Other than that - just a change according to the times and collecting focus - there is still a lot of good information being passed along, it's just mixed in with the fluff
I find it better especially possibly bc some of those banned. It has had some interesting discussions. I don’t believe it sb a place where somebody trashes mods (many collect those) or less expensive material. Different individuals collect different things many can only afford so much per item. At shows - it has been a learning opportunity. One dealer doing a booming business at a recent show: 6 world coins for a dollar.
Some threads I find interesting some don’t. Be familiar w the rules and use common sense.
I think the issue with the forum mirrors numismatics in general. One prominent person in the business I know recently retired. Another told me that it's not as much fun, or profitable as in the past. Both of them told me that margins are getting squeezed.
As a collector, I need only a few coins to complete my type set. They rarely become available, and are expensive for me. I used to find many attractive, for me, mid priced coins available at the major show I attend. That is not the case any longer.
Fewer dealers are going to shows now, due to more business being conducted on the internet. I'm old school, in that I need to see a coin before I buy it. Yes, I know many dealers have fair return privileges, but unless it's a dealer that I know and trust, I just don't want to open a package and hope it meets my standards; you don't know what a coin actually looks like until you see it yourself.
I observe at shows that an increasing amount of attention is directed to collectors with deep pockets, a group in which I am not a member.
There has been a general drop in value of almost all coins minted after the middle of the 19th century, extreme rarities excepted. I couldn't afford those coins back in the day, and I can't afford them now. For example, a specific Liberty Nickel in a grade I collected had a market value of $14K in December 2014; its market value was $6K when I saw it in September of 2016. I stopped collecting the series when I saw this.
Another issue which I think Brett is trying to address, is changing grading standards over the decades. It is disheartening to me when I see the same coins in the same grade, which were graded at different points in time, where some are clearly nicer than others.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
One wonders to what degree dealers are buried in steeply depressed coin inventory. It is difficult to sell a coin for $1000 that was acquired at $1500 and absorb show and travel fees as well.
When i entered the business I recall the Heritage 2005 FUN show which as I recalled 10,000 US coin lots. Heritage said the goal was a hundred million dollars in realized sales. I not only had a consignment, but bought several coins as well.
Checked in a moment ago and there are only 3,900 lots in this year's sale. The sizzle is gone from the market outside of whatever Mr. Hansen is buying or $65 silver proofs than bring Moon money.
No knock on Heritage of course, they have been a good business partner for several years, but how do you encourage consignments when valuations are in the tank? I think that many collectors, investors figure that it is better to hang on to the coins and hope for a rebound. Nobody is anxious to go backwards when liquidating a collection.
did everyone expect that we'd be up, up, up forever??? the way the coin market moved from 1999-2012 was exciting to be sure but everything evens out in the end.
As far as I know, many of these banned members had been given at least a second chance. Apparently, some did not feel that they had to live by the forum rules.
@Boosibri said:
Lots of banned members in this post. I always wonder what they did to earn their fate especially when reading their insightful and coherent posts.
Well, when I was here before years ago during the first wave of banning, it was because many of the people were trashing our hosts. Basically bad behavior by many. There was a sense that people could say what they want. I remember one person who went on a personal campaign about PCGS not recognizing a Norweb provenance. That went on for a long time and was the source of a lot of venting.
Unless they are paid being a mod is a thankless job. I was a mod for years at military.com. It sucked. Everybody hanging on the cross that the mods were out to get them....got an idea...don’t be an ass and the mods will leave you be.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
As to the number of lots in the FUN auction 2005 vrs now, Heritage's minimum lot value has gone up quite a bit since then. It will be interesting to see if those 3900 lots exceed 100 million.
One wonders to what degree dealers are buried in steeply depressed coin inventory. It is difficult to sell a coin for $1000 that was acquired at $1500 and absorb show and travel fees as well.
When i entered the business I recall the Heritage 2005 FUN show which as I recalled 10,000 US coin lots. Heritage said the goal was a hundred million dollars in realized sales. I not only had a consignment, but bought several coins as well.
Checked in a moment ago and there are only 3,900 lots in this year's sale. The sizzle is gone from the market outside of whatever Mr. Hansen is buying or $65 silver proofs than bring Moon money.
No knock on Heritage of course, they have been a good business partner for several years, but how do you encourage consignments when valuations are in the tank? I think that many collectors, investors figure that it is better to hang on to the coins and hope for a rebound. Nobody is anxious to go backwards when liquidating a collection.
Nothing like bumping an eight year old thread about the imminent demise of this Forum. Rumors of its death continue to be greatly exaggerated.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
@TurtleCat said:
Like the stock market, there are seasons to buy and seasons to sell. It’s a good time to buy from what I’m hearing.
That's what the stamp collectors said for 20 years...and then they realized that prices were never going back up.
Doesn't mean it isn't a good time to buy. But it's a good time to buy relative to 10 years ago because prices are cheaper. Whether it's a good time to buy relative to 5 years from now depends on whether the bottom is in or we're still sliding.
@seanq said:
Nothing like bumping an eight year old thread about the imminent demise of this Forum. Rumors of its death continue to be greatly exaggerated.
