1912 - 1914 Canada $5 & $10 Hoard Being Sold!

Check it out-

http://www.mint.ca/store/product/1912.jsp?campaignName=war1912&pId=1200006&lang=en_CA

"" Most of the coins would never reach the hands of Canadians; instead, they would be entrusted to the secure vaults of Canadian banks, the Department of Finance and, eventually, the Bank of Canada. The coins remained in cloth bags in the Bank of Canada's vaults for more than 75 years, fading from memory into the veiled treasuries of history – until now.""
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Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 22,932 ✭✭✭✭
    Holy Bleep, Batman! That's the Royal Canadian Mint selling 1912-1914 $5 & $10 gold coins!

    A complete set of six for only $12,000 Canadian!

    Linky, eh?
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.--Ben Franklin
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭
    In before the cries "wrong forum!"

    By the way, these 1912-1914 Candian gold $5 and $10 coins were minted with the same specifications as the US $5 and $10 coins of the time period. 8.36g and 16.72g of 90% gold, respectively.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Prodcuts & Collections
  • KaelasdadKaelasdad Posts: 1,242 ✭✭
    Imagine if the USMINT did this ......yummm
  • Remind anyone of the GSA morgans?
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 6,527 ✭✭✭
    Very cool - thanks for posting.

    Successful BST transactions with 126 members. Most recent: sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, Nolawyer, BAJJERFAN, Valenti151, GotTheBug, okiedude, jhdfla, LRCTom, amwldcoin, ajaan, Raybo
  • BrolBrol Posts: 266 ✭✭
    I'm still waiting for 1895 business strike Morgans to be found in Government vault image
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 14,043 ✭✭✭✭
    There must have been very few "premium" 1912 $10s. The other 5 coins bought as singles (if some weren't sold out) would be $6125. A "non-premium" set of 6 is a rather reasonable $4500.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 20,582 ✭✭✭✭
    I want some for First Strike!
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • tydyetydye Posts: 4,138
    Wow! That is cool! If I had 12K to blow I would pick up a set
  • You could buy singles!
  • Thanks for posting this, I just purchased a 1913 $5 gold piece for $500 and a 1914 $10 gold piece for $1,000 hopefully the cheaper ones are at least nice AU coins. You know I just love silver and gold...silver and gold...
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 14,043 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I want some for First Strike! >>


    image POTD! Is there vanity label guidance for these yet?
  • RealoneRealone Posts: 17,511 ✭✭
    2 questions:
    are they being sold at melt with all the fees etc
    how many were found in the bank hoard?
    'Never give in, never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy'.
    FYI: I only collect naturally toned coins with original surfaces and nothing else, trust me nothing else!
    OK with one exception!
  • """"Approximately 245,000 King George V $5 and $10 gold coins dated 1912, 1913 or 1914 are currently held in the Exchange Fund Account (EFA), controlled by the Minister of Finance. To liquidate these physical assets and convert them into high credit quality, marketable fixed income securities, 30,000 of these coins were hand-selected for sale as high-quality treasures of Canada's numismatic past. The remaining coins bearing imperfections from handling or environmental conditions will be melted and refined into pure gold by the Mint, which will convert them into a tradable, liquid asset.

    The following coins are being made available to the public:

    Premium Hand-Selected 6-Coin Set (140 sets - $12,000 each)
    Premium Hand-Selected 1912, 1913 and 1914 $5 single gold coins (291 coins - $875 each)
    Premium Hand-Selected 1913 and 1914 $10 single gold coins (4,869 coins - $1,750 each)
    Hand-Selected 1912, 1913 and 1914 $5 single gold coins (5,050 coins - $500 each)
    Hand-Selected 1912, 1913 and 1914 $10 single gold coins (18,950 coins - $1,000 each)
    These exclusive collectibles are being offered in Premium Hand-Selected and Hand-Selected categories to provide flexible pricing options while delivering the high product quality our customers expect.""""
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Remind anyone of the GSA morgans? >>



    Yes it does!
    Ed
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 20,582 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To liquidate these physical assets and convert them into high credit quality, marketable fixed income securities, >>



    now THAT is funny.


    post that on the Precious Metals forum and everyone will be laughing.
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions


  • << <i>2 questions:
    are they being sold at melt with all the fees etc
    how many were found in the bank hoard? >>



    I didn't see anything on their site indicating how many were found but only around 350,000 $10 gold pieces were minted total and just under 300,000 $5 gold pieces were minted so much less supply of Canadian gold coins than U.S.
    I find the design of them attractive and usually never see any for sale at the shows I attend plus the price isn't much above melt so rather than purchase a 1/2 or 1/4 oz. maple or eagle I would rather own something interesting with a little history behind it.

