Tom, I believe you're referrring to the 1904 $20 Liberty, double struck in the collar; rotated about 90 degrees.
That coin was purchased by Harry Gordon (Numismatics, Ltd.) in the late '70's out of Europe (Geneva, Union Bank, to be a bit more specific).
I sold the coin for $12,000 to Dennis Walker, an error collector, (among other things) who lived in Oregon. He owned the coin for decades - the last I heard about him, back in the mid/late 90's, he was murder in Las Vegas, and all of his coins had dissapeared........
Another D/S 1904 $20 was discovered, but I believe it was a totally different coin from the one I described above.
As far as other Gold errors - the 1974 Bolt Collection has 8 of 'em - the best being a GEM PL 1895 $5 Liberty, struck 35% Off-Center at 12:00 - the farthest O/C US Gold Coin known - and the darn thing looked like a Proof!
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Not to resurrect too old of a thread but I am proud to announce that we have placed this coin with a client of ours. He truly appreciates rare and interesting coins of all types and he is proud to have added this to his collection. I would like to thank Fred for giving us the opportunity to place this great error
<< <i>Not to resurrect too old of a thread but I am proud to announce that we have placed this coin with a client of ours. He truly appreciates rare and interesting coins of all types and he is proud to have added this to his collection. I would like to thank Fred for giving us the opportunity to place this great error >>
Congrats to your client! That is a spectacular error.
Please visit Dave Wnuck Numismatics LLC at DaveWcoins.com
Raw - I don't think it was worth the grading fees.....
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
<< <i>Raw - I don't think it was worth the grading fees..... >>
Interesting post considering this was nearly a 6 figure item >>
More to the point, I don't think Fred was going to recoup the grading fees when he sold the coin - it was worth what it was worth whether he spent the $100+ to put it in a slab or not.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>More to the point, I don't think Fred was going to recoup the grading fees when he sold the coin - it was worth what it was worth whether he spent the $100+ to put it in a slab or not. >>
Actually I have no issues with it as it's just good to hear that's still possible at that level in this day and age!
I can personally state that the raw portion of my collection has grown by leaps and bounds in the last half decade with no near future slabbing considerations.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
<< <i>More to the point, I don't think Fred was going to recoup the grading fees when he sold the coin - it was worth what it was worth whether he spent the $100+ to put it in a slab or not. >>
Actually I have no issues with it as it's just good to hear that's still possible at that level in this day and age!
I can personally state that the raw portion of my collection has grown by leaps and bounds in the last half decade with no near future slabbing considerations. >>
As has mine - the only coin I refuse to crack out for my date set albums is the '09-S VDB.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
It was sold over a week ago....raw.....as mentioned
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
I just transcribed a document for Roger Burdette's project documenting that someone took 30(!) gold bars from the Mint in 1893....not THAT long before this coin was created. (He was identified and caught....)
I don't think the security controls were nearly as good as we think they were....or should have been!
Got to see this piece when I went down to Berk's to say my goodbyes just before moving West. It is astounding.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
I vaguely remember seeing a close double struck in collar late-date $20 Lib, but I wouldn't swear by it.
The most spectacular mechanical error U.S. gold coin I ever saw came through ANACS in the early 80's. It was a common date Turban Head $10, probably 1801 but possibly 1799, that had been struck with a normal obverse and a full brockage reverse, that was pul back in the press and struck six more times. I counted seven relief strikes (all close) on the obverse and six relief strikes on the reverse, but you could still see the brockage strike.
We certified it and returned it to the collector who submitted it and nobody in the error field has ever seen it again.
Would love to see this piece surface someday!
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
I vaguely remember seeing a close double struck in collar late-date $20 Lib, but I wouldn't swear by it.
The most spectacular mechanical error U.S. gold coin I ever saw came through ANACS in the early 80's. It was a common date Turban Head $10, probably 1801 but possibly 1799, that had been struck with a normal obverse and a full brockage reverse, that was put back in the press and struck six more times. I counted seven relief strikes (all close) on the obverse and six relief strikes on the reverse, but you could still see the brockage strike.
