<< <i>I should clarify, that I don't consider these common bullion. I think they are similar to the three year "w" mint collector bullion coins.
Still a bullion set, with a slight kick. >>
These have ALWAYS been a scarcer coin to find in nice UNC.
I'm sick of hearing these cool hundred year old gold pieces being compaired to new first spouse gold junk. I see them at shows selling at bullion ALL the time.
If you dont recognize a truely scarce gold coin priced at bullion with the opertunity to get a nice UNC coin that has never been messed with, then dont buy them. You dont understand.
I see posts about dipped coins, doctored coins etc etc etc....how many opportunities do you get to buy a coin that has been in a time capsule since they were minted a hundred years ago, untouched?
....the people compairing these coins to modern mint products dont get it - and should continue with what they are buying.
I wouldn't get too concerned about folks talking these down or others defending them. Heck, it's personal preference for what one wants to place into a collection or it's a business decision regarding risk vs. reward. Unlike some, I think these have a stunningly handsome design and have always admired them, so it was quite a pleasant surprise to be able to buy so many at 15% over melt. Put another way, they sold at approximately the same troy ounce price as any coin produced specifically for collectors or investors and sold by the US or Canadian mints today. I like them, and if they appear to be MS63 or better then they are winners across the board.
<< <i>I should clarify, that I don't consider these common bullion. I think they are similar to the three year "w" mint collector bullion coins.
Still a bullion set, with a slight kick. >>
These have ALWAYS been a scarcer coin to find in nice UNC.
I'm sick of hearing these cool hundred year old gold pieces being compaired to new first spouse gold junk. I see them at shows selling at bullion ALL the time.
If you dont recognize a truely scarce gold coin priced at bullion with the opertunity to get a nice UNC coin that has never been messed with, then dont buy them. You dont understand.
I see posts about dipped coins, doctored coins etc etc etc....how many opportunities do you get to buy a coin that has been in a time capsule since they were minted a hundred years ago, untouched?
....the people compairing these coins to modern mint products dont get it - and should continue with what they are buying. >>
Your passion is great, but I wonder WHY you really care what others say/think? If you got what you wanted (I didn't get to the $5 ones in time, nor the $10 1912 before it sold out), then why care about others? I like naturally toned SAEs but I know some folks don't like any toning and/or don't like SAEs. I couldn't care less about them. They can just move on and I will do the same. They collect what they like, I collect what I like.
Years ago, people didn't like certain morgan dollars...now some of those same ones are worth a ton. No reason to just slam back on people for their comments.
Stick around, read a lot of posts, and you will learn who has valid opinions and who just likes to stir the pot when they post and their opinions are worth less than a current zincoln...run over in the muddy, gravelly, parking lost by 100 cars a day for a solid year......no reason to let them get to you.
Thought those were gone last weeK? Able to get one today?
<< <i>Also here are some best estimates of release from another board: >>
We need those "????" filled in for he "Melt" column!!!!!!
As opposed to others that think the 1914 $10 is DOA.......I take the opposite opinion. My belief is that most of the 1914 $10's were (stored) in the hoard, and apart from the 14,959 being sold - the rest will be melted.
I would love to find out the melt numbers by date and denom. That 1914 $10 could become as scarce as the 31k issue 1914 $5.
Of course, the 1914 $5 was an absolute no-brainer buy with the super low mintage of 31k coins.
**Naturally, those who missed the sale or learned about it too late to get in - at least you can appreciate a truly rare coin being offered at a small premium over melt and attempted to buy in.
**Those who just dont like foreign, absolutely dont buy. You have to like and appreciate what you are going to own.
**Those who argue its merits as a rare opportunity to acquire a rare coin at slightly over melt, do some more "studying" because you called it all wrong.