Sean Reynolds
He needs something to do while he's waiting for eBay to go bankrupt.
@Boosibri said:
Lots of banned members in this post. I always wonder what they did to earn their fate especially when reading their insightful and coherent posts.
Keep it up with those type of questions and you'll be next buster!
@Boosibri said:
Lots of banned members in this post. I always wonder what they did to earn their fate especially when reading their insightful and coherent posts.
Keep it up with those type of questions and you'll be next buster!
If you phrase criticism in the form of a question it is harder to nail you down. One of my tricks at home with the wife but she is way smarter than I am.... Worked much better on the first wife...err maybe in retrospect it didn't.
@Elcontador said:
There has been a general drop in value of almost all coins minted after the middle of the 19th century, extreme rarities excepted. I couldn't afford those coins back in the day, and I can't afford them now. For example, a specific Liberty Nickel in a grade I collected had a market value of $14K in December 2014; its market value was $6K when I saw it in September of 2016. I stopped collecting the series when I saw this.
If the posting volume has actually declined, I'd rate this the number one reason. The NGC forum was very active when I joined but is now a dead zone. Some have attributed it to other reasons, but I think this is the main one. The same thing happened on the South African coin forum too about a year after the price peak in 2012. Never as active as US forums but posting activity has collapsed.
Most buyers (not always primarily collectors) don't like losing money and my primary explanation for it is because they don't actually like collecting or what they collect enough to treat it mostly or substantially as a consumption expense. Some take a break but others quit for good.
If the falling price level is the primary root cause, I expect it to continue indefinitely, as I concurrently expect the coins you described to mostly lose value, with intermittent counter trend rallies. I expect most others to lose value as well, maybe including those I own now.
Nothing like bumping an eight year old thread about the imminent demise of this Forum. Rumors of its death continue to be greatly exaggerated.
For real ... I joined 16 years ago and at that time there was a great deal of "it ain't what it used to be ..." but here we all are. Some things never change. We're coin collectors. Here's a coin.
@thebigeng said:
I wonder if the old time dealers like Max Mel and the like ever had these kinds of conversations about the coin market etc.... I'll bet they did.
Doubt it. The market was undeniably growing in the early part of the 20th century.
I lost my job Oct 10th and have been busy with Netflix relaxation and a few Job interviews. I want to stay in the collectible space but those jobs are limited. In meanwhile, we had Christmas Hanukkah and rebuilding resume and rebuild my computer that was wiped clean and destroyed URR. No worry I was able to get back most Board minutes and other critical data for my other businesses 😉I will have to work soon so will hit the Jobs market hard post Fun show. I will try to participate more soon.
In short life got in my way. But no worry will try to post more soon
Comments
Too much fluff
Too much sarcasm at times
Too many personal attacks
its about the coins!
Other than that - just a change according to the times and collecting focus - there is still a lot of good information being passed along, it's just mixed in with the fluff
I find it better especially possibly bc some of those banned. It has had some interesting discussions. I don’t believe it sb a place where somebody trashes mods (many collect those) or less expensive material. Different individuals collect different things many can only afford so much per item. At shows - it has been a learning opportunity. One dealer doing a booming business at a recent show: 6 world coins for a dollar.
Some threads I find interesting some don’t. Be familiar w the rules and use common sense.
This is still my favorite place to hang out. It still is the greatest coin forum around as far as I’m concerned. That won’t change.
I may have posted here all of a half dozen times in the last 12 months. Social media sites are way more attractive.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Where is that "disagree" button when I need it?
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
Well glad to have you back.
I think the issue with the forum mirrors numismatics in general. One prominent person in the business I know recently retired. Another told me that it's not as much fun, or profitable as in the past. Both of them told me that margins are getting squeezed.
As a collector, I need only a few coins to complete my type set. They rarely become available, and are expensive for me. I used to find many attractive, for me, mid priced coins available at the major show I attend. That is not the case any longer.
Fewer dealers are going to shows now, due to more business being conducted on the internet. I'm old school, in that I need to see a coin before I buy it. Yes, I know many dealers have fair return privileges, but unless it's a dealer that I know and trust, I just don't want to open a package and hope it meets my standards; you don't know what a coin actually looks like until you see it yourself.
I observe at shows that an increasing amount of attention is directed to collectors with deep pockets, a group in which I am not a member.
There has been a general drop in value of almost all coins minted after the middle of the 19th century, extreme rarities excepted. I couldn't afford those coins back in the day, and I can't afford them now. For example, a specific Liberty Nickel in a grade I collected had a market value of $14K in December 2014; its market value was $6K when I saw it in September of 2016. I stopped collecting the series when I saw this.
Another issue which I think Brett is trying to address, is changing grading standards over the decades. It is disheartening to me when I see the same coins in the same grade, which were graded at different points in time, where some are clearly nicer than others.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Very good post, Elcontador.
One wonders to what degree dealers are buried in steeply depressed coin inventory. It is difficult to sell a coin for $1000 that was acquired at $1500 and absorb show and travel fees as well.
