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Coin Show Mistake - Lack of doing your homework
Cougar1978
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You (a full time dealer) buy a coin at a show from a dealer you essentially like / trust, a nice attractive type piece for $1050 graded by PCGS.
Later after the show you find out CDN Bid is $400 and the PCGS price guide shows a market value of $850. Auction data (PCGS coin facts) shows a range of 450-700.
So in failing to do your homework (not even looking it up in CW Trends LOL) you bought a coin you really liked but way overpaid in terms of what you like to pay which is around bid. Certainly you feel the dealer had it aggressively priced! Would you just take it on the chin for failing to do your research which you could have easily done with a smart phone accessing PCGS coin facts?
Would you go back to the dealer's table at the show the next day and ask to return the coin? What if the dealer, showing no sympathy for your mistake said "All sight seen sales are final."
Later after the show you find out CDN Bid is $400 and the PCGS price guide shows a market value of $850. Auction data (PCGS coin facts) shows a range of 450-700.
So in failing to do your homework (not even looking it up in CW Trends LOL) you bought a coin you really liked but way overpaid in terms of what you like to pay which is around bid. Certainly you feel the dealer had it aggressively priced! Would you just take it on the chin for failing to do your research which you could have easily done with a smart phone accessing PCGS coin facts?
Would you go back to the dealer's table at the show the next day and ask to return the coin? What if the dealer, showing no sympathy for your mistake said "All sight seen sales are final."
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Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>Dealers don't get a "return privilege". >>
Agree. I have not bought a coin at a show in several years without checking Heritage archives or, more recently, CoinFacts.
If your going to be a dealer there is no excuse for not doing your own homework especially in this age of technology where all you had to do was look it up on your smartphone.
Just because you like someone is not a reason to drop your guard and not research the purchase especially if something big ticket.
In the course of coin dealing there have been a couple of buying mistakes from other dealers at a show or deals I regretted later on but nothing that substantial. I never took it back to the seller for return or resale. I know of one instance where a buyer took it back for return and the seller said "Ok, I will refund it this time but don't ever come back to my table, and that is forever."
You don't want to burn bridges as it can come back to haunt you.
<< <i>Yes - if this happened to me I would take it on the chin. >>
There just isn't any other alternative.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>Dealers don't get a "return privilege". >>
This.
<< <i>Dealers don't get a "return privilege". >>
I agree with this and it is in stark contrast to how another thread on another board has played out recently.
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<< <i>Dealers don't get a "return privilege". >>
It's not just dealers but even as a collector once you've left the close vicinity of a dealers table the deal is done.
<< <i>A customer of mine bought a coin at a recent show from a dealer he has bought a good amount from. The dealer quoted a price. Client went to think. Cam back and said he would buy. Dealer wrote invoice, took check. Now the dealer keeps calling for the coin back since he priced it wrong. He is acting like he is due the coin back. He wont be getting it back and his actions have cost him a customer, a good one.
We all make mistakes and just have to work through them. >>
Wait a minute - this to me is apples and oranges, unless I misunderstood the OP's question.
My reading of the first post was that the dealer priced a coin intentionally at $X, a 2nd dealer bought it knowingly at $X, and then the 2nd dealer later realized it was a high price and wanted out. That's a done deal IMO.
But, if a dealer sells a 10K coin to someone, but accidentally writes 1K on the invoice, I do not think this is a done deal. I think it is a mistake that both should have known was a mistake at the time the deal was consummated. Not a done deal IMO.
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<< <i> you bought a coin you really liked >>
'nuff said
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In that situation, the Buying Dealer went back to the Selling Dealer to inquire about the seemingly high price. It turned out that the Selling Dealer had also bought the coin without looking at a price guide and took the coin back with the intention of seeking redress from the original selling dealer.
Even though there may not be a formal return privilege, I think that a lot of dealers and collectors will make exceptions for a relationship that they value and that is expected to bear significant fruit in the future.
Of course, it probably also depended on how the Buying Dealer approached the Selling Dealer - one usually catches a lot more flies with sugar than with vinegar.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Dealers don't get a "return privilege". >>
It's not just dealers but even as a collector once you've left the close vicinity of a dealers table the deal is done. >>
As a Collector That's the type of dealer you never go back too!