<< <i>I wouldn't get too concerned about folks talking these down or others defending them. Heck, it's personal preference for what one wants to place into a collection or it's a business decision regarding risk vs. reward. Unlike some, I think these have a stunningly handsome design and have always admired them, so it was quite a pleasant surprise to be able to buy so many at 15% over melt. Put another way, they sold at approximately the same troy ounce price as any coin produced specifically for collectors or investors and sold by the US or Canadian mints today. I like them, and if they appear to be MS63 or better then they are winners across the board. >>
Thank you Sir! My sentiments exactly...
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
As opposed to others that think the 1914 $10 is DOA.......I take the opposite opinion. My belief is that most of the 1914 $10's were (stored) in the hoard, and apart from the 14,959 being sold - the rest will be melted.
I would love to find out the melt numbers by date and denom. That 1914 $10 could become as scarce as the 31k issue 1914 $5.
The pricing listed in the Krause reference books tend to agree with your assessment.
Jim, I couldn't get the link to work, or I'd have linked it for ya.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Got the pictures to open and my expectations have been lowered. None of the $10 look better than 60/61 to me, note even the premiums. The premium $5's seem a bit nicer and I do realize the pics are huge. I expect nice fresh luster coins that are low grade unc. I'm still in but I would rethink the $10 premium if I ordered one.
<< <i>Got the pictures to open and my expectations have been lowered. None of the $10 look better than 60/61 to me, note even the premiums. The premium $5's seem a bit nicer and I do realize the pics are huge. I expect nice fresh luster coins that are low grade unc. I'm still in but I would rethink the $10 premium if I ordered one. >>
This is why they are bullion.
If you want high quality a low mintage stick to the lovely ladies the US mint offers.
<< <i>Got the pictures to open and my expectations have been lowered. None of the $10 look better than 60/61 to me, note even the premiums >>
Gentlemen......why must you make any judgements on grading of these coins before you have them in hand?
Once customers begin to receive them, then we can post pics and all argue about grades - until then, I wouldnt accept any pic on the internet as representative of the coins in the hoard.
<< <i>This is why they are bullion. >>
Ahhh....the gold slug lover strikes again. Just remember your comments when you sell those ladies at 95% of spot.
I'd buy this "bullion" any day of the week when offered.
<< <i>Got the pictures to open and my expectations have been lowered. None of the $10 look better than 60/61 to me, note even the premiums >>
Gentlemen......why must you make any judgements on grading of these coins before you have them in hand?
Once customers begin to receive them, then we can post pics and all argue about grades - until then, I wouldnt accept any pic on the internet as representative of the coins in the hoard.
<< <i>This is why they are bullion. >>
Ahhh....the gold slug lover strikes again. Just remember your comments when you sell those ladies at 95% of spot.
I'd buy this "bullion" any day of the week when offered. >>
Since when has there been firm grading opinions based on images??? One of the first things always said, and known pretty well by now, is you can't grade a coin by an image alone. Now, they can be??? I agree with 7over8...wait till they show up, then GTG...he!!, I'll be happy as a clam if my '13 $5 grades at MS63 or 64
Canada $5 Gold Coins Date ....... Mintage ....Certified Pop ......MS65 or Higher 1912........165,860 ....1,223..................16 1913........98,832 ........1,060.................1 1914........31,122.........430 ...................0
Canada $10 Gold Coins Date ....... Mintage...Certified Pop.....MS65 or Higher 1912 ........74,759.....479 ......................13 1913 ........149,232.....430 .....................1 1914 ........140,068.....483 ....................1
Now let's add this to the earlier numbers-
So we get-
Canada $5 Gold Coins Date ........Pop + Released 1912.........2749 1913 .........3081 1914 .........2644
Canada $10 Gold Coins Date ........Pop + Released 1912 .........2749 1913 .........8244 1914 .........15,432
Looks like they evened out the $5's and the 1912 $10 has a low number along with them but the 13 and 14 $10's have more than enough coins by comparison. No wonder no sell-out and speculators probably are seeing two DOA coins except for the few that grade very high.
