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To what extent will you "stretch" for the right coin?

AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
During the last two months, two type coins have been offerred in the market at auction that I desired to add to my collection. One was an upgrade, and other was a key that is rarely offerred in affordable grade. In both circumstances, I was outbid, and lost the auction. In one example, I regreted not bidding more. Bidding live on the phone and during the heat of the moment, I decided not to go above my preset max.

In another recent example, I bid my max in the online bidding, and expected it would be enough to win the coin. Wrong. There was one more bid placed, and put the coin in a price close to the next grade. In this case, I had no regrets as the coin went for strong money. What surprised me is a dealer purchased the coin, and has resold it for a profit. So I may have been wrong, but oh well.

So what brings me to my question for everyone. When a coin you have been looking for is up for sale, to what extent will you stretch? To the next grade? Do you have a problem setting a record? (Hi Bruce image)

Ankur
All coins kept in bank vaults.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This much...

    image

    Unfortunately, I do not care for the recoil.

    In all seriousness, I think that if you are not comfortable, don't do it. I have paid "record prices" for relatively mundane items and have rarely regretted it because I understand the coin, the market, and its value to me. Plus, I am not squandering the mortgage payment.

    No matter what, don't kick yourself for passing. "One door closes, and another one opens."
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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have no problem setting a record and have caused others to set new records. Two such examples come to mind-----In one case I was sooooo glad to have been outbid on a coin but in the other----I would have bid more if given the opportunity, in retrospect.

    And yes, if the coin is nice----I would pay up to or at least NEAR that next grade. If it gets too close---I would just as soon have a higher graded coin but a nice one in the next grade up will cost you a premium, as well. I currently only have ONE coin in my set that is real near that next grade level in price----I had to have it and I got caught up in 'auction fever'. Sometimes, I regret it a little but it is still a super PQ special piece.

    Sometimes I've paid moon money and other times I've gotten really lucky and paid little. It is the yin and yang of the hobby--I guess. Sometimes, we breakeven overall and sometimes were even well ahead.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623
    Depends how long I planed on keeping it.
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    PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭
    image
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
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    ranshdowranshdow Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭✭
    There's stretching for the coin, which is what you and RYK seem to be talking about, and there's stretching for the buyer. By the latter I mean paying outside of one's comfort zone, regardless of what one is stretching for.

    There's a difference between paying AU58 money for an AU53, and buying a coin at a price three times higher than you've ever spent for a single coin.

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    SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Depends on what the piece is, and my perception of how many more shots I would have at snagging a specimen in comparable or better grade within my active collecting lifetime. Could go to the next grade up. Of course, if the coin is really scarce, forget about price guides.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
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    ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    i have found that id rather spend years enjoying a coin i overpaid for than spending years kicking myself i the ass for not bidding high enough.
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
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    AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>i have found that id rather spend years enjoying a coin i overpaid for than spending years kicking myself i the ass for not bidding high enough. >>



    Well said.

    Someone who I hold very highly in numismatics has told me to be patient. Since I am young, as are a good number of collectors here, I will get another chance as many collections will be offerred during my collecting years. Lets just hope the price hasn't doubled! image
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll stretch pretty far if I really really like the coin. I don't really see it as overpaying either. I mean for to pay such a high price, there has to be at least one underbidder who was willing to almost pay as much as me. Also, I figure that there's got to be someone out there somewhere that will at least like the coin as much as I did (if not like it more) when the time comes to sell the coin. So far it's worked pretty well I think, but I also haven't tried to sell a few of those I really really stretched for either!

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    CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭
    My stretching is bound by the elasticity of Paper and Plastic.......... image

    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

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    ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>i have found that id rather spend years enjoying a coin i overpaid for than spending years kicking myself i the ass for not bidding high enough. >>



    I really have to disagree with the above. If you overpaid for something, you paid too much for it. Period. You're buried in it; you made an expensive mistake.

    That's different than paying what for you is a lot of money for a coin, but is an amount you believe to be reasonable for said coin. I know what a nice for the grade coin I am looking for should cost, and will pay a premium - but not a huge one - for a really nice coin. But my max bid is my max bid. I have been an under-bidder on a nice coin many times, and I have absolutely no regrets not getting the coin.

    I PMed a forum member we all know about a coin which to me was the most impressive I've ever seen of a particular series. I put in my max bid and bidding went higher. I could have outbid the winner's bid on the coin, but I declined to do so. Why? Because it cost more than I thought it was worth. Keep in mind that I will never see a coin in this series as nice as this one again. I don't care.