<< <i>
<< <i>A customer of mine bought a coin at a recent show from a dealer he has bought a good amount from. The dealer quoted a price. Client went to think. Cam back and said he would buy. Dealer wrote invoice, took check. Now the dealer keeps calling for the coin back since he priced it wrong. He is acting like he is due the coin back. He wont be getting it back and his actions have cost him a customer, a good one.
We all make mistakes and just have to work through them. >>
Wait a minute - this to me is apples and oranges, unless I misunderstood the OP's question.
My reading of the first post was that the dealer priced a coin intentionally at $X, a 2nd dealer bought it knowingly at $X, and then the 2nd dealer later realized it was a high price and wanted out. That's a done deal IMO.
But, if a dealer sells a 10K coin to someone, but accidentally writes 1K on the invoice, I do not think this is a done deal. I think it is a mistake that both should have known was a mistake at the time the deal was consummated. Not a done deal IMO. >>
The dealer didn't misprice it, he misquoted it. Done deal IMO if the check was for the quoted amount. However if the quote was an obvious error such as quoting a $1,000 price for a $10K coin, that is one thing. Quoting $800 for a $1,000 coin is another story.
<< <i>But, if a dealer sells a 10K coin to someone, but accidentally writes 1K on the invoice, I do not think this is a done deal. >>
I think it's beyond cheesy to take advantage of someone else's error, whether it's a dealer, a collector or anything in between.
I also think if a poll were posted here, the majority would be okay with a dealer taking it in the shorts, but not a collector.
<< <i>Even though I agree with the no return privilege for dealers being the standard, it would really depend on the dealer and how much business I've done with them. I wouldn't want to ruin a relationship over a relatively small mistake if I really believed it to be a mistake and when I'm likely to make the same sort of mistake in the future... >>
I am with Illini on this one. It is absolutely true that there is no returns on a dealer to dealer transaction sight seen. However stuff happens and people make mistakes. If it is someone I have a good relationship with I will certainly let them out of the deal. Though another option is approaching the dealer and asking them how much they want to buy their way out of the deal. Many coins I sell wholesale I dont mind having back at a number. I think of a situation that I had earlier this year, it was a bullion deal but I had to use that approach. I sold someone 100 10 oz silver bars in the store. I called a supplier and covered the ounces, I had the bars in stock so no problem. Not more than 20 minutes later someone comes into the store with 1000 ounces of silver. DAMN. So I call up the supplier and ask them how much it would cost to buy out of the deal. They told me a number and I was like fine just send me a bill. I cancelled the deal but let them make a spread. An hour later I get a call from one of the senior traders telling me spot was the same so lets call it a wash and we owe them nothing.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's not just dealers but even as a collector once you've left the close vicinity of a dealers table the deal is done. >>
As a Collector That's the type of dealer you never go back too! >>
So collectors should be able to expect that they can shop a coin around and if they can't find a buyer, get their money back?
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<< <i>
<< <i>A customer of mine bought a coin at a recent show from a dealer he has bought a good amount from. The dealer quoted a price. Client went to think. Cam back and said he would buy. Dealer wrote invoice, took check. Now the dealer keeps calling for the coin back since he priced it wrong. He is acting like he is due the coin back. He wont be getting it back and his actions have cost him a customer, a good one.
We all make mistakes and just have to work through them. >>
Wait a minute - this to me is apples and oranges, unless I misunderstood the OP's question.
My reading of the first post was that the dealer priced a coin intentionally at $X, a 2nd dealer bought it knowingly at $X, and then the 2nd dealer later realized it was a high price and wanted out. That's a done deal IMO.
But, if a dealer sells a 10K coin to someone, but accidentally writes 1K on the invoice, I do not think this is a done deal. I think it is a mistake that both should have known was a mistake at the time the deal was consummated. Not a done deal IMO. >>
Dealer quoted, x wrote invoice for x, customer wrote check for x. Dealer paid more than x for the coin so he made a pricing mistake and wants coin back.
<< <i>Dealer quoted, x wrote invoice for x, customer wrote check for x. Dealer paid more than x for the coin so he made a pricing mistake and wants coin back. >>
That scenario is an apple - i.e. done deal.
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<< <i>If the dealer is one I buy from regularly, I would happily point out their mistake. >>
In this scenario, you would not know it was a mistake.
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Which are we talking about?
Lance.