<< <i>No wonder no sell-out and speculators probably are seeing two DOA coins except for the few that grade very high. >>
Your comparison lacks one vital piece of info - "net mintage" or "total coins" released. This is why you cant make a educated assessment on any of the issues being DOA.
Even though you used grading service pop's as a surrogate for actual coins available, it shouldnt be used as such.
Price wise, the rarest coin in mid to high level unc is the 1914 $10 - out of all the $10's......why? Because the 1914 $10 is very scarce in the marketplace as compared to the others. We know the mintage indicates otherwise, and the pop's say it's just as available as the others, but price tells us otherwise.
All indications point to a very high melt of the mintages of 1914 $10's.....I wouldnt be surprised if over 100,000 1914 $10's were melted in the scheduled melt. May people are trying to get detailed numbers on which coins will be melted to hopefully revise mintages.
Only then will we be able to determine which coins will be the most sought after of the bunch.
BTW - my opinion is that you will do just fine owning any of the hand-selected coins. At such a small premium over melt your risk is very low.
According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
7/8 those numbers are an attempt to get what will be available in the marketplace once these thousands of coins are added to it. Remember prior to this sale these Bank Of Canada held coins were out of the marketplace, they are now returning and it will affect availability.
After this release I would hardly call the 1914 $10 coin "scarce", there are many other raw coins not in the pops obviously and yes some of the pops may contain coins that were submitted more than once but we have to assume it is the same for all the coins so it evens out. After the release the 14 $10 will be plentiful, and if you notice in the number of hand select vs. Premium coins they are releasing 3845 14 $10 premium coins, that is more than the total releases of the $5's and the 12 $10 alone!
What I posted shows the 14 $10 is in all likelihood DOA except for the few highest graded coins. Now the 13 $10 is more interesting as there are fewer premium coins released in that group, only 1024. Since there are not a lot of high grade 13 $10's in the pops (only one coin) the coins in this group that grade high should do better than the 14's. If someone was betting on what is left the premium 13 $10's might be best but even at that you take a lot of risk as it is still a very high number released relative to the $5's and the 12.
Halfstrike, what you aren't giving much weight is the number of coins already extant. I question how much grading of Canadian coins has really ever been done compared to the number of coins that are still out there as ungraded stock.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Again - a few of us have pointed out that your analysis lacks the scarcity of the 1914 $10 in the marketplace today. Just providing populations of coins graded does not always indicate how scarce a coin is.
The market price on the issue shows that it is genuinely more scarce in the market than the 1912 or 1913. Just because this release will introduce more 1914's into the market than the 1912 or 1913 doesnt mean that the 1914 will be more plentiful in the market as a whole.......because you have no idea of how many 1912's or 1913's are actually out there prior to this release.
If we find out how many of the coins to be melted are 1912's, 13's and 14's.........and we confirm that most of the 1914 mintage will be melted - then we will have actual net mintages..... and how many coins of each date are available in the market.
Until then, you are only licking your finger and raising it in the wind.......no evidence to support your DOA claims.
Theory One - The majority of the 1914 $10 were placed in storage. Even though thousands will be be released , tens of thousands (100k?) will be melted creating the new low mintage key for the short series. This date has always been tough to find and establishing it as the key will increase demand even more.
Theory Two -Many thousands more of the 1914 than the 12/13 will be released in mint state flooding the market and lowering demand.
Theory two will certainly be true for the short term and theory one may prevail in the long run as the coins are distributed among collectors. Anyone that lucks out with a 62/63 or better should be fine either way. Nice toning would be an extra bonus.
I went with two hand selected 1914 figuring that's my best chance to get a really nice mint state coin without paying the premium price. I also think it will be cool to get a couple coins that absolutely ,positively have never been dipped or otherwise messed with.
Someone posted they had 450 bags of coins in storage, 76 circulated bags and 374 uncirculated bags. The 76 circulated bags were probably mostly 1912 coins so that amount is all straight to the melting pot.
<< <i>According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation? >>
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this?
<< <i>According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation? >>
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this? >>
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this?