    I collect coins with discretionary funds. If I can think I can put $X to better use than buying a particular coin, I don't buy said coin. I have been collecting coins on and off for the last fifty years. I have never seen a coin that I absolutely had to own, and I never will.

    Re how much of a premium? It depends. I collect business strike Liberty Nickels in PC 6 holders. If you can find a particular date in a 7 holder, they often go for 3X their counterpart in a 6 holder; sometimes more. Making a 7 is something I don't have the patience to deal with; it's beyond difficult in this series. So no way will I buy a particular dated Liberty Nickel in a PC 6 holder and pay half way to 7 money. That's a guaranteed way to get buried in a coin, which per my first paragraph, is making an expensive mistake.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
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    SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the key to not overpaying but still stretching is to do your research and know your maximum well before the bidding starts. Don't let emotion get the best of you, as the underbidder might not have the same emotions the next time it comes around (just because someone was willing to pay X at some time, doesn't mean they're willing to pay even X-5% ten minutes later).

    If you lose by an increment, you lose by an increment - it hurts at times, but that's what my tuition has taught me.
    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
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    magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780
    "To what extent will you "stretch" for the right - unpublished Lusitania & Mauretania photograph/liner fitting/Golden Hollywood autograph/1939 NYWF Kodachrome etc.

    Pretty darn far after 15-20 years. No regrets.
    I would stretch much, much further to get my mom's health back tho.

    Best,
    Eric
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>i have found that id rather spend years enjoying a coin i overpaid for than spending years kicking myself i the ass for not bidding high enough. >>



    I really have to disagree with the above. If you overpaid for something, you paid too much for it. Period. You're buried in it; you made an expensive mistake.

    That's different than paying what for you is a lot of money for a coin, but is an amount you believe to be reasonable for said coin. I know what a nice for the grade coin I am looking for should cost, and will pay a premium - but not a huge one - for a really nice coin. But my max bid is my max bid. I have been an under-bidder on a nice coin many times, and I have absolutely no regrets not getting the coin.

    I PMed a forum member we all know about a coin which to me was the most impressive I've ever seen of a particular series. I put in my max bid and bidding went higher. I could have outbid the winner's bid on the coin, but I declined to do so. Why? Because it cost more than I thought it was worth. Keep in mind that I will never see a coin in this series as nice as this one again. I don't care.

    I collect coins with discretionary funds. If I can think I can put $X to better use than buying a particular coin, I don't buy said coin. I have been collecting coins on and off for the last fifty years. I have never seen a coin that I absolutely had to own, and I never will.

    Re how much of a premium? It depends. I collect business strike Liberty Nickels in PC 6 holders. If you can find a particular date in a 7 holder, they often go for 3X their counterpart in a 6 holder; sometimes more. Making a 7 is something I don't have the patience to deal with; it's beyond difficult in this series. So no way will I buy a particular dated Liberty Nickel in a PC 6 holder and pay half way to 7 money. That's a guaranteed way to get buried in a coin, which per my first paragraph, is making an expensive mistake. >>




    In principle I have to agree, but there are exceptions. I was an under bidder on some of the less expensive gold bars that were auctioned from the original SS Republic sale. Now those "less expensive" gold bars have an astronomical price. Same with several lower grade 1794 dollars that I bid on in several different auctions during the same time frame. At one increment higher I would not have overpaid for either but who knows how much more the winning bidder might have continued upping the ante if I kept increasing my bid to beat his?
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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,756 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've been collecting coins for decades, but only "valuable" coins for the past two or three years. One thing I'm learning is that in my arena there are fewer reasons to stretch than I initially thought. Patience is a tremendous asset if you can acquire the discipline to walk away and wait for a better price. Mark Feld has a healthy take on this. Nice coins (stuff that I think is in the top 5% of its class) come around with reasonable frequency in a year or two's time. I'm not generally playing with the top-pop, cutthroat registry crowd, so my take on the situation is maybe different than for some people. If a coin only comes around once in a generation, you're really in trouble, but I see no reason to play in that pool yet, if ever.