We certified it and returned it to the collector who submitted it and nobody in the error field has ever seen it again.
WHERE IS THIS TURBAN HEAD $10 BROCKAGE???
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
I vaguely remember seeing a close double struck in collar late-date $20 Lib, but I wouldn't swear by it.
The most spectacular mechanical error U.S. gold coin I ever saw came through ANACS in the early 80's. It was a common date Turban Head $10, probably 1801 but possibly 1799, that had been struck with a normal obverse and a full brockage reverse, that was put back in the press and struck six more times. I counted seven relief strikes (all close) on the obverse and six relief strikes on the reverse, but you could still see the brockage strike.
We certified it and returned it to the collector who submitted it and nobody in the error field has ever seen it again.
Nope. The negative used to make the certificate is somewhere among the few hundred thousand negatives stored in the basement of the ANA, but the records that might help you find it no longer exist.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@Broadstruck said:
<< More to the point, I don't think Fred was going to recoup the grading fees when he sold the coin - it was worth what it was worth whether he spent the $100+ to put it in a slab or not. >>
Actually I have no issues with it as it's just good to hear that's still possible at that level in this day and age!
I can personally state that the raw portion of my collection has grown by leaps and bounds in the last half decade with no near future slabbing considerations.
The buyer had my word that it was genuine and not messed with. The grade was 100% irrelevant. No slab was needed.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@FredWeinberg said:
Thought I would share this new item - with an interesting story behind it.
In August of 2000, I rec'd an email from someone who said he owned a
Die Cap Morgan Dollar (!). I asked him to please email me scans of it.
He never did, so I figured it was a made-up story, or maybe he was
confusing it with a one-oz. silver round error, etc.
In 2004, he contacted me again, saying he was thinking of buying some
property, and would I be interested in it. I replied once again, saying,
certainly, please email me scans of it, and we'd go from there. No reply
or scans. I forgot about it....
About three weeks ago, my assistant was going thru old 'correspondence
files' to shred - she found the series of emails we had sent back and forth
since 2000 - and said "wow, this is old - do you want to try to contact him
again?"...I thought about it, and might have said "no" in another situation,
but because of what the coin was (supposedly), I said 'Oh well, let's try him
again"
I sent another email, rec'd a reply the same day, and he said that he still
had the coin, that his father rec'd it sometime in the early 1960's, but
that he didn't know anything else about how/why/where his father got it.
I asked for scans again (like I had been doing for almost 13 years!) -----
This time, two days later, the scans were emailed to me, and I just about
fell off my chair - a new discovery, never seen/heard of before, a 1903
Morgan Dollar Die Cap.....only the 2nd one known, as far I know.
(the other is an 1886, once owned by Amon Carter, now residing in the
Pacific Northwest, I believe)
It's one of my longest 'waiting to aquire' time-frame error coins, but I finally
got it..... hope the scans appear with this post for all to see..........
Comments
That is a centerpiece coin, if I have ever seen one. A once in a lifetime 'mistake'.
Cool factor is off the chart. WOW.
Dave
double struck in the collar; rotated about 90 degrees.
That coin was purchased by Harry Gordon (Numismatics, Ltd.)
in the late '70's out of Europe (Geneva, Union Bank, to be
a bit more specific).
I sold the coin for $12,000 to Dennis Walker, an error collector,
(among other things) who lived in Oregon. He owned the coin
for decades - the last I heard about him, back in the mid/late
90's, he was murder in Las Vegas, and all of his coins had
dissapeared........
Another D/S 1904 $20 was discovered, but I believe it was a
totally different coin from the one I described above.
As far as other Gold errors - the 1974 Bolt Collection has 8 of 'em -
the best being a GEM PL 1895 $5 Liberty, struck 35% Off-Center
at 12:00 - the farthest O/C US Gold Coin known - and the darn
thing looked like a Proof!