That's what the historical account on the Canadian Mint's website said, and that seems consistant with how countries paid for war materials, with gold.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation? >>
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this? >>
There was an arrangement for Canada to mint these coins to pay the US for British war needs. The US sold Britain plenty of materiel for WWI and needed to be paid in hard money (gold standard at the time). Since these coins were intended for the US, they were minted in .900 fine gold instead of the .917 fine gold used for Sovereigns.
With Germany sinking many ships in the Atlantic, it became too risky for Britain to send its own gold to the US for payment. So Canada minted them where they could be transported over land to the US. Canada and Britain would settle up with each other later.
Excerpts from a post by a coin dealer on Canadian coin message board Coincommunity.com " I have seen these coins..very very nice..fasten your seat belts..374 bags of untouched coins that show very little signs of abuse..Only the best are being released....these coins were only moved twice in 100 years"
No reference to if this was one of the melties, hand picked or premium. One would think that they would take one of the top pieces to show off in a video like this though... This one is pretty baggy, IMO.
<< <i>According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation? >>
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this? >>
There was an arrangement for Canada to mint these coins to pay the US for British war needs. The US sold Britain plenty of materiel for WWI and needed to be paid in hard money (gold standard at the time). Since these coins were intended for the US, they were minted in .900 fine gold instead of the .917 fine gold used for Sovereigns.
With Germany sinking many ships in the Atlantic, it became too risky for Britain to send its own gold to the US for payment. So Canada minted them where they could be transported over land to the US. Canada and Britain would settle up with each other later. >>
So what did the US do with the coins that they received? Melt or retain somewhere in a US vault? The coins that were put into circulation, what's the story about them? Would be nice to have a more complete history of the coins.
Comments
<< <i>I should clarify, that I don't consider these common bullion. I think they are similar to the three year "w" mint collector bullion coins.
Still a bullion set, with a slight kick. >>
These have ALWAYS been a scarcer coin to find in nice UNC.
I'm sick of hearing these cool hundred year old gold pieces being compaired to new first spouse gold junk. I see them at shows selling at bullion ALL the time.
If you dont recognize a truely scarce gold coin priced at bullion with the opertunity to get a nice UNC coin that has never been messed with, then dont buy them. You dont understand.
I see posts about dipped coins, doctored coins etc etc etc....how many opportunities do you get to buy a coin that has been in a time capsule since they were minted a hundred years ago, untouched?
....the people compairing these coins to modern mint products dont get it - and should continue with what they are buying.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Also here are some best estimates of release from another board:
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
<< <i>
<< <i>I should clarify, that I don't consider these common bullion. I think they are similar to the three year "w" mint collector bullion coins.
Still a bullion set, with a slight kick. >>
These have ALWAYS been a scarcer coin to find in nice UNC.
I'm sick of hearing these cool hundred year old gold pieces being compaired to new first spouse gold junk. I see them at shows selling at bullion ALL the time.
If you dont recognize a truely scarce gold coin priced at bullion with the opertunity to get a nice UNC coin that has never been messed with, then dont buy them. You dont understand.
I see posts about dipped coins, doctored coins etc etc etc....how many opportunities do you get to buy a coin that has been in a time capsule since they were minted a hundred years ago, untouched?
....the people compairing these coins to modern mint products dont get it - and should continue with what they are buying. >>
Your passion is great, but I wonder WHY you really care what others say/think? If you got what you wanted (I didn't get to the $5 ones in time, nor the $10 1912 before it sold out), then why care about others?
I like naturally toned SAEs but I know some folks don't like any toning and/or don't like SAEs. I couldn't care less about them. They can just move on and I will do the same. They collect what they like, I collect what I like.
Years ago, people didn't like certain morgan dollars...now some of those same ones are worth a ton. No reason to just slam back on people for their comments.
