13-Year Acquisition Time - Finally - Die Cap Morgan Dollar
FredWeinberg
Posts: 5,816 ✭✭✭✭✭
Thought I would share this new item - with an interesting story behind it.
In August of 2000, I rec'd an email from someone who said he owned a
Die Cap Morgan Dollar (!). I asked him to please email me scans of it.
He never did, so I figured it was a made-up story, or maybe he was
confusing it with a one-oz. silver round error, etc.
In 2004, he contacted me again, saying he was thinking of buying some
property, and would I be interested in it. I replied once again, saying,
certainly, please email me scans of it, and we'd go from there. No reply
or scans. I forgot about it....
About three weeks ago, my assistant was going thru old 'correspondence
files' to shred - she found the series of emails we had sent back and forth
since 2000 - and said "wow, this is old - do you want to try to contact him
again?"...I thought about it, and might have said "no" in another situation,
but because of what the coin was (supposedly), I said 'Oh well, let's try him
again"
I sent another email, rec'd a reply the same day, and he said that he still
had the coin, that his father rec'd it sometime in the early 1960's, but
that he didn't know anything else about how/why/where his father got it.
I asked for scans again (like I had been doing for almost 13 years!) -----
This time, two days later, the scans were emailed to me, and I just about
fell off my chair - a new discovery, never seen/heard of before, a 1903
Morgan Dollar Die Cap.....only the 2nd one known, as far I know.
(the other is an 1886, once owned by Amon Carter, now residing in the
Pacific Northwest, I believe)
It's one of my longest 'waiting to aquire' time-frame error coins, but I finally
got it..... hope the scans appear with this post for all to see..........
In August of 2000, I rec'd an email from someone who said he owned a
Die Cap Morgan Dollar (!). I asked him to please email me scans of it.
He never did, so I figured it was a made-up story, or maybe he was
confusing it with a one-oz. silver round error, etc.
In 2004, he contacted me again, saying he was thinking of buying some
property, and would I be interested in it. I replied once again, saying,
certainly, please email me scans of it, and we'd go from there. No reply
or scans. I forgot about it....
About three weeks ago, my assistant was going thru old 'correspondence
files' to shred - she found the series of emails we had sent back and forth
since 2000 - and said "wow, this is old - do you want to try to contact him
again?"...I thought about it, and might have said "no" in another situation,
but because of what the coin was (supposedly), I said 'Oh well, let's try him
again"
I sent another email, rec'd a reply the same day, and he said that he still
had the coin, that his father rec'd it sometime in the early 1960's, but
that he didn't know anything else about how/why/where his father got it.
I asked for scans again (like I had been doing for almost 13 years!) -----
This time, two days later, the scans were emailed to me, and I just about
fell off my chair - a new discovery, never seen/heard of before, a 1903
Morgan Dollar Die Cap.....only the 2nd one known, as far I know.
(the other is an 1886, once owned by Amon Carter, now residing in the
Pacific Northwest, I believe)
It's one of my longest 'waiting to aquire' time-frame error coins, but I finally
got it..... hope the scans appear with this post for all to see..........
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
11
Comments
It's huge!
-Paul
I bet something else dang near fell out of the chair
Great luck......
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
<< <i>WOW
Ditto!
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Great story.
Congrats on your initiative.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
The Penny Lady®
Here's the other known 1886...
The stories to be told...
Ray
Tom
Thanks for posting it.
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
canvas bags, and it's -possible- this one, &
the 1886, got out that way.
However, it's also just as possible that someone
thought they were 'cool' (even for that time period)
and took it out of the Mint......
At 110 years old, (a decade before the 1913 Nickel
Minting Event), I'm not concerned..........
Hate to brag (well, maybe not), but the 1903 is a
deeper 'cup' than the 1886 ----- Thanks for posting that one !
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Hope this happens again someday!
bob
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Thanks for posting and I'm glad you were able to get it.
but I'm not sure I should say here,
as I don't want to be 'flamed' or
whatever, for quoting an item I own.
What do you guys think about my concerns?
Or, should I let members guess for a day or
so, before I post a number?
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Enjoy it in good health.
<< <i>That is amazing!!! Thanks for sharing this Fred. >>
If it had been a die cap IHC we know we would be hearing from you!