<< <i>Well, as TomB alluded, this scenario was described on another discussion board.
In that situation, the Buying Dealer went back to the Selling Dealer to inquire about the seemingly high price. It turned out that the Selling Dealer had also bought the coin without looking at a price guide and took the coin back with the intention of seeking redress from the original selling dealer.
Even though there may not be a formal return privilege, I think that a lot of dealers and collectors will make exceptions for a relationship that they value and that is expected to bear significant fruit in the future.
Of course, it probably also depended on how the Buying Dealer approached the Selling Dealer - one usually catches a lot more flies with sugar than with vinegar. >>
Anybody who is an entomologist knows you catch a lot more gnats with vinegar than with sugar, despite the expression.
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<< <i>So, is the OP a legit post or one trying to play off the thread on the other board? If the latter, then it is missing a lot of detail and leading to some speculation which is not that cool (if it is meant to mimic that real situation) >>
What is not that cool is someone posting innuendo that questions the integrity of the OP. The thread ATS and the so-called"detail" to which you allude have no bearing on the issue raised by the OP, nor does anyone posting a thread based on one set of circumstances preclude others from posting threads based on another set of circumstances, similiar or otherwise.
CG
buy stuff i shouldn't (for the price i pay) more than i like to admit
then i remember one of the secrets to life, "let it go"
ah a good time for a buddha quote
"it is not what we carry with us but what we let go that defines who we are"
.
However, you might go back to the dealer sometime and say, "Hey, I paid pretty strong for this piece, can you cut me a deal on this other piece?"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's not just dealers but even as a collector once you've left the close vicinity of a dealers table the deal is done. >>
As a Collector That's the type of dealer you never go back too! >>
So collectors should be able to expect that they can shop a coin around and if they can't find a buyer, get their money back? >>
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's not just dealers but even as a collector once you've left the close vicinity of a dealers table the deal is done. >>
As a Collector That's the type of dealer you never go back too! >>
So collectors should be able to expect that they can shop a coin around and if they can't find a buyer, get their money back? >>
This exact thing happened to me a couple of years ago. A collector, who was starting to become a wannabe dealer, bought a coin. He asked to return it over a month later, and said he had changed his mind about it. I know for a fact he shopped it around and failed to sell it. I took it back, because I liked the coin. But, how could someone trying to start out in this business think that behavior is a good strategy? I see him at shows, and the first thing that pops into my head is he was dishonest with me. It is hard to change an impression like that.
merse
Dolan
<< <i>I actually like ColonelJessup's idea of asking for a reasonable buyback. That way, you lessen your blow, and the dealer still makes a profit. If he/she says no... well... at least you have your health!
That's a nice way of saying restocking fee.
<< <i>Pay $10k for a $1k coin vs $10k for an $8k coin...two completely different scenarios.
Which are we talking about?
Lance. >>
This. If a dealer was very busy and wrote up an invoice for a nice MS 65 Capped Bust Half for $1,100 instead of $11,000, I would inform him / her of the error. However, if the invoice was written up for, say, $9,000; it's my coin for $9,000. Done deal. The first case is clearly an error. The second is not.
Secondly, I always check Heritage archives before buying anything. There are a number of dealers who charge a premium for virtually everything in their case. Some of these are nice coins; others aren't. It is up to every coin buyer to get up to speed on this. Caveat emptor.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I actually like ColonelJessup's idea of asking for a reasonable buyback. That way, you lessen your blow, and the dealer still makes a profit. If he/she says no... well... at least you have your health!
That's a nice way of saying restocking fee. >>
No, it's a favor
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When I was dealer I once purchased a 1798 dime in F-VF raw from a well known dealer. I sold it to a client who shipped it to ANACS only find out that it was a counterfeit. When I REALLY looked at the piece was a 10X glass I saw the problem (uneven surfaces that could not happen on a genuine coin), but was one heck of a copy. It had gotten past some of the best people in the business. I took it back to the dealer, and he refunded my money. That dealer called the major auction house from which he had purchased it, and he was ultimately reimbursed.
I agree fully with the concept that once you made a wholesale deal, you have to live with it. But honest dealers don't want to be known for selling counterfeits. That is one area where they will back up what they sell to all customers, including the wholesale customers. The only except is if something is doubtful, and they call it as an "as is," final sale. Then you are on your own.