    Thanks candy mustang for the info.
  • Here are the pictures of the selection process - the coins are from original mint state bags:

    http://www.mycanadiancoins.com/selection_process.html
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,784 ✭✭
    << To liquidate these physical assets and convert them into high credit quality, marketable fixed income securities, >>

    That's strange. I'd think a 100 year old coin from a mint bag even if it's imperfect is pretty marketable. I doubt they get more money from making them into new bullion coins and eating the melt loss.
    Ed
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Here are the pictures of the selection process - the coins are from original mint state bags:

    http://www.mycanadiancoins.com/selection_process.html >>

    Super-low-power glass and blue latex gloves? Really?
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • I had to go out for work last night and missed the 1914 $5...wasn't in the cart when I got back. Customer service said they didn't have any available. The boutiques, according to a guy who seemed at best half knowledgeable, should have them in mid-January but that you couldn't place an order over the phone. (I mean who wouldn't want to make a road trip to Winnipeg in January?) So, if anyone has an extra or decides to cancel, please let me know! I might even throw in a bit more to you for your generosity ;-)
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 14,043 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Super-low-power glass and blue latex gloves? Really? >>


    Why not? Are you saying this is overkill or that they should be using higher magnification? Unless they have an experienced collector or dealer doing the sorting, any closer scrutiny would just be precision without accuracy. A somewhat experienced collector or dealer could sort the coins into the best and the rest without magnification fairly quickly.

    I wonder if they're going to sell the bags and the tags.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 22,932 ✭✭✭✭
    The "hand-selected" coins have "minimal evidence of wear." Does that mean they are circulated?

    Does it say anywhere that even the "premium hand-selected" coins are at least minimally "Uncirculated?"
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.--Ben Franklin
  • 2ndCharter2ndCharter Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭
    Guaranteed to appear soon in FleaBay listings as "RARE!"
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭
    Too bad I don't collect Canadian gold ... this sounds pretty neat.

    Yeah ... Canadian GSA sales! image
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces


  • << <i>

    << <i>Here are the pictures of the selection process - the coins are from original mint state bags:

    http://www.mycanadiancoins.com/selection_process.html >>

    Super-low-power glass and blue latex gloves? Really? >>



    I had the same reaction, but these are just staged press photos I'm assuming.

    I love these coins. I remember when I was a kid glancing through my 1993 Charlton catalogue and wishing I could get one... or better yet find a whole bunch of them.

    One does wonder what affect the hoard will have on the prices of these coins. I'm going to wait and see.
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭
    Well, I too love gold. I also like "old".
    I jumped in for one of the regular hand selected $5.
    They only have the 1913 still available as the 1912 and 1914 are sold out.
    Somewhat pricey for bullion gold but I rationalize that my often gazing at it in hand will bring me satisfaction.
    Best.
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
  • HalfStrikeHalfStrike Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭
    Looks they are releasing a lot less $5's then $10's, this is a no brainer I think.
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭
    Peeps selling these in PCGS mint state holders are asking a nice premium. I think I'll wait and hope they bring the much rarer, and less understood, Sovereigns to market.
  • HalfStrikeHalfStrike Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭
    Looks like the 1914 $5 could be the winner.
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭
    I will always wonder how many government hoards that are found, were actually minted last month rather than 100+ years ago....
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I will always wonder how many government hoards that are found, were actually minted last month rather than 100+ years ago.... >>