When i entered the business I recall the Heritage 2005 FUN show which as I recalled 10,000 US coin lots. Heritage said the goal was a hundred million dollars in realized sales. I not only had a consignment, but bought several coins as well.
Checked in a moment ago and there are only 3,900 lots in this year's sale. The sizzle is gone from the market outside of whatever Mr. Hansen is buying or $65 silver proofs than bring Moon money.
No knock on Heritage of course, they have been a good business partner for several years, but how do you encourage consignments when valuations are in the tank? I think that many collectors, investors figure that it is better to hang on to the coins and hope for a rebound. Nobody is anxious to go backwards when liquidating a collection.
So that’s where you’ve been! I’ve been missing your posts here. Which social media sites do you use for coins?
By tomorrow, every forth post will be glicker commenting on one of his previous posts. Might even hit that ratio by midnight.
When you're allegedly in the coin business & you're digging up 8yr old threads, that is the definition of...THINGS HAVE SLOWED DOWN.
did everyone expect that we'd be up, up, up forever??? the way the coin market moved from 1999-2012 was exciting to be sure but everything evens out in the end.
Like the stock market, there are seasons to buy and seasons to sell. It’s a good time to buy from what I’m hearing.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Lots of banned members in this post. I always wonder what they did to earn their fate especially when reading their insightful and coherent posts.
Latin American Collection
As far as I know, many of these banned members had been given at least a second chance. Apparently, some did not feel that they had to live by the forum rules.
Well, when I was here before years ago during the first wave of banning, it was because many of the people were trashing our hosts. Basically bad behavior by many. There was a sense that people could say what they want. I remember one person who went on a personal campaign about PCGS not recognizing a Norweb provenance. That went on for a long time and was the source of a lot of venting.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I count 24 new posts since this got resuscitated, that were not mine.
Seems to be some life in the topic.
Now add something constructive and you can be #25.
I blame it all on the health conscious younger generation and their lack of alcohol consumption.
A few liquored up old guys can carry 100 posts easy.
I posted my thoughts and the post got deleted - Wow, I'll skip dinner and go to my room now.
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
aaahhh an angle I hadn't considered.
Reason #2
Mods deleting liquored up old guy posts.
The more things change the more they remain the same...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Unless they are paid being a mod is a thankless job. I was a mod for years at military.com. It sucked. Everybody hanging on the cross that the mods were out to get them....got an idea...don’t be an ass and the mods will leave you be.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
As to the number of lots in the FUN auction 2005 vrs now, Heritage's minimum lot value has gone up quite a bit since then. It will be interesting to see if those 3900 lots exceed 100 million.
Nothing like bumping an eight year old thread about the imminent demise of this Forum. Rumors of its death continue to be greatly exaggerated.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
That's what the stamp collectors said for 20 years...and then they realized that prices were never going back up.
Doesn't mean it isn't a good time to buy. But it's a good time to buy relative to 10 years ago because prices are cheaper. Whether it's a good time to buy relative to 5 years from now depends on whether the bottom is in or we're still sliding.
He needs something to do while he's waiting for eBay to go bankrupt.
It is down a bit today in an up market.
Keep it up with those type of questions and you'll be next buster!
siliconvalleycoins.com
If you phrase criticism in the form of a question it is harder to nail you down. One of my tricks at home with the wife but she is way smarter than I am.... Worked much better on the first wife...err maybe in retrospect it didn't.
Latin American Collection
If the posting volume has actually declined, I'd rate this the number one reason. The NGC forum was very active when I joined but is now a dead zone. Some have attributed it to other reasons, but I think this is the main one. The same thing happened on the South African coin forum too about a year after the price peak in 2012. Never as active as US forums but posting activity has collapsed.
Most buyers (not always primarily collectors) don't like losing money and my primary explanation for it is because they don't actually like collecting or what they collect enough to treat it mostly or substantially as a consumption expense. Some take a break but others quit for good.
If the falling price level is the primary root cause, I expect it to continue indefinitely, as I concurrently expect the coins you described to mostly lose value, with intermittent counter trend rallies. I expect most others to lose value as well, maybe including those I own now.
For real ... I joined 16 years ago and at that time there was a great deal of "it ain't what it used to be ..." but here we all are. Some things never change. We're coin collectors. Here's a coin.
I wonder if the old time dealers like Max Mel and the like ever had these kinds of conversations about the coin market etc.... I'll bet they did.
The issue is not that the market is down. The issue (as always) is whether the market will come back up.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Some of us will be adding to our collections and posting here regardless.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Doubt it. The market was undeniably growing in the early part of the 20th century.
I lost my job Oct 10th and have been busy with Netflix relaxation and a few Job interviews. I want to stay in the collectible space but those jobs are limited. In meanwhile, we had Christmas Hanukkah and rebuilding resume and rebuild my computer that was wiped clean and destroyed URR. No worry I was able to get back most Board minutes and other critical data for my other businesses 😉I will have to work soon so will hit the Jobs market hard post Fun show. I will try to participate more soon.
In short life got in my way. But no worry will try to post more soon
Kathy
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I understand what your going thru. Been there - there is light at end of tunnel. Hang in there.