    There is one particular coin though, that if I found it, I'd buy it, whatever I had to do to afford it. Generic versions of this coin are as common as snow in Alaska, but the one that I'm after has certain attributes that make it a rare thing indeed.
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    rec78rec78 Posts: 5,698 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have been collecting coins for 55 years. I have learned to stretch for what I want and have no regrets about it. I wish I would have stretched for a 1793 liberty cap large cent when they were available in g-vg for about $3k---This coin is the last one I need for my large cent set. I thought I could always buy one later--Now I am totally out of the ball park of ever getting one. Or the 1873-CC quarter in vf at $4k in one of Bowers auctions--This is the last one I need for this set--the price has risen beyond my ability to buy it. Also the 1878-S vf half dollar Jimmy O'Donnell had for 13K-($50-60K now)-This is the last one I need for this set. I could go on and on --Stretch, buy the coin if you like it - you won't be sorry tomorrow. Even if you overpay, at least you have it. I have learned to GO FOR IT.--Today's overpriced coins are tomorrows bargains. (Provided you don't buy junk coins from Home shopping network, etc,).

    I bought my 1901-S barber quarter just in time before the big price rise. I wanted a 1916 SL quarter but decided to wait--Well dummy me, the price sky-rocketed from $2100 to $8K or more almost overnight. I know most people think that the 1916 SL quarter is overpriced, BUT no one has one to sell at a price they think is reasonable. If you want a coin you have to pay the going rate.

    If you don't buy it, someone else will.
    Bob
    image
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    AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
    Excellent points by everyone for both sides!

    Realone: maybe I should clarify as I'm NOT talking about pedigrees, rare varieties, or grade rarities. I'm talking about general scarcity of type and of key dates. The former is thinly traded in many cases, and a very small percentage of people may be willing to stretch.

    Bryce: I agree 100% that patience is a must in ANY field of collecting.

    One coin I am trying to buy in AU is an octagonal pan pac. They seem to have doubled in all grades over the last 10 years! Will it continue? Who knows? But it's one coin I will stretch for and sell others if I have to.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
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    s4nys4ny Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭
    Read the book "Hit Me" by Lawrence Block. The book just came out and the main character is
    a professional hit man who collects rare stamps. He struggles with this very question.
    He paid $18,000 for a stamp that had a book value of $8500.

    He rationalizes the purchase to himself because he picked up a bonus for a hit. In another
    case he frets that he will miss the morning session of an auction to set up a hit in NY City.

    He specializes in Colonial stamps up to 1940 and he helps a couple of widows
    sell collections, one of which is quite valuable. He is quite methodical in both
    his profession and his hobby.
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I already knew which coin I wanted. I made sure I could cover the cost, just in case. And there it was - probably a bit overpriced, but exactly the coin I was seeking, and a perfect fit for my set. It took me less time to decide on that coin than it has taken me for coins priced at a tenth of the cost.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,532 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RYK's response goes ditto for me. Great minds think alike. image


    (Except for the don't kick yourself for passing part...I've been known to do that occasionally. image )
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    ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,761 ✭✭✭✭
    I'll sell a coin from my collection that I feel is more easily replaced in order to acquire something really difficult to find.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
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    lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It all depends how important numismatics is to you.
    No stretching for me.
    LCoopie = Les
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    jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have stretched for a few and been glad Ive done it.


    But I wont stretch beyond my financial means . Like getting a loan or something to purchase it. (although there have been a couple I would have liked too!)

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wellllllll, this is actually a tough question because it touches so many levels. I have always said that the best bargain in numismatics is a just missed it coin for the next grade - because the quality increment outweighs the price increment. However, if you stretch too far it's no longer a bargain and you could just as well buy the next grade up. But then again to assess this you would really need to know the absolute true market value for the coin in each of those grades. And frankly, most so called rare coins aren't so rare and opportunities to buy them come along all the time.

    Now, the truly rare once in a lifetime stuff? That's different - because most of the time the record price you pay becomes the new baseline for its value. Is it ever really a stretch if you don't really overpay? Take the 1794 dollar for instance. I knew that if we paid less than $10M, the coin's true value might never be recognized. But if we stepped up and paid the big number, it would never go below that value again (barring a major market crash). Was it a stretch? Not in my opinion!
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    shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's a dealer, who people question his pricing, who has been in business for a long time who prices his retail inventory at list plus 3-5 years of projected increase in value. Would you buy a coin from him? Apparently lots of people do. I used to buy raw coins from him and made out in the long term on all of them...does the formula work today in the slab world? I don't know but he's still around.