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
<< <i>Not to resurrect too old of a thread but I am proud to announce that we have placed this coin with a client of ours. He truly appreciates rare and interesting coins of all types and he is proud to have added this to his collection. I would like to thank Fred for giving us the opportunity to place this great error >>
Congrats to your client! That is a spectacular error.
<< <i>Pics by MDP
Greeniejr, Thanks for posting pics as it's like night and day compered to the scans in the OP.
Was this placed raw or was it encapsulated by a TPG?
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Congratulations on making the call.
<< <i>Raw - I don't think it was worth the grading fees..... >>
Interesting post considering this was nearly a 6 figure item
<< <i>
<< <i>Raw - I don't think it was worth the grading fees..... >>
Interesting post considering this was nearly a 6 figure item
More to the point, I don't think Fred was going to recoup the grading fees when he sold the coin - it was worth what it was worth whether he spent the $100+ to put it in a slab or not.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>More to the point, I don't think Fred was going to recoup the grading fees when he sold the coin - it was worth what it was worth whether he spent the $100+ to put it in a slab or not. >>
Actually I have no issues with it as it's just good to hear that's still possible at that level in this day and age!
I can personally state that the raw portion of my collection has grown by leaps and bounds in the last half decade with no near future slabbing considerations.
<< <i>
<< <i>More to the point, I don't think Fred was going to recoup the grading fees when he sold the coin - it was worth what it was worth whether he spent the $100+ to put it in a slab or not. >>
Actually I have no issues with it as it's just good to hear that's still possible at that level in this day and age!
I can personally state that the raw portion of my collection has grown by leaps and bounds in the last half decade with no near future slabbing considerations. >>
As has mine - the only coin I refuse to crack out for my date set albums is the '09-S VDB.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Congrats.
my car art & My Ebay stuff
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
What an amazing error this Morgan is!
Amazing coins! I'll say it again
Awe man. The this is an old thread... And here I was going to ask Fred to please bring it to Long Beach.
Interesting thread - even if it is years old.
Maybe the guy didn't own a scanner at the time?
.
stupendous. never tire of seeing that gr8 error and both of its obverses.
.
Will you be bringing it to FUN? I would love to see it in person.
Rainbow Stars
Regarding "How they got it out of the mint"....
I just transcribed a document for Roger Burdette's project documenting that someone took 30(!) gold bars from the Mint in 1893....not THAT long before this coin was created. (He was identified and caught....)
I don't think the security controls were nearly as good as we think they were....or should have been!
Catch and release. All possessions are only temporarily "ours".
Magnificent Dollar BTW!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Spectacular.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Got to see this piece when I went down to Berk's to say my goodbyes just before moving West. It is astounding.
TD
Is it in a holder or is it raw now?
wow, wicked coin, dude! how did I miss this the first time around?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Would love to see this piece surface someday!
TD
WOW!!!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
How wonderful for Fred to finally get this coin!
Old thread that I missed way back when. Really a spectacular coin!
Wow, that's a keeper for sure.
Free Trial
Amazing coin.... good to see this thread resurrected..... Would love to have seen this 'in hand'... Cheers, RickO
Omg wow! And a very strong brockage to boot. Simply amazing @FredWeinberg
Hoard the keys
Please do not throw it in thew trash by mistake lol. No Stella repeat
Hoard the keys
I also missed this thread the first time around.
Cool piece and story!
My YouTube Channel
WHERE IS THIS TURBAN HEAD $10 BROCKAGE???
Do you have photos?
Nope. The negative used to make the certificate is somewhere among the few hundred thousand negatives stored in the basement of the ANA, but the records that might help you find it no longer exist.
And now you’re handling the 1886 Brand-Carter die cap!
How would you compare them?
The buyer had my word that it was genuine and not messed with. The grade was 100% irrelevant. No slab was needed.
TD
PMD
Awesome original surfaces !
I see the luster.