Stick around, read a lot of posts, and you will learn who has valid opinions and who just likes to stir the pot when they post and their opinions are worth less than a current zincoln...run over in the muddy, gravelly, parking lost by 100 cars a day for a solid year......no reason to let them get to you.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Just ordered the 6 coin set for $12,000. >>
Thought those were gone last weeK? Able to get one today?
<< <i>Also here are some best estimates of release from another board: >>
We need those "????" filled in for he "Melt" column!!!!!!
As opposed to others that think the 1914 $10 is DOA.......I take the opposite opinion. My belief is that most of the 1914 $10's were (stored) in the hoard, and apart from the 14,959 being sold - the rest will be melted.
I would love to find out the melt numbers by date and denom. That 1914 $10 could become as scarce as the 31k issue 1914 $5.
Of course, the 1914 $5 was an absolute no-brainer buy with the super low mintage of 31k coins.
**Naturally, those who missed the sale or learned about it too late to get in - at least you can appreciate a truly rare coin being offered at a small premium over melt and attempted to buy in.
**Those who just dont like foreign, absolutely dont buy. You have to like and appreciate what you are going to own.
**Those who argue its merits as a rare opportunity to acquire a rare coin at slightly over melt, do some more "studying" because you called it all wrong.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just ordered the 6 coin set for $12,000. >>
Thought those were gone last weeK? Able to get one today? >>
I was on a wait list. They filled 2 orders today from the wait list, I was one of them.
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
<< <i>I wouldn't get too concerned about folks talking these down or others defending them. Heck, it's personal preference for what one wants to place into a collection or it's a business decision regarding risk vs. reward. Unlike some, I think these have a stunningly handsome design and have always admired them, so it was quite a pleasant surprise to be able to buy so many at 15% over melt. Put another way, they sold at approximately the same troy ounce price as any coin produced specifically for collectors or investors and sold by the US or Canadian mints today. I like them, and if they appear to be MS63 or better then they are winners across the board. >>
Thank you Sir! My sentiments exactly...
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
ftp://communications:RCM2007@ftp.mint.ca/1912-14 Cdn Gold Coins/Photos/
What do you think each level on average would grade?
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
I would love to find out the melt numbers by date and denom. That 1914 $10 could become as scarce as the 31k issue 1914 $5.
The pricing listed in the Krause reference books tend to agree with your assessment.
Jim, I couldn't get the link to work, or I'd have linked it for ya.
I knew it would happen.
or you can paste it into the run or search box on windows computers to open the ftp folder.
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
<< <i>This may only work in Firefox. You need to paste this entire address ftp://communications:RCM2007@ftp.mint.ca/1912-14 Cdn Gold Coins/Photos
or you can paste it into the run or search box on windows computers to open the ftp folder. >>
Thank you. Coins are a little rough.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Wow. Ultra high resolution photos available comparing the 3 different quality coins from each year and each denomination.
ftp://communications:RCM2007@ftp.mint.ca/1912-14 Cdn Gold Coins/Photos/
What do you think each level on average would grade? >>
linkified
He who knows he has enough is rich.
<< <i>Got the pictures to open and my expectations have been lowered. None of the $10 look better than 60/61 to me, note even the premiums. The premium $5's seem a bit nicer and I do realize the pics are huge. I expect nice fresh luster coins that are low grade unc. I'm still in but I would rethink the $10 premium if I ordered one. >>
This is why they are bullion.
If you want high quality a low mintage stick to the lovely ladies the US mint offers.
<< <i>Got the pictures to open and my expectations have been lowered. None of the $10 look better than 60/61 to me, note even the premiums >>
Gentlemen......why must you make any judgements on grading of these coins before you have them in hand?
Once customers begin to receive them, then we can post pics and all argue about grades - until then, I wouldnt accept any pic on the internet as representative of the coins in the hoard.
<< <i>This is why they are bullion. >>
Ahhh....the gold slug lover strikes again. Just remember your comments when you sell those ladies at 95% of spot.
I'd buy this "bullion" any day of the week when offered.