    I have stretched to book x 2 or book x 3 for certain coins in certain series. In other series I want the coin to be "all there" and still expect a discount. As was stated, it depends.
    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    If the coin is fairly easy to find, but I need it, I have no problem paying a little more than similar coins have sold for in the past two years. This method has indeed made me the high buyer of such coins recently.

    For a coin that is hardly ever available, I always try to remember that I may be competing against at least one other bidder---with deep pockets. Deep pocket bidders have actually caused me to lower many of my max bids, because I know bidding against them is useless.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    lol you cannot be "buried" in something that only comes along every five years or so.. ive noticed that people are only as patient as thier wallet allows.
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
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    nagsnags Posts: 794 ✭✭✭✭
    It seems to me that almost all collectors stretch themselves. I know that the coins I tend to be drawn to are the ones right at the edge of my comfort level. Depending on an individual, that may be a $10 coin, $100, $1000.... or heaven forbid $10,000,000.

    I know that I can't afford with buy a million dollar coin without making MAJOR sacrifices which would make such a purchases extremely foolish for me at this point. For that reason I admire there ultra exclusive coins, but don't feel slighted or tempted to reach. On the other hand, there is a level that makes me very tempted to stretch a bit.

    I think in the end it is a financial decision first for almost everyone. Can I legitimately afford to spend whatever on this discretionary item, be it a coin, car, home, guitar...? After the financial implications are weighed it's easy to stretch and becomes more about desire and personal value than financial sense. I'd much rather spend $2000 on something I love (with a "value" of $1000) than $1000 for a $2000 item which I have no need for.

    I'd bet we all kinda collect at the level we can collect. I doubt that TDN would be satisfied collecting circulated lincoln penny's. It's fun to play $5/hand blackjack until you get used to playing for a higher stake. Than the $5 game gets awfully boring.
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    renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about this: Can you afford not to?

    Two coins come to mind from my collection that were both bought and sold years ago. My 1915-s Lincoln, and my '55 DDO. Both coins were incredible examples.

    The '15-s was a 65RB with a 66RD obverse and a 65RB reverse. At the time the price guide said $2850 and I paid $4500. When I went to sell the set, a few coins got pulled out for special consideration. I mean, out of about 150 coins, there were only three or four that made the cut and got sent out to a collector. He saw the '15-s and immediately agreed to my price of $9000.

    The '55DDO was a 64RD whose only detriment was the slightest mellowing of the color. Other than that, it was simply the best '55DDO I had, or have ever seen. I paid $13K, another record price for the issue/grade. When it came time to sell (one of my few regrets in numismatics) it was sold to another set collector for $16K. He whined a lot about it, but when he got it, he told me the same, that it was the best '55DDO in any grade that he'd ever seen. I told him that I would like to buy it back someday. Not a chance. image

    I am fortunate enough to still own many other examples that I had to "stretch" for. One day, when I sell, others will have to as well.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll pay a little over the PCGS retail price guide if the coin meets my standards for the grade with good eye appeal. I have not given up on guides like the Gray Sheet. At recent show a dealer had a nice looking 19th century coin in PR-65. He wanted a bit over double bid. It was nice, but it was not THAT nice.

    The rest of his material was up there too. He had an MS-67 graded scarce early commemorative dollar for which he needed $17,000. The coin had deep original toning with some less than attractive darker toned (black) areas on the edge. Since MS-66 bid was $2,875, I thought his number was a bid steep.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had been offered by the OP to help me "stretch" for a coin I had wanted See this thread and I am glad I did. It was him, and a few others who convinced, and helped me to stretch.
    Although I cannot help on this matter, I certainly would encourage you to "go for it", as opportunities to acquire harder to find coins will pass you by and you may regret it later on.

    image

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    FlashFlash Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭
    I will sretch as far as the reasonable amount for the coin I'm interested in, but at no time to exceed my accumulated hobby savings.
    Matt
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wellllllll, this is actually a tough question because it touches so many levels. I have always said that the best bargain in numismatics is a just missed it coin for the next grade - because the quality increment outweighs the price increment. However, if you stretch too far it's no longer a bargain and you could just as well buy the next grade up. But then again to assess this you would really need to know the absolute true market value for the coin in each of those grades. And frankly, most so called rare coins aren't so rare and opportunities to buy them come along all the time.

