an insurance payment for the coins stolen by Mr. Yeager (well before it was publicly known). They used those funds to pay for a new security system (instead of setting them aside as a fund to replace the missing coins).
His claim that he was responsible for locating many of the missing objects (at least before I left) is laughable. The museum staff, which he barely ever met with, did 99.9% of the work.
Also the claim that he deserves accolades pertaining to the investigation is complete rubbish.
In fact I am the one that discovered the thefts and discovered that Yeager was the perpetrator. None of this mess would have happened had I not wanted to see the museums 1792 Half Disme and then Doug Mudd and I discovered that it was no longer in the building.
There is much more "dirt" yet to be realized and it looks like it will all come out.
I would LOVE to go through this with all of you as, I am sure, it would be quite entertaining.
However...
it looks like I need to contact a lawyer! And yes, I am pissed off. >>
Thanks for sharing details. It's important to get both sides of the story.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>The above are just my thoughts on the allegations, with no actual knowledge of the facts. So, if I offended anyone I apologize. >>
I accept your apology.
They are false and defamatory. Though I am not surprised as it was the reason I quit...
As I said before, if I was the new guy in charge, I'd fire EVERYONE and start over. Get someone from one of the big 4 firms to audit the entire collection and run operations.
He said, she said. As far as I am concerned, I would never do any business with any of you in the future.
If I was you, I get a really good lawyer, take out all the equity in my house if need be, get my affairs in order, and prepare to be away for 10-20. It's going to get ugly. You might want to subpoena emails from the ANA if you think they would back up your case before they disappear like the donated coins did.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Not to get in the way of the official ANA "fire 'em all" party, but you guys do realize that this
legal filing comes from a fired employee trying to earn a significant payoff, right? Could it be
that 'some' of the claims are not accurate? As for the RICO part, I was unaware that private
individuals could do this. Isn't RICO under the purveyance of a district attorney?
My read on all the claims and charges is a bit different than most of the previous posters. I
can't help but be EXTREMELY skeptical of virtually everything in the legal filing. Of course, I
still believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so that may be shading my reaction. >>
When one files a lawsuit like that, if the claims/assertions turn out to be false isn't one setting themself/themselves up for a libel suit? >>
I was in a rinki dink lawsuit and the other side said some pretty nasty unture stuff, i wanted the judge to admonish the attorney that filed it. No dice. You have quite a bit of freedom when you make filings i suppose.
There are 2 sides to every story and even if 50 percent is untrue overall it does not look good. Looking at what has happened the last 6 or so years there is problems galore at the ANA. This is not a isolated case of 1 fired employee. >>
Well i have always said there are at least 3 sides to any story,perception is my side your side and the truth generally lies somewhere in between.Just my thoughts on the matter,lots of grey area!
DPD RICO SUIT
The above civil case settled.
<< <i>As I said before, if I was the new guy in charge, I'd fire EVERYONE and start over. Get someone from one of the big 4 firms to audit the entire collection and run operations. >>
As if the ANA didn't have a rough enough time fund raising, who would want to contribute a dime with all this money is going to "outside consultants" and so little going toward the mission?
I would like to see the Charity Navigator rate this organization.
<< <i>Does anybody know how much the Executive director salary is or was? >>
I'm not sure about now but this article says "Cipoletti’s annual salary, benefits and expense account totaled more than $250,000."
<< <i>Wow ...
At least one recent poster here on this forum is branded a thief,
and the rug is pulled back to expose all the alleged dirt:
Larry Shepherd lawsuit against the ANA, revised filing text >>
Larry Shepherd's tenure as Executive Director was plagued by inappropriate activities secretly conducted by board members and disgruntled staff. The same types of inappropriate behavior, secretive discussions and non-based allegations continued to occur during my tenure as Executive Director as well as they did during the tenures of numerous Executive Directors that preceded Larry Shepherd.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow ...
At least one recent poster here on this forum is branded a thief,
and the rug is pulled back to expose all the alleged dirt:
Larry Shepherd lawsuit against the ANA, revised filing text >>
Larry Shepherd's tenure as Executive Director was plagued by inappropriate activities secretly conducted by board members and disgruntled staff. The same types of inappropriate behavior, secretive discussions and non-based allegations continued to occur during my tenure as Executive Director as well as they did during the tenures of numerous Executive Directors that preceded Larry Shepherd. >>
It's sad that such a once great organization has sunk so low.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow ...
At least one recent poster here on this forum is branded a thief,
and the rug is pulled back to expose all the alleged dirt:
Larry Shepherd lawsuit against the ANA, revised filing text >>
Larry Shepherd's tenure as Executive Director was plagued by inappropriate activities secretly conducted by board members and disgruntled staff. The same types of inappropriate behavior, secretive discussions and non-based allegations continued to occur during my tenure as Executive Director as well as they did during the tenures of numerous Executive Directors that preceded Larry Shepherd. >>
Go Laura. Sounds like they deserve what they gonna get....
Nothing good will come of this election. My magic eight ball says "Run."