<< <i>
<< <i>Got the pictures to open and my expectations have been lowered. None of the $10 look better than 60/61 to me, note even the premiums >>
Gentlemen......why must you make any judgements on grading of these coins before you have them in hand?
Once customers begin to receive them, then we can post pics and all argue about grades - until then, I wouldnt accept any pic on the internet as representative of the coins in the hoard.
<< <i>This is why they are bullion. >>
Ahhh....the gold slug lover strikes again. Just remember your comments when you sell those ladies at 95% of spot.
I'd buy this "bullion" any day of the week when offered. >>
Since when has there been firm grading opinions based on images??? One of the first things always said, and known pretty well by now, is you can't grade a coin by an image alone. Now, they can be??? I agree with 7over8...wait till they show up, then GTG...he!!, I'll be happy as a clam if my '13 $5 grades at MS63 or 64
they were all across the grading scale - some where hacked up fuglies, others were sweet toned beauties.
wait till you get your coin - I think there will be a wide variety of grades received.....kind of a lottery of sorts.....
but you will never be "hurt" in these coins at such a small premium over melt. They have alot of potential.
Taken from mintnewsblog-
Canada $5 Gold Coins
Date ....... Mintage ....Certified Pop ......MS65 or Higher
1912........165,860 ....1,223..................16
1913........98,832 ........1,060.................1
1914........31,122.........430 ...................0
Canada $10 Gold Coins
Date ....... Mintage...Certified Pop.....MS65 or Higher
1912 ........74,759.....479 ......................13
1913 ........149,232.....430 .....................1
1914 ........140,068.....483 ....................1
Now let's add this to the earlier numbers-
So we get-
Canada $5 Gold Coins
Date ........Pop + Released
1912.........2749
1913 .........3081
1914 .........2644
Canada $10 Gold Coins
Date ........Pop + Released
1912 .........2749
1913 .........8244
1914 .........15,432
Looks like they evened out the $5's and the 1912 $10 has a low number along with them but the 13 and 14 $10's have more than enough coins by comparison. No wonder no sell-out and speculators probably are seeing two DOA coins except for the few that grade very high.
<< <i>No wonder no sell-out and speculators probably are seeing two DOA coins except for the few that grade very high. >>
Your comparison lacks one vital piece of info - "net mintage" or "total coins" released. This is why you cant make a educated assessment on any of the issues being DOA.
Even though you used grading service pop's as a surrogate for actual coins available, it shouldnt be used as such.
Price wise, the rarest coin in mid to high level unc is the 1914 $10 - out of all the $10's......why? Because the 1914 $10 is very scarce in the marketplace as compared to the others. We know the mintage indicates otherwise, and the pop's say it's just as available as the others, but price tells us otherwise.
All indications point to a very high melt of the mintages of 1914 $10's.....I wouldnt be surprised if over 100,000 1914 $10's were melted in the scheduled melt. May people are trying to get detailed numbers on which coins will be melted to hopefully revise mintages.
Only then will we be able to determine which coins will be the most sought after of the bunch.
BTW - my opinion is that you will do just fine owning any of the hand-selected coins. At such a small premium over melt your risk is very low.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation?
I knew it would happen.
After this release I would hardly call the 1914 $10 coin "scarce", there are many other raw coins not in the pops obviously and yes some of the pops may contain coins that were submitted more than once but we have to assume it is the same for all the coins so it evens out. After the release the 14 $10 will be plentiful, and if you notice in the number of hand select vs. Premium coins they are releasing 3845 14 $10 premium coins, that is more than the total releases of the $5's and the 12 $10 alone!
What I posted shows the 14 $10 is in all likelihood DOA except for the few highest graded coins. Now the 13 $10 is more interesting as there are fewer premium coins released in that group, only 1024. Since there are not a lot of high grade 13 $10's in the pops (only one coin) the coins in this group that grade high should do better than the 14's. If someone was betting on what is left the premium 13 $10's might be best but even at that you take a lot of risk as it is still a very high number released relative to the $5's and the 12.
drfish here is the source for that article
mintnewsblog
those numbers came from PCGS and NGC, not Canada.