    Now, the truly rare once in a lifetime stuff? That's different - because most of the time the record price you pay becomes the new baseline for its value. Is it ever really a stretch if you don't really overpay? Take the 1794 dollar for instance. I knew that if we paid less than $10M, the coin's true value might never be recognized. But if we stepped up and paid the big number, it would never go below that value again (barring a major market crash). Was it a stretch? Not in my opinion! >>



    Thanks for sharing again on the topic of the 1794 dollar. Would you agree that there is a close analogy to a coin like that being compared to a rare and unique painting such as one of the Van Gogh Sunflower paintings(Vase with 15 Sunflowers) that Japanese buyer Yasuo Goto payed a then new record 39.9 million in 1987? At that time it was 4 times more than any painting had previously sold. If I recall correctly he had to take a huge loss on it during an economic downturn but I have not been able to confirm that. Reportedly it was at one time, if not still, exhibited in a museum possibly tied somehow to the buyer, The Seiji Togo Yasuda Memorial Museum of Art in Tokyo. Someone asked an art expert what its current value was, and his response was "Priceless." (On a side note, interestingly I was surprised to learn that there remains to this day some question as to whether the painting itself is a forgery.)
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    SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A well-known painting by an impressionist master like van Gogh is more liquid than any major coin. Not a good comparison.
    Paintings like this draw oohs and aahs from a wide swath of people. Coins? Not so much.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Take the 1794 dollar for instance. I knew that if we paid less than $10M, the coin's true value might never be recognized. But if we stepped up and paid the big number, it would never go below that value again

    Ballsy!
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    [qIf you overpaid for something, you paid too much for it. Period. You're buried in it; you made an expensive mistake.

    I collect coins with discretionary funds. If I can think I can put $X to better use than buying a particular coin, I don't buy said coin. I have been collecting coins on and off for the last fifty years. I have never seen a coin that I absolutely had to own, and I never will. >>



    These two statements sum it up for me, I will not stretch as there will always be another coin. I can see where for those in the deep end of the pool buying coins that only come to light every 10 years or less and where there are limited numbers availible(think under 20 known here) where stretching might be the only option; but that applies to a very small number of coins.
    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>lol you cannot be "buried" in something that only comes along every five years or so.. ive noticed that people are only as patient as thier wallet allows. >>



    You can laugh all the way to the poor house if you wish. The coin I referenced in my earlier post I first saw six years ago and will never see anything like it again. The current owner is buried in it.

    For the kind of coins that TDN seeks, you might have a point. But imo, anything else will show up again, sooner or later if you are patient enough.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
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    magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780
    FWIW,

    van Gogh was a POST impressionist, and there are many sunflower canvases (14 all told?), starting with the about 4 from 1887 (one is in the Metropolitan) on to those in 1888 and '89. So, I don't know if this is a good analogy with the 94 1$

    Eric
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
    First point, which I think is obvious but still needs to be stated, is that the more irreplaceable and fabulous a coin, the faster it is likely to turn from a "burial" to a financial winner. Therefore, assuming you've found the right coin, the longer you're prepared to hold it, the less you should worry about "stretching". (Conversely, if the coin is nothing special, time can turn a good deal into a bad one. But we digress!)

    The second point, which is critical, is that you have to be honest with yourself about how well you know the coin and how well you know the market. Before I give you an example, here's the basic rule. The more you know about a really special coin, the more you should be willing to stretch, because you may very well appreciate it more than anyone else. And the less you know about the market, the more you should be willing to stretch, because your estimate of the value is just a guess.

    Now, the example. Yesterday, I bid on an unbelievably nice Guatemalan Pillar One Real, far better than anything I had ever seen before. I knew enough to know that this was a coin I should be buying, and I knew enough to set an initial bidding limit. But when competition sent the price to almost double what I had in mind, I bought it anyway, because I knew two things. First, this is the type of coin that has mega-potential as an investment. Second, my initial limit was not much more than a guess at the true value, and I shouldn't take my guesses too seriously. Was it a burial? I don't know, but I'm convinced that it was a smart bet. And besides, I really wanted the coin, and now I'm happy!
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,912 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>First point, which I think is obvious but still needs to be stated, is that the more irreplaceable and fabulous a coin, the faster it is likely to turn from a "burial" to a financial winner. Therefore, assuming you've found the right coin, the longer you're prepared to hold it, the less you should worry about "stretching". (Conversely, if the coin is nothing special, time can turn a good deal into a bad one. But we digress!)