    Probaly zero!
    JMHO.
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
  • TomBTomB Posts: 14,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think this is a very cool offering that isn't priced to the moon. These "Hand-Selected" $5 gold coins have the same gold purity and content as classic US gold and modern US $5 gold commems, yet cost a few dollars less than what the US Mint is charging for their commems. They also cost, on a per troy ounce gold basis, essentially the same as the US Mint First Spouse coins. Personally, I have always adored the 1912-1914 Canadian $5 and $10 gold coins, yet have never owned any. In my opinion the design is well-balanced, ornate without being overbearing and fabulously executed. Even though they are not a US Mint product, I still feel a certain kinship or attachment to them since they are Canadian. These Canadian issues are also limited in timeframe enough so that most who buy gold could attempt to put a complete set together without sinking too much money into them, which may keep demand a little higher than if they were part of a 50 or 100 piece set that few could hope to assemble. Overall, I think this is a reasonable premium to pay for such a cool event and for wonderful coinage that is supported by the price of gold.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 14,680 ✭✭✭✭
    Yep ... like the GSA sale of Morgan and Peace Dollars.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • KoveKove Posts: 1,517 ✭✭
    I tried to order the $12k big kahuna yesterday, but it had sold out a few hours before. image
    That's an impressive sellout for that expensive of a product.

    I agree with TomB, this is a very cool, reasonably-priced offering that will only happen one time.
  • HalfStrikeHalfStrike Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭
    Somebody messed up the email-

    All sales are final for this product. We will not allow any returns or exchanges.

    Please note: If you are not completely satisfied with your purchase, simply return it to us in its original packaging within 30 days, and we will gladly replace it. If the product is sold out, you will receive a full refund. Also note, that it is the customer's responsibility to pay any duties or taxes for any goods shipped to an international address. Any shipping charges for packages returned to us as a result of a customer's failure to pay customs, duties and taxes will be billed to that customer.

  • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭
    Just ordered one of the $5's. The checkout wouldn't take my card (said my AMEX wasn't an AMEX). Called and was told alot are no longer available by phone, only on the internet. The CS rep was sooo niice, she got her supervisor to 'pull' one for a phone sale, gave them the CC #, went right through. Boy, the U.S. Mint should send there CS people up north for a week to learn what customer service is...they were just terrific. Also was told, these are flying 'off the shelves', but the shipping date is 'by 12/28' ...no biggie for one of these.
    I'll come up with something.
  • RealoneRealone Posts: 17,511 ✭✭
    So I am trying logically to figure out if this is afterall a sound deal.

    We are to buy sight unseen, based on a description.
    They say all sales are final, but now someone posted and said it can be returned, but does anyone really want to return to another country.
    Are we buying based on projected description of condition or for melt value or just like any other bullion.
    Can we trust the mintage numbers of another country.
    Are we buying because we think they will have additional numismatic value and that it will be a value added investment.
    Are we buying the $5 for instance because the numbers are so small that it sounds like a no brainer.

    Anyway help me out here i am trying to figure out if I should be a darkside coin because it is 100 years old but I don't want to pay extra for the 100 year old reason or for its unc condition.
    thanks
    'Never give in, never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy'.
    FYI: I only collect naturally toned coins with original surfaces and nothing else, trust me nothing else!
    OK with one exception!
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow! That is cool! If I had 12K to blow I would pick up a set >>

    omg so wouldnt i.
  • AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭
    $5 coins just sold out. Had one in my checkout and it poofed before I paid.

    $10 still available. Pretty cool item, couldn't pass one up.
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS


  • << <i>So I am trying logically to figure out if this is afterall a sound deal. >>



    So while you were trying to figure out why a 31,000 mintage 1914 CANADA $5 Gold, worth about $420 melt at yesterdays prices and selling for $500 is a good deal-----the rest of us bought them up.

    Did you see that these were original stored BU bags of coins?

    This was a no brainer. Absolute no brainer.

    By the way, there was approximately 5,000 $5 coins available in the hand selected category, which were already a better quality than the massive amount they have condemned to the melting pot. Apparently less than 300 were of Premium Hand Selected Quality.

    How many of each date? Who knows. But the 1914 $5 was a super rare coin before this and will still be a rare coin after this.


  • << <i>The "hand-selected" coins have "minimal evidence of wear." Does that mean they are circulated? >>



    None were circulated. They were all uncirculated. They refer to a coin that may have more bag abrasions or rub from being stored - but no wear.

    Honestly - IMO - the Hand selected was definitely the better value.