I knew it would happen.
Again - a few of us have pointed out that your analysis lacks the scarcity of the 1914 $10 in the marketplace today. Just providing populations of coins graded does not always indicate how scarce a coin is.
The market price on the issue shows that it is genuinely more scarce in the market than the 1912 or 1913. Just because this release will introduce more 1914's into the market than the 1912 or 1913 doesnt mean that the 1914 will be more plentiful in the market as a whole.......because you have no idea of how many 1912's or 1913's are actually out there prior to this release.
If we find out how many of the coins to be melted are 1912's, 13's and 14's.........and we confirm that most of the 1914 mintage will be melted - then we will have actual net mintages..... and how many coins of each date are available in the market.
Until then, you are only licking your finger and raising it in the wind.......no evidence to support your DOA claims.
7/8
Total number of coins released------ 30,000
That's half my friend.
Theory Two -Many thousands more of the 1914 than the 12/13 will be released in mint state flooding the market and lowering demand.
Theory two will certainly be true for the short term and theory one may prevail in the long run as the coins are distributed among collectors. Anyone that lucks out with a 62/63 or better should be fine either way. Nice toning would be an extra bonus.
I went with two hand selected 1914 figuring that's my best chance to get a really nice mint state coin without paying the premium price. I also think it will be cool to get a couple coins that absolutely ,positively have never been dipped or otherwise messed with.
<< <i>I think it will be cool to get a couple coins that absolutely ,positively have never been dipped or otherwise messed with. >>
I had not thought of it that way. Pristine is cool.
<< <i>According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation?
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this?
<< <i>
<< <i>According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation?
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this? >>
I'd imagine so.
That's what the historical account on the Canadian Mint's website said, and that seems consistant with how countries paid for war materials, with gold.
I knew it would happen.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>
<< <i>According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation?
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this? >>
There was an arrangement for Canada to mint these coins to pay the US for British war needs. The US sold Britain plenty of materiel for WWI and needed to be paid in hard money (gold standard at the time). Since these coins were intended for the US, they were minted in .900 fine gold instead of the .917 fine gold used for Sovereigns.
With Germany sinking many ships in the Atlantic, it became too risky for Britain to send its own gold to the US for payment. So Canada minted them where they could be transported over land to the US. Canada and Britain would settle up with each other later.
Thanks for the great info here.
No reference to if this was one of the melties, hand picked or premium. One would think that they would take one of the top pieces to show off in a video like this though... This one is pretty baggy, IMO.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>According to the Mint's historical account, these coins were minted to help finance the war, and the ones that ended up in the vault were simply left overs. It seems to me that most of the earlier dates would have been the first ones out the door (to finance the war purchases), and it seems likely to me that when most of the purchases of war materials were being made BEFORE the 1914 coins even existed.
Thus, it seems sorta likely that most of the coins being melted are the 1914s that got minted and were never shipped out. If that's true, and if the price guides are any indication of the rarity already, the melt will work in favor of the 1914 coins.
Don'cha just love speculation?
It's not clear to me what is meant by "to help finance the war". Does this imply they paid (or intended to pay) for material with these coins? Any ideas on this? >>
There was an arrangement for Canada to mint these coins to pay the US for British war needs. The US sold Britain plenty of materiel for WWI and needed to be paid in hard money (gold standard at the time). Since these coins were intended for the US, they were minted in .900 fine gold instead of the .917 fine gold used for Sovereigns.
With Germany sinking many ships in the Atlantic, it became too risky for Britain to send its own gold to the US for payment. So Canada minted them where they could be transported over land to the US. Canada and Britain would settle up with each other later. >>
So what did the US do with the coins that they received? Melt or retain somewhere in a US vault? The coins that were put into circulation, what's the story about them? Would be nice to have a more complete history of the coins.