    The second point, which is critical, is that you have to be honest with yourself about how well you know the coin and how well you know the market. Before I give you an example, here's the basic rule. The more you know about a really special coin, the more you should be willing to stretch, because you may very well appreciate it more than anyone else. And the less you know about the market, the more you should be willing to stretch, because estimate of the value is just a guess.

    Now, the example. Yesterday, I bid on an unbelievably nice Guatemalan Pillar One Real, far better than anything I had ever seen before. I knew enough to know that this was a coin I should be buying, and I knew enough to set an initial bidding limit. But when competition sent the price to almost double what I had in mind, I bought it anyway, because I knew two things. First, this is the type of coin that has mega-potential as an investment. Second, my initial limit was not much more than a guess at the true value, and I shouldn't take my guesses too seriously. Was it a burial? I don't know, but I'm convinced that it was a smart bet. And besides, I really wanted the coin, and now I'm happy! >>



    Great realk life advice.

    Please show us a picture when you get a chance.image
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    NicNic Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you should stretch far for the right rare coin if you know the market.

    I would never stretch for an AU $50 PP. Wait and buy a 2 shot 3 or better 3 shot 4. I love this issue BTW.

    K
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm at a wierd place in my coin collecting: I'm so picky, there are no coins that meet my standards. image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    FredFFredF Posts: 526 ✭✭✭
    Once when I was younger and didn't know what I was doing (not that I know much now) I stretched to the price of the next higher grade on a coin, simply because it was in an OGH and as everyone "knows," OGH's understate the coin's grade by 1 full point, 100% of the time. It cost me an extra $50 or something like that. Still have the coin, it is nice for the assigned grade, and I keep it and laugh at myself when I get that set out.

    I once, some years later, paid double the 'market' price for a coin if you were going by past auction results. It was an AU58 coin, and it was better looking than any coin of that type AU50-MS63 that I had seen in the three years I was looking. That cost me much more than $50 extra, but I absolutely believe it was the right price. Wouldn't you know it though, a year later an even better example of that coin, also in AU58, came by. I didn't need to bid for it because I had mine (which I really like), but the winner paid about 25% more than I paid for mine, and I think the winner got an absolute beauty at a good price. Clearly at least 2 people thought that the "book" was wrong.

    So stretching for a coin IMO isn't a question of amount, it's really a question of how you value the coin. We can argue whether coins have any intrinsic value at all. One of TDN's beauties would still only melt to $29 or so in silver. If you get past that, then if you're able to be happy with the purchase after the fact then I wouldn't worry with it. Helps if you're not buying the coin for a flip or buying the coin with money you need for essentials, neither of which I would advise people do.

    -Fred

    Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins

  • Options


    << <i>First point, which I think is obvious but still needs to be stated, is that the more irreplaceable and fabulous a coin, the faster it is likely to turn from a "burial" to a financial winner. Therefore, assuming you've found the right coin, the longer you're prepared to hold it, the less you should worry about "stretching". (Conversely, if the coin is nothing special, time can turn a good deal into a bad one. But we digress!)

    The second point, which is critical, is that you have to be honest with yourself about how well you know the coin and how well you know the market. Before I give you an example, here's the basic rule. The more you know about a really special coin, the more you should be willing to stretch, because you may very well appreciate it more than anyone else. And the less you know about the market, the more you should be willing to stretch, because your estimate of the value is just a guess.

    Now, the example. Yesterday, I bid on an unbelievably nice Guatemalan Pillar One Real, far better than anything I had ever seen before. I knew enough to know that this was a coin I should be buying, and I knew enough to set an initial bidding limit. But when competition sent the price to almost double what I had in mind, I bought it anyway, because I knew two things. First, this is the type of coin that has mega-potential as an investment. Second, my initial limit was not much more than a guess at the true value, and I shouldn't take my guesses too seriously. Was it a burial? I don't know, but I'm convinced that it was a smart bet. And besides, I really wanted the coin, and now I'm happy! >>



    This. many gems here.

    Eric
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    CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To what extent will you "stretch" for the right coin? >>



    If I really want the coin, far. Very far. New record far.

    But this presumes that I have sufficient expertise in the issue / type / series to know if a particular example is truly 'stretch-worthy'.

    I would also add that I reject the notion that the price I should pay for such a coin should be influenced by the price (or price guide listing) of average examples in the same or similar grades, that are not particularly choice, or attractive, and which I have no interest in owning.



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    LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd stretch for the right plastic. image

    There aren't any coins I just gotta have at any cost. Sometimes it's good enough just to have the chance to see them.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.

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