    If you all remember the GSA Morgan sales, and the CC dollars that were put into holders NOT MARKED UNCIRCULATED - they were every bit UNC. This is very similar to the way the RCM is describing these coins. I would think they may have some toning, a few more bagmarks, but UNC.
  • HalfStrikeHalfStrike Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭
    Realone take a look at these, they look like quality pieces-

    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
  • Should I or shouldn't I?
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • AngryTurtleAngryTurtle Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭
    They are going quick. The 1912 $10 sold out when one was in my cart. It dissapeared before I could get to checkout. image
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 17,979 ✭✭✭
    I bit. They look like really nice coins. I can't wait!!
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>So I am trying logically to figure out if this is afterall a sound deal. >>



    So while you were trying to figure out why a 31,000 mintage 1914 CANADA $5 Gold, worth about $420 melt at yesterdays prices and selling for $500 is a good deal-----the rest of us bought them up.

    Did you see that these were original stored BU bags of coins?

    This was a no brainer. Absolute no brainer.

    By the way, there was approximately 5,000 $5 coins available in the hand selected category, which were already a better quality than the massive amount they have condemned to the melting pot. Apparently less than 300 were of Premium Hand Selected Quality.

    How many of each date? Who knows. But the 1914 $5 was a super rare coin before this and will still be a rare coin after this. >>



    I found this looking for mintages......

    Mintages are as follows:
    1912 165,680
    1913 98,832
    1914 31,122

    It's strange...when I ordered, the '13 was the only one available. Same site with the mintages added this info, as to why the '14 is the lowest:

    "This very solid and regal series of Canadian coins was first provided for by legislation in 1908, but it was not until 1911 that designs were approved. The mintages of all dates are quite small. Mintage was suspended in 1914 because of wartime restrictions governing the flow of gold, thus 1914 is the scarcest date in the series. The coin shows the profile of King George V and an emblem of the old Canadian coat of arms with maple boughs surrounding it on the reverse."
    I'll come up with something.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 22,932 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>""""Approximately 245,000 King George V $5 and $10 gold coins dated 1912, 1913 or 1914 are currently held in the Exchange Fund Account (EFA), controlled by the Minister of Finance. To liquidate these physical assets and convert them into high credit quality, marketable fixed income securities, 30,000 of these coins were hand-selected for sale as high-quality treasures of Canada's numismatic past. The remaining coins bearing imperfections from handling or environmental conditions will be melted and refined into pure gold by the Mint, which will convert them into a tradable, liquid asset.

    The following coins are being made available to the public:

    Premium Hand-Selected 6-Coin Set (140 sets - $12,000 each)
    Premium Hand-Selected 1912, 1913 and 1914 $5 single gold coins (291 coins - $875 each)
    Premium Hand-Selected 1913 and 1914 $10 single gold coins (4,869 coins - $1,750 each)
    Hand-Selected 1912, 1913 and 1914 $5 single gold coins (5,050 coins - $500 each)
    Hand-Selected 1912, 1913 and 1914 $10 single gold coins (18,950 coins - $1,000 each)
    These exclusive collectibles are being offered in Premium Hand-Selected and Hand-Selected categories to provide flexible pricing options while delivering the high product quality our customers expect."""" >>



    So, they offered 30,000 pieces out of 245,000 being held. What will happen to the other 215,000 coins?
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.--Ben Franklin
  • The other 215,000 coins will be melted - they already have the contract.

    "....while less visually appealing examples will be refined into 99.99% pure gold to liquidate the balance of the coin holdings."

    http://www.mint.ca/store/news/a-national-treasure-resurfaces-as-the-royal-canadian-mint-offers-rare-opportunity-to-own-canadas-first-gold-coins-crafted-with-pride-from-19121914-17400003?cat=News+releases&nId=700002&parentnId=600004&nodeGroup=About+the+Mint


    With 659,693 total minted of all dates of the $5 and $10's (1912-1914 $5's + 1912-1914 $10's).......215,000 coins being melted....

    That is 32.59% of the total population on these coins are being officially melted.

    The Royal Canadian Mint should officially revise the mintage vigures on these coins, given that the 215,000 of the original - unissued coins are being melted officially.



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