<< <i>Will, I do have an idea for value,
but I'm not sure I should say here,
as I don't want to be 'flamed' or
whatever, for quoting an item I own.
What do you guys think about my concerns?
Or, should I let members guess for a day or
so, before I post a number? >>
Don't keep us hanging. For most of us, this item is either out of reach or just not something we collect. Still, I, for one, would love to know what a coin like this ballparks for.
Tom
Hoard the keys.
Perhaps it's time for a 2nd edition of "World's Greatest Error Coins".
Can this be slabbed?
WAG for value: How about a Benjamin for each day of the calendar year?
Edited to update, and quickly -
Good timing Fred.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
valued/'asked' at $100,000 - and I know
for a fact that there were, at the time,
serious considerations and discussions
for it in that range. It hasn't been sold,
as far as I know.
I value this one at $80,000.
At this time, I'll probably keep it raw, although
I could send to either service for a 'thick' holder.
It'll end up in plastic eventually......
It's pretty dramatic by itself, and I'm not sure
how it will look in a holder.....as far as full
eye-appeal.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
<< <i>The Other piece, about 10 years ago, was
valued/'asked' at $100,000 - and I know
for a fact that there were, at the time,
serious considerations and discussions
for it in that range. It hasn't been sold,
as far as I know.
I value this one at $80,000.
At this time, I'll probably keep it raw, although
I could send to either service for a 'thick' holder.
It'll end up in plastic eventually......
It's pretty dramatic by itself, and I'm not sure
how it will look in a holder.....as far as full
eye-appeal. >>
So is it for sale at that price or are you hanging onto it for now? I'm asking as a curious observer, not a buyer, if that wasn't obvious.
Sean Reynolds
P.S.: very cool piece, and good on you for having the perseverance to keep after it. There's a guy who has a coin I need for my date set, and I've been checking in with him every couple of years since the late 1990s asking if he's ready to sell it yet.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Although Silver Dollars were put in 1,000 coin
canvas bags, and it's -possible- this one, &
the 1886, got out that way.
>>
If they got out in a bag, one would expect there would be modest number of fully brockaged examples too. Had the brockaged pieces been caught, the die cap would have almost certain been caught. Therefore, had the die cap gone through in a bag, its likely the corresponding brockaged pieces would have as well. Are there enough Morgan Dollar broackages to support that hypothesis?
a link I found
there -could- be, in a bag of 1,000
pcs., the coins that this Die Cap
struck - although many similar types
of errors that produce other coins
are not always found in bags.
I was just postulating a theory of
how it could get out in a canvas
bag - odds are someone 'liked' it.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
To give some pricing context... I remember a spectacular Indian cent cap that sold on eBay maybe 10 years or so ago, for a bit over $10,000 if I recall. The Heritage archives have a 2c cap and a 1859 1c cap for $23,000 each, and a large cent cap for $20,000. Before reading Fred's price estimate I was thinking "mid five figures"... which is more or less what he said. Size counts!
That is a fantastic piece and I am looking forward to
see it at the ANA in New Orleans in May. [ If it hasn't
sold by then at Central States ].
It makes my 1898 Barber Quarter Die Cap - Full Brockage look puny !
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>WOW.
To give some pricing context... I remember a spectacular Indian cent cap that sold on eBay maybe 10 years or so ago, for a bit over $10,000 if I recall. The Heritage archives have a 2c cap and a 1859 1c cap for $23,000 each, and a large cent cap for $20,000. Before reading Fred's price estimate I was thinking "mid five figures"... which is more or less what he said. Size counts! >>
Is there any sales history on that Carson City mated pair of Trade dollars? Those are the only things I can think of that are even close to this coin (other than the 1886 posted earlier in the thread).
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Cost: $28500
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
2003 ANA Auction - and brought about
$28,000 as I recall.
It was later in another auction, where it
brought close to $60K, I believe.
That was a spectacular, to say the least,
and unique looking, Die Cap. I've never
seen anything like it before, or since.
It's #3 in the Whitman "100 Greatest U.S.
Error Coins"
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
if someone gives the green light, i'll post images for the 1862 since there are a few being posted in this thread now, or someone else can do it, either way
.
<< <i>How did something like that get out of the mint?
It's huge! >>
Very quietly is my guess